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Thread: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

  1. #921
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Sally,

    there is no bond for genuine migrant family. You might be dealing with Mindef Contact centre staff who are an outsourced outfit and are not fully briefed on migrant families who left when the kids were young or kids born overseas and have applied for SC. This category is usually small in number. Most are parents sending kids overseas from a young age. If you are comfortable, PM me the name of the person who you dealth with last. I will provide the right contact who is in the unit that deals with it. If not ask the staff to refer the matter to their supervisor on the basis that you are a migrant family and are not required to sign a bond. We had a number of cases in the past who had the same issue. The supervisors are nice enough and should put you in touch with the correct person.

    Yes if the kid is born overseas and is entitled to be SC, do not apply to be SC is you have migrated. It will easier to apply for PR which is freely given but not for renounced cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sally2212 View Post
    Hi Charlie,
    Looks like yours is also electronic EP. I spoke to mindef, they say online will require a bond if more than 2 years of EP requested, maybe they updated the policy. Anyway, mindef email a deferment form to complete. I just did that and emailed them. They say I will hear from them in about a week on the decision for deferment pending renunciation. I asked them if parents are also required to renounce, they say no. They only evaluate the child's situation, not the parents.

  2. #922
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Kids below the age 16.5 yrs are not required by law to serve NS by law even they wanted to. So logically Mindef can't grant you deferment for something which has not occurred. The deferment until 21 kicks in at 16.5 yrs. The information is to tell migrant families that the kid who is he below age 16.5 is on the deferment path.

    All Singapore kids are granted deferment at 16.5 yrs until 18 years if they are still in school. Poly I think is 19 yrs. Overseas based Singapore students not on the migrant path are also given deferment if they produce school proof up till 18.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie99 View Post
    In Nov 2015, I received two letters from MINDEF Singapore:

    A. National Service Deferment ( 4 paragraph letter)
    1. .... XYZ to be granted deferment from full-time NS till his age of 21,. pending renunciation of his Singapore citizenship.
    2. [ about if he changes his mind about renouncing his citizenship or is found to have enjoyed the privileges of Singapore citizenship, his deferment will be revoked. ]
    3. We are enclosing the letter of of approval of Exit Permit to enable him to remain outside Singapore till his age of 17.
    4. As he is required to register for NS at the age of 16.5 years, we wil be contacting you for the necessary documentation in due course. Once he has registered for NS, we will issue him another Exit Permit, valid till his age of 21.

    B. Application for Exit Permit
    Application has been acceded to. You have been issued an electronic Exit Permit valid from Nov 2015 to Oct 2018, pending renunciation of Singapore citizenship.

  3. #923
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    Sally,

    there is no bond for genuine migrant family. You might be dealing with Mindef Contact centre staff who are an outsourced outfit and are not fully briefed on migrant families who left when the kids were young or kids born overseas and have applied for SC. This category is usually small in number. Most are parents sending kids overseas from a young age. If you are comfortable, PM me the name of the person who you dealth with last. I will provide the right contact who is in the unit that deals with it. If not ask the staff to refer the matter to their supervisor on the basis that you are a migrant family and are not required to sign a bond. We had a number of cases in the past who had the same issue. The supervisors are nice enough and should put you in touch with the correct person.

    Yes if the kid is born overseas and is entitled to be SC, do not apply to be SC is you have migrated. It will easier to apply for PR which is freely given but not for renounced cases.
    I should have followed this alternative, not apply for citizenship, but if and when they are adults and wish to apply for PR.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Happy Chinese New Year to Everyone !!
    新年快乐,心想事成!


  5. #925
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    Thumbs up Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Actually, every modern person should own dual citizenship. It's like the key to future success in the life path.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBert View Post
    Actually, every modern person should own dual citizenship. It's like the key to future success in the life path.
    Depends what country's citizenship you are talking about.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by nayr69sg View Post
    Depends what country's citizenship you are talking about.
    I would say that Canadian, Swiss, Australian, NZ, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish are all desirable.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBert View Post
    Actually, every modern person should own dual citizenship. It's like the key to future success in the life path.
    Opt for a Scandinavian passport ...those are the places where people really live their lives as it was meant to be. Pay your taxes and live worry free as the state will fulfill its part of the social contract to provide for the essentials (also the most expensive) in life. Your take-home pay is truly yours to keep for other pursuits.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Long time reader, first time posting on this forum. I hope someone can give me some advice.

    My daughter is turning 21 this year. When she was born, I registered here with the High Commission, so she is Singapore by descent. So now is decision time for her whether to take up Singapore Passport or surrender her Australian one. She is on final year and judging from her results, she will be doing a straight PhD next year in Australia. The thing is, she likes both Singapore and Australia. She has up to just before she turns 22 to decide on her citizenship.

    The SG government said that to be accepted as a Singaporean, she first has to annul her Australian passport. But that does not guarantee that the SG government will give her the SG passport. So there will be a period of 2-3months or more, where she will be stateless and where ICA will process the application. To me that is a dangerous process, where one is in no man land.

    Also, if she is pursuing PhD next year, I can imagine the uni will be asking for her citizenship status and thereby determining her fees, her eligibility and others maybe.

    So, if she said no to the SG government, would she be able to work in Singapore next time? I presumed the answer is no. Or would she be able to get a PR? (I doubt it) I hope some reader here who have had similar experience can share their story with me.

    thank you

  10. #930
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Will get the experts to reply asap.

    Quote Originally Posted by quentin View Post
    Long time reader, first time posting on this forum. I hope someone can give me some advice.

    My daughter is turning 21 this year. When she was born, I registered here with the High Commission, so she is Singapore by descent. So now is decision time for her whether to take up Singapore Passport or surrender her Australian one. She is on final year and judging from her results, she will be doing a straight PhD next year in Australia. The thing is, she likes both Singapore and Australia. She has up to just before she turns 22 to decide on her citizenship.

    The SG government said that to be accepted as a Singaporean, she first has to annul her Australian passport. But that does not guarantee that the SG government will give her the SG passport. So there will be a period of 2-3months or more, where she will be stateless and where ICA will process the application. To me that is a dangerous process, where one is in no man land.

    Also, if she is pursuing PhD next year, I can imagine the uni will be asking for her citizenship status and thereby determining her fees, her eligibility and others maybe.

    So, if she said no to the SG government, would she be able to work in Singapore next time? I presumed the answer is no. Or would she be able to get a PR? (I doubt it) I hope some reader here who have had similar experience can share their story with me.

    thank you

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  11. #931
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Firstly congratulations on your daughter's progress. Good also to know that people are still keeping ties.

    Secondly there is no legislation in Singapore for holding more than one citizenship. Nobody has ever been charged for this over 50 years of existence as it is not an offence. Though the govt does not encourage it for various reasons and thats their official stand.

    The law however does not allow Singaporeans to renounce their citizenship before the age 21. This is meant for males for NS evasion.They threw in the female gender when there were some thought in our early years by the founding fathers and Israelis were our military advisors that female conscription might come into play in later years. (Isreal conscripts both male and female)

    The govt will not pursue females to make the choice. Tell your daughter to keep both. She is free to work in Singapore and I have friends daughters working in Singapore holding both. One even worked for Temasek and is till working in Singapore. Tell her to use her Australian passport and citizenship for consistency.

    There are some strait-laced Singaporeans who would turn up to ICA for clear direction and the official line will be given out and some poor soul will give up one.

    The males however are different for NS reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by quentin View Post
    Long time reader, first time posting on this forum. I hope someone can give me some advice.

    My daughter is turning 21 this year. When she was born, I registered here with the High Commission, so she is Singapore by descent. So now is decision time for her whether to take up Singapore Passport or surrender her Australian one. She is on final year and judging from her results, she will be doing a straight PhD next year in Australia. The thing is, she likes both Singapore and Australia. She has up to just before she turns 22 to decide on her citizenship.

    The SG government said that to be accepted as a Singaporean, she first has to annul her Australian passport. But that does not guarantee that the SG government will give her the SG passport. So there will be a period of 2-3months or more, where she will be stateless and where ICA will process the application. To me that is a dangerous process, where one is in no man land.

    Also, if she is pursuing PhD next year, I can imagine the uni will be asking for her citizenship status and thereby determining her fees, her eligibility and others maybe.

    So, if she said no to the SG government, would she be able to work in Singapore next time? I presumed the answer is no. Or would she be able to get a PR? (I doubt it) I hope some reader here who have had similar experience can share their story with me.

    thank you

  12. #932
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Will ICA allow a dual citizen to renew Singapore passport online? Any success story to share?

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by Hock View Post
    Will ICA allow a dual citizen to renew Singapore passport online? Any success story to share?
    You should not declare you have dual citizen when you are applying for Spore passport..Otherwise, ICA is going to ask you to give up. It is a open secret many emigrants are keeping quite about holding 2 passport.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    Firstly congratulations on your daughter's progress. Good also to know that people are still keeping ties.

    Secondly there is no legislation in Singapore for holding more than one citizenship. Nobody has ever been charged for this over 50 years of existence as it is not an offence. Though the govt does not encourage it for various reasons and thats their official stand.

    The law however does not allow Singaporeans to renounce their citizenship before the age 21. This is meant for males for NS evasion.They threw in the female gender when there were some thought in our early years by the founding fathers and Israelis were our military advisors that female conscription might come into play in later years. (Isreal conscripts both male and female)

    The govt will not pursue females to make the choice. Tell your daughter to keep both. She is free to work in Singapore and I have friends daughters working in Singapore holding both. One even worked for Temasek and is till working in Singapore. Tell her to use her Australian passport and citizenship for consistency.

    There are some strait-laced Singaporeans who would turn up to ICA for clear direction and the official line will be given out and some poor soul will give up one.

    The males however are different for NS reason.
    thank you for taking the effort to reply.

    Given that my daughter has a Singaporean by descent "birth certificate" and not a Singapore passport, what should she do.


    Does she
    a. ignore all ICA requests to turn up?
    b. surrender her Singaporean by descent status?

    Of course, if she can have both passports, it would be great, but I think it is impossible given she does not have one yet.
    If she does either (a) or (b) or both, would she be able to work in Singapore? Or would she be ostracised?

  15. #935
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    She is a Singapore citizen albeit without a Singapore passport. To my knowledge ICA does not send any request to turn-up or there is any need to do so. Have there been any request to do so? None of the kids that I am familiar and in a similar situation get any notice except the males. Some get Ministry of Education grant statement on a yearly basis.

    There is no issue getting work in Singapore but to make things easier, do it as OZ citizen. No she will not be ostracised. In fact the work environment in Singapore seem to treat foreigners especially those from the 1st world country better.

    Until recent years, getting a Singapore passport was not an issue but now they want you to declare if you hold any other foreign citizenship. So best to avoid it. And she does not need 2 passports.

    I am sure there will be a day when Singapore moves to accept foreign citizenship. Australia too did not recognise or allow foreign citizenship and it was written law until 2004 when they overturned it, a trend that most countries have moved to.

    Quote Originally Posted by quentin View Post
    thank you for taking the effort to reply.

    Given that my daughter has a Singaporean by descent "birth certificate" and not a Singapore passport, what should she do.


    Does she
    a. ignore all ICA requests to turn up?
    b. surrender her Singaporean by descent status?

    Of course, if she can have both passports, it would be great, but I think it is impossible given she does not have one yet.
    If she does either (a) or (b) or both, would she be able to work in Singapore? Or would she be ostracised?

  16. #936
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    She is a Singapore citizen albeit without a Singapore passport. To my knowledge ICA does not send any request to turn-up or there is any need to do so. Have there been any request to do so? None of the kids that I am familiar and in a similar situation get any notice except the males. Some get Ministry of Education grant statement on a yearly basis.

    There is no issue getting work in Singapore but to make things easier, do it as OZ citizen. No she will not be ostracised. In fact the work environment in Singapore seem to treat foreigners especially those from the 1st world country better.

    Until recent years, getting a Singapore passport was not an issue but now they want you to declare if you hold any other foreign citizenship. So best to avoid it. And she does not need 2 passports.

    I am sure there will be a day when Singapore moves to accept foreign citizenship. Australia too did not recognise or allow foreign citizenship and it was written law until 2004 when they overturned it, a trend that most countries have moved to.
    Thanks again for the reply

    She has not received any formal letter from ICA about her citizenship. I am just pre-empting what she should be doing.

    OK, that is fab. I will not stir the hornet's nest.

    cheers..

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by quentin View Post
    Thanks again for the reply

    She has not received any formal letter from ICA about her citizenship. I am just pre-empting what she should be doing.

    OK, that is fab. I will not stir the hornet's nest.

    cheers..
    What about Medishield Life premiums? Did you get letters asking for her Medishield life premiums?

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by nayr69sg View Post
    What about Medishield Life premiums? Did you get letters asking for her Medishield life premiums?
    yes, i get all that. It comes out of my account while I was in Singapore for a couple of years. I am still paying mine from my MediSave account.

    I prefer to pay in silent than to protest.

  19. #939
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Happy to assist. Just in case she comes to Singapore and keen to join the elite Admin Service, she can do so with no issues. However after 2 years of so they might ask her to give up her Oz citizenship. If that is the case, OZ law allows a former citizen to reclaim her or his OZ citizenship by stating that she had to give it up to take a career role. However it is allowed for one time only.

    Quote Originally Posted by quentin View Post
    Thanks again for the reply

    She has not received any formal letter from ICA about her citizenship. I am just pre-empting what she should be doing.

    OK, that is fab. I will not stir the hornet's nest.

    cheers..

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