places where you have travelled to and their influence on you politically

[eatshitndie]

i'll start. by continents and number of countries. consider turkey and russia as part of europe, not asia. transit at airport does not count. must have worked or attended to business in all continents. day trips and tours do not count.

africa -- 2
americas -- 7
asia -- 10
europe -- 12

total -- 31

 

[bullfrog]

Maybe TS should survey our PAP MPs and leaders too, discounting official trips and tours. Then we will know whether they also have worldy wisdom. By yr yardstick, only ambassadors, spies, diplomats, MFA people, qualify, and then mostly in one country or two.

 

[eatshitndie]

Maybe TS should survey our PAP MPs and leaders too, discounting official trips and tours. Then we will know whether they also have worldy wisdom. By yr yardstick, only ambassadors, spies, diplomats, MFA people, qualify, and then mostly in one country or two.

if true, it proves that majority of sinkies are still frogs in the well. :p

 

[Leongsam]

5 years in the UK.

1 year in France.

3 years in Silicon Valley - California USA.

10 years in OZ

5 years in NZ

The rest in Singapore.

 

[scroobal]

On a per capita basis, Singaporeans are probably the best travelled in terms of countries visited. Major airport hub, tiny country, affluent, Singapore Airlines reach. Nearly everyone in my Department from Office attendents all the way have travelled out to more than one country other than Malaysia.

In the late 1980s, SIA contemplated offering affinity programmes for civil servants, and major industry group and found that nearly every past the age of 30 have taken overseas holidays at least twice. The most popular destination after Malaysia was Australia. I suppose bus trips to Hadyai was not counted.

Another interesting trivia is the fact that the Singapore Govt as a matter of rule, requires all technology purchases to include overseas attachment and training for locals. Many of the MNCs in Jurong Industrial estate sent their local staff to Japan, Europe and the US for training. Yet another interesting feature of locals travelling is group travel by office colleagues, usually a 3 or 4 ladies travelling on packaged tours. I don't think I have met a local aged 30 and above who has not gone on a holiday overseas in the last 10 years.

I even recall my reservist regiment, many of whom travelled overseas on a yearly basis and they technicians and fitters.

 

[erection2015]

As a matter of fact, many travel magazines, publications and even our very own ST report that Singaporeans are already so widely travelled that the tour agencies have even as far as 5 years back, come out with more exotic holiday places and packages.
Moscow, the Silk Route and even Alaskan tours are some examples.
Indeed Singaporeans have been around but how they have been influenced politically is anyone's guess.

 

[Leongsam]

On a per capita basis, Singaporeans are probably the best travelled in terms of countries visited. Major airport hub, tiny country, affluent, Singapore Airlines reach. Nearly everyone in my Department from Office attendents all the way have travelled out to more than one country other than Malaysia.

While travel does open ones eyes, you don't learn about a country, warts and all, till you've lived there for a couple of years at least.

When you have been forced to listen to the politicians, when you've had to deal with morons that run the local council, when you've tried to get a business up and running, when you've dealt with their tax department, when you've waited 6 months for a pothole in front of your driveway to be fixed, when the police tell you they know who burgled your house but they don't have the resources to prosecute, when governments change and you find the new team is just as bad as the last, you'll learn to appreciate life's little blessings rather than constantly harp on the failings of the system that you have to live with.

Singapore is by no means perfect but it has a lot going for it. If the WP took over tomorrow, I can assure you that life wouldn't be any different. Trust me I know. Making flowery speeches in Parliament is easy. Actually having to run a country is a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

[scroobal]

Talking about Alaskan tour. A bunch of Singaporeans went to Anchorage and met a Singaporean running an outdoor sports store. When asked if he meets Singaporeans often he not Onlynsaid yes, he also said that he met JYM Pillay and host of other known characters.

Going of the beaten track is now the norm. Silk route, religious tours Jerusalem, Buddhist sites, Bicycle tours etc are catching on. On a number of airlines, a cycle in a box is now part of the check-in allowance of 32 kg. a decent cycle weighs about 12 kg os it is not that bad.

I would encourage the more adventurous one to cycle the west coast of the US and any part of Europe. Europe is probably more cycle friendly. just go to Youtube and find out how to box a cycle.

As a matter of fact, many travel magazines, publications and even our very own ST report that Singaporeans are already so widely travelled that the tour agencies have even as far as 5 years back, come out with more exotic holiday places and packages.Moscow, the Silk Route and even Alaskan tours are some examples.Indeed Singaporeans have been around but how they have been influenced politically is anyone's guess.

 

[scroobal]

Completely agree. Its two different things - visiting and living.

While travel does open ones eyes, you don't learn about a country, warts and all, till you've lived there for a couple of years at least.Singapore is by no means perfect but it has a lot going for it. If the WP took over tomorrow, I can assure you that life wouldn't be any different. Trust me I know. Making flowery speeches in Parliament is easy. Actually having to run a country is a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

[erection2015]

Yes ...one of my friends ( not Jaga Your Money Pillay ) went on a fishing holiday in Alaska with his wife and they loved every moment of it. Long days and mild weather in the summer.

The bicycle tours sound pretty interesting but cycling in Europe will be restricted to the low countries for me only if i ever get about to doing it.

The Alpine area appears to be too tough to tackle and enjoy. I'll leave that to the TDF experts and LeongSam.

Talking about Alaskan tour. A bunch of Singaporeans went to Anchorage and met a Singaporean running an outdoor sports store. When asked if he meets Singaporeans often he not Onlynsaid yes, he also said that he met JYM Pillay and host of other known characters.

Going of the beaten track is now the norm. Silk route, religious tours Jerusalem, Buddhist sites, Bicycle tours etc are catching on. On a number of airlines, a cycle in a box is now part of the check-in allowance of 32 kg. a decent cycle weighs about 12 kg os it is not that bad.

I would encourage the more adventurous one to cycle the west coast of the US and any part of Europe. Europe is probably more cycle friendly. just go to Youtube and find out how to box a cycle.

 

[eatshitndie]

there's no need to join the diplomatic corp or foreign affairs ministry to see the world. there are jobs and careers out there where your competency, experience, skills and maturity will land you in several countries working and dealing with locals. the commercial, corporate and working levels are far more rewarding in terms of truly learning about local conditions than diplomatic, consular or embassadorial levels....as these levels are insulated within protocols, protection, immunity, aloofness, and detached from real street life and real ordinary people.

for the few on sbf who made it to the hall of worldliness, the insights that they give to policy, regulatory and governance issues are priceless. and they are based on years of amalgating and compounding experience and observations in the face of challenges, crisis management, chaos and confusion. all these over several countries in various continents. their comments and opinions obviously carry more weight than croaks from frogs in the well.

pap elites, having the benefit and privilege of travelling and dealing at higher levels with officials from other countries (over a hundred), will view the governance of sg in a far different light than myopic mortals and frogs who think they can do a better job than these out of the well visionaries.

not defending sam here, but his years of working and dealing levels in so many countries should contrast, check and balance the obscene amount of worldliness the pap elites have accumulated. instead, they happen to verify their performance. no ass-kissing the pap there. based on objectivity. and similarly, as objective as i can be, i come to the same conclusion. it's all about the big picture. picking on the tiny cracks of mona lisa on her lips will cause you to miss the beauty of the entire painting and the lady herself.

 

[bullfrog]

I have travelled, attended business conferences and meetings and worked overseas in China, canada, Taiwan, Vietnam, U.S. They last from two weeks, a year to 4 years.

Even with all this in my background, I have to say that altho once we were doing fine, but over the last 20 years, I think the rot has gone to the head. The performance does not match the pay of the people whom we have placed our trust. In fact, I daresay the village frogs in the well will still see the PAP as gods and be nowhere as critical of them as people who have gone places, seen better things, better life, achieved more with less. So using world travel etc as a benchmark tells me nothing. I became more upset after coming home.

 

[Unrepented]

Trust is a fairtale. Rather one has to manage the available skill sets and personal agenda on offer, to achieve ones objective.

I have travelled, attended business conferences and meetings and worked overseas in China, canada, Taiwan, Vietnam, U.S. They last from two weeks, a year to 4 years.

Even with all this in my background, I have to say that altho once we were doing fine, but over the last 20 years, I think the rot has gone to the head. The performance does not match the pay of the people whom we have placed our trust. In fact, I daresay the village frogs in the well will still see the PAP as gods and be nowhere as critical of them as people who have gone places, seen better things, better life, achieved more with less. So using world travel etc as a benchmark tells me nothing. I became more upset after coming home.

 

[Char_Azn]

I've traveled to most major countries and cities in Asia, US and Europe, working in most of them ranging anywhere from 1 week to a month. By far the country that have influence my views on politics the most is India and politics doesn't get more F***ed up then that country. Every country has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Whether most pple agree or not, SG has more strengths then it has weaknesses and comparing only other countries strengths with our weaknesses is just plain stupid. Overall the country is still very well run easily comparable to any country I've worked in. There are problems no doubt about it but then again, which country doesn't?

 

[erection2015]

hey after a long hiatus ...you're back.

I've traveled to most major countries and cities in Asia, US and Europe, working in most of them ranging anywhere from 1 week to a month. By far the country that have influence my views on politics the most is India and politics doesn't get more F***ed up then that country. Every country has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Whether most pple agree or not, SG has more strengths then it has weaknesses and comparing only other countries strengths with our weaknesses is just plain stupid. Overall the country is still very well run easily comparable to any country I've worked in. There are problems no doubt about it but then again, which country doesn't?

 

[byleftcan]

Completely agree. Its two different things - visiting and living.

Indeed. Once start paying taxes, putting kids in school, having the great outdoors as an easy "cheap" weekend getaway, working as a "minority" and learning how and when to code switch and "passing", be exposed to different kinds of idiotic and insightful channels and newspapers, then one can really compare Singapore and the host country one is living in.

 

[scroobal]

There is also the personal changes that comes from relocating. Besides what you have stated, i have seen and heard things that impact people differently. There are 3 types of travel 1) tourist 2) posting as an expat and 3) the first two are distinct but the last one is a huge leap and some struggle. One consistent story that I have heard is that the mother/ wife of the family will break down in tears within the first few weeks of migration. I suspect the maternal instinct to protect and provide for the family has an impact. Guys on the other hand after 6 months want to go back if they don't have job of their liking. But this thread if about travel as a tourist so let me share an interesting continent.

Indeed. Once start paying taxes, putting kids in school, having the great outdoors as an easy "cheap" weekend getaway, working as a "minority" and learning how and when to code switch and "passing", be exposed to different kinds of idiotic and insightful channels and newspapers, then one can really compare Singapore and the host country one is living in.

 

[scroobal]

I am going to pick Africa as many have not been to that part of the world. I suspect that Singaporeans who have visited Africa tend to go to the Pyramids in Egypt or to South Africa. I have been to 11 countries in Africa and the most consistent theme i found is that English that is spoken and written properly is common place. Street vendors in Nairobi, Harare etc converse in proper gramatical English. Their vocabulary is also lot more extensive than I thought. Only Egypt's standard of English was poor.

Ldanguage wise the most bizarre country was Mauritius. Lingua franca is french creole. Official language of court, parliament, road signs are in English as well as it is the language of school instruction. But most popular newspapers are in proper French. It is also the practice to send their kids to Sunday school to learn their own mother tongue which may be Hindi, Chinese etc. so they can effectively speak 4 languages fluently. The study of mother tongue on Sundays is pretty stick evem though it is private matter.

 

[neddy]

I am going to pick Africa as many have not been to that part of the world. I suspect that Singaporeans who have visited Africa tend to go to the Pyramids in Egypt or to South Africa. I have been to 11 countries in Africa and the most consistent theme i found is that English that is spoken and written properly is common place. Street vendors in Nairobi, Harare etc converse in proper gramatical English. Their vocabulary is also lot more extensive than I thought. Only Egypt's standard of English was poor.

Ldanguage wise the most bizarre country was Mauritius. Lingua franca is french creole. Official language of court, parliament, road signs are in English as well as it is the language of school instruction. But most popular newspapers are in proper French. It is also the practice to send their kids to Sunday school to learn their own mother tongue which may be Hindi, Chinese etc. so they can effectively speak 4 languages fluently. The study of mother tongue on Sundays is pretty stick evem though it is private matter.

It is not surprising that Africa is often missed out. Besides South Africa and Egypt, many countries in that continent are "less developed", in conflicts or civil war at one time or another.

I suspect that many Singaporeans had visit Morocco. where the northern region feels like Malaysia and the southern feels like Arabian nights.
Libya was alright under the late Qaddafi. A Malaysian work destination.

Namibia, Botswana, Kenya, Nigeria (city is unsafe now) are safari destinations.
Victoria Falls and Mt Kilimanjaro should be familiar.

Many people like Egypt but I will pick Morocco mainly because at first look, there is nothing to offer seasoned tourist like me (eg do you still want to visit another Roman ruins). But visit the place and live in one of the Imperial cities for a while and you will learn to love the place and the local people, and you do not wish to leave. This is one place where tradesmen cannot afford tools to carry out the riad's renovation but the people are still practical and they do not attempt to cheat you.

Other than Marrakesh, the taxi drivers do not cheat, but I have difficulties getting into one of those petite taxis (Fiat Umo). But we can get a chauffeur with a Dacia (Renault) car.
It will be a nice change for Singaporeans.

Whether is it the Andalusian (Spain) influence in Fez ancient narrow-lane city which we can find in old part of Europe, like Lisbon, Portugal.
We can live like kings in the renovated houses that are for rent. It is a lovely experience where you can get close to the people.

For people who live on US$2 a day, it is a refreshing change from the decadence lifestyle of how we live. I wonder how long this decadence era will last, the decline is already evident but politicians heads are still stuck in the sand.

---
I did not know that there are Cantonese food in Mauritius until I met people from that island.

 

[Char_Azn]

I am going to pick Africa as many have not been to that part of the world. I suspect that Singaporeans who have visited Africa tend to go to the Pyramids in Egypt or to South Africa.

I have to agree with you. I've yet to meet many pple who travel outside those 2 countries. Kenya and Tanzania(for Mt Kilimanjaro) may be the other 2 exception. IMO connectivity to those countries as well as arrangements to get around within those countries is a problem. Getting info to travel around in most African nations is hard to come by. I've been to Egypt but that's only because it's are tourist centric and information getting around and communication doesn't post any issue. I easily got information of the places I plan to visit before I went there. It's not half as easy if you want to travel to Botswana for example when compared to Egypt of South Africa

The other continent which i feel is pretty much off most Singaporean's travel radar is South America. It's only recently that SQ have a direct flight to Brazil. Previously you'll need to switch switch flights in other countries which basically push flight cost up significantly.

hey after a long hiatus ...you're back.

Didn't really left actually. I logged in almost every other day.