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Time to Appreciate NON-Turbine Aero-Engines?

uncleyap

Alfrescian
Loyal
That is Piston Aircraft Engines I am talking about:

propeller.jpg


showengine.gif


WHY?

Because they can fly safer through volcanic ash, e.g. in most part of EU right now. :wink::biggrin:

These cann't

1212661060L7r4k4.jpg


http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2010/0416/Why-can-t-jets-fly-in-volcanic-ash-clouds

Why can't jets fly in volcanic ash clouds?

Dozens of airports around Europe have been closed and flights canceled because of the volcanic ash spewed from Iceland. Cars and buses are driving around Europe, so why can't jets fly through volcanic ash clouds?







The short answer is that volcanic ash is made up of tiny pieces of glass that can shut down a jet engine.
A jet engine sucks in huge amounts of air that mixes with the fuel, ignites, and releases energy.
IN PICTURES: Iceland volcano
When these bits of volcanic glass get drawn into a gas turbine jet engine, they melt and fuse to parts of the engine. The melting point of volcanic ash is about 1,100 Celsius. But a jet engine operates at temperatures about 300 degrees hotter. The bits of glass tend to melt onto the fuel nozzles and turbine blades, rather than simply passing through the engine.
The result: the jet engine (or engines) may quit.
The volcanic ash tends to be concentrated at the high altitudes where commercial airliners fly. But near the ground, it's dispersed, and doesn't have the same effect on cars, trains, or ship engines.
Boeing, one of the world's largest manufacturers of commercial aircraft, says there have been about 90 incidents of aircraft being damaged by volcanic ash over the past three decades. One of the worst was the case of British Airways Flight 9 from London to Auckland, New Zealand. On June 24, 1982, the Boeing 747-200 flew through volcanic ash spewing from Mount Galunggung in Indonesia. All four jet engines quit within one minute. The plane dropped from 36,000 feet to 13,000 feet before the crew was able to restart each of the engines.
Pilots have found that jet engines can often be restarted once the aircraft drops to a lower altitude, as the glass on the engine parts hardens, shatters, and falls away.
The British Airways Flight 9 crew landed the aircraft safely in Jarkarta, Indonesia, but the volcanic ash had sandblasted the windshield of the aircraft, making it almost impossible for the pilots to see the runway. Watch a short Al Jazeera video (at the end of this blog) that includes a brief interview with the now-retired British Airways Capt. Eric Moody who describes piloting of that flight.
Volcanic ash doesn't tend to show up on aircraft weather radar (and it didn't during that British Airways Flight 9), because the radar is designed to detect moisture (thunder clouds) and the ash is too dry - or the particles are too small - to register. Also, the volcanic ash is often not visible at night.
To help aircraft avoid volcanic ash, Volcanic Ash Advisory Centers (VAAC) were set up in the 1990s. The VAACs cover nine regions around the globe. The two that airlines rely on in Europe are in London and Paris, and are part of the national weather services in their respective countries.
The VAAC in the Met Office in Britain is tracking the volcanic ash coming from Iceland, and its site includes updates and a map or chart of the ash in the area. The maps are updated every six hours. The VAAC web sites advise airline passengers to check the airline websites. British Airways, for example, has a section on flights canceled by the volcanic ash.





volcanicASH_g1_full_600.jpg


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uncleyap

Alfrescian
Loyal
These non-turbine lighter aircrafts are still allowed to fly in EU at this time, while commercial jets are screwed.

These light aircrafts don't use the normal commercial jet's turbo-fan engines, not only these engines are much less vulnerable to volcanic ash, they also fly low than the heights that volcanic ash are problematic at the moment. :biggrin:

Just because they are slower we had mostly abandoned them.:(

But today it may be our time to rethink about them, because this will work now:

Firefly_flies_daily_to_Ipoh-topImage.jpg


but not these:

a380sing.jpg


:rolleyes::biggrin::wink::cool:
 

motormafia

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Loyal
Eureka!

So based on this weakness of turbine engines, another form of anti-aircraft munition can be developed to take warplane including helicopters down the skies?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Just fire some effective substances that will be sucked into turbine engines ahead of the warplanes, and then see melt inside of turbines and knock the engines out. It will be very cheap for 3rd world (e.g. Indonesia) to make these ammos :biggrin: using their natural resources.

Helicopters and Main Battle Tanks also use turbine engines, and shares the same vulnerability. If something so cheap like volcanic ash can fuck their engines out, a majority of warplanes can be put down from the skies by the same way! :biggrin::biggrin:

Can terrorist also exploit this? :rolleyes::eek:
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
These non-turbine lighter aircrafts are still allowed to fly in EU at this time, while commercial jets are screwed.

These light aircrafts don't use the normal commercial jet's turbo-fan engines, not only these engines are much less vulnerable to volcanic ash, they also fly low than the heights that volcanic ash are problematic at the moment. :biggrin:

Just because they are slower we had mostly abandoned them.:(

But today it may be our time to rethink about them, because this will work now:

Firefly_flies_daily_to_Ipoh-topImage.jpg


:

Yap, u need to know what pic u are posting. That is not a piston engine, in fact its a turboprop, which guess what? Is powered by a turbine engine. There are hardly any piston engine makers in the world anymore. Pistons are complicated pieces of equipment. The last piston engine plane on a mass scale was maybe the P-51 Mustang. Everyone uses Turbo props now which is essentially a small jet engine that drives a propellar for propulsion, instead of jet propulsion. Therefore, the pic of the DeHavilland Dash 8 that u showed, that plane will encounter the same problems when it flies thru volcanic ash. If too much of the ash gets sucked into the engine, whether its jet or turboprop, the engine will flame out. Even if the engine does not flame out, the ash is so abrasive that it will scar the cockpit windsreen, bluring it and making landing a very dangerous endeavour. In addition, all aircraft ventilation systems draw air from the outside to ventilate the passenger cabin, so unless u like to breath in smoke in the passenger cabin, u do not want to fly thru this crap.
 

downgrader

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Loyal
hope more volcanoes erupt worldwide

close all the airspace

everybody use boat

that is the best

learn to enjoy life slowly
 

uncleyap

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Yap, u need to know what pic u are posting. That is not a piston engine, in fact its a turboprop, which guess what? Is powered by a turbine engine. There are hardly any piston engine makers in the world anymore. Pistons are complicated pieces of equipment. The last piston engine plane on a mass scale was maybe the P-51 Mustang. Everyone uses Turbo props now which is essentially a small jet engine that drives a propellar for propulsion, instead of jet propulsion. Therefore, the pic of the DeHavilland Dash 8 that u showed, that plane will encounter the same problems when it flies thru volcanic ash. If too much of the ash gets sucked into the engine, whether its jet or turboprop, the engine will flame out. Even if the engine does not flame out, the ash is so abrasive that it will scar the cockpit windsreen, bluring it and making landing a very dangerous endeavour. In addition, all aircraft ventilation systems draw air from the outside to ventilate the passenger cabin, so unless u like to breath in smoke in the passenger cabin, u do not want to fly thru this crap.

The piston engines pictures are the ones at the beginning of the post. I added firefly airline pic just to put salt on SQ :wink:.

Essentially, Piston engines are not as vulnerable as turbines, because of lower precision and complexity, simplicity is some time a beauty.:smile:

Because these piston engine planes are flying lower and slower they are not so vulnerable to ash. I agree that eventually ash will harm even the lowest technology including hot air balloons, but high precision complex technologies are the 1st to fail always. Primitive and simple ways can still work at great length after many complicated technology got fucked up in harsh conditions.

Complex and high precision products requires a lot more difficult conditions in order to work, more factors need to be counted in. A classic revolver can still work in many more conditions where advanced machine guns had jammed and failed.:smile:
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
The piston engines pictures are the ones at the beginning of the post. I added firefly airline pic just to put salt on SQ :wink:.

Essentially, Piston engines are not as vulnerable as turbines, because of lower precision and complexity, simplicity is some time a beauty.:smile:

Because these piston engine planes are flying lower and slower they are not so vulnerable to ash. I agree that eventually ash will harm even the lowest technology including hot air balloons, but high precision complex technologies are the 1st to fail always. Primitive and simple ways can still work at great length after many complicated technology got fucked up in harsh conditions.

Complex and high precision products requires a lot more difficult conditions in order to work, more factors need to be counted in. A classic revolver can still work in many more conditions where advanced machine guns had jammed and failed.:smile:

What I am trying to tell you is that there are no pistons in these engines you keep talking about, They are all turboprops.
 

uncleyap

Alfrescian
Loyal
What I am trying to tell you is that there are no pistons in these engines you keep talking about, They are all turboprops.


You saw those pictures at the beginning of post?

I got them from google searching the keywords piston aircraft engines.

Turbines are not that practical for many 3rd world places, there are still many pistons aircraft engines. The picture that I posted clearly showed piston engines also.

In Asia Africa & South Americans there are still lots of piston engines for planes. Because turbines are too high precisions for cheap hanger maintenances.

http://images.google.com.sg/images?hl=en&q=piston aircraft engines&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Piston aircraft engines were one of my mechanical workshop subject when I was in Polytechnics. I also studied Turbofan engines, but no hands-on.

In many less 3rd worlds there is lack of facilities to maintain turbines.

Many private and light planes use piston engine even in developed countries today. E.g. famous Cessna: (pic of 1971 Cessna Engine)

<img src ="http://www.toofani.com/cessna-150-engine-top-2.JPG" width ="330">
<img src ="http://www.ila-berlin.com/ila2010/presse/galerie2008/IMG_0178%20%20Cessna%20C206%20Thielert%20Aircraft%20Engines%20GmbH%20.jpg" width ="330">


RSAF also still use these to train pilots :-)
 
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uncleyap

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<img src ="http://www.ila-berlin.com/ila2010/presse/galerie2008/IMG_0178%20%20Cessna%20C206%20Thielert%20Aircraft%20Engines%20GmbH%20.jpg" width ="330">

aircraft-cessna.jpg
 

NoNewsGood

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Loyal
Yes. This is the best thibg happen earth will cool down because valconic ass block the sun light. If few more volcano at different place blow up then we all will feel cooler. Each one in US/Latin/Indo/Japan.

Either we feel cooler or we die.

If the ash blocks too much sunlight for too long, crops deprived of sunlight will wilt. Trees will die. Rainforests will die.

Lack of food and lack of oxygen, humans will die.

This is one theory speculating how dinosaurs went extinct.
 

GoFlyKiteNow

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Sulfur dioxide fumes can enter throught the air intake of piston engines and damage the piston cylinder - causing it to shut down or worse still jam up.
 

UseYourBrain

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No Boarding annoucement, no E ticket, no danger, no immigration to pass through....ahhh just add a mask...good luck ....cabin crew prepare for arrival

flying-man.jpg
 

Katana Shōjo

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There's a simple interim solution for jets, fly lower than 6km. Of course there it will be an impact on fuel efficiency.

Turboprops are designed to fly at lower altitudes, so they should not encounter the dust cloud.

Even if the piston engines don't quit in the dust cloud (they can't fly as high as jets anyway), the windscreen will still be scratched, and avionics affected (pitot static tubes blocked etc).
 

QXD

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
I added firefly airline pic just to put salt on SQ :wink:.

Like SQ would give 2 shits. Even if you strapped yourself to a SQ landing wheel, got trampled into mincemeat during takeoff, no one would bother, maybe just provide the forum with a couple of laughs and we'll move on.


Primitive and simple ways can still work at great length after many complicated technology got fucked up in harsh conditions.
Better you go back to snail mail and stop posting here then.
 
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