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GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long time

NgEjay

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
26 Sept 2008

Mr Ng Kok Song, chief investment officer of GIC, told a press conference on Tuesday that the timing of GIC’s investments in Citigroup and UBS “could have been better”, but reiterated that he was “confident” both investments would offer long-term returns. (ST, “GIC achieves 4.5% annual returns”, 24 Sept)

GIC had invested about US$9.75 billion in Swiss wealth management firm UBS in December 2007 and US$6.9 billion in US bank Citigroup in January 2008.

Since last December, UBS’s share price has plunged about 60 per cent. Citigroup has fallen about 25 per cent since January, when GIC injected funds.

In my opinion, the majority of folks who are in tune with the market would have known by end of 2007 that the subprime crisis had just begun to escalate and it was nowhere near the end.

To be sure, experts at the end of last year were still divided on whether they would be an outright recession in the US. But as far as the magnitude of the credit crunch was concerned, there was little doubt that end 2007 was not even close to the halfway point.

Had Mr Ng Kok Song read credible reports like those published by the Bank Credit Analyst? If so, he would have known better than to make such ill-timed investments, the paper losses of which would have more than covered this year’s Budget handouts.

Although the US$700b bailout package marks the end of the credit turmoil, all is not rosy yet, because the current revolt in the US credit markets will soon filter down to Main Street and cause a recession in the broader economy. All leading economic indicators affirm this. There is little doubt on this now.

The US Fed needs to lower its target fed funds rate to 1.5%, and keep the yield curve steep so that financial corporations can make profits. Only then will the recession be kept shallow and the damage minimum.

I believe that inflation and interest rates in the US will rise in the coming years as a result of money printing and a gradually increasing tendency for investors to shun US assets.

Also, US GDP growth is expected to be slower in the next decade, at over 2% per annum, in contrast with the 3-4% per annum growth recorded in the last 25 years.

All of this will make the price/earning multiples of US stocks contract and create a tough environment in the US equities market.

Asia and Emerging Markets such as China and the Middle East will overtake US and Europe as the centres of economic growth. The better investment opportunities will most likely be found there.

I think GIC’s hasty investments in struggling banks of the developed economy will yield mediocre returns for a long time to come. They should have saved their powder to buy at cheaper prices, and look more towards Asia and the Middle East instead.
 

makapaaa

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

Be greatful that they "lose less than expected", not to mention any yield at all! Btw, nobody is standing up to be held accountable for the tens of billions in losses while demanding the electorate peg their pay to the BEST paid CEOs and entrepreneurs? Fi this is not Leegalized corruption, what is?
 
Z

Zombie

Guest
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

Since last December, UBS’s share price has plunged about 60 per cent. Citigroup has fallen about 25 per cent since January, when GIC injected funds.

Asia and Emerging Markets such as China and the Middle East will overtake US and Europe as the centres of economic growth. The better investment opportunities will most likely be found there.


From Jan 08 to now,
DJIA dropped from 14000 to 11000 (-21%)
China CSI300 dropped from 6000 to 2000 (-66%)

China market dropped 3x as much as that of USA.
Whoever put money in China in the same period would have died 3 times as fast. :eek:
 

DIVISION1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

Portfolio spreads require stable but low returns as well as risky high returns spread for effective risk management
 
Z

Zombie

Guest
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

Portfolio spreads require stable but low returns as well as risky high returns spread for effective risk management


The most important thing we should know about Portfolio Theory:

It is a theory. :biggrin:
 

Adidas

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

it may also take a turn towards the worst.
nobody can really tell,unless both of them come out clean about their position and condition.
 

borom

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

The main issue to me is lack of accountability which also leads to lack of transparency.As long as there are no clear guidelines (enforced by independent parties) for regular (eg annual ) performance assessment , they can always say its a long term investment and the results will be realised only in 30 to 50 years time. Will they be accountable or even be alive then?

The people must exercise their rights(through the ballot box) and voice their concerns vociferously through various legitimate means if such use of public money are to stop.Billions of public funds are being spent and yet it seems the people in this country are more interested in trivial things like car racing than in the future of their shared reserves.
 

Manchu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

The people must exercise their rights(through the ballot box) and voice their concerns vociferously through various legitimate means if such use of public money are to stop.Billions of public funds are being spent and yet it seems the people in this country are more interested in trivial things like car racing than in the future of their shared reserves.


Not forgetting the Ah Lee government legalised prostitution at Geylang to allow people to vent their frustation.....another diversion to trivial things
 

Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

Unless the GIC decision to invest in Citigroup and UBS was politically motivated, the whole staff, rank and file, who made the decision, should be called into account, explain and justify the decision in financial sense, or face demotion or even dismissal.

If it's politically motivated, then too bad, taxpayers just have to foot the bill.
 

The_Latest_H

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

Unless the GIC decision to invest in Citigroup and UBS was politically motivated, the whole staff, rank and file, who made the decision, should be called into account, explain and justify the decision in financial sense, or face demotion or even dismissal.

If it's politically motivated, then too bad, taxpayers just have to foot the bill.

Pretty much so. But my belief is that LKY thought it was an opportune time to snap up some banks in Wall street and gain some leverage in Congress & Senate through the lobbying methods to the Republicans.

But he's also a very impulsive and impatient man who doesn't think ahead and of the bigger picture. He also doesn't know much of business since he has been a lawyer and politician all his life; one who's loyal to his own self and has yes-men as his aides. All he does is to look at the smaller detail and thinks he's right.

And when he lost more money, he just continued digging himself into an even bigger hole. Most people would have stop- but he just plough further in, the stubborn mule he is.
 

Manchu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

Pretty much so. But my belief is that LKY thought it was an opportune time to snap up some banks in Wall street and gain some leverage in Congress & Senate through the lobbying methods to the Republicans.

But he's also a very impulsive and impatient man who doesn't think ahead and of the bigger picture. He also doesn't know much of business since he has been a lawyer and politician all his life; one who's loyal to his own self and has yes-men as his aides. All he does is to look at the smaller detail and thinks he's right.

And when he lost more money, he just continued digging himself into an even bigger hole. Most people would have stop- but he just plough further in, the stubborn mule he is.


Now you see why GIC spokesman came out recently and say all these rubbish like "could have done better" and that investments like in ÜBS,Barclays,Citibank....is for the longer term."" Yea, long after they are gone from this world.

It just like saying that black is black and white is also black. So they are always right NEVER wrong.
 

congo9

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

What is the "OPPOURUNITY COST" lost ?
 

Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

And when he lost more money, he just continued digging himself into an even bigger hole. Most people would have stop- but he just plough further in, the stubborn mule he is.


Trouble would be if he's not digging himself in (which I'm sure many of us don't mind), but digging Singapore and Singaporeans in.
 

The_Latest_H

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

Trouble would be if he's not digging himself in (which I'm sure many of us don't mind), but digging Singapore and Singaporeans in.

When he treated taxpayers' money as his own, he brought everyone else in with him into the muck. Its sad really. I can't wait to see how LHL gets us out of the muck his father has brought us into.

Still since I don't trust either one of them with my tax dollars- as I said before- I would rather pay majority of my taxes to Mr. Kevin Rudd and Colin Barnett instead.

At least there's checks and balances here. In Singapore, its not so.
 

2lanu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

In investment, anyone in the right mind would want to buy low sell high. It was only when it cannot be done. they come out with various reasons, excuses, theories to cover up the mistakes.
 

2lanu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

Be greatful that they "lose less than expected", not to mention any yield at all! Btw, nobody is standing up to be held accountable for the tens of billions in losses while demanding the electorate peg their pay to the BEST paid CEOs and entrepreneurs? Fi this is not Leegalized corruption, what is?

The best does not need to be peg. They show the results and the results justify their pay! The keyword here is "BEST"

They think they are the best so should peg with the best of other kinds. If I were to put a monkey in the position to peg with the best, I think monkey can perform the same.
 

hughgrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

the intention was good but the timing wrong. then again, who can predict timing?
 
Z

Zombie

Guest
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

the intention was good but the timing wrong. then again, who can predict timing?

When timing is right, sources of funds become plentiful and they overlook you.
 

kamasutra

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

the intention was good but the timing wrong. then again, who can predict timing?


Look at all the recent failed MNCs (Worldcom, Bear Sterns, Lehman Bros, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac etc...) , including those making huge sub-prime losses like Citi, UBS etc..... . The same reasoning....they claimed their intentions were good too. But the CEO and top executives have to pay the price for their failure...they were sacked by the BOARD.


Singapore wants to benchmark salaries to world class companies. But when failure, no one in top management is penalise, only crap reasons and complacency. Words are always CHEAP....it is fcuking free !
 

mscitw

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: GIC’s hasty investments in Citigroup and UBS may yield mediocre returns for long

With your spouse running the show, it gets hard to haul the rank and file to explain their premature interest in Citi and UBS!

When family relationships are involved, things become murky!
 
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