BREAD: Don't expect the govt to be moved. It will continue with state of denial.

Confuseous

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Will the government be moved by this event? Unlikely. Never underestimate a ruling class’ capacity for denial.

I do think however that they were shaken by the angry responses they saw on social media, and taken aback by opposition from among their own backbenchers. But since they simply cannot see any other way ahead, they’re not about to change their minds. As for this protest, even 5,000 people on a field is something they can conveniently dismiss as yet another “vocal minority”, or “the usual suspects”.

More likely, the ministers will retreat a bit more into a sense of martyrdom. They are still convinced that they know best, but hurt that their well-thought-through plans and hard work are not appreciated. “We will go down fighting, let history be the judge” is an easy cry to adopt. It has the benefit of preserving pride while mitigating the need to think again.

- http://yawningbread.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/five-thousand-gather-to-protest-population-white-paper/
 
There is nothing wrong with sticking to a strategy you know is right for the country.

Only weak leaders allow themselves to be swayed by the mob.
 
The Singapore Inc workers told their factory boss that the factory is overcrowded and occupational work health and safety are compromised. The boss said that's none of the workers' business, he owns the factory and all he wants is more profits. He also told them that if they are not happy they can go as he can easily get workers to replace them.
 
mob? Sure you dont get swayed by mobs, but think twice if it is common cittizens.


There is nothing wrong with sticking to a strategy you know is right for the country.

Only weak leaders allow themselves to be swayed by the mob.
 
Five thousand gather to protest population White Paper
Published 17 February 2013 politics and government , society and culture 12 Comments
Yawning Bread


The protest held on Saturday, 16 February 2013, against the government’s 6.9 million population White Paper saw the second largest crowd ever at Hong Lim Park. Organisers estimated it to be 4,000 to 5,000, which puts it second only to Pink Dot 2012. Walking around and observing the density of the crowd myself, I more or less agree with the estimate. More might have come if not for the drizzly weather.

With that kind of crowd size, there will be plenty of reports on social media, but nonetheless, I don’t think anyone else is going to make the observation I made: the language of the rally explains the rally.

What do I mean by that?

Okay, I arrived about 15 minutes late, so I must have missed the first two speeches, but I stayed till the end, and from the time I arrived, I noticed that all the speeches were made in English. And not just English. All were made in Singapore-accented standard English.

Of course, many other events at Hong Lim over the past four or five years have been conducted solely in English, but they tended to be niche events, drawing people concerned with a cause they identified with. This population protest was broader-based and aimed to speak for Singaporeans in general. And speak to Singaporeans in general. And yet, the event used just one language.

Pause for a moment, and think through the history of Singapore. How interesting it is that we have reached this point.



From the 1950s up till maybe the 1990s, organisers would have taken the trouble to have speeches in several languages. At the election rallies of the 1950s and 1960s for example, there would also have been speeches in two, three or four Chinese dialects. Even now, at some events, e.g. election rallies, National Day Rallies and various constituency celebrations, multi-lingual speeches are still programmed. However, it is increasingly more for form than function.

At the Hong Lim Park population protest, form was not a consideration. Function was, and it was recognised that English alone would serve.

But how does that explain the protest? It’s like this: Our arrival at a single language platform signals the gelling of identity. From separate communities of 50 years ago, each speaking its own language, the Singaporean has emerged. There is a common sense of culture and place, and it is this shared appreciation of culture and place that the Population White Paper rudely tramples over. Thus the outrage.

Or rather: thus part of the reason for the outrage.

Bread and butter issues are the other part. To put it simply, people are fed up enough about the rising cost of living (which is the other side of the coin of stagnant incomes) and congestion in transport, health and other infrastructure. They are also anxious about job competition and security. The White Paper manged to press all these red buttons in one go! The widespread fear is that an increased population load would mean increased competition for resources, be they housing, transport or jobs.

* * * * *

The speakers at the rally knew what was uppermost in people’s minds.

Tan Kin Lian spoke about “long queues in hospitals . . . and just to get an HDB flat.”

Lee Kah Jing pointed out that the White Paper’s boast about 65% of Singaporeans getting into PMET jobs is misconceived. This especially as it means we will need to import more people to do non-PMET work. “We don’t need so many PMET [among Singaporeans] if we pay a decent wage for manual work,” he said. “There’s nothing in the White Paper that reassures the bottom 20 percent that they will be looked after.”

Nizam Ismail asked the crowd: “With immigration, what do you think will happen to the income gap? What effect on prices?”

Tan Jee Say noted that “four economists . . . were highly critical of the White Paper, systematically pointing out the flaws. But we have not heard any counter-argument from the cabinet.” The real reason behind the White Paper, he said, had nothing to do with giving Singaporeans a better life. After all, it’s the same strategy as has been applied in the last ten years. And during that time, “we saw depressed wages for the lower-income groups and an increased income gap.”

“So ordinary Singaporeans are worse off.”

Several speakers addressed the question of Singapore’s economic model.

Tan Kin Lian said, “Our problem is that our economic structure is a mess. Too many people are working in banks, property, insurance, moneylending, speculating [on motor vehicle Certificates of Entitlement] for example. Too few people want to be engineers, teachers, nurses.” We’re putting people in the wrong places, he argued. If we can redistribute our human resources, “Singaporeans can fill all these jobs, so we don’t depend so much on foreigners.”

“Wages must be enough for them to raise a family, pay for an HDB flat and save for the future,” he argued.

Tan Kin Lian closed by linking the issue to the birthrate, but wasn’t specific, except to say that Singapore needs “to take a new look and find a new solution . . . so you can earn more and be able to afford to raise a family.” To encourage young Singaporeans to start families, we need to “tackle the root of the problem.”

It was Lee Kah Jing who called for a minimum wage. “We need an absolute national focus on the birthrate, not immigration. We need work-life balance, a minimum wage and more confidence in the future to start a family.”



Tan Jee Say too supported a minimum wage. Moreover, we need a “robust social safety net”, he added, one that will assure families of financial security. He suggested more state investment in education and healthcare to take the burden of costs off people’s backs. “Better to spend reserves on Singaporeans than on building infrastructure to accommodate more foreigners,” he told the crowd.

Jeannette Chong-Aruldoss spoke mainly on Singapore’s misfocus on people as economic digits. “We have lost the plot,” she said. “Instead of sustaining our national identity, our government concerned itself with sustaining GDP,” and brought in other people. She said we are not doing enough in building our social infrastructure, like caring for our elderly and those who are not as economically productive. “How are we supporting families? How much are were doing to support Singaporeans who want to get married and have children?”

Lee Kah Jing warned that a key assumption in the White Paper may be unsound. Singapore will only be able to attract immigrants if we can pay them better salaries than they can get in their home countries. It’s not an assured prospect since the GDP per capita in Beijing, Shanghai and Mumbai is already in the range of US$8,000 to US$12,000. Immigration as a strategy for Singapore is “not sustainable,” he argued.

Nizam Ismail took issue with the way the White Paper was rammed through. “Why did the entire machinery of the state forget to consult?” he asked. He touched on the state’s reluctance to engage with civil society, but “civil society groups reflect many different aspirations of Singaporeans.” As for the state’s attitude towards social media and blogs, Nizam described it as “regrettable.” He said the government merely sees them as “noise”, and on saying that, he turned to the crowd: “Let’s hear some noise!”

The crowd responded: “Reject, reject, reject.”

Nizam also took issue with mainstream media reports and how they reveal the “groupthink” behind the White Paper. They seem to believe, he said, that “only elites are fit enough to think for Singapore.”

It was Sem Teo who made sharper political remarks. “The fish rots from the head,” she said.

Tan Jee Say devoted a good chunk of his allotted time to explaining the numbers behind his argument that new citizens provide the People’s Action Party with a solid voting block of 5 – 6 percent. Coming here to work is one thing, but “there is no economic reason to convert them to citizens,” he pointed out.



Vincent Wijeyshingha came closest to what I was thinking. “The White Paper attacks us in our very deepest identity,” he said, adding that it reveals two things: “One, the government doesn’t understand what it means to be an ordinary Singaporean; two, it does not seem to care.”

“Our fear of being displaced from our own homes is as old as humanity itself. We feel betrayed that those whom we trusted to look after us now close their ears to our apprehension, our worries and our fears.”

However, he devoted the bulk of his speech to arguing against turning xenophobic. All human beings have the instinct to be safe, to belong and to be fed and clothed. Not just Singaporeans, but foreigners who come here to seek a better life too. We should not direct our anger at them, he said. “They deserve our respect and friendship.” Instead, in opposing government policy, “we must direct our dissatisfaction at our government.”



* * * * *

How much effect Wijeysingha had is hard to say. But I can see he was very conscious that not only is xenophobia a close cousin of anti-immigration sentiment anywhere in the world, but that the lead organiser of the protest, Gilbert Goh, has a history of making somewhat xenophobic remarks.

In fact, the day before the rally, an old post by Goh resurfaced. It was an absurdly stereotypical analysis of the various migrant communities in Singapore. Mainland Chinese are like this, Filipinos are like that, Myarmese [sic] are like that . . . and so on. They were nowhere near to being hateful words, so ‘xenophobia’ would be a bit extreme as a description — at least in this instance — but the post certainly revealed a mind that saw people primarily in ethnic and national-origin pigeonholes. Several Facebookers took exception to the post and he took it down quickly, with apologies added.

Then at the rally itself, the emcee slipped on the same banana skin when he tried to say that we should reject xenophobia. Unfortunately his next few sentences were embarrassing, to say the least; “facepalm” moments, as someone called them. He said he had a Malay friend when young, and he “even” had Indian friends. Erm, what he described were friendships across race lines; quite a different thing from xenophobia. And what’s with “even” having an Indian friend, as if Indians are so far out that having a friend of that kind was like wow.

* * * * *

Like an increasing number of dissent events, this protest incorporated the reciting of the national pledge and the singing of the national anthem in its programme. This practice is beginning to be overdone and getting a little cheesy. However, people take to it with gusto. Like I’ve said, there is a growing sense of Singaporean nationhood. Even so, I sometimes wonder if the inclusion of these rites is to fend off accusations that dissent is unpatriotic?
 
Sounds like the usual liberal left wing socialist propaganda to me.

Every speaker harping on the responsibilities of the government to look after the lazy and unmotivated but nothing about Singaporeans themselves needing to re-establish the work ethic that took Singapore from 3rd world to 1st in less than a generation.
 
There is nothing wrong with sticking to a strategy you know is right for the country.

Only weak leaders allow themselves to be swayed by the mob.

Trying his best to be Pro PAP because he knows that one false move, his sammyboy.com will be shut down. Pathetic. Living on sinkies' sorrows.
 
Trying his best to be Pro PAP because he knows that one false move, his sammyboy.com will be shut down. Pathetic. Living on sinkies' sorrows.

Shut down???? How????? :eek:
 
There is nothing wrong with sticking to a strategy you know is right for the country.

Only weak leaders allow themselves to be swayed by the mob.
And here are some leaders who were not swayed by mobs:
Gaddafi
Mubarak
Ben Ali of Tunisia
Marcos
Assad

All wonderfully strong leaders . Whether a policy is right or wrong nobody can implement it successfully against widespread public opposition. Singaporeans are not used to public demonstrations so what we have is pretty mild today. Bring in a horde of East Asians and South Asians and Singapore will have much more colorful street protests within a generation.
 
I understand NZ is full of hardworking motivated people who have no need of government welfare.

Singaporeans work the longest hours in the world. They are by no means lazy. By now nobody expects the government to take care of them. Very simply they are protesting high costs and low wages. The message from the speakers is simple. In a first world country, if you are prepared to put in an honest day's work you should be able to feed yourself , put a roof over your head and put something aside for a decent retirement. Risk takers are entitled to more if they can make it. The Singapore establishment is a gigantic bureaucracy. Bureaucracies in the end only exist to perpetuate itself. In Singapore the government does this through rent seeking. Expanding the population enlarges the base to provide for them.

Some references have been made to Goh Chok Tong's Swiss standard of living. To give him some benefit of the doubt, that can only be taken as an aspiration, nobody can promise that. However what he did promise, and very few remember this, is as follows: "If Singaporeans will commit to 10 years of education, the government will ensure they will be able to make a living". Most young Singaporeans now have more than 10 years of education and they still cannot be sure they can make a living. If the government have failed on this key promise they should give up their big bucks until they deliver.
 
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There is nothing wrong with sticking to a strategy you know is right for the country.

Only weak leaders allow themselves to be swayed by the mob.

3000 is not a mob. Some music concert of small time band have more people attending.
 
Take comfort that it is only 2,000 to 3,000 because of the limitation of the venue. Be comfortable too if the figure is two times or even three larger so that when the final awakening dawns on the ruling party, it will be a truly memorable one.
 
And here are some leaders who were not swayed by mobs:
Gaddafi
Mubarak
Ben Ali of Tunisia
Marcos
Assad

Look at all those countries now... in even worse shit than they ever were. Had they shown respect for their leaders, they'd be much better off.
 
I understand NZ is full of hardworking motivated people who have no need of government welfare.
NZ is a classic example of why welfare does not work. It is because of my experience in NZ that I am constantly warning Singaporeans never to help the poor. All it will do is create more poor.

Singaporeans work the longest hours in the world. They are by no means lazy.

They spend long hours at work ... that I do agree. However, they aren't actually working. It's called "wayang". The traffic patterns in this forum confirm this. The majority of the members here log on during office hours.
 
And here are some leaders who were not swayed by mobs:
Gaddafi
Mubarak
Ben Ali of Tunisia
Marcos
Assad

situation in these countries are much worse than before the revolution.
 
Will the government be moved by this event? Unlikely. Never underestimate a ruling class’ capacity for denial.

It will not matter if they are moved or not moved by this event.
This event is but only a catalyst.

That will end with the total removal of all those cockroaches in white.
 
Look at all those countries now... in even worse shit than they ever were. Had they shown respect for their leaders, they'd be much better off.

Democracy will not work well unless you have an enlightened electorate.

From Wikipedia:

Golda Meir, Prime Minister of Israel from 1969 to 1974, once joked that "in Israel, there are 3 million prime ministers". The particular version of proportional representation used, in which the whole country is a single constituency, encourages the formation of a large number of political parties, many with very specialized platforms, and often advocating the tenets of particular interest-groups. The prevalent balance between the largest parties means that the smaller parties can have strong influence disproportionate to their size. Due to their ability to act as tie breakers, they often use this status to block legislation or promote their own agenda, even contrary to the manifesto of the larger party in office.

From the founding of Israel in 1948 until the election of May 1977, Israel was ruled by successive coalition governments led by the Labor Alignment (or Mapai prior to 1967). From 1967 to 1970, a national unity government included all of Israel's parties except for the two factions of the Communist Party of Israel. After the 1977 election, the Revisionist Zionist Likud bloc (then composed of Herut, the Liberals, and the smaller La'am Party) came to power, forming a coalition with the National Religious Party, Agudat Israel, and with others.

The 2013 Freedom in the World annual survey and report by U.S.-based Freedom House, which attempts to measure the degree of democracy and political freedom in every nation, ranked Israel as the Middle East and North Africa’s only free country.


For more, please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Israel

So, how did Israel managed not just to survive but prosper despite being a Zionist island in an Arabic Muslim sea? And all this while it was ruled by COALITION GOVERNMENTS and its citizens have all the democratic rights of a FIRST WORLD country including the right to protest?

Does it boil down then to the difference between a SINKIE and an Israeli?
 
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democracy only works if the people understand and believe in the system. If you take muslim and give them one man one vote, what happen is that the biggest terrorist islamic group will become government, they are not ready for democracy, it takes hundreds of years of culture and change in the thinking of people.
 
Now there will be a split, a chasm within the PAP: those who see the protests and think something should be done (or else they'll risk losing their $15k per month part-time job) vs those who think everything is going to be alright, full steam ahead to 6.9million.

This split will be more visible once the Old Fart kicks the bucket.
 
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