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Thread: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

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    Default Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    I am actually a believer that all major religions will evolve overtime for the better as they go thru horrific and unspeakable phases. Hinduism, its caste system, wife forced to jump into the funeral pyre, Christianity and their well documented oppression pogroms, abuses and harm that it brought to the World, etc.

    The Muslims currently do have a choice with the advent of the internet, a more open society and a greater freedom to voice one's views. They can speak up and challenge those that have hijacked their religion and caused and continue to cause mayhem to the lives of innocent people including women and children. The beheadings, the wholesale rape of Yazidi women and girls plus kept as sexual slaves in this century are one of many well documented atrocities that cannot be blamed away to deviants alone.

    What did the Yazidis do other than follow a belief that was not Islamic in a region of Muslims. I have yet to see a single Muslim organisation stand for the Yazidis and the genocide we see before us.

    The suicide bombs, the unnecessary and immensely expensive cost of providing safety at airports, major transport hubs, etc and its accompanying inconvenience to the whole world, the change in how we even place dustbins in public places is a burden that has been unfairly placed on others is not something that will build communal bridges or a truly global village.

    Every Muslim who expects everyone else to do the clean-up for the mess that their religion have spawned is beyond belief. Muslims fleeing to the West and asking for handouts and not fleeing to their Muslims neighbours speaks for itself. Its a disgrace. I personally would not show my face in public if I was a follower of such a religion.

    The price is ultimately paid by those who come into this world as Muslims. They maybe totally innocent and fully qualified and would be absolute assets to any entity but they will not get jobs that they deserve because their parents, and those Muslims before them have failed to correct the wrongs of their own religion. The constant BS of claiming that the Koran has been misinterpreted while praying 5 times a day, donning Arab outfits is not going to change how the rest of the World sees what is going.

    As a muslims please don't come into this forum and roll out the usual nonsense or defending the indefensible. The Malays are a wonderful race that have a heart of gold. They will share a crumb even before if it means not having something for themselves. And its in their DNA and nothing to do with Islam. Their great misfortune is that they ended up with Islam when the music stopped.

    When will this silence end?

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    What has destroyed Islam is oil. If Middle East didn't have oil, Saudi Arabia and other oil rich Arab states will be forced to modernise along with Islam. Or they will be stuck in the middle ages without significant global influence.

    The problem is that with oil, it makes it easy for Arab states to modernise without doing much. Saudi Arabia is spending billions of dollars spreading their salafi Islam globally.

    Now Malays from both side of the causeway are trying to mimick Arab culture.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    I am actually a believer that all major religions will evolve overtime for the better as they go thru horrific and unspeakable phases. Hinduism, its caste system, wife forced to jump into the funeral pyre, Christianity and their well documented oppression pogroms, abuses and harm that it brought to the World, etc.

    The Muslims currently do have a choice with the advent of the internet, a more open society and a greater freedom to voice one's views. They can speak up and challenge those that have hijacked their religion and caused and continue to cause mayhem to the lives of innocent people including women and children. The beheadings, the wholesale rape of Yazidi women and girls plus kept as sexual slaves in this century are one of many well documented atrocities that cannot be blamed away to deviants alone.

    What did the Yazidis do other than follow a belief that was not Islamic in a region of Muslims. I have yet to see a single Muslim organisation stand for the Yazidis and the genocide we see before us.

    The suicide bombs, the unnecessary and immensely expensive cost of providing safety at airports, major transport hubs, etc and its accompanying inconvenience to the whole world, the change in how we even place dustbins in public places is a burden that has been unfairly placed on others is not something that will build communal bridges or a truly global village.

    Every Muslim who expects everyone else to do the clean-up for the mess that their religion have spawned is beyond belief. Muslims fleeing to the West and asking for handouts and not fleeing to their Muslims neighbours speaks for itself. Its a disgrace. I personally would not show my face in public if I was a follower of such a religion.

    The price is ultimately paid by those who come into this world as Muslims. They maybe totally innocent and fully qualified and would be absolute assets to any entity but they will not get jobs that they deserve because their parents, and those Muslims before them have failed to correct the wrongs of their own religion. The constant BS of claiming that the Koran has been misinterpreted while praying 5 times a day, donning Arab outfits is not going to change how the rest of the World sees what is going.

    As a muslims please don't come into this forum and roll out the usual nonsense or defending the indefensible. The Malays are a wonderful race that have a heart of gold. They will share a crumb even before if it means not having something for themselves. And its in their DNA and nothing to do with Islam. Their great misfortune is that they ended up with Islam when the music stopped.

    When will this silence end?
    Those who grew up with Malays will attest to their generosity and hospitality. However, they suffer the same problem as evangelical Christian. The local pastor/ Imam has great sway on their thinking. There is no central authority on doctrine. Many Muslims also share a common narrative of that they are oppressed and that Jews are the bane of the world. However, evangelical Christians don't resort to terrorism but their thinking can be scary. Look at how much support Trump gets from this group. I do not know enough about Islam to figure out why they produce the vast majority of terrorists today. But they derive financial support from somewhere.
    Last edited by Satyr; 11-08-2017 at 07:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Oil gave them a false sense of security. They thought Allah bestowed oil on them as a gift for their belief and a weapon to used against the non-believers. The actual owners of the oil and their children can be found in the playgrounds of the West and also in the Ivy League. These are not shared with 99% of their followers. Look at Rihanna's latest beau and he resides and runs a business in Saudi Arabia.

    Even dumb fucks in the kamung are proud of the fact that Allah gave them oil when they did not get a penny from it. Look at Petronas that has rescued numerous failed Malaysian government entities over the years. Every Sunday when you watch Formula 1 and see the Petrona sponsored Mercedes and Hamilton in the drivers seat, you can see the Malaysian cronies and their families in their hospitality suite. And Ahmad in his Felda land has no idea that his pension fund was used to buy a 3 star hotel in London for price that could have bought a 5 stat hotel as he makes his way to the Mosque to pray.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelton65 View Post
    What has destroyed Islam is oil. If Middle East didn't have oil, Saudi Arabia and other oil rich Arab states will be forced to modernise along with Islam. Or they will be stuck in the middle ages without significant global influence.

    The problem is that with oil, it makes it easy for Arab states to modernise without doing much. Saudi Arabia is spending billions of dollars spreading their salafi Islam globally.

    Now Malays from both side of the causeway are trying to mimick Arab culture.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Wrong!

    It is Christians being stupid and foolishly expected Muslim to follow their mistakes.

    Love is foolish and won't have any chance.
    元宝蜡烛

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    I am actually a believer that all major religions will evolve overtime for the better as they go thru horrific and unspeakable phases. Hinduism, its caste system, wife forced to jump into the funeral pyre, Christianity and their well documented oppression pogroms, abuses and harm that it brought to the World, etc.
    All major religions take their cue from their central figures. For Buddhism, it is Buddha. For Christianity, it is Jesus, followed by his 12 disciples and paul. For Islam, it is Muhammad and his companions.

    The character of the religion's central figure will tell you enough of the religion's nature.

    Buddha was a rich man who turned his back on his wealth. He spent a lot of his time mediating and teaching.

    Jesus spent most of his known adult life preaching and conducting "miracles". His disciples were known for being preachers. They didn't lead crusades, start wars, pogroms or trade in slaves.

    Muhammad was a different man at different times. He was a preacher, merchant, slave owner, warlord, ruler. He taught his followers things about honesty. At the same time, he also killed his critics, sold people into slavery, carried out caravan raids. After his death, his companions started an era of great military conquests and also fought against each other.

    So what sort of message are muslims suppose to learn when they study the central figures of Islam?

    Distorted Buddhist and Christian teachings lead to war and slaughter. Distorted islamic teachings led to war or to peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal
    The Muslims currently do have a choice with the advent of the internet, a more open society and a greater freedom to voice one's views. They can speak up and challenge those that have hijacked their religion and caused and continue to cause mayhem to the lives of innocent people including women and children. The beheadings, the wholesale rape of Yazidi women and girls plus kept as sexual slaves in this century are one of many well documented atrocities that cannot be blamed away to deviants alone.

    What did the Yazidis do other than follow a belief that was not Islamic in a region of Muslims. I have yet to see a single Muslim organisation stand for the Yazidis and the genocide we see before us.
    Muslims support muslims regardless the reason. Period.

    Practically every muslim speaks out against Israel and demands a boycott of Israel over persecution and slaughter of the Palestinians. Yet, not a single muslim organization speaks out against the following

    a) slaughter and rape of hindus in Pakistan by blasphemy mobs, and of hindus in east pakistan

    b) slaughter of west papuans by indonesian soldiers

    c) slaughter of black christian and animists in sudan by arab sudanese soldiers

    d) slaughter of thousands of yemeni arabs by saudi soldiers

    e) slaughter of tens of thousands of palestinians by jordanian soldiers

    When muslim soldiers or militants do the slaughtering, muslims elsewhere will always turn the other way. When Israel or American forces shoot dead a single muslim, there is a uproar for human rights.


    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal\
    Every Muslim who expects everyone else to do the clean-up for the mess that their religion have spawned is beyond belief. Muslims fleeing to the West and asking for handouts and not fleeing to their Muslims neighbours speaks for itself. Its a disgrace. I personally would not show my face in public if I was a follower of such a religion.
    What you said is incomplete.

    Muslims do expect everyone else to clean up their mess. But when you step in, they will ask you why are you interfering in muslim affairs? They will tell you that because you don't possess a theology degree in arabic or islamic studies, you need to STFU and let only the ulemas handle it.



    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal
    The constant BS of claiming that the Koran has been misinterpreted while praying 5 times a day, donning Arab outfits is not going to change how the rest of the World sees what is going.

    As a muslims please don't come into this forum and roll out the usual nonsense or defending the indefensible.
    This is a strange claim because muslims are the only group that hosts annual koran recitation competitions. Select muslims who are formally recognized for their ability to recite the entire koran are given the title of 'hafiz'. So, it is strange that they can on one hand brag about their ability to memorize the koran, and yet on the other hand, easily dismiss their problems due to "misinterpretation" of quran. Again, to intepret the quran, you need to be fluent in classical arabic, the arabic which the quran was written in.

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal
    The Malays are a wonderful race that have a heart of gold. They will share a crumb even before if it means not having something for themselves. And its in their DNA and nothing to do with Islam. Their great misfortune is that they ended up with Islam when the music stopped.

    When will this silence end?
    That's the malays that I grew up with decades ago. The malays from decades ago were the ones who gave me a very favourable impression of Islam.

    Those malays have sadly passed on, and are now replaced by a growing group of intolerant ones who are very sympathetic to the aspirations of groups like al qaeda or isis, even if they do not assist those groups in any way yet.
    Do something meaningful. Join the grassroots. Peoples' Association all the way!

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Its difficult to address the multiple complexities of ethnicity and Islam around the World. So I will focus on our Malays.

    They need to rescue their community before all else. They need to recover their culture, their history and the Malays identity. The Arab and the Indian Muslim influences and incursion need to be excluded to save themselves. They also have to stop underselling themselves as a community and sulk that they cannot act. They also need to stop listening to Imans but to proven individuals amongst the Malays.

    They don't need to give up on Islam but do what all followers of faith do - control the zealots and mischievous who have interpreted things to their advantage to hold on to power and control over the masses.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTan View Post

    That's the malays that I grew up with decades ago. The malays from decades ago were the ones who gave me a very favourable impression of Islam.

    Those malays have sadly passed on, and are now replaced by a growing group of intolerant ones who are very sympathetic to the aspirations of groups like al qaeda or isis, even if they do not assist those groups in any way yet.
    Last edited by scroobal; 11-08-2017 at 11:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    I truly miss the Malays of the old world. Once I was with a grago friend who was visiting a friend at Batu Gajah unannounced. The moment the family saw us , they told the kids to catch a hen for lunch. It was an unbelievable fiesta. On another occasion I was in South Africa and someone wanted to visit a friend who was posted to a South African JV from Malaysia. When we arrived unannounced at this gated community where 5 Malaysian families, 4 Malays and 1 Chinese were housed. It was about 2.10pm and they have finished lunch. But they insisted on a doing lunch and everyone came over and introduced themselves. The ladies from the 5 households went about doing all things good about Malay food for their Singapore friends. We had a wonderful time.

    We are all had Malay friends that we had grew up with.

    And yes, we see what religion done to the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    Those who grew up with Malays will attest to their generosity and hospitality. However, they suffer the same problem as evangelical Christian. The local pastor/ Imam has great sway on their thinking. There is no central authority on doctrine. Many Muslims also share a common narrative of that they are oppressed and that Jews are the bane of the world. However, evangelical Christians don't resort to terrorism but their thinking can be scary. Look at how much support Trump gets from this group. I do not know enough about Islam to figure out why they produce the vast majority of terrorists today. But they derive financial support from somewhere.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Your last sentence is the key. Follow the trail and one begins to realise that its is a proxy fight using Islams and some ignorant people who genuinely think that they are doing it for Allah and God. The financiers are in the meantime fielding calls from their families who are in Harrods asking if they should buy 2 sets of furniture or just one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    I do not know enough about Islam to figure out why they produce the vast majority of terrorists today. But they derive financial support from somewhere.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    Your last sentence is the key. Follow the trail and one begins to realise that its is a proxy fight using Islams and some ignorant people who genuinely think that they are doing it for Allah and God. The financiers are in the meantime fielding calls from their families who are in Harrods asking if they should buy 2 sets of furniture or just one.
    And why do the financiers act that way? Were they coerced by foreign friends to keep the status quo and ensure a market for war toys?

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Extinct British Empire Pommies you get world peace.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    When malays were nice , they had their kampung land seized and confiscated by PAP or killed in the village by communist party of malaya.
    So its no more Mr nice guy.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Its no different to people who were born into wealth and privilege. These elites and minorities want to hold to their position of privilege. Takes the Saudi's, their forefathers conquered much of the Peninsular with the help of a conservative and austere form of Islam called Wahabbism. When the conquest was completed, the main man got rid of the Ikwan who were his ally and the true followers of Wahabbism. These rulers live in lifestyle totally different to their beliefs when they spent their regular holidays in the West.

    The religion provides the only legitimacy to their rule over the ignorant masses. Its was no different to the Popes of yesteryears who had immense political power over many nations and their rulers.


    Foreign powers know this and use this to their own advantage. Its no different to the current ruling party in India who have gained ascendency as they went back to Hinduism and now claim as the custodians of the Religion. One of their first acts is to burn a ancient mosque to embed their status. And religion is a powerful weapon to lead the ignorant masses.

    Quote Originally Posted by cocobobo View Post
    And why do the financiers act that way? Were they coerced by foreign friends to keep the status quo and ensure a market for war toys?

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    They spent their time thinking that religion will save them and lost their land. Its the same with the EP. They PAP build great mosque and they vote the PAP not knowing its the devil they need to stop listening. Set religion aside and get back the status as an equal partner and the custodians of their own country. Instead they wear the tudung, ape the Arabs, use religious excuses over eating concerns such as shared cooking utensils etc which makes it easier for others to take what ever dignity left from the community.

    Here is an example. I have seen a housewife who spent one hour haggling over $5k for a $800K over a private property while her new Honda was parked in front of the property. Her husband has no say. The deal was not done as the agents instructions was clear. The next couple that came within 10mins got the property. When you have idiots talking about cooking utensils, nothing will progress. The first couple is still in a HDB flat. They are relatives of mine and I occasionally remind the silly husband of the now $2.5M property .

    Quote Originally Posted by syed putra View Post
    When malays were nice , they had their kampung land seized and confiscated by PAP or killed in the village by communist party of malaya.
    So its no more Mr nice guy.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Muslims are targeted by the white US and coined as terrorist. 911 was faked by Bush Adminstration to destroy 7 ME nations target Gadafi Libya. Gaddafi wanted to peg his $ to gold.

    Federal Reserved issued IOU NOTES for petrol $. US went on to destroy Libya Iraq and Syria to stop them.

    Muslims are now revenge the white for their atrocity.

    Just wait for the Chinese military power rise the US and Pommies will taste their own medicine soon.

    No such thing as Muslim terrorists.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    Its difficult to address the multiple complexities of ethnicity and Islam around the World. So I will focus on our Malays.

    They need to rescue their community before all else. They need to recover their culture, their history and the Malays identity. The Arab and the Indian Muslim influences and incursion need to be excluded to save themselves. They also have to stop underselling themselves as a community and sulk that they cannot act. They also need to stop listening to Imans but to proven individuals amongst the Malays.

    They don't need to give up on Islam but do what all followers of faith do - control the zealots and mischievous who have interpreted things to their advantage to hold on to power and control over the masses.
    If u talk about the Malays, frankly most of us here in spore knew about the evil deeds of the terrorists the like of ISIS. We do not support and do strongly condemn terrorism as mentioned many times in the Quran.

    As for Imams and as most of u know the sermons are all prepared by MUIS in Spore. Even if they arent prepared by Muis, most of the sermons were all about becoming a better Muslims, responsibility towards parents and the community.

    As for Malays in Msia or Indon, i cant comment much but only to say those countries are big especially Indon. Its not easy to monitor or control some of the extremist Islamic group tere. Most are backward, jobless. They would do anything just to survive. Tats where some political parties would take advantage of those group. And they are many by the millions. Yes, most are Muslims poor and uneducated and easily sway by extremists Imam who also double up as warlords. Very complicated if were to discuss about Indon politics.
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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    The problem is that the authorities like too keep everyone quiet when it comes to politics. They also are not sure if they encourage the Malay community speak their mind it might affect them at the polls. People take silence as tacit approval because Isis and other rogue lot use Islam as their justification.

    The MUIS authorised sermons are only heard by Muslims and not the general public and so no one call tell.

    The recent case involving the Indian Iman only came to light because of a Eurasian convert so the assumption is that those born into Islam are in agreement with the Iman. Note that a Malay lecturer from NUS attacked the Eurasian convert for revealing it. So the rest of Singapore will remain suspicious.

    Indonesia will always remain tough to handle, agree on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by whoami View Post
    If u talk about the Malays, frankly most of us here in spore knew about the evil deeds of the terrorists the like of ISIS. We do not support and do strongly condemn terrorism as mentioned many times in the Quran.

    As for Imams and as most of u know the sermons are all prepared by MUIS in Spore. Even if they arent prepared by Muis, most of the sermons were all about becoming a better Muslims, responsibility towards parents and the community.

    As for Malays in Msia or Indon, i cant comment much but only to say those countries are big especially Indon. Its not easy to monitor or control some of the extremist Islamic group tere. Most are backward, jobless. They would do anything just to survive. Tats where some political parties would take advantage of those group. And they are many by the millions. Yes, most are Muslims poor and uneducated and easily sway by extremists Imam who also double up as warlords. Very complicated if were to discuss about Indon politics.

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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    The problem is that the authorities like too keep everyone quiet when it comes to politics. They also are not sure if they encourage the Malay community speak their mind it might affect them at the polls. People take silence as tacit approval because Isis and other rogue lot use Islam as their justification.

    The MUIS authorised sermons are only heard by Muslims and not the general public and so no one call tell.

    The recent case involving the Indian Iman only came to light because of a Eurasian convert so the assumption is that those born into Islam are in agreement with the Iman. Note that a Malay lecturer from NUS attacked the Eurasian convert for revealing it. So the rest of Singapore will remain suspicious.

    Indonesia will always remain tough to handle, agree on that.
    Hmm....maybe to have it "transparent", have loud speakers fixed at d mosques? So every lectures..sermons..all can be heard by everyone. Good idea? Also has to apply to churches too. But sinkies dont cm n kpkb abt noise ya.

    Talk abt trust? Even now as we r discussing a samster here fm d majority race already mentioned Malays wont hesitate gettg rid of ur race. See? The stigma tere? Hes still living in d 60s n i m not surprise he will tell his chdn how evil d Malays then n now
    Last edited by whoami; 13-08-2017 at 02:35 AM.
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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    Quote Originally Posted by whoami View Post
    Hmm....maybe to have it "transparent", have loud speakers fixed at d mosques? So every lectures..sermons..all can be heard by everyone. Good idea? Also has to apply to churches too. But sinkies dont cm n kpkb abt noise ya.

    Talk abt trust? Even now as we r discussing a samster here fm d majority race already mentioned Malays wont hesitate gettg rid of ur race. See? The stigma tere? Hes still living in d 60s n i m not surprise he will tell his chdn how evil d Malays then n now
    I trust this sort of Malay-Muslims a lot more to maintain a harmonious society. The islam that they practice is generally a lot more peaceful and suitable for a multi-racial society.



    .

    I have far less trust in this sort of Malay-Muslims. Many of us also believe that they are sympathetic to the causes and aspiration of militant islam, which spawns all sorts of radical groups including al qaeda, militant islam in aceh, and of course, piracy, and of course, ISIS. These are the same liars who claim that islam is not racist, but on the other hand, show support for apartheid racist policies that favour malay-muslims.





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    Default Re: Why Muslims have failed Islam and made it the subject of hate and ridicule.

    I prefer present Malays. More r educated n hold good positions in their work place. Though far fm excellence compare with their Non Malay counterparts, it does improve past 5 decades.

    N john tan. U better respect our EP Halimah
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