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Serious Malaysia courts rules Muslim can convert to Christian

Discussion in 'The Courtyard Café' started by duluxe, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. duluxe

    duluxe Alfrescian Old Timer

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    This is something extraordinary in a Muslim country:

    In a landmark ruling last week, a Malaysian court upheld the rights of a Christian to convert from Islam.

    The judgment establishes a precedent in a country where religious conversions, particularly from Islam to Christianity, have been steeped in controversy. The verdict reaffirms the right of freedom of religion, guaranteed under Article 11 of Malaysia’s constitution.

    Rooney Rebit, the plaintiff, argued that his belief in Jesus was a fundamental human right, and the High Court in Kuching, Sarawak state, agreed. The judge, Yew Ken Jie, said, “He is free to exercise his right of freedom to religion, and he chose Christianity.”

    Rebit was born into a Christian family in 1975, but his parents converted to Islam when he was eight years old. His Muslim name was Azmi Mohamad Azam Shah.

    In 1999, Rebit embraced Christianity and was baptized.

    In her decision, Yew ruled that since Rebit was underage when he became a Muslim, he could not be considered an officially professed Muslim. But when he became a Christian at the age of 24, he was mature enough to make a conscious decision, she said.
     
  2. syed putra

    syed putra Alfrescian Old Timer

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    Sarawak and sabah state are more tolerant on religious issues as they have substantial, bumi christians. It will take decades if somebody wants to opt out of being a muslim in peninsular.
     
  3. whoami

    whoami Alfrescian (Inf)

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    I already mentioned upteem times tere is no compulsion in Islam. U dont rewrite d Quran n say otherwise. Ustand cat hitam dulux
     
  4. Devil Within

    Devil Within Alfrescian (Inf)

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    If you need a court rule to allow you to change your religion, that religion can be considered a cult.
     
  5. JohnTan

    JohnTan Alfrescian (InfP) Old Timer

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    This bumi only managed to leave Islam because the judge involved is a non-Muslim. If it was a muslim bumi judge officiating this same case, the bumi guy may be subjected to a lot more red tape or even have his request outright denied.


    That's your personal interpretation of Islam, not the official stance of the vast majority of Islamic scholars worldwide or even in this part of the world.
     
  6. whoami

    whoami Alfrescian (Inf)

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    Teres no compulsion in Islam. So plain n simple as stated in Quran. Wats tere to interpret? If those official ignore tat verse probably due to politics, tribunal reasons etc etc. No fault of d Quran..
     
  7. JohnTan

    JohnTan Alfrescian (InfP) Old Timer

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    In Muslim majority countries, Islamic scholars have repeatedly decreed that any muslim who leaves Islam is to be either jailed, lynched or executed. It's so plain and simple that there is compulsion in Islam. You are either ignorant or a liar.

    "No compulsion in Islam" has been interpreted by overwhelming majority of sunni and shia scholars as
    'free to join islam, but not allowed to leave for life', or
    'free to practice non-islamic religion as an inferior of society subjected to all sorts of institutional and unofficial discrimination'.
     
  8. spotter542

    spotter542 Alfrescian (Inf)

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    Read somewhere it is okay to kill non-believers :eek:



     
  9. whoami

    whoami Alfrescian (Inf)

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    I m neither ignorant nor a liar. As i had told u in d past my own relatives 3 children married non muslims. But all 3 of them non practising muslims. Even one of them convert to xtianity. But did my family or their relatives boycott them? No. Hari raya they still cm for gathering. See? Probm with u is u rely too much on heresay n social media. Whereas i relied on real 1st hand encounter/info. So which one more reliable? Of course tere r sm countries tat r very defensive with their muslim citizens so much so they meted out strict law on those who r murtard. But Quran doesnt command such. Show me verses fm Quran tat command murtad be killed? Tis is 21st century. Unless u wish to crawl to those tribunal ways like in Afghanistan n African states:rolleyes:

    Oh ya. The way u put it sounds as thought muslims r extremist abt their faith. We love our prophet n religion. But we dont go to d extreme as to spread our faith in hosp or go door to door to trouble non muslims. Cos teres no compulsion in Islam. U may cm n go at ur own free will.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  10. JohnTan

    JohnTan Alfrescian (InfP) Old Timer

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    I applaud you for your moderate stance on religion. However, like I said, it is sadly your personal view, not the established view in Islam.


    I do not rely on hearsay. In neighbouring Malaysia alone, malays are not allowed to leave Islam. A single muslim parent can switch a kid's religion without even the kid knowing it. There are purification centers to lock up and torture apostates until they recant and return to Islam. These are not hearsay. If you insist that these are hearsay, then I stand by my remarks that you are indeed either a liar or plain ignorant.

    If you insist that there is really no compulsion in Islam, then challenge those islamic scholars who insist on teaching muslims in mosque to harm apostates and clerics who influence local politics to pass laws to torture apostates until they recant. Why keep asking me to prove to you?

    Going door-to-door to preach religion can be annoying most of the time. However, compared to Muslim mobs wanting to kill or jail Ahok or lynch apostates, christian missionaries are only an annoyance, not a threat to society. Using "loving your prophet or religion" as some excuse to discriminate against non-muslims and to plot to harm non-muslims is what pisses most of us off about your religion. So far, christian missionaries can be annoying at times, but even the likes of Kong Hee are nowhere close to be a danger to everyone as compared to the average islamic salafi preacher.

    There is compulsion in Islam. In nearly every single Islamic majority society, people who leave Islam do so are great personal risk. They also can't go on tv or facebook to tell people about them leaving Islam for another religion or atheism because there are enough Islam-lovers who will harm them in some way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  11. whoami

    whoami Alfrescian (Inf)

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    Purification ctrs? I supp they try to rehabilitate those murtads. Nothing wrong with tat. So long no physical torture. If tere r then they have to ans to God for their deeds. Cos nowhere in d Quran did God comnand murtad be tortured or killed. So u r d 1 whos lying n playing ignorant by insinuating n suggesting d Quran stated such!

    As for Ahok. Again it goes to prove u lying again. Majotity of non muslims indon r aware such protest or riot were politically motivated. Only JOhn seems to tink watever muslims did r being comnanded by God. Chey...such a narrow n bias thinking. Go read d Quran properly then cm n discuss here.

    Oh btw. I m always in contact with muslims fm msia n indon. Do u know whenever i ask iindon muslims who they support....Anis or ah hock? They told me Ah Hock. N when i ask indon cheena same quest latter told me w/o blink of d eye they support Ah Hock. Now u tell me whos bias n whos not?:rolleyes:
     
  12. JohnTan

    JohnTan Alfrescian (InfP) Old Timer

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    So "no compulsion in Islam" to you means it is okay to lock people up if they leave Islam. Isn't that a form of compelling people to stay in Islam? So should we also lock people up in purification centres if they became muslims?

    Caught you lying! You are in favour of compelling people to stay in Islam despite your constant bullshit about 'no compulsion in islam'.

    Caught you lying again. The whole issue started because muslim politicians, along with trained islamic clerics who read too much quran, going around stating that muslims should not be voting for non-muslim leaders. Ahok disagreed and tell voters not to be misled and ended up getting jailed for blasphemy.

    So if I read the quran, should I also come to the same conclusion like most of your trained islamic clerics? That is okay to lock up apostates in "purification centres" and to not vote for non-muslims?



    You are not the only one in contact with muslims from malaysia and indonesia.

    Have a glimpse of your ISIS supporting muslims who want Ahok jailed for disagreeing that muslims are not allowed to vote for non-muslims. Most of them are here because your trained muslim clerics who read lots of quran were constantly stirring up shit, which appears to be a key aspect of islamic training - the ability to be a rabble-rouser for more islamic sharia to screw non-muslims.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. zhihau

    zhihau Alfrescian (InfP) + S-Mod Old Timer

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    These guys found the fountain of youth?
     
  14. whoami

    whoami Alfrescian (Inf)

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    Woo....scary sia. So u r sayg tat all muslims agree n support apostates be punished n killed for leaving Islam? All muslims support n believe ah hock blesphemy d Quran n he shld be jailed. All muslims r supporter of IS. Cos d Quran said so?

    U cant even produce a single verse to prove d Quran supported such acts. N watever muslims did at their own free will, u blame on Islam. Wat a lame excuse! Ppl with $$ can buy votes. Ppl with $$ can motivate his supporters to rally n protest/riot. Ppl can appear to be religious righteous n pious. But r they? 1 0f d culprits who organised d protest/riot was involved in sex scandal. U must b plain stupid to believe wat tat islamic leader was dictated by d Quran. If d Quran did command such i wld def abandon my faith n b a free thinker, God forbid.:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  15. JohnTan

    JohnTan Alfrescian (InfP) Old Timer

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    And yet according to you, 'no compulsion in Islam' means it is still okay to imprison apostates in purification centers to coerce them into returning to Islam.

    I don't have to produce any verse in the Quran. Muslims often want their debaters to show their Islamic credentials or completely shut up. Very common argument. So I just play along. I showed you enough Muslims with lots of Islamic credentials who believe and influence others into harming apostates, stirring up fellow muslims into boycotting christian political candidates. Even yourself, an islamic defender, stated that jailing apostate and coercing them to return to Islam is not considered as compulsion in islam.

    I am just curious as to why 'moderates' don't openly call out these extremists and demand that they show verses in the Quran to justify why they are stirring up trouble constantly against non-muslims for simply being non-muslims or for attacking apostates.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  16. whoami

    whoami Alfrescian (Inf)

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    Of course u have to show proof since u blame everything on d Quran. No apostacy law yet u blame d Quran. So clear n plainly stated in d Quran...teres no compulsion in religion. Told u it cld be tribul, political n poverty tat drives one to d "extreme".

    Wats wrong sending them to purification ctr? We also need to know their purpose of leaving Islam. So long theres no injuries inflict on them.

    Having islamic credentials is one thing. But to apply it is another thing. Wats more if one were to follow their desire instead of using their head to implement strict law n policy which no fault of d Quran cos latter doesnt state so. So of course u have to show proof fm d Quran to justify ur accusation tat d apostate law is stated in d Quran
     
  17. JohnTan

    JohnTan Alfrescian (InfP) Old Timer

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    You are a liar, twisting and lying. Islam threatens its followers with imprisonment, torture and death for leaving islam. It is also plainly stated by muhammad that anyone who leaves islam should be killed. Vast majority of muslim scholars, lawyers and clerics who administer islamic law already agreed on it. So, no need to keep lying in order to present islam as a peaceful religion when it is clearly not.

    They could always just fill out a survey form at their leisure at home and be done with that if you wish to know why they left Islam. Besides, why they left Islam is none of your business.

    Purification centre is just a nice name for jail or concentration camp. Jailing people for leaving their religion is torture.

    I don't have to because lots of islamic scholars who have far more credentials than you already are harming apostates. And why don't you go challenge them and get them to stop attacking apostates?

    Your reply is proof enough. According to you, jailing apostates for leaving islam is not considered as compulsion in islam.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  18. tun_dr_m

    tun_dr_m Alfrescian Old Timer

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    [​IMG]

    Those who tried to convert Muslims to Christians are shown example, of State Power Abduction ABOVE LAW, & MISSING FOREVER! Malaysia Boleh!
     
  19. duluxe

    duluxe Alfrescian Old Timer

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    Apostasy is a criminal offence in Malaysia. If PAS gains power, apostasy pnishment is DEATH at federal level! The current sharia states, apostasy penalty is DEATH. Most other states, an apostate will be fined and jailed. The truth is Islam has to much compulsion.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  20. duluxe

    duluxe Alfrescian Old Timer

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    Your relative 3 children change the religion status on their IC? I tell you my 1st hand info, not surprise to hear sad cases of malay murtads in Malaysia forbidden by their siblings to attend their common parent funeral. The more able ones have no choice but to migrate out. These are real first hand stories. You are telling the half truth of minor exceptional cases here where mufti is controlled by the government.
     

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