Will FTs be caught Dead in a property downturn? And who bears the risk?

We have been talking about FTs driving up prices of resale HDB flats. So, if the FT after making the necessary calculation, thinks it's more worth taking the risk of buying a resale flat then just renting it. With the simple notion that the price of resale HDB will keep rising and that means that their stay in Singapore is going to be totally rent free when they had to pack and go, sell it for a profit that covers agent fees and bank interest?

That is, they are speculating that future HDB resale price will keep rising. Otherwise, why do they make this choice?

Should the price tumble and presumably some of them may be retrench or being replace by yet cheaper FTs, they would be caught, and if it is, will it be a flight as seen in Dubai where here, they abandon HDB?:(

Isn't the bank here taking a big risk by lending? Or their loan came from HDB? Where is the safety net then?

singapore will feel the property bubble burst.
i am sure of it.

japan bubble last more than 10 years, they call it the lost decade, singapore will feel the lost century if they let PAP run down the property market.

dun blame FT for everything lah, do you have the statistics on the percentage of FTs buyers for our HDB flats? probably a very low figure...

want to blame blame on those greedy singaporeans!

VIBGYOR said:

dun blame FT for everything lah, do you have the statistics on the percentage of FTs buyers for our HDB flats? probably a very low figure...

want to blame blame on those greedy singaporeans!

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Many of them speculated on Condominiums and that is the greatest risk they took as compared to HDB. If property bubble burst, hell broke loose and you beg these Foreign trashs will create scenes in Singapore. When such day comes, LKY will start blaming Singaporeans again.

VIBGYOR said:

dun blame FT for everything lah, do you have the statistics on the percentage of FTs buyers for our HDB flats? probably a very low figure...

want to blame blame on those greedy singaporeans!

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If only the govt. remove the smokescreen between Singaporean and PR.

Likewise how do you know it's a low figure and bought by greedy local Singaporean, do you have figures that we are greedy?

Rising HDB property prices during our deepest recession is a phenomenon, I would rather err to the side that there are foreign elements involved. And it is during this time when loads of locals are being replace by FTs. Does the displace locals have the power to buy?

Glaringly said:

If only the govt. remove the smokescreen between Singaporean and PR.


Rising HDB property prices during our deepest recession is a phenomenon, I would rather err to the side that there are foreign elements involved. ?

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It is so simple, cut the supply of houses, and let in more FTs to buy HDBs. Supply and demand. Like it or not, you have to fork out more money to buy only.

Glaringly said:

We have been talking about FTs driving up prices of resale HDB flats. So, if the FT after making the necessary calculation, thinks it's more worth taking the risk of buying a resale flat then just renting it. With the simple notion that the price of resale HDB will keep rising and that means that their stay in Singapore is going to be totally rent free when they had to pack and go, sell it for a profit that covers agent fees and bank interest?

That is, they are speculating that future HDB resale price will keep rising. Otherwise, why do they make this choice?

Should the price tumble and presumably some of them may be retrench or being replace by yet cheaper FTs, they would be caught, and if it is, will it be a flight as seen in Dubai where here, they abandon HDB?:(

Isn't the bank here taking a big risk by lending? Or their loan came from HDB? Where is the safety net then?

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I share your concerns.
I wonder if the local financial institutions have taken the necessary safeguards to protect themselves against individual foreigners who may borrow from them and default if the asset prices turn against them or something negative happens in their personal situation.

The foreigner and PR can just RUN ROAD and the banks will be fucked. They will come back with a new passport with new name when economy up again to snatch our jobs without the penalities while we will ganna the banks charge us zero interst to pay for the loan burst!

Glaringly said:

We have been talking about FTs driving up prices of resale HDB flats. So, if the FT after making the necessary calculation, thinks it's more worth taking the risk of buying a resale flat then just renting it. With the simple notion that the price of resale HDB will keep rising and that means that their stay in Singapore is going to be totally rent free when they had to pack and go, sell it for a profit that covers agent fees and bank interest?

That is, they are speculating that future HDB resale price will keep rising. Otherwise, why do they make this choice?

Should the price tumble and presumably some of them may be retrench or being replace by yet cheaper FTs, they would be caught, and if it is, will it be a flight as seen in Dubai where here, they abandon HDB?:(

Isn't the bank here taking a big risk by lending? Or their loan came from HDB? Where is the safety net then?

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This is just some of my thinking.

I believe that the current pricing of HDB increase is not just a Uniquely Singapore issue, but more of a GLOBAL problem.

From my observations, the housing pricing in Singapore is skyrocketing, and likewise in Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Hainan, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Beijing, just to name a few places...

The HDB increase may not really be caused by FTs alone... when Banks have too much money in them, but no where to loan, this can be a big problem.

Even if the FTs sell off their HDB, and go back home, they will also find similar problems, their home country's properties may be higher than before...

But really, the pricing of HDB should be the job of the Government to control, but the MIWs are just happy to see that it's going up and up and away... with no consideration of how the next generation of Singaporeans could afford the expensive housing....

But of course, this is what they want, when you are married, and own a HDB, perpetually you are in debts, and you are GLUED to Singapore to pay for HDB until you old man...

For the HDB pricing, it's has got nothing to do with FTs, but everything to do with the Government of Singapore...

I'm thinking that the Singapore Government should consider having a HUGE DISCOUNT for SINGAPOREANS, for their 1st HDB flat, say something like 50% of the MARKET VALUE, and this would encourage people to stay in Singapore...

Singapore have become too commercial, and too expensive to stay, forcing people to go out... and when some FTs come from RICH COUNTRIES, they may perhaps think it's a cheaper deal... especially from Hong Kong, the housing pricing is really rediculous.

Think for the people, and you win the people's heart, and soul... think for the coffers of the country, you only get angry citizens wanting to go to search for greener pastures....

Everyone here need to take a reality pill and wake up. Do u really think that FTs are causing the surge in property prices? Do you think that these FTs which work for so much less wages than our native born Sinkies can afford to buy a HDB flat, much less qualify for one? Do u think that white collared FTs are so stupid to buy a flat here when they can earn as much as they can and retire early in prosperity back in their home town, instead of getting tied down with bank mortgage, conservancy fees, mandatory upgrades, etc.?

This surge is price is cause simply by the govt. They own all the land, they are the market maker, and hence they can set the price. HDB deliberately slows down their building rate of construction, carries out all these fucking BTO exercises, take out housing inventory from the market (by leasing them as dorms to FTs), and voila, u have a pend up demand. With the pend up demand, HDB can simply charge more prices and suckers will buy. In the 1980s, HDB were building around 40,000 units a year. Now with such a rapid increase in population, they are building less than 1/2 this number. WTF? I guarantee u if the HDB puts 40,000 units into the market within the next year, prices will drop rapidly. But will they do that? Of course not, its more profitable for them to do this way.

Its unbelievable to me that morons here cannot see this.

It's no secret that FT can purchase a resale flat.

Suppose if you are a white collar FT with family in tug and plan to spend a couple of years here, don't you want to think about the purchasing option other then renting? Your rants about retiring early in prosperity to their homeland, doesn't it sounds contridicting?

Are you certain that the demand is not due to the large influx of FTs, has our HDB planning really gone that bad. Think about it, don't just shoot.

methinks HDB should tweak the laws to accelerate people with family to get flats earlier...than married singles without kids...

that will help to boost the local population growth without artificially attracting any tom dick or harry into the country...

The below was lifted from TOC today, so it seems not only the FTs are buying up resale HDB, they are also keeping it when they have move on and only sell it when the price is right.

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/01/hdbs-reply-on-flats-for-foreigners-a-conflict-of-interest/

3) SB on January 14th, 2010 3.08 am
My ex-colleague who is a Singapore PR (a Indian national) came to work in Singapore several years ago. He bought a HDB flat in Bedok then. Not long after, he managed to get a job in US and left Singapore for good. But he kept his flat here, renting it out to other foreigners. He just came back last month for a vacation and sold off his flat at a record high price and made a tidy profit.

My question is : why do our gahment allow these foreigners to buy HDB flats which are supposed to be subsided for citizens ?? Every flat they buy deprive the locals an the opportunity to own their own flat.

Glaringly said:

It's no secret that FT can purchase a resale flat.

Suppose if you are a white collar FT with family in tug and plan to spend a couple of years here, don't you want to think about the purchasing option other then renting? Your rants about retiring early in prosperity to their homeland, doesn't it sounds contridicting?

Are you certain that the demand is not due to the large influx of FTs, has our HDB planning really gone that bad. Think about it, don't just shoot.

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U are such a moron. Look around u. How many FTs have their family in tow? U still have not answered the question I raise which is "How can an FT working for much less than a native born Sinkie afford to buy a flat?" The large majority of FTs cannot afford to buy a flat even if they were inclined to do so. Among the FTs that can afford to buy flats, namely the white collars or execs, how many actually have their familes here in S'pore? And of those that have their families here, how many have actually bought flats? If they are paid well enough, do they buy private condos or HDB flats? I would imagine private condos. Therefore, U are looking at much less than 10% of all FTs that have actually bought flats. Do the maths.

Glaringly said:

The below was lifted from TOC today, so it seems not only the FTs are buying up resale HDB, they are also keeping it when they have move on and only sell it when the price is right.

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/01/hdbs-reply-on-flats-for-foreigners-a-conflict-of-interest/

3) SB on January 14th, 2010 3.08 am
My ex-colleague who is a Singapore PR (a Indian national) came to work in Singapore several years ago. He bought a HDB flat in Bedok then. Not long after, he managed to get a job in US and left Singapore for good. But he kept his flat here, renting it out to other foreigners. He just came back last month for a vacation and sold off his flat at a record high price and made a tidy profit.

My question is : why do our gahment allow these foreigners to buy HDB flats which are supposed to be subsided for citizens ?? Every flat they buy deprive the locals an the opportunity to own their own flat.

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This thambi got lucky, the fact is many Sinkies and foreigners have lost money too in recent years on their flats.

Papsmearer said:

U are such a moron. Look around u. How many FTs have their family in tow? U still have not answered the question I raise which is "How can an FT working for much less than a native born Sinkie afford to buy a flat?" The large majority of FTs cannot afford to buy a flat even if they were inclined to do so. Among the FTs that can afford to buy flats, namely the white collars or execs, how many actually have their familes here in S'pore? And of those that have their families here, how many have actually bought flats? If they are paid well enough, do they buy private condos or HDB flats? I would imagine private condos. Therefore, U are looking at much less than 10% of all FTs that have actually bought flats. Do the maths.

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You are obviously clueless, it's a waste of my time. Thank you.

Glaringly said:

You are obviously clueless, it's a waste of my time. Thank you.

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U cannot defend your position, say so. Don't call people clueless. U have still not explain how a wave of FTs displacing locals with their low wages can afford to buy a HDB flat?

just an anecdote. there are 4 FTs in the office i work in, each earning around 5.5k (2 indians, 2 chinaman). I found out that all 4 just recently bought newly launched condos which cost 600-800K each... (how I found out? each got loans through an ex-colleague who now works in a bank). so they now have two properties each, one condo & one hdb.

It could have been worse...*hee*hee*

Papsmearer said:

This thambi got lucky, the fact is many Sinkies and foreigners have lost money too in recent years on their flats.

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You mean condos? People are talking about HDBs.