• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Local PhD revealed discrimination against S’porean researchers in unversities and res

makapaaa

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
33,627
Points
0
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>kojakbt_89_ <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>2:20 am </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"></TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>53755.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD id=msgtxt_1 class=msgtxt>Local PhD revealed discrimination against S’porean researchers in unversities and research institutes

PostDateIcon.png
July 9th, 2011 |
PostAuthorIcon.png
Author: Contributions |
PostEditIcon.png
Edit

I am a Singaporean and graduated locally with my PhD and did my postdoctoral training in one of the local institutes. I have spent many years in the research scene in SG and have met many locally/foreign trained fellow Singaporean researchers and scholars as well. I therefore have a good grasp of the discrimination that is going on.
All the prior comments have pointed out that FT lecturers are unable to teach. I can only agree. I skipped all my lectures conducted by a majority of my FT lecturers and would rather spend the time in the library learning myself instead of deciphering their accents, as I did not sign up to be a linguist. There are some good FT lecturers but they are few and far in between. They might have been hired based on their “exceptional” research abilities but why should students suffer? And it is obvious that none of these Professors (except for 2) are HiCi researchers. May be it is because of the way research direction is being administered.
Research direction in SG changes too fast. How are researchers expected to build on science if the research focus varies every 2-3 years? There are a lucky few who are able to do what they set out to do and these are the ones who will be successful. The pressure to publish not only results in publication of papers in low impact journals, WHICH is still okay, but the pressure has also resulted in ‘faking’ of data. Misrepresentations, cherry-pickings, incumbent-styled statistics are some of the incidents that I have come across. Although the governing body of institutes does have a whistle-blowing committee, there were instances where the whistle-blower was sacked instead. Protecting the FT bosses? May be.
Not only in the universities, but in the institutes, MOST of the executive directors and middle management leaders are FTs. Even the people in scientific advisory boards are FTs’ friends. You rub my back (by giving me a nice 2x a year business class trip to the tropics) and I rub yours (by giving you a damn good report)? This keeps the administration and funding bodies happy and BLIND to all discrimination. I shall now break down how discrimination occurs, as I have experienced it. It might vary… I’m sure there are humane FTs out there.
Opportunities
It has been discussed how little opportunities there are for local PhDs to be rehired into local universities as academics, so I shall not go into it further. Just wanted to add, even scholars now are able to choose a teaching-track, meaning NON-scholars will be further marginalized. But the treatments local PhDs received in local institutes do not make us competitive for research outside SG.
Treatment
SG researchers are often given projects and we are often treated as PhD technicians, instead of PhD scientists, generating results over and over again just to show a project is credible (many times it is not). FT researchers usually get to continue on a research track they are actually interested in, exploring and building upon their science. It is therefore very difficult for us to make a name for ourselves.
Male SG researchers also have to do NS, what does this mean? It means a stop in research for up to 3-4 weeks per year, resulting in loss of productivity and raising of eyebrows. This amounts to quite a bit, when contracts and funding are usually only 2-3 years long. Do not forget you also need to set aside time to keep fit to pass your IPPT. But SGean males will still be proud to serve our country IF we are not discriminated. The loss in productivity (i.e, less papers and patents published at the institutes) affects bonuses and usually we are marginalized.
Salary
If you graduate locally, you are paid at the lowest bracket. The next bracket is the SGeans who graduate from overseas, then the scholars. The FT researchers get the most including a housing allowance. I have not seen anywhere in the world where you get a housing allowance, as contracted researchers in institutes or universities. Everyone gets a flat rate. The reason given for being generous to FT researchers in SG is to attract good FTs and that locals already have CPF.
There are many FTs who will want to go to SG to do research and to experience Asian culture. And with research funding cut in many countries, there will be more FT researchers flocking to Asia. Is housing allowance still relevant? Besides, FTs ALSO get a gratitude payout at the end of each contract on top of their allowances. Our CPF is pretty much stuck in CPF. So, how is this comparable to housing allowance which is cash-in-hand? Coming back to bonuses, why should the director be allowed to determine how much bonuses are to be awarded? Wouldn’t friends and nepotistic staff be given more due to lack of transparency?
These are just my personal takes. There might be more issues out there if more of us come forward. There must be a serious change in the research scene. If not, the % of GDP spent on research is being flushed down the drain. Science, arts and culture can only flourish if the society is happy.
If any ministry (MTI or MOE?) or minister or MP or chairman will like to take this seriously, they are free to contact me at [email protected]. Stop listening to your aides or the flowery reports. The sentiment on the ground is a bit different. Even million dollar scholars ([URL]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sg_Review/message/1473[/URL]) have no confident in the SG research scene and its administration and are leaving after their bonds.
Thank you for reading.
.
Local researcher in search of greener pastures
* This comment was first posted on the thread ‘Local academics being discriminated by foreign heads in universities’ ([URL]http://www.temasekreview.com/2011/07/01/local-academics-being-discriminated-by-foreign-heads-in-universities/[/URL]).

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
Re: Local PhD revealed discrimination against S’porean researchers in unversities and

<TABLE id=msgUN border=0 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD id=msgUNsubj vAlign=top>
icon.aspx
Coffeeshop Chit Chat - CB PRC FT damn farking selfish !!!</TD><TD id=msgunetc noWrap align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>kojakbt_89_ <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>2:16 am </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right>(1 of 3) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"></TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>53754.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD id=msgtxt_1 class=msgtxt><CITE class=fn>I hate Prata:</CITE>
July 9, 2011 at 2:19 pm
I have experienced FT bullying local first hand while doing my masters in NUS. The whole Science dept is practically run by PRC FTs including the professors. I was assigned by the professor to a PRC FT PhD candidate who was supposed to be my “mentor”, helping to get familair with the lab equipment. She had every excuse to evade her responsibility and refused to offer assistance to me and when i asked her questions about certain subject which is supposed to be basic knowledge, like report format, she had always refused to share. very selfish. Anyway, after asking her about ten times, she only gave me half answers each time, I gave up talking to her. Instead, I have ask the technician to teach me the basics of operating the equipment and i read up on my own about more detailed techniques. I managed to complete my masters thesis without her “guidance” and score an A. But it is very hard-earned. and I know that I could have done more than what i have done should I have someone to offer show help to shorten the initial learning curve.

</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msgleft width="1%"></TD><TD class=msgopt width="24%" noWrap> Options</TD><TD class=msgrde width="50%" noWrap align=center>Reply</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
Re: Local PhD revealed discrimination against S’porean researchers in unversities and

<!-- End Forumprop advertisement --><!-- Adspace: 3in1kopitiam Sched: 0 Server: DFTCWEB003 --><CENTER><SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript> <!--HM_Array1 = [[120,"","","000099","FFFFFF","CCCCCC","CCCCFF","black","CCCCCC",0,0,0,1,0,0,"null","null",0,0],["E-Mail this Message","/n/mb/forward.asp?webtag=3in1kopitiam&Rptid=53750&t=1",1,0,0,1],["Ignore kojakbt_89_","/n/mb/ignore.asp?webtag=3in1kopitiam&Rptid=53750&u=423912393",1,0,0,1],["Print Message","/n/mb/display.asp?webtag=3in1kopitiam&Rptid=53750&print=y",1,0,0,1],["Bookmark Page","javascript:window.external.AddFavorite('http://forums.delphiforums.com/3in1kopitiam/messages?msg=53750.1',ForumName + ' #53750.1')",1,0,0,1]]HM_Array2 = [[120,"","","000099","FFFFFF","CCCCCC","CCCCFF","black","CCCCCC",0,0,0,1,0,0,"null","null",0,0],["E-Mail this Message","/n/mb/forward.asp?webtag=3in1kopitiam&Rptid=53750&t=1",1,0,0,1],["Stop Ignoring kojakbt_89_","/n/mb/neutral.asp?webtag=3in1kopitiam&Rptid=53750",1,0,0,1],["Print Message","/n/mb/display.asp?webtag=3in1kopitiam&Rptid=53750&print=y",1,0,0,1],["Bookmark Page","javascript:window.external.AddFavorite('http://forums.delphiforums.com/3in1kopitiam/messages?msg=53750.1',ForumName + ' #53750.1')",1,0,0,1]] //--></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2 src="/n/mb/HM_Loader.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2 type=text/javascript src="/n/mb/HM_ScriptDOM.js"></SCRIPT><!--PreMsgHTML--><SCRIPT language=JavaScript> <!-- //Force spider-friendly orphans info framesetfunction getQueryVariable(variable) { var query = window.location.search.substring(1); var vars = query.split("&"); for (var i=0;i<vars.length;i++) { var pair = vars.split("="); if (pair[0] == variable) { return pair[1]; } } //alert('Query Variable ' + variable + ' not found'); } if (window.top == window.self) { if (location.pathname == "/n/mb/message.asp"){ //For orphan pages with standard URL construction including query string parent.location.href = 'http:\/\/' + location.hostname + '\/' + getQueryVariable("webtag") + '/messages/?msg=' + getQueryVariable("msg"); } else if ((location.pathname.indexOf("/messages/")>0)&&(location.pathname.indexOf("?")==-1)){//For orphan pages with pretty URLs and no query string var path = location.pathname; var urlArray = path.split('messages'); var webtag = urlArray[0].replace("/", ""); var msgID = urlArray[1].replace("/", ""); msgID = msgID.replace("/", "."); var theURL = 'http:\/\/' + location.hostname + '\/' + webtag + 'messages/?msg=' + msgID; window.location.href = theURL;} } //Randomize ad positionvar ranUnrounded = Math.random()*3;var ranNumber = Math.round(ranUnrounded);if (ranNumber<1){ ranNumber = 1 }var adPosition = ranNumber;//Honor disable_ads forum propvar disable_ads = 'n';disable_ads = disable_ads.toLowerCase();if ((disable_ads.indexOf("y")==0)||(disable_ads.indexOf("t")==0)||(disable_ads==1)){ var adPosition = 0; } else { disable_ads = 'n'; } //AdSense Adsfunction google_ad_request_done(google_ads) {if (google_ads.length > 0 ) {document.write("<table cellspacing=\"0\" cellpadding=\"0\" width=\"96%\" class=\"msgtable\"><tr><td class=msg valign=top> <\/a><table width=\"100%\" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 border=0><tr class=msghead><td width=\"1%\" class=\"msgbfr1\"> <\/td><td><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr class=msghead><td width=\"1%\" align=right nowrap class=msgT>To: <\/td><td width=\"68%\" nowrap class=msgFname><b>ALL<\/b> <nobr><\/nobr> <\/td><td width=\"30%\" align=right nowrap class=msgDate><i>Advertisement<\/i> <\/td><\/tr><tr style=\"line-height: 3px;\"><td width=\"1%\"> <\/td><td width=\"68%\" nowrap> <\/td><td align=right nowrap> <\/td><\/tr><\/table><\/td><\/tr><tr><td width=\"1%\" rowspan=3 class=\"msgleft\"> <\/td><td nowrap class=wintiny>
"); if (google_info.feedback_url) {document.write("<a href=\"" + google_info.feedback_url + "\">Ads by Google");} else {document.write("Ads By Google");} document.write(" <\/td><\/tr><tr><td height=8><\/td><\/tr><tr><td class=msgtxt>");if (google_ads[0].type == 'text') {for(i = 0; i < 4; ++i) {if(google_ads.length>=(i+1)){document.write("" + google_ads.line1 + "" + google_ads.line2 + " " + google_ads.line3 + "
" + google_ads.visible_url + "
");}}}} document.write("<\/td><\/tr><tr><td> <\/td><td> <\/td><\/tr><\/table><\/td><\/tr><\/table>
<\/p>"); }function showGoogle(){ //Set Google vars google_ad_client = "pub-2093616136278178"; google_ad_output = "js"; google_max_num_ads = 20; google_ad_type = "text"; google_page_url = "http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=3in1kopitiam&nav=keywords"; google_feedback = "on"; google_ad_channel ="3496937134"; //Grab Google script document.write('<s' + 'cript type=\"text\/javas' + 'cript\" language=\"JavaS' + 'cript\" src=\"http:\/\/pagead2.googlesyndication.com\/pagead\/show_ads.js\"></scr' + 'ipt>\n'); } //--></SCRIPT><!--/PreMsgHTML--><TABLE id=msgUN border=0 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD id=msgUNsubj vAlign=top>
icon.aspx
Coffeeshop Chit Chat - Foreign Talent: We are not foreign trash</TD><TD id=msgunetc noWrap align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>kojakbt_89_ <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>12:35 am </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right>(1 of 1) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"></TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>53750.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD id=msgtxt_1 class=msgtxt>Foreign Talent: We are not foreign trash!

PostDateIcon.png
July 8th, 2011 |
PostAuthorIcon.png
Author: Contributions |
PostEditIcon.png
Edit

(This comment was posted on “Shocked at deep resentment and disappointment that many Singaporeans felt toward the government“)
.
Tan Clan:
So, ‘foreign trash’, remember u are here simply because you are cheaper and employers want to save costs.
It is amazing what conclusions you draw from no data at all. My response to this is not even a word, it’s just a sound: (snort)
But going back to the discussion, after your senseless insult that flopped. The fact that countries like Australia, UK can accommodate your people is irrelevant. This is a question of intent. If your blue collar workers have the opportunity to go, they would take it. IF THEY COULD, THEY WOULD. Your white collars are already doing it despite having less impetus to do so than their other Asian counterparts.
This is because it is logical for people to want what’s best for themselves and their families. It’s not that complicated. It doesn’t matter what your stature in life, people go after opportunities. This is only logical.
I, of course, do not really believe that people who go overseas to work is trash. I merely used the Singaporeans’ convoluted logic regarding foreign workers on themselves in the hope that they see how flawed it is. The fact that non-Singaporean blue collars can enter the Singapore labor market, and Singaporean blue collars cannot enter the Australian labor market is irrelevant. It is not the foreigners’ fault that Singapore’s system is open and Australia’s is closed.
So next time Singaporeans see foreign workers in their land, and their blood is boiling with racist hate, I feel it would be productive to consider that they are here working for their families. Had the Singaporean found himself in such a situation, he would’ve done the exact same thing.
My Singaporean colleagues have treated me only with respect and genuine friendship. I therefore found it shocking to find a lot of Singaporeans with an unhealthy attitude towards foreigners. Some of your countrymen have thrown unwarranted insults and derision on other disadvantaged people.
Your politics is your own, and your policies are your business. But whatever you decide to do, a certain civility is in order. Respect begets respect.
.
hypocrites
P.S. Tan Clan, if you thought you’re included in the group of sensible Singaporeans, you’re not. Assh*le.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>
 
Re: Local PhD revealed discrimination against S’porean researchers in unversities and

S’porean foreign talent: HK business did not fail despite employing locals

PostDateIcon.png
July 9th, 2011 |
PostAuthorIcon.png
Author: Contributions |
PostEditIcon.png
Edit

(The author of this published comment, “S’porean to Pinoy: We are not competing on equal grounds” rebutted a comment posting inside the thread. He also shared some interesting observations about the labour market in Hong Kong.)
.
July 7, 2011 at 7:27 pm
Looks author of this post is an ignoramus not familiar with basic economic equation: price is a point of equilibrium between supply & demand. The mere fact that SG goes to any country adds to labor supply of that country and thus INHERENTLY lowers price point of domestic labor in that country. This is f..king basic economics and no amount of window dressing is going to make it otherwise.
So yes, Singaporeans going overseas are lowering wages of the respective native labor forces just like Pinoys do that in SG.
.
againsomeone
Just a quick one, I am not professing that I am an economist but I beg to differ that Singaporeans who work overseas also depress the salary peg of the local salary scale they work in, if that is what I am to infer from your comment. In fact, many of those that I know of are on even or slightly more pay than the locals. There is no right or wrong in this point because we are not politicians of all the countries and it’s impossible to get stats to backup our claims. we can only go by our own experience and our friends’.
There will always be different situations where we encounter some Singaporeans may be paid slightly lower than the locals but also there are also the opposites. However in SG, it seems to be only going in one direction – the cheaper the better. It doesn’t matter if the person is good or qualified.
For one, I can assure you that when I was hired in HK MNC, my “indicated” pay on resume was not the lowest, but I was hired even though i was NOT the “cheapest candidate” nor “hassle free in terms of work visa process etc” as compared to some other local and foreign interviewees vying for the job. So no, the fact I was hired was not because I groveled by dangling a “cheaper than local carrot”. Again, I may not say it applies to every Singaporeans but I can safely say that 100% of all my peers working overseas (counting about 4 in HK, 3 in Sydney, 2 in NY, 1 in China) are on equivalent pay scale if not more.
Asking for equal footing is not, for crying out loud, equating to paying the foreign workers as much as sg citizens. But if they are truly qualified and well performing then I say they deserve it. However, what we are decrying here is when policies in place make it easy for employers to think first “locals are more expensive” before they consider “which candidate is better qualified”. Something is wrong in this picture. Take for example, I was in Changi Airport T3, past the immigration and was buying beverages at one of the cafe. The serving staff asked the tourist “What do you want to order” in mandarin. The tourist didn’t understand. The staff didn’t even bother or couldn’t speak English. I was queuing behind and I had to do the translation. Is this the right hiring process? For Christ’s sake, we are in the airport where millions of non-mandarin speaking passengers come through! It is also happening in Crystal Jade, in one of those Chinese food stall opposite Beauty World at Bukit Timah etc. I am sick of this poor level of service brought upon us by this unequal treatment. if the staff is cheap and able, and possesses the necessary skill-set, I cannot fault the hiring process. However, reality is painting a very crude and depressing picture. That we should put up with detrimental service just because foreign labor is cheap? I don’t know about you guys, but I refuse to patronize any shop that is only hiring 100% ill-trained foreign staff.
Let’s try to figure out how HK, an equally vibrant and cosmopolitan state city does it and then tell me why Sg is varying by so much.
I may not speak on behalf or for all fellow citizens but I like to believe many Singaporeans are genuine workers when they are gainfully employed in overseas and do not stir up resentment in places we work (as far as we are aware). Can we say the same of some of these foreign people in our turf? Do they play nice? Do they play fair?
Also, at least I know the HK locals are not hating me as a foreign worker here as maybe it’s because I adopt a “while I am in Rome, I do what the Romans do” attitude. I don’t try to impose on the locals my sg culture and habits. I try to integrate, respect their practices and speak their language rather than try to belittle or make fun of the country that hosts me. It’s basic respect to the host which I find some of the foreign workers in sg seem to be lacking and instead, they seem to overrun my own country which is bordering on disgrace. All these add up to the resentments from sg locals. Sure, the disastrous hiring policies may not be their doing, but hey, the foreign workers are not doing themselves any favors when they still try to behave badly, loudly or worse lazily as if they are still in their own country.
Incidentally, HK people also do not look very favorably at the under cutting pay tactic that mainlanders are fighting them for. However, the difference is that HK has policies that protect retail service industry which hires HK people first before any justification can be made to hire foreign workers (e.g, English speaker required etc). So, on the whole, I see MORE HK staff than foreign staff in any joints I go. Can I say that about SG?
I’m not a business person but i did study Economics so I am not a complete idiot in DD and SS and marginal costs. Salary is but only one of the cost in running a business. It is NOT the only cost. In fact, accordingly, wages are not even the largest part of the fixed cost in running a business. Any business is doomed to fail if their profit margin is based on cheap labor rather than good labor force. I would say “jolly good” if such business is folded. Also, if one is to say salary is the sole determinant of running a successful profitable business, then clearly, we should be expecting more HK companies to go bust compared to Sg but that is not the case. Rental space is even more expensive than Sg as far as I am aware, by the way.
On a separate note, in HK, you need to stay consecutively 7 years and be gainfully employed or be married to local before you can apply as PR. How long again did you say foreigners need to stay in sg to apply for PR? Can someone tell me? The last I spoke to some Filipino helpers in HK, they can live in HK for 14-15years and still be not allowed to apply for PR. Apparently there is a HK rule that disallows the “non-white collar” employees to be considered. Has that changed? I do not know since I don’t always keep in touch with the legislation for leisure but that was what I was told beginning of this year. I cannot speak for the HK’s PR process for white collar Filipinos because I have yet to encounter another after that disastrous Filipino manager “who was relocated from Manila to HK” left for Singapore (Editor: refer to author’s story in “S’porean to Pinoy: We are not competing on equal grounds“).
.
musing
 
Back
Top