Boeing MUST DIE! C-919 backlog orders #=1008 planes CR-929 backlog orders #=200 planes!

[tun_dr_m]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919

Comac C919


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Orders
At the November 2010 Zhuhai Airshow, Comac announced orders for 55 C919 aircraft from six airlines, with an additional 45 options. The purchasing airlines or lessors included China Eastern Airlines, Air China, Hainan Airlines, China Southern Airlines, CDB Leasing Company, and GE Capital Aviation Services.[66] On 19 October 2011, Chinese ICBC Leasing ordered 45 C919s and agreed to be the launch customer.[67] On 11 November 2014, Comac announced at the 2014 Zhuhai Airshow that China Merchants Bank's aircraft leasing division made a firm commitment for 30 C919s, and that total orders were now up to 450 aircraft.[68]
At the June 2015 Paris Air Show, Ping An Leasing signed a letter of intent for 50 C919s, becoming one of Comac's largest customers, and Puren Group signed a letter of intent for seven C919s and seven ARJ21s, intended for the start-up Puren Airlines.[69] In November 2016 COMAC has received an order for 20 C919s including 5 firm from Shanghai Pudong Development Bank Financial Leasing and for 36 C919s from CITIC Group Financial Leasing including 18 firm.[70] While no down payments were needed before its maiden flight, 500,000 yuan ($76,000) were deposited subsequently for each firm order.[71] The last ICBC Leasing order for 55 on 5 December 2017 brought the order book to 785.[72] In February 2018, its total order book was for 815, before the order for 200 from HNA Group in June 2018, along 100 ARJ-21s.[73]
As of 31 August 2018, FlightGlobal recenses 305 orders plus 45 options and 658 letters of intent: 1008 commitments.[29]
Orders
Customer Firm
orders Options
LOI/MOU All Date Air China (Beijing)[66] 5 15 20 15 Nov 2010 China Eastern Airlines, Shanghai[66] 5 15 20 15 Nov 2010 China Southern Airlines, Guangzhou[66] 5 15 20 15 Nov 2010 GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS)[66] + 13 Nov 2012[74] 10 10 20 15 Nov 2010 Hainan Airlines, Haikou, under Grand China Air[66] 15 5 20 15 Nov 2010 ICBC Leasing, Beijing[67] 45 19 Oct 2011 Sichuan Airlines[75] 20 21 Oct 2011 BOCOMM Leasing, Shanghai[76] 30 23 Nov 2011 China Aircraft Leasing Company (CALC), Hong Kong[77] 20 9 Dec 2011 Bank of China – BOC Aviation[78] 20 14 Feb 2012 China Development Bank Leasing Company, Beijing[79] 10 0 10 29 Jun 2012 Agricultural Bank of China Financial Leasing[80] 45 2 Jul 2012 China Construction Bank Financial Leasing[81] 26 24 50 19 Sep 2012 Joy Air, Xi'an[74] 20 13 Nov 2012 Hebei Airlines, Shijiazhuang[74] 20 13 Nov 2012 Industrial Bank Co. Financial Leasing, Fuzhou[82] 20 29 Oct 2013 China Merchants Bank Leasing[68] 0 30 (MOU) 30 12 Nov 2014 Hua Xia Bank Financial Leasing[83] 0 20 (LOI) 20 30 Jan 2015 Ping An Insurance Leasing, Shanghai[69] 0 50 50 17 Jun 2015 Puren Group[a][69] 0 7 7 17 Jun 2015 City Airwayshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919#cite_note-87[86] 10 (MOU) 10 16 Sep 2015 CITIC Group Financial Leasing[70] 18 18 36 1 Nov 2016 Shanghai Pudong Development Bank Financial Leasing Co[70] 5 15 20 1 Nov 2016 China Everbright Group Financial Leasing Co[87] 30 30 13 Jun 2017 China Nuclear E&C Group[71] 20 20 40 19 Sep 2017 Huabao Leasing[71] 15 15 30 19 Sep 2017 AVIC International Leasing[71] 15 15 30 19 Sep 2017 Agricultural Bank of China (ABC) Financial Leasing[71] 20 10 30 19 Sep 2017 ICBC Leasing, Beijing[72] 55 5 Dec 2017 HNA Group[73] 200 2 Jun 2018 Total[29] 305 703 1008



https://news.sina.com.cn/c/2019-06-08/doc-ihvhiews7498490.shtml

中俄CR929大飞机 俄方透露一个重要数字




2019年06月08日 15:07 观察者网



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原标题：CR929俄方企业总经理：已获得200架采购的“软合同”
自年初波音空难丑闻曝光后，中俄联合研制的CR929远程宽体客机获得了越来越多的关注和期待。在刚刚结束的圣彼得堡国际经济论坛上，传来了一个新消息。
据俄罗斯联邦议会官方出版物《议会报》7日报道，中俄联合远程宽体客机CR929的项目工作已经接近尾声，双方已获得200架采购的“软合同（мягкие контракты/soft contracts）”。
当天，俄罗斯联合航空制造集团（UAC）总经理尤里•斯柳萨里在圣彼得堡国际经济论坛的“中俄商业对话会”上透露了这一消息。

斯柳萨里 图自俄塔社
斯柳萨里指出，CR929联合项目使得其公司和中国商飞（COMAC）能够在不合并为一家的情况下，共同研发一款创新的飞机。
“我记得这个项目的主要细节：（这款飞机的）航程是1.2万公里，载客量超过280人，投资达130亿美元。” 斯柳萨里说。他同时表示，已经与航空公司签署了供应200架CR929的“软合同”。
注：根据牛津在线参考资料库，“软合同”是指双方承认能够从合作中互利的一种合同。之所以为“软”，因为它没有明确规定每一方需要交付什么，但明确了双方之间的关系，以及各自在确保互利的可交付成果上扮演的角色。
目前，CR929尚未完成最终设计，确定所有具体指标。根据商飞给出的时间表，CR929将在2022年完成设计冻结，2025年实现首飞，2027年完成取证并交付用户。
报道提及，在CR929联合项目的框架内，中国商飞将开发和生产一种复合金属机身，俄罗斯联合航空制造集团则负责一种复合材料机翼的工作。此外，飞机的总装将在上海的中国商飞工厂进行，工程中心将设在莫斯科。

CR929模型 图自IC photo
新华社去年12月27日报道，CR929项目复合材料前机身攻关全尺寸筒段顺利总装下线。这是继展示样机之后，CR929项目的又一阶段性成果，标志着CR929项目复合材料结构研制向前迈出重要一步。
此外，CR929的发动机招标工作在2017年12月份就已经启动，截至去年6月份就已经收到了7份发动机投标。中国商飞CR929项目办公室主任谢灿军今年年初透露，CR929将在今年上半年完成发动机供应商的选定。
今年3月，埃塞俄比亚驻华大使造访上海、参观中国商飞公司。期间，他参观了CR929的驾驶舱和头等舱，赞许地表示：“不久我们就能看到它们飞上蓝天了。”

中俄远程宽体客机是两国企业在高科技领域开展务实合作的重大战略性合作项目。
2016年6月25日，中国商飞公司与俄罗斯联合航空制造集团签署了项目合资合同。
2017年5月22日，双方企业在上海共同成立了合资公司——中俄国际商用飞机有限责任公司。
作为中俄远程宽体客机项目的实施主体，合资公司主要负责项目研制开发的策划、组织、协调、管理与实施，全机技术集成和产品全生命周期管理。
2017年9月，中俄联合远程宽体客机正式命名为CR929，C和R分别是中俄两国英文名称首字母，代表该款宽体客机是两国企业合作研制的先进商用飞机。
“929”中的“9”是最大的数字，寓意长长久久，代表双方合作深远而持久，也代表该款飞机寿命期会更长、运营期会更久，合资公司发展规模会更加壮大；“2”表示该款飞机由两国企业携手合作、联合研制。
中国商飞公司副总经理、中俄国际商用飞机有限责任公司副董事长史坚忠接受媒体采访时表示，CR929项目要经过立项、可行性研究、初步设计、研发制造、交付市场等阶段。
宽体客机将按照国际主流适航标准开展研制。根据研制经验，从项目启动到实现首飞，预计需要7年左右时间，到实现产品交付预计需要10年左右时间。

责任编辑：赵明


Sino-Russian CR929 big plane, Russia revealed an important number





June 08, 2019 15:07 Observer Network




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Original title: CR929 Russian company general manager: has obtained 200 "soft contracts" for purchase

Since the Boeing air crash scandal was exposed at the beginning of the year, the CR929 long-range wide-body passenger aircraft jointly developed by China and Russia has gained more and more attention and expectation. At the just-concluded International Economic Forum in St. Petersburg, a new news came.

According to the official report of the Russian Federation Parliament, the "Parliament" reported on the 7th, the project of the Sino-Russian joint wide-body passenger aircraft CR929 is nearing completion, and the two sides have obtained 200 "soft contracts (мягкие контракты/soft contracts)".

On the same day, Yuri Slysari, general manager of the United Airlines Manufacturing Group (UAC), revealed the news at the Sino-Russian Business Dialogue at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum.
Slysari, from Otasha, Sulisari, from Otto

Slysari pointed out that the CR929 joint project enabled its company and COMAC to jointly develop an innovative aircraft without being merged into one.

“I remember the main details of this project: (this aircraft) has a range of 12,000 kilometers, carrying more than 280 passengers and investing 13 billion US dollars.” Slysari said. He also said that he has signed a "soft contract" with the airline to supply 200 CR929.

Note: According to the Oxford Online Reference Library, “soft contract” refers to a contract that both parties recognize to be mutually beneficial from cooperation. It is “soft” because it does not clearly define what each party needs to deliver, but it clarifies the relationship between the two parties and their respective roles in ensuring mutually beneficial deliverables.

Currently, CR929 has not completed the final design and identified all specific indicators. According to the timetable given by COMAC, CR929 will complete the design freeze in 2022, the first flight in 2025, and the forensics and delivery to users in 2027.

The report mentioned that within the framework of the CR929 joint project, COMAC will develop and produce a composite metal fuselage, and the United Airlines Manufacturing Group is responsible for the work of a composite wing. In addition, the final assembly of the aircraft will be carried out at the COMAC plant in Shanghai, and the engineering center will be located in Moscow.
CR929 model Figure from IC photoCR929 model Picture from IC photo

Xinhua News Agency reported on December 27 last year that the CR929 project composite material front fuselage attacked the full-size cylinder segment smoothly assembled. This is another phase of the CR929 project following the demonstration of the prototype, marking an important step forward in the development of the composite structure of the CR929 project.

In addition, the engine bidding for the CR929 was launched in December 2017 and seven engine bids have been received as of June last year. Xie Canjun, director of the office of China Commercial Aircraft CR929 Project, revealed at the beginning of this year that CR929 will complete the selection of engine suppliers in the first half of this year.

In March of this year, the Ethiopian ambassador to China visited Shanghai and visited China Commercial Aircraft Corporation. During the visit, he visited the cockpit and first class of the CR929 and said with approval: "We will soon see them flying into the sky."
The Sino-Russian long-range wide-body passenger aircraft is a major strategic cooperation project for the two countries to carry out pragmatic cooperation in the high-tech field. The Sino-Russian long-range wide-body passenger aircraft is a major strategic cooperation project for the two countries to carry out pragmatic cooperation in the high-tech field.

On June 25, 2016, COMAC and Russia United Airlines Manufacturing Group signed a joint venture contract.

On May 22, 2017, the two companies jointly established a joint venture company, Sino-Russian International Commercial Aircraft Co., Ltd. in Shanghai.

As the main body of the Sino-Russian long-range wide-body aircraft project, the joint venture company is mainly responsible for the planning, organization, coordination, management and implementation of project development, machine-wide technology integration and product lifecycle management.

In September 2017, the Sino-Russian joint long-body passenger aircraft was officially named CR929. C and R were the initials of the English names of China and Russia respectively, representing that the wide-body aircraft was an advanced commercial aircraft jointly developed by the two countries.

The "9" in "929" is the largest number, meaning long and long-lasting, representing the long-term and long-lasting cooperation between the two parties. It also means that the aircraft will have a longer life span and a longer operating period, and the scale of the joint venture company will grow stronger; "2" indicates that the aircraft was jointly developed and jointly developed by the two companies.

Shi Jianzhong, deputy general manager of China Commercial Aircraft Corporation and vice chairman of Sino-Russian International Commercial Aircraft Co., Ltd., said in an interview with the media that the CR929 project will undergo phases such as project establishment, feasibility study, preliminary design, R&D and manufacturing, and delivery to the market.

The wide-body aircraft will be developed in accordance with international mainstream airworthiness standards. According to the development experience, it takes about 7 years from the start of the project to the first flight, and it takes about 10 years to achieve product delivery.


Editor in charge: Zhao Ming

 

[syed putra]

These planes uses american avionics and parts. But maybe after trumps trestment of huawei, they may go solo.

 

[tun_dr_m]

These planes uses american avionics and parts. But maybe after trumps trestment of huawei, they may go solo.

These are just tricks to get foreign market acceptance. There is no need to use foreign parts at all. Chinese got everything better and cheaper. Once they go mass production, the Chow Ang Moh Parts will all be replaced. And it is a bait also, to bait Dotard to block American suppliers. Then Chinese will replace them and say go blame your own Dotard.

It was also a transitional starting stage stepping stones. Because the C-919 began in 2017, when Chinese own system were not done yet (before Y-20 completion), so to have a head start instead of awaiting they use some foreign parts to skip some uncertainties. Now Y-20 is fully mass produced, and even it's engine in the middle of switching to Totally Chinese Designed and Produced model. They can easily switch everything.

Y-20 initially used Russian Engine （D-30KP-2）, then transitioned to Chinese compatible equivalent（涡扇18 = WS-18）, then further transitioned to fully Chinese designed with more advanced power and weight & fuel economy + durability （涡扇20= WS-20）.







http://www.sohu.com/a/227759254_204190

中国运20配装涡扇20发动机，心脏病彻底治愈，美军都无可奈何

2018-04-10 08:47

近日，据英国简氏防务周刊报道称，近期美国卫星拍摄了一组的中国运20基地机场的照片，从图片上可清晰的看见运20的发动机有着明显的变化，不再采用俄制的D-30KP-2发动机，而是与之前曝光的涡扇20十分相似，而运20的这次现身，就证明了中国运20已经在进行最后的验证了。有军事专家称，涡扇20的出现不仅解决了运20心脏病的问题，同时也为中国大推力发动机领域开辟了新天地。

目前中国运20只有很小一部分加入了中国空军，要大批量装备部队估计还需要5年左右。同时中国现阶段也只能依靠伊尔76来解决中国运输的问题。不过随着中国外出执行任务的次数增加，伊尔76也是远远满足不了解放军的需求。而涡扇20的出现对中国具有十分重要的意义，同时涡扇20可以彻底解决中国军民两用进口发动机的问题，而涡扇20与运20将决定中国空军未来转型战略的成败。

有军事专家称，现今中国运20可在短期内实现换装涡扇20已经没有任何困难。同时涡扇20亦可在今年装配部分到运20上。这对中国航空工业来说，可以有效地解决我国在远程军事投送方面的问题，而涡扇20的问世也是恰逢其时。

综上所述，涡扇20的出现标志着我国成为第五个能够拥有大涵道比高性能涡扇发动机的世界大国。在未来的一段时间，中国会以运20为基础改进出新型的特种飞机，配备涡扇20发动机，未来将彻底摆脱俄制发动机限制，使中国真正意义上立足于世界之巅。返回搜狐，查看更多




https://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2019-03-07/doc-ihrfqzkc1949233.shtml

运20今年将有重大发展：或换装涡扇20 改成加油机

运20今年将有重大发展：或换装涡扇20 改成加油机



97

运-20大型军用运输机
在我国新型空军装备中，有一个“庞然大物”从服役之日起就备受关注，它就是空战时重要的战略武器——运-20大型军用运输机。古时候有句话说：“兵马未动粮草先行”，军用运输机恰好就是负责运送“粮草”的主力军。作为一个大国空军部队，运-20的诞生极大的满足空军的运输需求。
运-20不仅是一款集合各种新技术、新理念的运输机，而且一次可以运载66吨物资，最大起飞重量达到220吨。更重要的是，作为一款“千呼万唤始出来”的军用运输机，运-20除了可以做好本职工作以外，还能改装成很多个空中平台，对特种机型的发展起到了至关重要的作用。近日，就曝光了运-20的后续发展情况。
3月4日，中国人大解放军代表冯玮在参会时透露了一个重要信息。需要了解的是，冯玮之前是轰-6K轰炸机的飞行员，后来转隶任运-20大型军用运输机飞行员。在提到运-20的后续发展状况是，冯玮表示：“今年该型运输机会给外界带来耳目一新的感觉，一定不会让大家失望。”

此前曝光的运20加油机卫星图片
众所周知，运-20、歼-20、歼-15分别是我国运输机、战斗机、舰载机三个领域中最尖端的代表几种。如今，歼-20已被披露将“系列化发展”，歼-15也已经上舰训练，在万众期待中，运-20的后续发展也终于被提及。关于运-20的后续发展，大多数分析都倾向于改装成其他空中平台，例如：预警机、加油机……
此前，就有最新公开的卫星图片显示，中国空军正在利用运-20改装空中加油机。在2018年底的时候，人民网就曾援引俄媒的报道称，由运-20改装的空中加油机已经首飞成功。要知道，空中加油机是一款可以直接影响作战效能的战机，由运-20改装的空中加油机，或许在未来还能与歼-20成为“黄金搭档”。我国著名军事专家曹卫东说过，运-20加油机可解决歼-20“短腿”的问题。

运-20加油机想象图
这一点并非是外媒的猜测，早在去年5月份的时候，央视网就曾在报道中透露，在航空工业发布的宣传片中透露出一则重要信息，那就是中国可能正在研制硬管加油型运-20加油机，未来该技术还很有可能推广至国产隐身战机歼-20上。由此可见，这一切并非“空穴来风”。
当然，除了改装成为空中加油机以外，运-20还有一个后续发展可能，一旦成真就应验了总师唐长红在2017年时说过的一句话。当时，唐长红总师说未来运-20可以开发成多种系列化的专业平台飞机，同时他还透露：“运-20安装国产发动机已经有了时间表，大概在明年或者后年就能看到。”

运-20-783号原型机装一台涡扇-20测试
有意思的是，在运-20加油机有相关消息曝出的同时，日前网络上传出一张图片显示，曾在珠海航展飞行表演的运-20-783号原型机左机翼内侧换装一台大涵道比涡扇发动机，或许意味着为运-20研制多年的涡扇-20开始正式装备前的测试工作。（作者署名：前沿哨所 叮允）


Image result for Yun 20 turbofan 20


Http://www.sohu.com/a/227759254_204190


China Yun 20 equipped with turbofan 20 engine, heart disease completely cured, the US military can not help

2018-04-10 08:47



Recently, according to the British Jane's Defense Weekly report, the recent US satellite photographed a group of photos of the China Yun 20 base airport. From the picture, it can be clearly seen that the engine of the Yun 20 has obvious changes, and the Russian-made D is no longer used. The -30KP-2 engine is very similar to the previously exposed turbofan 20, and the appearance of the Yun 20 proves that China Yun 20 has been finalized. Some military experts said that the emergence of turbofan 20 not only solved the problem of Yun 20 heart disease, but also opened up a new world for China's large thrust engine field.





At present, only a small part of China Yun 20 has joined the Chinese Air Force. It is estimated that it will take about 5 years to equip the troops in large quantities. At the same time, China can only rely on Il 76 to solve the problem of China's transportation. However, with the increase in the number of missions out of China, the Ir 76 is far from meeting the needs of the PLA. The appearance of turbofan 20 is of great significance to China. At the same time, turbofan 20 can completely solve the problem of Chinese military and civilian dual-use imported engines, and turbofan 20 and Yun 20 will determine the success or failure of the Chinese Air Force's future transformation strategy.





Some military experts said that today China Yun 20 can achieve the short-term replacement of the turbofan 20 has no difficulty. At the same time, the turbofan 20 can also be assembled on the 20th of this year. For the Chinese aviation industry, this can effectively solve the problems of China's long-range military delivery, and the advent of the turbofan 20 is also the right time.





In summary, the emergence of turbofan 20 marks China as the fifth largest country in the world with a high bypass ratio high performance turbofan engine. In the future, China will improve the new type of special aircraft based on the Yun 20, equipped with a turbofan 20 engine, and will completely get rid of the Russian-made engine restrictions in the future, making China truly based on the top of the world. Go back to Sohu and see more



Image result for Yun 20 turbofan 20


Https://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2019-03-07/doc-ihrfqzkc1949233.shtml


Yun 20 will have a major development this year: or change the turbofan 20 into a tanker


Yun 20 will have a major development this year: or change the turbofan 20 into a tanker



97



Yun-20 large military transport aircraft

In China's new air force equipment, there is a "big monster" that has received much attention since its service. It is an important strategic weapon in the air warfare - the Yun-20 large military transport aircraft. In ancient times, there was a saying: "The soldiers and horses did not move the grain and grass first." The military transport plane happened to be the main force responsible for transporting the "grain and grass." As a large air force, the birth of Yun-20 greatly meets the transportation needs of the Air Force.

Yun-20 is not only a transport machine that combines various new technologies and new concepts, but also can carry 66 tons of materials at a time, with a maximum takeoff weight of 220 tons. More importantly, as a military transport aircraft that “starts out”, Yun-20 can be modified into a number of aerial platforms in addition to its own work, which is crucial for the development of special models. Important role. Recently, it has exposed the follow-up development of Yun-20.

On March 4th, Feng Xiao, a representative of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, revealed an important message during the meeting. What needs to be understood is that Feng Wei was a pilot of the H-6K bomber before, and later transferred to the Renyun-20 large military transport pilot. Referring to the follow-up development of Yun-20, Feng Wei said: "This year's transportation opportunities will bring a refreshing feeling to the outside world, and will certainly not disappoint everyone."

Previously exposed image of the 20 tanker satellite

As we all know, Yun-20, 歼-20 and 歼-15 are the most advanced representatives in the three fields of transport aircraft, fighter aircraft and carrier aircraft. Nowadays, the J-20 has been disclosed as “series development”, and the J-15 has also been trained on the ship. In the long-awaited, the follow-up development of Yun-20 has finally been mentioned. Regarding the follow-up development of Yun-20, most of the analysis tends to be converted into other aerial platforms, such as: early warning aircraft, fuel dispensers...

Previously, there were the latest public satellite images showing that the Chinese Air Force is using the Yun-20 to modify the aerial tanker. At the end of 2018, People’s Daily had quoted Russian media reports that the air tanker modified by Yun-20 had already made its first flight. It should be known that the aerial tanker is a fighter that can directly affect the operational effectiveness. The air tanker modified by Yun-20 may become a “golden partner” with the 歼-20 in the future. Cao Weidong, a famous military expert in China, said that the Yun-20 tanker can solve the problem of the 歼-20 "short leg".

Yun-20 tanker imagination

This is not a speculation by foreign media. As early as last May, CCTV reported in the report that an important piece of information was revealed in the propaganda film released by the aviation industry, that is, China may be developing hard-tube refueling. Type Yun-20 tanker, in the future, this technology is also likely to be promoted to the domestic stealth fighter 歼-20. From this we can see that this is not a "compassionate wind".

Of course, in addition to being converted into an aerial tanker, Yun-20 has a follow-up development possibility. Once it is realized, it will be fulfilled by a general manager Tang Changhong in 2017. At that time, General Manager Chang Changhong said that the future Yun-20 could be developed into a variety of professional platform aircraft. At the same time, he also revealed: "The installation of the domestic engine has a timetable, which will be seen in next year or next year. ""

Yun-20-783 prototype installed a turbofan-20 test

Interestingly, at the same time that the news of the Yun-20 tanker was exposed, a picture was uploaded from the network recently, and the inside of the left wing of the prototype No. -20-783, which had been in the air show of Zhuhai Air Show, was replaced. The Taiwan-Taiwan bypass ratio turbofan engine may mean that the turbofan-20, which has been developed for many years, has begun testing before the official equipment. (Author's signature: Frontier post) Yu Yun)

 

[nightsafari]

These planes uses american avionics and parts. But maybe after trumps trestment of huawei, they may go solo.

then wouldn't that imply that these planes would be grounded if trump imposed an embargo on their avionics?

 

[tun_dr_m]

then wouldn't that imply that these planes would be grounded if trump imposed an embargo on their avionics?

That is bait alike Huawei. Awaiting for Dotard to bite.

Once he bite, C-919 will kill Boeing. Everything is ready to INSTANTLY REPLACE whatever the Chow Ang Moh got, and cheaper and better.

 

[3_M]

Don't think china got any problem with fitting their own avionic. Afterall their Y20 , Y8 etc use homegrown avionic system. The only problem here is market acceptance as airlines will need to train their crews and engineers to the new systems. This will make the new airliner less marketable.

 

[nightsafari]

That is bait alike Huawei. Awaiting for Dotard to bite.

Once he bite, C-919 will kill Boeing. Everything is ready to INSTANTLY REPLACE whatever the Chow Ang Moh got, and cheaper and better.

interesting. I still want to see the conclusion of Huawei story. C-919 still just starting. OTOH, Boeing may have already killed themselves with 737 Max.

 

[syed putra]

interesting. I still want to see the conclusion of Huawei story. C-919 still just starting. OTOH, Boeing may have already killed themselves with 737 Max.

Boeing can easily replace the B737 mac with russia's mc-21. About same size, but bigger fuselage diameter. That means interior less cramped. Just pay license fee for the design. And use western parts most pilots and maintenance crew are familiar with.

 

[nightsafari]

Boeing can easily replace the B737 mac with russia's mc-21. About same size, but bigger fuselage diameter. That means interior less cramped. Just pay license fee for the design. And use western parts most pilots and maintenance crew are familiar with.

while a technically sound idea, can you just see it working politically?

 

[syed putra]

while a technically sound idea, can you just see it working politically?

To save boeing, trump will do anything.

 

[maxxi]

Can get FAA,EASA cert? Otherwise only fly in China can.

 

[tun_dr_m]

Don't think china got any problem with fitting their own avionic. Afterall their Y20 , Y8 etc use homegrown avionic system. The only problem here is market acceptance as airlines will need to train their crews and engineers to the new systems. This will make the new airliner less marketable.

Yah, actually large heavy planes avionics much more simple and rigid than fighter jets and combat drones. In particular helicopter and multi-rotor drones are much more tricky. Commercial airliners does not do somersaults, barrel rolls, etc stunts. Copters & Multi-rotor Drones, got to execute about 100 calculations and sensor measurements to control each rotors' speed precisely (rpm) to balance and gesture the drone, the hardest thing is to make it hover still and hold it's photographic position within a varying wind. Chinese DJI is superb in this, to produce aerial videos so sharp stable and perfect.

Commercial airliners are piece of cake for Chinese, they are steady slow and heavy planes that do no difficult maneuvers. They are like old folks dinosaurs compared with drones which are alike bees - flipping wings many hundred times per mins, none must go wrong or else will flip over and drop off the sky.

 

[syed putra]

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AEROTIME TEAM
on 5th May 2017
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CIVIL AVIATIONMade in China: why C919 can hardly be called Chinese

The long-planned Chinese rival to Boeing and Airbus, the C919, has finally had its maiden flight in Shanghai. What’s next? A short wait until it becomes clear whether the introduction of China’s first indigenous aircraft will make a difference in the global manufacturing battle.
Now, the C919 is a national project initiative launched by the ruling Communist Party of China (CPC) to transform the country into a creator of profitable technology in aviation, clean energy, and other priority fields.
But let’s take another little step back in history. The work on the twin-engine single-aisle COMAC C919 began back in 2006. This was the first attempt of the Chinese aircraft designers to gain a foothold in the niche of single-aisle jets, which continues to be dominated by Boeing and Airbus – the two giants of the global aviation industry – to date. The other agenda of the project initiators back then was to compete with the development of the Russian Irkut MC-21.

In the meantime, Doug Alder from Boeing Media Relations is confident that Boeing’s current and future airplane lineup is best suited to meet the needs of customers across the globe, including in China. Understandably, while the C919 will not be available on the market for several years, both major manufacturers are free to enjoy COMAC’S 919 main market niche.

Undoubtedly, with this in mind, there are certain features of C919 to watch out for.​

The all-new jet can seat up to 168 passengers and has already received orders from more than 20 customers, mostly from Chinese carriers. While COMAC is yet to reveal the price tag of its jet, a report by China National Radio in June predicted that a C919 was likely to be priced at $50 million, i.e. up to 30% less than B737, A320, MC-21 or SSJ-100.

Therefore, if the C919 is cheaper than a B737 MAX or A320neo, will the cost average out in terms of lifetime fuel burn and maintenance? Probably not.
The Boeing’s 737 MAX is projected to be more fuel efficient than other airplanes in its category. But even though it is only an estimation, there is still a huge stigma regarding Chinese production being unsafe and thus the plain is destined to score low in terms of international esteem.

Yet the stigma is not 100% accurate. Just recall the case of iPhones – they are also assembled in China and sourced with components from different parts of the world. When it comes to C919 components, try to guess, how much Chinese is the first China’s jet?
Although the C919 falls under the well-known label “Made in China” (the same is indicated on any iPhone’s cover), foreign firms play key roles by supplying systems, as well as the engines, which are manufactured by the CFM. Part of the avionics, including the communications system as well as the navigation and control systems, are supplied by Rockwell Collins. Everything – from the IT systems and cockpit displays to black boxes are delivered by GE Aviation and its partner AVIC Systems. The power supply system of the C919 is also produced by an ‘outsider’, i.e. Hamilton Sundstrand. Honeywell is to provide wheels and brakes, brake control system (BCS) and tires. To sum up, the Radar cover, wings, airframe and tail – that’s how much Chinese is the new China’s jet.

“The COMAC C919 is a very international aircraft, consistent with the aircraft of Boeing and Airbus. With that in mind, it should offer better opportunities in terms of maintenance or spare parts supply for the C919 operators world-wide,” agrees Rick Kennedy, the Media Relations manager from GE.​

It should be noted that when it comes to aircraft production, the Chinese working on the C919 project are basically collaborating through joint ventures with other manufacturers. Moreover, in other high-tech industries, they have been also relying on the trusted experience of the actual Western OEMs: Volkswagen for automobiles, Cisco for telecommunications and Bombardier for high-speed rail. However, some experts argue that COMAC will not serve as the same model when it comes to competing with Boeing or Airbus.
“Having in mind that COMAC was established in 2008, China wants to do what took almost a century for Boeing and Airbus in just eight years. You cannot develop the talent, expertise and knowledge and bring together hundreds of suppliers to make a commercial aircraft without the potential for major delays or even complete failure in such a short period of time,” explained Chao, the managing director of All In Consulting, based in Los Angeles.

On the other hand, since China’s needs for planes are limitless, why not try to build it? It is certainly a long and arduous journey, but if China never tries it, it will be forever forced to acquire its planes from foreigners.
“Chinese airlines have successfully operated Western jetliners for more than three decades, and Chinese companies have played the role of successful suppliers of jet engine components to GE Aviation and CFM International for several years.Therefore, China has made significant strides in establishing a modern aerospace capability. Taking that into account, no wonder that GE believes that China will achieve its objectives in developing viable commercial air transport vehicles. But it takes time and continual investment. Fortunately, China is clearly committed to achieving its goal,” concluded Rick Kennedy, a Media Relations manager from GE.

All in all, it’s going to be a long haul for COMAC. Let’s also remember that before export sales are possible, the C919 must be examined, thoroughly tested and certificated by the North American and European regulators.

 

[syed putra]

China COMAC C919 is similar to the 30 years older base design of the A320neo
United Aircraft's and COMAC's eventful year


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January 03, 2018, by By Bjorn Fehrm - Leeham Co
Both United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and COMAC got their single-aisle airliner projects into flight test during 2017. The MC-21 and C919 had their first flights within less than a month of each other, with the Chinese C919 first at 5th of May, followed by the Irkut MC-21 on the 28th of May.
Superficially the aircraft and projects are similar. Both are 150-220 seat single aisle projects in the mold of Airbus' A320neo and Boeing's 737 MAX programs. Looking a bit closer, they are different. One is extending the state of the art in several areas; the other is playing safe.
Flight-testing starts for C919 and MC-21
The less experienced crew behind the C919 flew first, but then the MC-21 team took the lead with continued test flights in August.
The C919 stayed on the ground until September 28th and then after one flight had another hiatus until November 3rd. The long delays between first flight and following flights for both projects show the immaturity of the programs by first flights. Similar Western projects fly again within a couple of weeks.
One can conclude both first flights were "Monkey off your back" events, more so for the Chinese project than the Russian. Aircraft ground testing and instrumentation for the C919 and MC-21 were not at the level where continued flight-testing was safe or meaningful after a first cautious hop.
It's possible to fly a test aircraft safely early in the design cycle, as long as speed and altitude are low. The critical danger for a flight test campaign is aerodynamic flutter, an aerodynamic/structural resonance that can break wings and stabilators in seconds. Such resonances only occur when the speed is raised.
The pace of the projects flight-testing shows the necessary ground vibration testing and aircraft instrumentation for these and other tests were not ready in May. Irkut continued the flight-testing in August and kicked it into high gear from October. COMAC is still cautious with flying. Mid-November the C919 had completed five test flights.
C919 and MC-21 technology
The C919 is developed by a country who's only developed the regional ARJ21 airliner before. The state AVIC organization, from which COMAC was spun off, has developed a few indigenous fighter aircraft after license-producing Russian designs, but no operational airliners except for ARJ21.
The ARJ21 was modelled closely after the license produced McDonnell Douglas MD80. It was developed by a consortium of AVIC companies, called ACAC. After COMAC was created to handle civilian airliners, the ACAC and its ARJ21 were 2009 assimilated into COMAC.
The C919 is a prudent design. It's closely modelled after Airbus A320 with similar technology. The avionics side has Ethernet-based IMA architecture instead of the older point-to-point design on the A320 and the Fly-By-Wire is digital, but otherwise, the C919 is similar to the 30 years older base design of the A320neo.
The MC-21 is not a copy of a Western design. It advances the state of art in cabin standards and structures. The fuselage has a circular cross-section which is 0.11m wider than the A320/C919 and 0.27m wider than the 737. It allows a 24-inch-wide aisle where passengers can pass each other or a flight attendant with a serving trolley.
The MC-21 is also the only civil airliner with a Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer (CFRP) wing-box which has been produced with Resin infused dry fibre and then cured in an oven instead of an autoclave. The CFRP wing-box broke shortly before reaching Ultimate load (150% of the highest in-service load) in the spring but passed the test in November, after a 25kg reinforcement.
The MC-21 avionics and Fly-By-Wire use the same technology as the C919, now made by Russian vendors (the C919 technology has Western origin).
The projects use the same modern Western engines as the A320neo and 737 MAX. The C919 is standardized on the A320neo's LEAP-1A engine, now called LEAP-1C. The MC-21 uses the Pratt & Whitney PW1100G engine from the A320neo, now called PW1400G.
Russia is developing an alternative for the PW1400G, the Aviadvidgatel PD14. We have analyzed this engine here.
New widebody

 

[tun_dr_m]

The exploitation monopoly and reckless arrogance of Boeing is ending.

China has the most significant and world highest potential market for jetliners, definitely will be controlled by their own domestic product.

Further, they got the strength and technology and production capacity to rapidly expand. They also have the capital.

In the reversed way, they have the choice and power of rejection, to sideline Chow Ang Moh products.

Further in the reversed way, the Chow Ang Moh Boeing MAGA themselves big time.

I am betting that Chow Ang Moh in their biggest panic and desperation hurry to resume their grounded 737 Max, and will soon fall off the sky again, and world confident will be completely wiped off for once and for all for their products. The lawsuits will bankrupt them.

Sky belongs to China.

 

[Tony Tan]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...grounded-until-august-says-airline-trade-body

Boeing 737 Max won't fly again before August, says airline trade body
Plane grounded after two crashes likely to remain grounded into peak season

Gwyn Topham Transport correspondent
@GwynTopham
Wed 29 May 2019 17.33 BST Last modified on Wed 29 May 2019 19.45 BST



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An Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 Max 8 sits grounded at Bole international airport in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Photograph: Mulugeta Ayene/AP

The Boeing 737 Max aircraft will not return to the skies before August, according to the head of aviation’s main trade body.
The 737 Max was grounded by regulators in the wake of two crashes, and although manufacturer Boeing has been working on a fix to allay safety concerns, it is likely to remain out of service for another 10 to 12 weeks, into peak season for many airlines.
Alexandre de Juniac, the chief executive of the International Air Transport Association, said the timing would depend on regulators, but he hoped to see a unified global timetable for the model’s reintroduction.

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The grounding of the 737 Max came first in China and then Europe before the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) eventually followed suit, after a crash in Ethiopia in March that killed all 157 people on board. It was the 737 Max’s second disaster in five months, after 189 people were killed in Indonesia in October.

Speaking in Seoul ahead of the association’s annual meeting, De Juniac said airlines were not expecting a return to service within the next 10 to 12 weeks: “But it is not our hands. That is in the hands of regulators.”

Iata is planning a summit meeting between airlines, regulators and Boeing in July to discuss a coordinated timeline to restore the 737 Max to commercial flying, De Juniac said. “We hope that [the regulators] will align their timeframe,” he said.

The 737 Max disasters have ignited tensions between regulators on either side of the Atlantic, amid concerns over the FAA’s relationship with Boeing, including the degree of self-certification.

Ethiopia chose to send the data recorders from the crash to safety investigators in Paris, and the European Union Aviation Safety Agency has indicated it would carry out its own assessment of the 737 fix, rather than rely on the FAA.

According to Reuters, sources at ICAO, the UN aviation agency, believe the FAA will approve the 737 Max again as soon as late June.

US operators United Airlines, American Airlines and Southwest Airlines, early customers of the model sold as a more fuel-efficient iteration of the 737 shorthaul workhorse, have removed the planes from their flight schedules until early to mid-August.

De Juniac said prolonged grounding was “taking its toll” on airlines. Although Iata expects its 290 airline members to be recording a 10th consecutive year of aggregate profit, he said the 737 was adding to headwinds including “rising costs, trade wars and other uncertainties [that] are likely to have an impact on the bottom line”.

Figures for air freight releasedon Wednesday by Iata showed a 4.7% year-on-year decline in April. De Juniac added: “It is clear that trade tensions are taking their toll on the cargo industry.”




https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/s...stay-grounded-beyond-this-year-indonesia-says




Boeing 737 Max could stay grounded beyond this year, Indonesia says

A Boeing 737 Max 9 airplane on the tarmac at the Boeing Renton Factory in Renton, Washington on March 12, 2019.PHOTO: AFP
Published
May 21, 2019, 12:06 pm SGT
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JAKARTA (BLOOMBERG) - Indonesia signalled it may ground Boeing Co's 737 Max until next year, as the regulator remains wary about a plane that crashed twice and killed nearly 350 people.
Even after the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) clears the plane to return to service, Indonesia will make its own determination based on its review of the proposed fixes, Director-General of Civil Aviation Polana Pramesti said in an interview in Jakarta on Monday (May 20).
Pilots will also have to undergo more stringent mandatory training than in the past before they are allowed to fly the jet, she said.
All in all, there are "lots of issues" and it is unclear whether the plane will be able to fly in Indonesia this year, she said. "I can't predict whether we will keep using the aircraft."
The comments underscore how far Boeing has to go before its fastest-selling plane returns to the skies globally, even as the biggest US exporter finalises an update to a software system implicated in both crashes.
The chief executive officer of Southwest Airlines Co, the largest operator of the Max, said last week that he was hopeful the jet could come back to service this summer.


A Boeing representative didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

Though Indonesia isn't as large as China or Europe, South-east Asia's biggest economy is still a key regional aviation market, as the government is planning the construction of 25 airports as part of an ambitious proposal for more than US$400 billion (S$550 billion) in building projects over the next five years.

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Before Ethiopian Airlines crash, Boeing resisted pilots' calls for aggressive steps on 737 Max
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List of nations that have grounded Boeing 737 Max
But there's more to why Indonesia has a big say when it comes to Boeing's infamous plane. Two of the country's carriers are among the biggest customers of the aircraft and Lion Air Flight 610, which killed all 189 people on board, was the first Max to crash when it plunged into waters off Indonesia in late October.
Less than five months later, a second Max crashed in Ethiopia, triggering a global grounding of the plane and investigations into how the aircraft was approved to fly.
"Boeing has to assure us, the regulators, that the aircraft is safe," said Ms Pramesti, the first woman to head Indonesia's civil aviation authority. "They also have to regain confidence from the pilots and the airlines, then educate the Indonesian customers."
BOEING PROBE
Though pilots who had flown the previous 737 model used to be able to fly the newer Max by completing a course on an iPad for an hour or two, that's not going to cut it now, according to Ms Pramesti.
Pilots in Indonesia will have to go through more stringent training, including a requirement to train in sophisticated flight simulators, she said.
Ms Pramesti may join her staff at a meeting in Texas this week, where the FAA is hosting foreign counterparts to discuss the steps needed to get the Max airborne again.
Meanwhile, Boeing is battling to restore confidence among its customers, particularly in Indonesia.
State-owned PT Garuda Indonesia has said it is seeking to convert its US$4.8 billion order for 49 Boeing 737 Max 8 jets to other models due to concerns its customers no longer want to fly in the aircraft.
The co-founder of privately-owned PT Lion Mentari Airlines has said he wants to cancel US$22 billion in orders for the aircraft because of what he says is Boeing's unfair reaction to the October crash.
In the US, the FAA has come under fire for approving a Boeing feature known as the Manoeuvring Characteristics Augmentation System, or MCAS, and for giving the Chicago-based planemaker too much authority to oversee itself.
After a sensor on both the doomed 737 Max jets malfunctioned, MCAS continually pushed down the aircraft's nose until pilots lost control. Boeing is redesigning the system to make it less prone to operate in error. The FAA may receive the proposed software fix for the grounded 737 Max as soon as this week.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-seen-as-airplane-non-grata-by-wary-travelers

Boeing 737 Max Seen as ‘Airplane Non Grata’ by Wary Travelers
By
Mary Schlangenstein

June 5, 2019, 1:58 AM GMT+8


U.S. airlines have their work cut out for them in trying to coax frightened travelers back onto Boeing Co.’s 737 Max once a worldwide grounding ends.


At least 20% of U.S. travelers say they will definitely avoid the plane in the first six months after flights resume, according to a study led by consultant Henry Harteveldt. More than 40% said they’d be willing to take pricier or less convenient flights to stay off the Max. A separate UBS Group AG survey found that 70% would hesitate today to book a flight on Boeing’s best-selling jet.


“Travelers aren’t merely scared of the 737 Max, they’re terrified of it,” Harteveldt, president of Atmosphere Research Group, said in the report, which was released Tuesday. “The 737 Max is, for now, an ‘airplane non grata’ -- a plane passengers do not want to fly.”




The surveys underscore the challenge looming for Boeing as it seeks to regain public trust after two deadly crashes and a global flying ban that’s nearing the three-month mark. Boeing is finalizing a software fix for a flight-control system malfunction linked to the accidents, as well as proposed new pilot training. Regulators in the U.S. and other countries say there’s no timeline for when the plane will resume flights.



Nader Says Boeing 737 Max Is Flawed And Should Never Fly Again
Only 14% of U.S. passengers would definitely fly on a 737 Max within six months of its return, according to the online study for Atmosphere of 2,000 U.S. airline passengers from April 27 to May 1.
Participants in the 38-question survey had to have taken at least one round-trip flight for business or personal reasons during the previous 12 months. They were selected at random in the U.S. by a third-party market-research firm that operates a global consumer panel of more than 100 million people.

Boeing declined to comment on the Atmosphere and UBS reports, but pointed to recent remarks by Chief Executive Officer Dennis Muilenburg.
Rebuilding Trust
“We’ll do everything possible to earn and re-earn that trust and confidence from our airline customers and the flying public in the weeks and months ahead,” Muilenburg said. “We take the responsibility to build and deliver airplanes that are safe to fly and can be safely flown by every single one of the professional and dedicated pilots all around the world.”

Southwest Airlines Co., the largest operator of the Max, and United Continental Holdings Inc. have said they will let fearful passengers switch from the Max to flights on other aircraft with no fee. The CEOs of both carriers also have said they plan to be on initial Max flights once it returns to service. The companies, along with American Airlines Group Inc., haven’t commented further on how they will convince potential travelers that the Max is safe to fly.
Responses to the Atmosphere survey showed passengers have lost confidence in Boeing since the crashes, and were 10 times more likely after the grounding to describe the Chicago-based planemaker as irresponsible, arrogant and unsafe.
The survey showed 63% of business travelers and 65% of leisure passengers aren’t sure if they would want to fly the Max a year after its return to service. But in a positive sign for Boeing, that indicates most travelers will eventually consider boarding the plane if the manufacturer and the airlines succeed in restoring traveler confidence, Harteveldt said.




https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...extends-boeing-737-max-cancellations-11610214


American Airlines extends Boeing 737 MAX cancellations

FILE PHOTO: American Airlines Boeing 737 MAX jets sit parked at a facility in Tulsa, Oklahoma, U.S., May 10, 2019. American Airlines/Handout via REUTERS/File Photo

09 Jun 2019 10:26PM (Updated: 09 Jun 2019 11:39PM)
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FORT WORTH, Texas: American Airlines Group said Sunday (Jun 9) it is extending cancellations of about 115 daily flights into September due to the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX.
The largest US airline had previously said it was cancelling flights through Aug 19 after the Boeing plane was grounded worldwide in March following two deadly crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia.


American Airlines said Sunday it is extending those cancellations through to Sep 3. Boeing has yet to complete a certification test flight and formally submit its software upgrade and training changes to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for approval.
Boeing said Sunday it is continuing "to work with global regulators to provide them the information they need to certify the MAX update and related training and education material and safely return the fleet to service."
The world's largest airplane manufacturer said it is "partnering with our airline customers to maintain their planes in storage and will provide ‘entry into service’ type support once they are cleared to resume commercial operation."
The FAA declined to comment on Sunday.


The FAA's acting chief, Dan Elwell, told reporters last month he does not have a specific timetable to unground the 737 MAX.
The plane was grounded in March following a fatal Ethiopian Airlines crash just months after a similar Lion Air disaster in Indonesia which together killed 346 people.
Southwest Airlines and United Airlines have cancelled flights into August because of the grounding of the 737 MAX.
Asked last month it is realistic that the 737 MAX could be flying again by August, Elwell declined to be specific.
"If you said October I wouldn’t even say that, only because we haven’t finished determining exactly what the training requirements will be," Elwell said. “If it takes a year to find everything we need to give us the confidence to lift the (grounding) order so be it."
Global airlines that had rushed to buy the fuel-efficient, longer-range aircraft have since canceled flights and scrambled to cover routes that were previously flown by the MAX.
Boeing hopes the software upgrade and associated pilot training will add layers of protection to prevent erroneous data from triggering a system called MCAS, which was activated in both the planes before they crashed.
Source: Reuters