English

[Agoraphobic]

Was in Jakarta last week when during a discussion, my associate there commented that the level of English there sucks, and that communication on professional issues were disadvantaged when they are restricted to Bahasa Indonesia. That is very true. In this, Singapore stands out very well. Although we muse here about Singlish, and use it without any consciousness, many are able to switch to proper English in their work, without any difficulty. Obviously, it helps to be multi-lingual (I am disadvantaged in this, crappy Mandarin ability), but if one is able to speak only one language, then it better be English. Even in China, those with a good command of English are able to land better jobs. We see our neighbouring countries struggling with English use, and somehow feel for them. Somehow, I wish the media here would not use Singlish (some DJs use it), I suppose its ok at kopitiam level, but should not be encouraged for public speaking.

Cheers!

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...onomies-with-highest-english-proficiency.html

Top 10 Asian economies with highest English proficiency ,

China Daily/Asia News Network | World | Fri, November 06 2015, 11:04 AM

China is losing ground to other emerging markets, including Brazil and Pakistan, in the drive to learn English, according to the Financial Times citing a recent study ranking worldwide proficiency in the international language of commerce.The study shows that the Chinese mainland fell 10 places to 47th in a ranking of 70 countries compiled by Education First (EF), which based its rankings on test data from more than 900,000 adults taking online tests.In Asia, it ranked at 11th, while Singapore ranked first.The education group said the country had initially scaled the top ranks by devoting plenty of class time to English instruction, whereas continued improvement would require "more sophisticated approaches focused on communicative mastery rather than testing abilities".

Some of the economies with high English proficiency in Asia:

1. Singapore
2. Malaysia
3. India
4. South Korea
5. Vietnam
6. Japan
7. Taiwan
8. Indonesia
9. Hong Kong, China
10. Pakistan

 

[syed putra]

i believe when this Na"xi" (Nazi) Jinping came to power, he cancelled the "english is a must" policy of previous premiers to enter university.

 

[yinyang]

...continued improvement would require "more sophisticated approaches focused on communicative mastery rather than testing abilities"

Can't agree more on this. Testing is just a barometer, just as many acing school exams.

 

[Agoraphobic]

He is right in this. Although language skills are important, they should not be used as a criteria for people who might be strong in other areas. Had a classmate in Sec. 4, distinctions in Math and Science, flunked English, unable to move to A levels, repeated his O levels again - same result. Really sad. Would have been a good engineer, but the system was really fucked up for him.

Cheers!

i believe when this Na"xi" (Nazi) Jinping came to power, he cancelled the "english is a must" policy of previous premiers to enter university.

 

[Agoraphobic]

Was discussing the "exam" system we have in schools and how it is not right with a colleague, but unfortunately, there is no other system available to sort and weed out those "unqualified" ones. Sometimes, getting good grades on an exam, counts on '"luck" and some students do very well because they "spotted" the right questions, or a diligent student could be ill on the day of the exam, and ends up getting a poor score, the test does not reflect the person's true ability, but we have no other system. Again, students could be assessed based on a instructor's impression, in which, favouritism/bias may come into play, again screwing up a fair assessment. Suppose we have to live with what we have.

Cheers!

Can't agree more on this. Testing is just a barometer, just as many acing school exams.

 

[lifeafter41]

Was in Jakarta last week when during a discussion, my associate there commented that the level of English there sucks, and that communication on professional issues were disadvantaged when they are restricted to Bahasa Indonesia. That is very true. In this, Singapore stands out very well. Although we muse here about Singlish, and use it without any consciousness, many are able to switch to proper English in their work, without any difficulty. Obviously, it helps to be multi-lingual (I am disadvantaged in this, crappy Mandarin ability), but if one is able to speak only one language, then it better be English. Even in China, those with a good command of English are able to land better jobs. We see our neighbouring countries struggling with English use, and somehow feel for them. Somehow, I wish the media here would not use Singlish (some DJs use it), I suppose its ok at kopitiam level, but should not be encouraged for public speaking.

Cheers!

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...onomies-with-highest-english-proficiency.html

Top 10 Asian economies with highest English proficiency ,

China Daily/Asia News Network | World | Fri, November 06 2015, 11:04 AM

China is losing ground to other emerging markets, including Brazil and Pakistan, in the drive to learn English, according to the Financial Times citing a recent study ranking worldwide proficiency in the international language of commerce.The study shows that the Chinese mainland fell 10 places to 47th in a ranking of 70 countries compiled by Education First (EF), which based its rankings on test data from more than 900,000 adults taking online tests.In Asia, it ranked at 11th, while Singapore ranked first.The education group said the country had initially scaled the top ranks by devoting plenty of class time to English instruction, whereas continued improvement would require "more sophisticated approaches focused on communicative mastery rather than testing abilities".

Some of the economies with high English proficiency in Asia:

1. Singapore
2. Malaysia
3. India
4. South Korea
5. Vietnam
6. Japan
7. Taiwan
8. Indonesia
9. Hong Kong, China
10. Pakistan

My thought is whatever language one learns boil down to the situation where it can be use and applied.
The more one uses it, the more one become confident in speaking and expressing.

Same goes for whether one is taking on German, Russian, Japanese or even Bahasa Indonesia
The opportunity available to use it becomes important, in this instance.......

 

[eatshitndie]

how cum pinoy power not on the list?

 

[yellowarse]

how cum pinoy power not on the list?

Take the list with a pinch of salt. On recent trips to Korea, Vietnam and Japan, I found that you had a better chance of being understood if you used sign language – or even Mandarin (Korea or Japan) and Cantonese (Vietnam) – instead of English.

I'd also rank India above Malaysia, and Hong Kong above Taiwan. After all the HK Chief Justice speaks with a public school accent:

[video=youtube;04LHoIMewoc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04LHoIMewoc[/video]

 

[yinyang]

how cum pinoy power not on the list?

Glaring omission (as with many surveys) :p. Maybe their Taglish got in the way

 

[Onitsuka]

I used to like watching automobile reviews on YouTube, as many were done by US and UK. However, ever since the Indians started fiddling with YouTube, if you do a wild card search on a particular car, you are likely to end up with reviews done by Indians. Don't know WTF they are saying and they are hoarding the YouTube traffic.

 

[Agoraphobic]

Shit, for me, I am hopeless in Mandarin, even had tuition in it for a few months during Sec 1. A few years back I had to attend a seminar in Guangzhou, and was there a day earlier than my colleague as I had a meeting in Hong Kong, so wandering around in that "foreign" city, I wasn't able to read the signs - all in chink! Wasn't able to ask questions in Putonghua too! Then late in the evening, started to get hungry, and I didn't know where to go for something to eat! There were cafes, restaurants, and roadside stalls, but I couldn't bloody speak to anyone!!! Then, I saw the Golden Arches!!! Never in my life did I think I would be so happy to see the Big M! So I had dinner at MacDonald's!!! Whoopee! Just strolled in, stand in line, when my turn came, just pointed at the pictures, and received my dinner! Lucky the seminar was conducted in English, otherwise my trip there would be a total waste!

Cheers!

My thought is whatever language one learns boil down to the situation where it can be use and applied.
The more one uses it, the more one become confident in speaking and expressing........

 

[yellowarse]

I used to like watching automobile reviews on YouTube, as many were done by US and UK. However, ever since the Indians started fiddling with YouTube, if you do a wild card search on a particular car, you are likely to end up with reviews done by Indians. Don't know WTF they are saying and they are hoarding the YouTube traffic.

It's the accent. But because the Indian languages belong to the Indo-Aryan branch of languages, most native English speakers can understand heavily accented Indian English better than, say, Singlish.

BTW, many of the world's greatest writers in English are Indian or of South Asian ancestry. V S Naipaul, Salman Rushdie, Michael Ondaatje, Arundhati Roy, Pico Iyer ...

 

[Agoraphobic]

Dunno man, the writer must have forgot about them. I understand that Pinoys are used a lot by US for Call Centres.

Cheers!

how cum pinoy power not on the list?

 

[Agoraphobic]

Shit, tell me about it man! Can't stand those regional teleconferences where there is a mix of Philippinos, Indians, Vietnamese, Thais, all speaking with their home accents! Walan! Liak bo kui! Fuck, I normally just tell them to email their comments to me.

Cheers!

It's the accent. ................. ...

 

[yinyang]

...whatever language one learns boil down to the situation where it can be use and applied.
The more one uses it, the more one become confident in speaking and expressing....

Time and honoured mantra on mastering tongues: If you don't use it, you lose it
Speaking of which, I know of some "bright" linguists, who mastered the written word. But failed to express well verbally.
Needed to complete their mastery with vocal medium, be it telly, news and whatever.

..getting good grades on an exam, counts on '"luck" and some students do very well because they "spotted" the right questions...test does not reflect the person's true ability

Know of some bright secondary classmates (from chinese stream) who had "photographic" memory. Can regurgitate almost at will :p.

Another case in point, knew of a mature student on paper chase who worked his socks off on his books (and prior year sample exam questions with answers). Was devastated with his missing out on the honours, and never really understood why.
We had to "counsel" him to only understand the material and apply his comprehension to different format asked.

 

[Asterix]

Take the list with a pinch of salt. On recent trips to Korea, Vietnam and Japan, I found that you had a better chance of being understood if you used sign language – or even Mandarin (Korea or Japan) and Cantonese (Vietnam) – instead of English.

I'd also rank India above Malaysia, and Hong Kong above Taiwan. After all the HK Chief Justice speaks with a public school accent:

[video=youtube;04LHoIMewoc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04LHoIMewoc[/video]

Yah, yah, yah .......

MY DOCTOR IS IN THE SOUR

Hong Kong report highlights common mistakes by local pupils in English exam

Some pupils used the Cantonese expression "la" to end sentences and struggled with pronunciation in their oral university entrance exams in English, according to an examiner's report.

Common errors included pronouncing "daughter" as "doctor", "robot" as "Robert", "lack" as "lick", and "shower" as "sour", according to the report on the Diploma of Secondary Education English exam released yesterday.

It also found that some pupils tended to use "Chinese-influenced" English when speaking - a direct translation of the Chinese language structure, which resulted in grammatically incorrect English. Examples include "I very enjoy it" and "foreign country people".

About 68,700 candidates took the exam earlier this year, with a 79.3 per cent pass rate.

Examiners found that many pupils in the written component used certain vocabulary and stock phrases inappropriately in the hope of impressing markers.

"It is conspicuous that we should do something to wrestle with the aforementioned rub," was one such example. The candidate in fact meant: "It is clear that we should do something to consider the previously discussed problem."

Some resorted to clichés such as "every coin has two sides" and "a blessing or a curse?"

"Candidates who knew lots of expressions but had little awareness of their appropriacy did not score top marks," the report read.

The findings reflected that pupils limited themselves to reading materials that were only designed for exam preparation and lacked exposure to magazines and newspapers that used more "authentic" English.

But there was one area of improvement - pupils used fewer quotations, which do not count in gauging their language ability.

The report added that pupils spent too much time writing, sometimes producing double the word limit, and did not leave enough time to revise and edit their work.

Hong Kong's level of proficiency in English has declined in the past few years, according to a global survey by an international English training institution. It ranked Hong Kong 33rd among 70 countries and territories this year, down two places from 2013.

Hong Kong is rated as moderately proficient in the language, below Shanghai, Beijing, Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Indonesia.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...octor-sour-hong-kong-report-highlights-common

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Some of the economies with high English proficiency in Asia:

1. Singapore
2. Malaysia
3. India
4. South Korea
5. Vietnam
6. Japan
7. Taiwan
8. Indonesia
9. Hong Kong, China
10. Pakistan

We want to business not just with Asia, but the rest of the world. Not enough to have high proficiency in English compared to other Asian countries.

 

[jw5]

"We want to business............"? That's fucking atrocious English.

We want to business not just with Asia, but the rest of the world. Not enough to have high proficiency in English compared to other Asian countries.

 

[Charlie99]

Shit, for me, I am hopeless in Mandarin, even had tuition in it for a few months during Sec 1. A few years back I had to attend a seminar in Guangzhou, and was there a day earlier than my colleague as I had a meeting in Hong Kong, so wandering around in that "foreign" city, I wasn't able to read the signs - all in chink! Wasn't able to ask questions in Putonghua too! Then late in the evening, started to get hungry, and I didn't know where to go for something to eat! There were cafes, restaurants, and roadside stalls, but I couldn't bloody speak to anyone!!! Then, I saw the Golden Arches!!! Never in my life did I think I would be so happy to see the Big M! So I had dinner at MacDonald's!!! Whoopee! Just strolled in, stand in line, when my turn came, just pointed at the pictures, and received my dinner! Lucky the seminar was conducted in English, otherwise my trip there would be a total waste!

Cheers!

Are you joking?
That you are unable to start a conversation in Mandarin to find a restaurant, or to read the characters on the street, or to order some food.
My Mandarin went downhill after my First in Chinese in Primary One, but managed to pass it at O levels.