British lost war in Afghanistan - excuse: rifle 5.56mm to small

[PAP_Junta]

SAF also use 5.56mm caliber rifle so Teo Chee Hien can use the same excuses for losing any war. UK's military said their rifles are too small caliber to fight with Taliban who use the Soviet Kalashnikov AK-47 which is 7.62mm caliber.

5.56mm caliber's range is about 300-400meters, AK-47's 7.62mm can kill at 800meters. That's why British military said that they are fucked in Afghanistan by Taliban like deadmeat.

British officers said their SA80 automatic rifles are like BB toy guns, and when Talibans were shot down by these tiny caliber guns up to 5 hits the Talibans can still get up and run for cover and shoot back at British soldiers. They felt like going to war front to face Taliban with just toy guns.

Bastard Ang Moh go to war in bullet-proof jackets, and still they lost. Talibans rifles are past down from their fathers who died fighting Soviet Union, their weapons are old like hell and very outdated. But they are stronger and braver than British + Americans. Ang Mohs can never fight with Asians in real wars, Vietnam War & Korean Wars & Gulf Wars as WW2 are evidence. British lost to Japs like pussies. US won only via nuclear bombs on Nagasaki & Hiroshima.:p


http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/091029/1/1twuw.html


英軍打不過塔利班 怪子彈小
中廣 更新日期:"2009/10/29 15:05"

英國部隊在阿富汗跟塔利班游擊隊作戰，最近屢屢失利。英軍說，他們打不過塔利班是因為槍枝子彈太小。

英軍現在用的SA80步槍口徑是五點五六釐米，有效射程三百公尺。塔利班用的AK-47步槍，口徑七點六二釐米，比英軍的大了一號，有效射程可達八百公尺。

英軍表示，在阿富汗山區作戰，跟敵人開火的距離多半相距三百到九百公尺。英軍步槍子彈打出去，離敵人還有好幾百公尺就洩了勁了，根本治不住塔利班。

一名退役軍官說，有個弟兄對著一個塔利班游擊隊開了五槍，游擊隊還能站起身來找掩蔽。他說，SA80在阿富汗就跟BB槍一樣，連車門都打不穿。他建議英軍全面換上大口徑步槍，別再拿玩具槍上火線了。

不過，英國國防部說，美軍和北約部隊都用五點五六子彈，沒聽說過有打不死敵人的情形。

 

[allanlee]

Previously the brits can win so many battles was because the gurkhas were doing their fighting for them........ without the gurkhas now...... they are screwed

 

[MM.Thaksin]

Fucked up white men can not swim still blame swimming truck for being too large? :p

 

[TeeKee]

How can a heavier round like 7.62mm have greater range than a lighter 5.56mm?

Furthermore ak 47 is highly inaccurate than a M16!

But the NATO rounds have better stopping power.

 

[motormafia]

How can a heavier round like 7.62mm have greater range than a lighter 5.56mm?

Furthermore ak 47 is highly inaccurate than a M16!

But the NATO rounds have better stopping power.

Guns + bullets or Bow + Arrow or Catapult or Canons are all Kinetic Energy Weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy

<img class="tex" alt="E_k =\tfrac{1}{2} mv^2 " src="http://172.31.254.244/upload.wikimedia.orgg/math/4/1/4/4140f53f66a68e92afec2389ba289e25.png" />

The physical formula stated that kinetic energy of solid mass equals to half the sum of mass itself and the square of it's velocity.

Therefore bullets mass is important factor of kill, the heavier the bullet the further it can be shot out to. But the energy source have to be sufficiently strong, i.e. the propellant exploding inside the ammo cartridge.

But when the bullet travel it will expend some of it's energy in it's impact against the air, in that consideration the smaller it's cross sectional size it will be more efficient. Meaning it's shape better be a dart or arrow rather than a ball.

In combination of the 2 paragraphs above, the Density of bullets become also important. That they have to heavy but small in size. Therefore they use lead to make bullets. They also use depleted uranium to make anti-tank APDS ammos because they are very dense heavy metals.

The accuracy of guns are nothing to do with their models, weather AK-47 or M16. They are in the precision of manufacturing barrels & ammo. Both AK-47 & M16 have cheap inaccurate as well as high precision productions.

In the 3rd world there are many copies of AK-47 from cheap productions, e.g. Afghanistan & Pakistan makes AK-47 bullets at backyard, those are not accurate. But those made at top PRC & Russian armory plants are highly accurate, can be as good as Olympic shooting pieces or sniper arms.

M-16 = piece of shit because it's basic design of gas piston is very flawed or wrongly done. It's always jammed in training & wars. US GIs abandoned them in Iraq & Afghan and picked up AK-47 to try to survive.

 

[scroobal]

Let me try a simpler explanation.

5.56 is smaller and lighter than AK47's 7.62. Its therefore less powerful and less range. Its positives however are, the ability to carry more rounds. Its meant for close combat and personal protection. The logic is to apply firepower in terms of frequency for greater damage or greater protection.

So why then is the other party carrying AK47 and using 7.62mm. Their form of warfare is guerilla, short engagement period, quick hits from longer distances and quick takeoff and demoralising impact on the enemy with greater damage due to higher calibre (no hope of survival compared to 5.56mm)

If the roles were reversed, the NATO guys will be using 7.62mm while the Iraqi's will be using 5.56m

Guns + bullets or Bow + Arrow or Catapult or Canons are all Kinetic Energy Weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy

<img class="tex" alt="E_k =\tfrac{1}{2} mv^2 " src="http://172.31.254.244/upload.wikimedia.orgg/math/4/1/4/4140f53f66a68e92afec2389ba289e25.png" />

The physical formula stated that kinetic energy of solid mass equals to half the sum of mass itself and the square of it's velocity.

.

 

[motormafia]

Let me try a simpler explanation.

5.56 is smaller and lighter than AK47's 7.62. Its therefore less powerful and less range. Its positives however are, the ability to carry more rounds. Its meant for close combat and personal protection. The logic is to apply firepower in terms of frequency for greater damage or greater protection.

So why then is the other party carrying AK47 and using 7.62mm. Their form of warfare is guerilla, short engagement period, quick hits from longer distances and quick takeoff and demoralising impact on the enemy with greater damage due to higher calibre (no hope of survival compared to 5.56mm)

If the roles were reversed, the NATO guys will be using 7.62mm while the Iraqi's will be using 5.56m

Vietnamese used AK-47 both in guerrilla & conventional uniformed (NVA) troops, and beat US GIs' shit in their pants.

5.56mm rifles is not a personal protection side arm. It is meant to be automatic assault rifle, but it is too poorly designed. Side arms are usually 9mm pistols or SMGs used by e.g. US special service (Obama's body guards)

When Reagon was assassinated (he got shot 1 bullet hole) his SS guards pulled out their SMGs, this was captured by news reporters.

M-16's HUGE problem is their wrong design of gas operation, it use a very long pipe to pipe blast gas from barrel back all the way into bolt-carrier and even to bolt inside the carrier. This cause the powders to get inside the precision mechanism & jam the gun like no body's business.

AK-47 which is also gas operated (designed by Mr. Kalashnikov in year 1947 hence the model be 47) does not pipe the barrel's gas any further than 3 inches, the gas pressure action is transmitted to the bolt via a long push-rod. Therefore it is very very reliable unlike all the USA Colt models from M-16 to AR-15 to M-4 Carbines etc.

There is also a 5.56mm version of Kalashnikov, which is made in 1974, hence known as AK-74, which using almost same ammo as NATO. PRC & South Americans also make these models. There are also many long barrels snippers version & sub-machine gun version, even have a curved barrel version (for tanks' close defense) you can check Internet guns.ru site.

The problem is not the 5.56mm caliber. It is the design.

Actually the NATO 5.56x45mm[1767J] is a longer and bigger sized ammo than the 7.62x39mm AK-47 ammo [2010J] . It is longer hence the magazine is larger, but it's energy is weaker by 243J

The important factor for longer range is the bullet's mass since mass remains constant regardless of range (distance) while velocity reduced at the further of range (distance) VERY DRASTICALLY since the physical formula stated that kinetic energy drops by the SQUARE of velocity, so the slow bullets becomes very very weak at the further down the range, but if it is HEAVY then it still have a property to retain energy.

There are SUB-SONIC bullets used for very special silencer guns which are heavy bullets depending on it own weight rather than initial velocity to kill. The advantage is it don't produce a loud sonic crack (PIAK sound which is featured by all normal supersonic bullets) along their ways to their targets. So the special forces can drop enemies dead silently without alerting other enemies. So that they can drop them by surprise one by one. This example shows that it is not all speed but weight is important. SUB-SONIC bullets travels with sounds only like arrows, so it can pass-by you and drop man next to you dead, you can only hear that man's skull crack but you have no idea where is the silent shooter hiding.

There is a 7.62mmx39 version of M-16, but it is also equally fucked up as the original M-16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeCuKTs6XO8

 

[scroobal]

Will just take your first sentence and ask you to comment

Who were in the main using conventional battle tactics and who were in the main using guerilla tactics during the Vietnam war? No need to think hard. everyone knows this.

Vietnamese used AK-47 both in guerrilla & conventional uniformed (NVA) troops, and beat US GIs' shit in their pants.

 

[Watchman]

Our SAF soldiers worst no more range practice now !

All the SAF budget say goes to top guns officers and their happy hour !

 

[Watchman]

But when war they expect the WOSEs to fight !

And peace time no training with guns ! Peace time officers manipulated military budget .

 

[hairylee]

What he is actually saying is that British soldiers' morale and motivation is of 5.56 calibre whereas the Talibans' is 7.62.
The soldiers' are not to be blamed. What are they fighting for in Afghanistan. Taliban are fighting for their country and families.

 

[neddy]

The Brits can write what they want. The press know that it is not true. The Brits just want to generate debate and sell more newspapers.

 

[Lord Imperious]

Previously the brits can win so many battles was because the gurkhas were doing their fighting for them........ without the gurkhas now...... they are screwed

It's all about the will to kill and dominate. This war has no profit in it.

 

[flkyflky]

It's all about the will to kill and dominate. This war has no profit in it.

Don't forget it is oil / gas. Afghanistan have none, but it is the route between Pakistan & Kazakhstan to pipe old & gas from Kazakhstan via Afghan & Pakistan to Indian ocean so that western tankers can fill. This is the strategic oil & gas the west is stealing from under the nose of Russian Putin.

This is big deal.

Why Russia wanted control of Afghanistan in the previous Afghan War.