WP's idea of Transparency and Accountability

[wMulew]

 

[Alladin]

Should also post their "Co-driver" claims. Vote them in to slap themselves. Waste taxpayers' money.

 

[Forvendet]

As much distaste as I have for the YSL affairs, I think some of you are putting transparency and accountability in a misplaced context. All political parties are entitled to privacy and secrecy in their internal operation and process. The co-driver, check-and-balance, transparency and accountability issues are with the government. PAP need not disclose their party internal operation and process too. However, the government should be more transparent and accountable to the citizens. WP isn't trying to be co-driver in PAP internal matters. WP is trying to be co-driver in government matters. Dear people, please understand the constitutional structure. This is why PAP MPs stayed mummed out of it even though there maybe political points to be scored, there may be risks and potholes too.

 

[Varuna]

This is why PAP MPs stayed mummed out of it even though there maybe political points to be scored, there may be risks and potholes too.

If they over react and unknowingly incur the wrath of those who hold juicy info on where they hide the skeletons, it can backfire. They knew the power of the media and social networks could achieve the results they hoped to see without themselves having to do the dirty work and risk shedding bad light on their self-inflated characters and integrity.

 

[metalmickey]

OK wat. Yaw Shin Leong sacked as treasurer - and then dunno what else. Even though there is no transparency there is still accountability.

 

[HedgeTrader]

If they over react and unknowingly incur the wrath of those who hold juicy info on where they hide the skeletons, it can backfire. They knew the power of the media and social networks could achieve the results they hoped to see without themselves having to do the dirty work and risk shedding bad light on their self-inflated characters and integrity.

Wise view 火上添油 maybe 引火自焚 LOL

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Wise view 火上添油 maybe 引火自焚 LOL

Wise words. These describe Goh Meng Seng's plan and action all along. He may fool some of the people some of the time, but this time, he has fooled practically no one.

 

[wMulew]

As much distaste as I have for the YSL affairs, I think some of you are putting transparency and accountability in a misplaced context. All political parties are entitled to privacy and secrecy in their internal operation and process. The co-driver, check-and-balance, transparency and accountability issues are with the government. PAP need not disclose their party internal operation and process too. However, the government should be more transparent and accountable to the citizens. WP isn't trying to be co-driver in PAP internal matters. WP is trying to be co-driver in government matters. Dear people, please understand the constitutional structure. This is why PAP MPs stayed mummed out of it even though there maybe political points to be scored, there may be risks and potholes too.

The problem with this is that PAP always claim to be transparent and accountable even when it comes to internal party matters. The worst thing that can happen to YSL in this case was the Steve Tan debacle when just before the election, something stuck and Steve Tan immediately refute the claims and he withdrew from the elections. Which is a big contrast to YSL case. WP and YSL basically slap themselves in the face when they constantly demand PAP to be more open and accountable.

Yes, U are right this issue has nothing to do with national interest, nothing to do with whether WP can perform in their duties but it still hurt them as the are not practicing what they preach. When in similar incident PAP have shown to be more open and accountable, WP have failed. How then do you expect most pple to still believe them when they are unable to deliver when the least we expect of them was to at least be on the same level as PAP

The same also can be said of the Ministerial Salary issue, they made a big U-turn on their very on manifesto, they use a formula which they had not idea what it was and in principle ended up being almost no different then the EC formula and the most damning one which was to come up with an amt that was almost the same as the one that the PAP is accepting. Yet they when it comes to the vote they still voting against it. That's another slap in their own face. In real life we call these pple hypocrites.

The Yaw affair actually presented them with a good chance of redeeming themselves by simply having him come out and apologize or refute the claim yet they screw up something this simple.

 

[mesmerised]

Transparency...does it mean, every WP candidate must tell the truth about everything that is posed to them by netizens or the press? So, someone should ask Sylvia if she ever watched porn on the internet and stroked herself while watching it, she must come clean and confess? Afterall,she is a Catholic and its taboo to watch porn let alone 'self-fornicate'??...things are becoming ridiculous!

 

[Fook Seng]

I do not know which is worse. Not revealing private matters to the public if you are a public figure? Or the voyeurism of asking for all private matters to be exposed for public figures?

 

[wMulew]

I do not know which is worse. Not revealing private matters to the public if you are a public figure? Or the voyeurism of asking for all private matters to be exposed for public figures?

A lot of pple have come out shooting at the private lives of PAP family members. E.g. Yaacob's son nationality which is even more shameless then Yaw saga since Yaw is pretty much the instigator yet Yaacob's son is just an innocent victim. Yet in the said example, instead of cover up Yaacob stood out to clarify the matter in public. In a perfect world, we should not muddle in the private affairs of others, however we do not live in a perfect world and in similar situations, PAP members have stood out and accounted for their actions. How then can U expect others to take WP seriously when they demand transparency or accountability from PAP when in similar matters, PAP have been way more transparent and accountable then WP. WP loss the moral ground to demand the same of PAP on National issues

 

[Perspective]

A lot of pple have come out shooting at the private lives of PAP family members. E.g. Yaacob's son nationality which is even more shameless then Yaw saga since Yaw is pretty much the instigator yet Yaacob's son is just an innocent victim. Yet in the said example, instead of cover up Yaacob stood out to clarify the matter in public. In a perfect world, we should not muddle in the private affairs of others, however we do not live in a perfect world and in similar situations, PAP members have stood out and accounted for their actions. How then can U expect others to take WP seriously when they demand transparency or accountability from PAP when in similar matters, PAP have been way more transparent and accountable then WP. WP loss the moral ground to demand the same of PAP on National issues

May I ask that you answer for Shanmugan's affair, who was climbing up after that instead of down. I am asking you because the other forummers against Yaw so far, including the fat village insect, had established they no balls to do so.

 

[Balancemind]

May I ask that you answer for Shanmugan's affair, who was climbing up after that instead of down. I am asking you because the other forummers against Yaw so far, including the fat village insect, had established they no balls to do so.

After so many weeks of Yaw's saga though he may not have confirmed the alleged affairs and with recent action of WP has him to leave the CEC it is clear that he is as guilty as charged for that immoral behaviour of his. What I really failed to appreciate that many of his supporters are justifying his doing by bringing up Shanmugan's affair and trying hard to justifying the unfairness he has been receiving for his wanton behaviour. May I say if for one moment indeed if Shanmugan is guilty of his affairs so say you this does not mean those who are disgusted with such common immoral behaviour has to do the same to Shanmugan in harrasing him like what Yaw is now being harrased. It is exactly those that do not look kindly to the alleged affairs of Shanmugan that we feel where ruling party has failed big time on the moral issue aspect which old man would not have tolerated if he is in-charged. What we look for a new leadership in WP surely we do not expect them to have their members behaving in similar manner as alleged to have been committed by the ruling party for indeed if we do not show our disapproval of what Yaw has done now as an example for WP to take note of our expectation than with regret WP is no different to that of the ruling party where immorality of it's senior member is an acceptable norm within their party. If that's the case why should we be cheering WP on when both the parties are just as immoral as the other. To my mind if WP wants to be taken seriously then they should nip this immoral aspect of it's senior members in the bud before it eroded into the same class as the ruling party where upright conduct of it's members is non existence. This is what we want in WP as our alternative leaders to the encumbent? To be upright in it's moral and it's feeling for the welfare of the people. One aspect is just as important as the other.

What Yaw has been alleged to have done shows a deep flaw in his character. He seems to have quite a liking for married women in total disregard and respect to those innocent husbands whose wivies he has an affair with. Chinese society has never accept a Sze Mien Ching and has always expressed it's disgust with such character. I am sure if those women he has an affair with are available female I don't think he will be harrased to such a degree now but then he has queer taste in going after married women that's where the called for him to step down as MP for Hougang is all about. Do you really think it is fair for the people of Hougang to be represented by a Sze Mien Ching in Parliament no matter one will like to console themselves that so long as Yaw is able to discharge his duty as MP it is acceptable to allow Yaw to continue to be their MP? I for one think he should be replaced as soon as possible for this man has a dark side in him and to allow him to continue to be an MP of Hougang is not fair to the people of Hougang. It is therefore encumbent for LTK to do the right thing for the people of Hougang and the longer he drag his foot the faster he will be lossing his integrity as a leader of WP and one whom his present high status came about from the people of Hougang.

The two civil servants that are now under investigation for their corruption that they received in kind came about because of their high status. Is it wrong to draw a same inference to Yaw as well. He is an MP whose status is even higher that those two civil servants and there is a possibility of that high status of his that has overpowering effect on those unfortunate females of his affairs especially the married one. The New Paper reported the case of that PRC married woman that Yaw has an affair with as one that has been hired to assist him in preparing his speech in mandarin. Was there not a possibility that PRC woman have betrayed her husband to keep that business contract which Yaw need for his MP duties alive. To a certain extend there is some similarity here though it may not be on an all four basis. It's that high position that is needed to secure that contract that warrants that extra services that she has to provide which would not have came about if no additional services to the customer was not use to sweeten the deal.

As for that married party member that has said to be impregnated by Yaw one cannot rule out that the submissiveness on her part to Yaw and expectation of climbing up that party ladder was not induced by Yaw's senior position within the party and his status as an MP of Hougang. This is where the CEC has not forcus their mind on and indeed if they have Yaw would have been send packing and a bye-election in Hougang will come into effect. That should have been the right way to deal with this sad saga if WP wants to show to the people that they are serious in their claim of having proper accountability to the people which they are of the view it is lacking in the ruling party and that's where they should be considered by the people as the alternative the people are longing for. This saga put WP to a test of their claim of accountability to the people in it's moral and discharge of duty and it seems as of now they have failed big time on it's first limb of high standard of moral conduct as required of them.

 

[Perspective]

After so many weeks of Yaw's saga though he may not have confirmed the alleged affairs and with recent action of WP has him to leave the CEC it is clear that he is as guilty as charged for that immoral behaviour of his. What I really failed to appreciate that many of his supporters are justifying his doing by bringing up Shanmugan's affair and trying hard to justifying the unfairness he has been receiving for his wanton behaviour. May I say if for one moment indeed if Shanmugan is guilty of his affairs so say you this does not mean those who are disgusted with such common immoral behaviour has to do the same to Shanmugan in harrasing him like what Yaw is now being harrased. It is exactly those that do not look kindly to the alleged affairs of Shanmugan that we feel where ruling party has failed big time on the moral issue aspect which old man would not have tolerated if he is in-charged. What we look for a new leadership in WP surely we do not expect them to have their members behaving in similar manner as alleged to have been committed by the ruling party for indeed if we do not show our disapproval of what Yaw has done now as an example for WP to take note of our expectation than with regret WP is no different to that of the ruling party where immorality of it's senior member is an acceptable norm within their party. If that's the case why should we be cheering WP on when both the parties are just as immoral as the other. To my mind if WP wants to be taken seriously then they should nip this immoral aspect of it's senior members in the bud before it eroded into the same class as the ruling party where upright conduct of it's members is non existence. This is what we want in WP as our alternative leaders to the encumbent? To be upright in it's moral and it's feeling for the welfare of the people. One aspect is just as important as the other.

What Yaw has been alleged to have done shows a deep flaw in his character. He seems to have quite a liking for married women in total disregard and respect to those innocent husbands whose wivies he has an affair with. Chinese society has never accept a Sze Mien Ching and has always expressed it's disgust with such character. I am sure if those women he has an affair with are available female I don't think he will be harrased to such a degree now but then he has queer taste in going after married women that's where the called for him to step down as MP for Hougang is all about. Do you really think it is fair for the people of Hougang to be represented by a Sze Mien Ching in Parliament no matter one will like to console themselves that so long as Yaw is able to discharge his duty as MP it is acceptable to allow Yaw to continue to be their MP? I for one think he should be replaced as soon as possible for this man has a dark side in him and to allow him to continue to be an MP of Hougang is not fair to the people of Hougang. It is therefore encumbent for LTK to do the right thing for the people of Hougang and the longer he drag his foot the faster he will be lossing his integrity as a leader of WP and one whom his present high status came about from the people of Hougang.

The two civil servants that are now under investigation for their corruption that they received in kind came about because of their high status. Is it wrong to draw a same inference to Yaw as well. He is an MP whose status is even higher that those two civil servants and there is a possibility of that high status of his that has overpowering effect on those unfortunate females of his affairs especially the married one. The New Paper reported the case of that PRC married woman that Yaw has an affair with as one that has been hired to assist him in preparing his speech in mandarin. Was there not a possibility that PRC woman have betrayed her husband to keep that business contract which Yaw need for his MP duties alive. To a certain extend there is some similarity here though it may not be on an all four basis. It's that high position that is needed to secure that contract that warrants that extra services that she has to provide which would not have came about if no additional services to the customer was not use to sweeten the deal.

As for that married party member that has said to be impregnated by Yaw one cannot rule out that the submissiveness on her part to Yaw and expectation of climbing up that party ladder was not induced by Yaw's senior position within the party and his status as an MP of Hougang. This is where the CEC has not forcus their mind on and indeed if they have Yaw would have been send packing and a bye-election in Hougang will come into effect. That should have been the right way to deal with this sad saga if WP wants to show to the people that they are serious in their claim of having proper accountability to the people which they are of the view it is lacking in the ruling party and that's where they should be considered by the people as the alternative the people are longing for. This saga put WP to a test of their claim of accountability to the people in it's moral and discharge of duty and it seems as of now they have failed big time on it's first limb of high standard of moral conduct as required of them.

Before you rant like your grandfather try and establish what this is communicating. If both Shanmugam and Yaw should not be spared, that is exactly why I am asking him and the rest spamming this forum with that topic.

 

[wMulew]

May I ask that you answer for Shanmugan's affair, who was climbing up after that instead of down. I am asking you because the other forummers against Yaw so far, including the fat village insect, had established they no balls to do so.

And where did U get the idea of Shanmugan's affair? Base on Bullshit pull out of the ass by Scroobal? The same Scroobal that had time and time again been discredited? The thing here is this. Shanmugan's affair is a rumor, which we can also classified Yaw as the same situation. The difference here is that it didn't stick. They had little to no evidence about it, they didn't managed to stir up enough publicity to keep it going and it never became an issue. Contrast this to Steve Tan or Yaacob's son or even CCS being related to LKY. For the first and 3rd example, they were also just rumors which had no evidence to prove, similar to Yaw's situation. However unlike the Shanmugan alleged case, there was a huge outcry the same one which Yaw now face. If there was anything to compare, Yaw's case is exactly the same as Steve Tan's case and in 2 very similar situation, PAP response made WP's response look really bad.

 

[Perspective]

And where did U get the idea of Shanmugan's affair? Base on Bullshit pull out of the ass by Scroobal? The same Scroobal that had time and time again been discredited? The thing here is this. Shanmugan's affair is a rumor, which we can also classified Yaw as the same situation. The difference here is that it didn't stick. They had little to no evidence about it, they didn't managed to stir up enough publicity to keep it going and it never became an issue. Contrast this to Steve Tan or Yaacob's son or even CCS being related to LKY. For the first and 3rd example, they were also just rumors which had no evidence to prove, similar to Yaw's situation. However unlike the Shanmugan alleged case, there was a huge outcry the same one which Yaw now face. If there was anything to compare, Yaw's case is exactly the same as Steve Tan's case and in 2 very similar situation, PAP response made WP's response look really bad.

Do not have to be so defensive, it's a question only. Anyway, you base a truth on whether it sticks. And can you read threads like http://www.google.com.sg/url?sa=t&r...xsn9AQ&usg=AFQjCNHWMpOX_iyKX0SyTKTkHYheorvKgA and http://thankstovivianbalakrishnan.blogspot.com/2011/05/shanmugam-had-affair-lee-hsien-loong.html before singling out Scroobal.

Anyway, it's alright. You are a PAP supporter and entitled to your views. Many opposition supporters can also be biased towards the opposition.

 

[Fook Seng]

There is so much talk about the morality of such affairs. But if you look at the past history of such affairs even involving past ministers, morality was never the real issue. The real issue was the fear of losing votes. If in those instances, decades ago, morality was not the issue, how can it be a greater issue today and how can we claim that it will be an issue 5 years down the road?

 

[myfoot123]

There is so much talk about the morality of such affairs. But if you look at the past history of such affairs even involving past ministers, morality was never the real issue. The real issue was the fear of losing votes. If in those instances, decades ago, morality was not the issue, how can it be a greater issue today and how can we claim that it will be an issue 5 years down the road?

I agree, PAP has lost its moral ground the moment it used ISA on its opponents. Tony Tan dare not admit it. There is no moral in PAP since Singapore independent, it has skinned away all its moral fibres slowly and tacfully until the last watershed election. When you are slowly dying under PAP hands, you still have time to think of Yaw's dick? May be LKY is right, Singaporeans are daft people and love to hear motherhood statements from PAP than to take "no comments" for an answer.

 

[Balancemind]

Before you rant like your grandfather try and establish what this is communicating. If both Shanmugam and Yaw should not be spared, that is exactly why I am asking him and the rest spamming this forum with that topic.

My grandchild, you don't seem to see the bigger picture on that unfairness as you see it. The moral rot in the ruling party is permanent the result of being in power for too long that they think they can do anything without accountability. It is like the behaviour of the warlords and their arggaront male offsprings in violating defenceless females without blinking their eyes in ancient China that has bring disgust to the masses. So you think the rising star in WP should also behave in like manner and the people must also turn a blind eye to it? Remember the proverb of spare the rod and spoil the child and never let a single rotting apple to spoil the entire bin. Don't the non attendance of first time MPs at the Istana by CSM an obvious messenge to all? It has been said birds of a feather flocks together and for that no decent man or woman worth his or her moral salt will be willing to be seen as part of that rotting bin of apple. To many of us who see WP as the alternative hope for us it will be a pity should WP lost CSM and his like as a result of that rotting apple not been removed. The moral rot in the ruling party can continue for all we care but can we afford that to happen in WP? So to LTK nipping the moral rot at it's bud will produce positive result in due course. A man that developed the taste of going after married women is not worth keeping moreso when that man aspire to also be the face of WP. Is this the face of what you want to see in WP? So grow up and think deep and see a wider perspective for the good of the country to come. So let grandpa highlight to you that lets the rotting apples of the ruling party continue for all we care for the end result at the end of the day you will see no apples in the barrel but cider not even good for consumption and into the drain it goes. Have a nice Sunday, my grandchild.

 

[wMulew]

Do not have to be so defensive, it's a question only. Anyway, you base a truth on whether it sticks. And can you read threads like http://www.google.com.sg/url?sa=t&r...xsn9AQ&usg=AFQjCNHWMpOX_iyKX0SyTKTkHYheorvKgA and http://thankstovivianbalakrishnan.blogspot.com/2011/05/shanmugam-had-affair-lee-hsien-loong.html before singling out Scroobal.

Anyway, it's alright. You are a PAP supporter and entitled to your views. Many opposition supporters can also be biased towards the opposition.

U still don't understand, Yes Shanmugan's issue was a rumor, and like all rumors it made it's round but it didn't stuck in the minds of most pple coz pple do not believe in it. In Yaw's case however, it stuck, pple believe in it and that requires action. PAP have always stood up to squash rumors or clarify their stands when it comes to it, WP which is demanding accountability and transparency from PAP is not. Yaw's case maybe a false rumor(I have serious doubts) but the problem is he never stood out to refute that rumor. The problem was never about his character, it was never about national interest and there was never an overwhelming voice to demand for Yaw to step down from either his MP post or that of the CEC.

THe entire outcry was a very simple one, come out and address the rumor, which PAP has always done, and which the same was expected of WP who has been championing accoutnability and transparency. By NOT doing so, they loss moral authority to question PAP on other issues in the future. In real life, would U believe someone who has a good record of not lying to tell the truth or someone who have been proven to lie before to tell the truth? Similarly, in the eyes of most pple who are neutral and not anti-PAP, they would discount WP's call the next time they demand for transparency or acountability coz they have shown to be worst then PAP when shit hit the fan