Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ.......

[Fook Seng]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

The fact is the WP has gone further than any other opposition party in
becoming an alternative government. Only thing is they are more modest about their own capability while others ain't.

 

[SDPhopelessParty]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...[/h]

Originally Posted by RafflesTiger

​

if you have family problem, please don't bring your family problem into this forum. ok?

 

[SDPhopelessParty]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

Not ready to form a government?

Vote opposition as an insurance?

Vote us not to form a government?

We are not even starting yet?

What kind of clown is this LTK?

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tell me! can the SDP CLOWN get into parliament? let along from the government.

 

[HTOLAS]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

The interviewer in this case is Jim Middleton, from ABC, I believe. To those in the media circles, he is quite an icon. But, of course, you are free to disagree with anything or everything I've written.

Is this CNN or BBC......

 

[elephanto]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

Raffles Tiger,

Do not subsume everything under ' You are free to agree to disagree etc etc'.

Strange you take Francis Seow seriously.

Financially & amorously questionable, this chap has no heart for the people other than his quasi-intellectual flowery fantasy of being persecuted by dictatorship.

How he views Low & how the international community view Low is inconsequential to us singaporeans.

It's how we, the electorate view him that is the crux.

You can have all your preferred definition of what constitutes Genuine Opposition - the likes of DAP etc and winning international praise for his fiery attacks on PAP etc.

Our electorate have returned WP on a GRC ticket & more.

JBJ, Chee are all respected for their courage of conviction however not in sync with the local electorate's political values and preferences.

I agree totally with HoTlas' view that there is an insidious campaign since the fall of Aljunied GRC to destroy Low politically.

So anyone who has a grievance with him - the Eric Tans, Goh Meng Sengs etc, their criticisms will be echoed and magnified by assholes like kanina and demanding neutrals like nice-gook etc.

Low is not perfect.

His perceived 'softness' vis a vis PAP instead of hard hitting vitriol always attract certain criticisms in addition to the grudging compliments which PAP leaders occasionally pay him.

So all the fantasy talks of moles, double agents, on the take, cloak & daggers of how Sylvia Lim, Low, Chiam even Chee are PAP agents out to scheme and sellout democracy .... such incredulous suggestions can never be proved or dispoved to anyone's satisfaction.

Just as any cynic will swear every football game is manipulated by bookies and their almighty dough.

so, all are entitled to believe what they want to believe, dead sure with their own brand of logic & deduction.

Low is resilient in building up to critical mass an effective opposition first then alternative - hence the 1st world parliament tagline who is a little grandstanding to my liking.

In contrast, all other opposition leaders from Marshall to JBJ to Chiam to Chee to Low to Kenneth etc all are to be respected for standing up for what they believe but truth be told, effective action and results are not forthcoming and of course we know the level field is a fantasy still one need to be an overcomer not some cynical arm chair critic seeking refuge as some arty farty scholar in Harvard sounding like a political sage on the other side of the Pacific Ocean.

 

[jw5]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

So anyone who has a grievance with him - the Eric Tans, Goh Meng Sengs etc, their criticisms will be echoed and magnified by assholes like kanina and demanding neutrals like nice-gook etc.

That chap is not a "demanding neutral".
He has openly admitted to having a grudge against Low and/or Sylvia and he is hoping that it will give the impression
they have somehow wronged him unfairly.

 

[Cruxx]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

JBJ, Chee are all respected for their courage of conviction however not in sync with the local electorate's political values and preferences.

Which is why it doesn't matter if one is among the 60% or the 40%. Sinkies will always be bloody useless Sinkies

 

[scroobal]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

PAP has received judgements against 2 parties on 2 different occasions in the past but they did not pursue the matter. One was WP and the other was SDP. They could have easily bankrupted a few other people but did not chose to follow thru instead accepting apologies and getting them to paying legal costs.

It has nothing to do with moles, mice or cockroaches. If the PAP shuts down WP and SDP, there will be tremendous backlash against the PAP both locally and internationally. People would no longer even bother turning up for GE. That will finally revealed that it is an oppressive and autocratic govt who has been has been the case all this while.

LTK was never sued personally.

I have been watching this thread but I am surprised that many find it difficult to explain or understand what actually transpired. JBJ and Balakrishnan the treasurer wrote an article in Tamil commenting about the conduct of Tamil PAP ministers and MPs. So jayakumar and other Indian MPs sued. One must be hard-pressed to get the Chinese members of the WP CEC to cough for up for a bit of tamil adventurism displayed by JBJ and Balakrishnan, an article that they had never read nor could understand.

The PAP cannot get to LTK as he is overly cautious so much so that his effectiveness is blunted. But he makes up for it by taking seats away from the PAP in a slow but steady manner. He now has 4 strong people that the PAP is struggling to counter.

LTK like nearly all Nantah grads such a Sebastian have a very interesting past. During that era, one had to chose between the red or white team. They were both in the white team and have had to deal with handlers from our Intelligence side. There is much to this but some cannot walk away. LTK could and did. For instance, not many are aware that Francis Seow was old man's favourite hunting dog until the love disppeared. It was Francis Seow who prosecuted and successfully convicted Chia Thye Poh for Sedition.

I can personally vouch for Sylvia as I am aware of her background and her trials and tribulation tru out. The Ngee Ann incident was well calculated. The authorities played poker and lost. She went for broke. I am also awRe how that decision was made.

By the way Raffles Tiger has a interesting history which LeMan2011 is familiar with. Somehow he dropped his previous persona and not his nick and has been caught out. I would not waste my breath with this manipulative prick.

 

[elephanto]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

That chap is not a "demanding neutral".
He has openly admitted to having a grudge against Low and/or Sylvia and he is hoping that it will give the impression
they have somehow wronged him unfairly.

Thanks bro, not in here so often juz recently more... So not following too closely, juz err on safe side
seems i hv given him too much benefit of a doubt....

low is a disciplined politician and it is understandable nobody who have ego issues can tahan a disciplinarian

 

[cheowyonglee]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

PAP has received judgements against 2 parties on 2 different occasions in the past but they did not pursue the matter. One was WP and the other was SDP. They could have easily bankrupted a few other people but did not chose to follow thru instead accepting apologies and getting them to paying legal costs.

It has nothing to do with moles, mice or cockroaches. If the PAP shuts down WP and SDP, there will be tremendous backlash against the PAP both locally and internationally. People would no longer even bother turning up for GE. That will finally revealed that it is an oppressive and autocratic govt who has been has been the case all this while.

LTK was never sued personally.

I have been watching this thread but I am surprised that many find it difficult to explain or understand what actually transpired. JBJ and Balakrishnan the treasurer wrote an article in Tamil commenting about the conduct of Tamil PAP ministers and MPs. So jayakumar and other Indian MPs sued. One must be hard-pressed to get the Chinese members of the WP CEC to cough for up for a bit of tamil adventurism displayed by JBJ and Balakrishnan, an article that they had never read nor could understand.

The PAP cannot get to LTK as he is overly cautious so much so that his effectiveness is blunted. But he makes up for it by taking seats away from the PAP in a slow but steady manner. He now has 4 strong people that the PAP is struggling to counter.

LTK like nearly all Nantah grads such a Sebastian have a very interesting past. During that era, one had to chose between the red or white team. They were both in the white team and have had to deal with handlers from our Intelligence side. There is much to this but some cannot walk away. LTK could and did. For instance, not many are aware that Francis Seow was old man's favourite hunting dog until the love disppeared. It was Francis Seow who prosecuted and successfully convicted Chia Thye Poh for Sedition.

I can personally vouch for Sylvia as I am aware of her background and her trials and tribulation tru out. The Ngee Ann incident was well calculated. The authorities played poker and lost. She went for broke. I am also awRe how that decision was made.

By the way Raffles Tiger has a interesting history which LeMan2011 is familiar with. Somehow he dropped his previous persona and not his nick and has been caught out. I would not waste my breath with this manipulative prick.

heh thanks for the info.i think i have some idea whats going on.

well, all the while i thinking is sylvia lim the mole send by pap?
or mr low and mm lee got some internal agreement on support pap policy and i wont sue you.and why mr low so diam diam on pap issue.
or chen shou mao the pap mole?

knn, all these mole here and there, eric tan case, ysl saga really make us going blur like sotong.

heh do enlighten us here.i m sincere to hear more from you.i m a newbie in political thingy.

 

[eatshitndie]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

it's actually in the interest of the ruling inner circle to foster and cultivate the germination of a "credible", definitely sparrable opposition in order to prevent future gen leaders within (and without) the pap cadre to go into atrophy. political atrophy among the ruling elite is seen as a greater danger to sg's future and continuing success than the loss of seats in parliament. "sparrable" is defined as adequately sizable (token or small) in numbers or strength and offering quality competition without the risk of injury or death. pappie low lives and newbies are not clued in on this stratagem so they can bark all they want on cyberspace. nobody is stopping them. to do so will only expose the long term strategy. oppo low lives definitely have no clue. so they likewise can claim all kinds of conspiracy theories. that's all i have to say on the subject. sg is in great hands....uhhhh.... i mean the real hands behind the scene. ciao.

 

[cheowyonglee]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

it's actually in the interest of the ruling inner circle to foster and cultivate the germination of a "credible", definitely sparrable opposition in order to prevent future gen leaders within (and without) the pap cadre to go into atrophy. political atrophy among the ruling elite is seen as a greater danger to sg's future and continuing success than the loss of seats in parliament. "sparrable" is defined as adequately sizable (token or small) in numbers or strength and offering quality competition without the risk of injury or death. pappie low lives and newbies are not clued in on this stratagem so they can bark all they want on cyberspace. nobody is stopping them. to do so will only expose the long term strategy. oppo low lives definitely have no clue. so they likewise can claim all kinds of conspiracy theories. that's all i have to say on the subject. sg is in great hands....uhhhh.... i mean the real hands behind the scene. ciao.

wah...., i learn new thing again.

 

[wpwhistleblower]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

Why did PAP drop their petition to wind up WP? They could have kicked Low Thia Khiang out of Parliament? And why was Low so passive in raising funds to help JBJ? JBJ had to seek outside help to help him raise funds. JBJ ultimately went on to sue Low and WP to help him defray cost.

The answer is quite simple: if PAP were to wind up WP, Low would be pushed to a corner and fight for own life. He would raise fund aggressively to save himself, and JBJ as well. Low was left out of the picture so that he would be more than happy sitting on the fence watching JBJ being destroyed while he prepared to take over WP. There was some form of unspoken, unacknowledged Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact between Low Thia Khiang and PAP against JBJ.

Aiyah, Mr Golden Dragon Sir alreay confiremd Low Tia Kiang is PAP spy. You read downstoiars what i posting last time. Mr Golden Dragon Sir got confiremd it is corect.



"The PAP had been observing Low ever since he won his seat in the August 1991 general elections. The PAP knew of Low's "extracurricular activities" during his overseas "business" trips. It also reasoned that as a Chinese educated, Low would have limited influence over the English educated intelligentsia and electorate. In particular, the PAP saw no way in which Low, as a Chinese educated MP, would have any appeal to the significant 23% minority bloc. It knew of his ambitions and concluded that he was someone the PAP could not only make use off but work with when it became necessary for the PAP to provide a "release valve" for the electorate.

The PAP's lawsuit against Jeyaratnam after the 1997 general elections was a turning point.

In early March 1998, a PAP emissary, one of the Chinese educated MPs, was send to make contact with Low. Low was encouraged to seize the leadership of the WP. Low made racist jokes and references during the secret meeting about Jeyaratnam's "Indian" heritage and offered his view on how much easier it is for a "Chinese to work with a fellow Chinese". With the promised backing of the PAP, an emboldened Low then started his personal campaign to undermine and destabilise the leadership of Jeyaratnam.

The PAP emissary continued to quietly stay in touch with Low. In an April 2001 secret meeting, Low was "officially" chided for being "slow". Low was encouraged to seize the opportunity provided by Jeyaratnam's financial difficulties and to take over WP. Low was given the assurance that the PAP was prepared to and would be able to work with him. He was assured that the PAP would not pursue any further action against WP if he took over the leadership of the WP.

Despite these assurances, Low nevertheless realised that the best way forward for him was not to challenge Jeyaratnam directly. Jeyaratnam was an opposition giant and icon in the eyes of the electorate. Also, the cultural disposition of the Chinese majority and significant Malay voting bloc was that of showing deference to one's elders. Low knew his political career would be in trouble if he had launch a challenge against Jeyaratnam or contested Jeyaratnam for the leadership of the Workers' Party. Hence, he bidded his time. Egged on and aided by the PAP, Low continued with his personal campaign to destabilise and undermine JBJ's leadership by stealth."

 

[wpwhistleblower]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

Why did PAP drop their petition to wind up WP? They could have kicked Low Thia Khiang out of Parliament? And why was Low so passive in raising funds to help JBJ? JBJ had to seek outside help to help him raise funds. JBJ ultimately went on to sue Low and WP to help him defray cost.

The answer is quite simple: if PAP were to wind up WP, Low would be pushed to a corner and fight for own life. He would raise fund aggressively to save himself, and JBJ as well. Low was left out of the picture so that he would be more than happy sitting on the fence watching JBJ being destroyed while he prepared to take over WP. There was some form of unspoken, unacknowledged Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact between Low Thia Khiang and PAP against JBJ.

Yo got read downstors more okay.


"Questions have been raised within the PAP inner circle on the wisdom of appointing Low. Some felt that the carefully calibrated PAP treatment of and response towards Low was without its risk. To soften up Low for his envisaged role as a PAP insider, Lee had, in a parliamentary debate in November 1994, declared Low to be a "good MP" and "the only one worth listening to". However, a significant number within the PAP inner circle voiced their concerns that the signals intended for Low could well be misread. They feared it could result in more amongst the Singaporean intelligentsia stepping forward to challenge the PAP. This was a scenario that was unacceptable and anathema to the PAP. However, with the strongman's blessings of Low, they were powerless to do anything or to play political hardball with Low or to undermine him."

 

[wpwhistleblower]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

Dr Ong Chor Teck, why not use your old name Wayangparty?....LOL

Aiyah last tiem you all say I this doctore. now say this person also doctore. Eh, I tell you all wp poeple. Got more than oen poeple hate WP leh. No mean everyonbe hate wp is this doctor or is stupid or is PAP popele. I last tiem sapport wp. Now I got read Mr Golden DragoinS ir got confiremd (I very respect him) Low Tia Kiang is pap spy, i no sapport wp liow. I see WP sometime si worst than PAP. gotr wp poeple want to kill me becos I say no good ting about wp. WP is actually very worst than PAP. Kana sai lah you all wp poeple. Treaten popel want to kill me lah, call mee bastard lah. call otehr pople dog, minus poepel point. Tellign many lie on Internet. Everytign also say this doctore writing liek no one else can no like WP liek that. wp poeple here all like siow kau.

 

[wpwhistleblower]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

Aiyah Low got no fire in belly but got many many million $$$$$ in bank for beign good PAP spy. Now he waiting more MP pension, he can see doctor free, he can be like PAP poeple, live like PAP millionare even though he kay kay fight them. so I garantee he mouth glue. Never open. Wait he tok much, PAP kick him out an he no more money, no pension, no free see doctor. You all got no why he no tell pople where he lvie? Becos he paiseh. he bluf bluf talk help poor but his house very big, got use his million dollar MP allowance buy pay many million dollar, very verey expensive house. Al the poeple think vote Low Tia Kiang very good, got oppostion but eh no open his mouth. So they all lan lan. Very poor thing. He lvie big house, they still lan lan lvie in small flat. No upgrading becios they sapport this PAP spy.

me hold JBJ in utmost admiration as well. as for LTK, me is expecting a lil' more fire in the belly :p:p:p

 

[LeMans2011]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

YES..... This is what Francis Seow said.... THIS IS FACTUAL

What kind of intelligence level is that?

 

[LeMans2011]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

Aiyah Low got no fire in belly but got many many million $$$$$ in bank for beign good PAP spy. Now he waiting more MP pension, he can see doctor free, he can be like PAP poeple, live like PAP millionare even though he kay kay fight them. so I garantee he mouth glue. Never open. Wait he tok much, PAP kick him out an he no more money, no pension, no free see doctor. You all got no why he no tell pople where he lvie? Becos he paiseh. he bluf bluf talk help poor but his house very big, got use his million dollar MP allowance buy pay many million dollar, very verey expensive house. Al the poeple think vote Low Tia Kiang very good, got oppostion but eh no open his mouth. So they all lan lan. Very poor thing. He lvie big house, they still lan lan lvie in small flat. No upgrading becios they sapport this PAP spy.

Can you translate that to English?
By your logic, an opposition member must live in the most frugal manner - stay in HDB, ride a bicycle, eat packet-rice in coffeeshop.
An opposition member cannot be accomplished in his career... if he is... he must be PAP sponsored.
I recall someone was accusing Png Eng Huat of poor in doing business... i bet if he is a successful businessman the accuser would switch around saying "Png is loaded... hmmm... where did he get his money... how can he be rich when Sinkies are struggling in HDB flats"

By the way... people who live in HDB flat are not necessarily poor... i know of someone who has several properties in Orchard but live in a HDB flat in Tampines.

You ideology of what constitute an opposition is misguided - you are a communist at heart.

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Francis Seow specifically mentioned in his book that Low could have helped JBJ...

By your logic, an opposition member must live in the most frugal manner - stay in HDB, ride a bicycle, eat packet-rice in coffeeshop.
An opposition member cannot be accomplished in his career... if he is... he must be PAP sponsored.

ideology of what constitute an opposition is misguided - you are a communist at heart.

In matured democracy,the opposition can form the next government.It does.And so the rotation.

As far as LKY fiefdom is concerned,the opposition is destined to remain poor so long as PAP rules.If anyone is not aware of this than most likely not a Singaporea.Because LKY had said in uncertain terms.

“Please do not assume that you can change governments. Young people don’t understand this”
- Lee Kuan Yew on the results of the 2006 election

“I will make him crawl on his bended knees, and beg for mercy.”
- Lee Kuan Yew on J. B. Jeyaretnam, as reported by Devan Nair, 1981

“If I have to chose communism and anti-communism I will chose [sic] communism … if you hate something because you do not like some aspects of it, you can work yourself into a state where anything said and done by communists must be wrong and evil.”
- Lee Kuan Yew, quoted in “David Marshall’s Political Interlude” by Alex Josey (1982)

“Without the elected president and if there is a freak result, within two or three years, the army would have to come in and stop it”
- Lee Kuan Yew on what would happen if a profligate opposition government touched Singapore’s vast monetary reserves, Straits Times, Sept 16 2006

“There are some flaws in the assumptions made for democracy. It is assumed that all men and women are equal or should be equal. Hence, one-man-one-vote. But is equality realistic? If it is not, to insist on equality must lead to regression.”

“I am often accused of interfering in the private lives of citizens. Yes, if I did not, had I not done that, we wouldn’t be here today. And I say without the slightest remorse, that we wouldn’t be here, we would not have made economic progress, if we had not intervened on very personal matters – who your neighbour is, how you live, the noise you make, how you spit, or what language you use. We decide what is right. Never mind what the people think.”
- Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew, Straits Times, 20 April 1987
- Lee Kuan Yew, Create 21 Asahi Forum Tokyo, Nov 20 1992

 

[Fook Seng]

Can you translate that to English?
By your logic, an opposition member must live in the most frugal manner - stay in HDB, ride a bicycle, eat packet-rice in coffeeshop.
An opposition member cannot be accomplished in his career... if he is... he must be PAP sponsored.
I recall someone was accusing Png Eng Huat of poor in doing business... i bet if he is a successful businessman the accuser would switch around saying "Png is loaded... hmmm... where did he get his money... how can he be rich when Sinkies are struggling in HDB flats"

This is what I term Constrained Logic. The arguments are stringed to come out with the desired outcome. So it does not matter whether statements contradict one another. Also premises are self-declared, not from any recognised source as long as the desired outcomes suit the premises. This is the level of discourse here. Whistleblower and his Raffles Tiger sidekick are really very naughty fellas.