Chitchat UK completely lost on what to do with homegrown Islam

The answer to the Manchester Massacre - lets widen the security net at major events and pay attention to close by transports nodes as they are an ideal killing zone.

These guys are still political correct. Here are the things that some countries do much better than others and certainly so much better than EU.

1. They know that religious extremists do not evolve in a vacuum. There is always of period of nurturing and influencing from wayward preachers and religious groups.

2. Only allow registered preachers and religious groups to conduct prayers and sermons. And this is done by thorough vetting and monitoring.

3. Board of governors for places of worships should sign a binding guarantee for actions committed by members of the their congregation in the area of religious transgression. These can be mitigated if the board reports wayward individuals.

4. Immediately close down all places of worships and all preachers that have been associated with these extremists actions the moment an act of terror occurs until clean bill of health is given.

5. Start deporting and cancelling citizenship of naturalised citizens who have transgressed in the area of religion with zero tolerance.

Note that the first mosque to express sympathy for those that died and condemned the bomber is the mosque where occasionally his father led the prayers and he attended. They should completely close the mosque as they obviously failed in their duties.

Registered mosques and preachers are supporting such groups. It's a matter of whether they do it tacitly or openly. Mosques in muslim majority countries like Malaysia and Pakistan are not known for their tolerance and peaceful stance either. The key is demographics. Once they have enough numbers, the peaceful verses are abrogated and the intolerant verses are explicitly stated repeatedly.

UK and similar targeted countries by IS should have our beloved Internal Security Act (ISA).

Often you read that they have suspected this or suspected that potential terrorists but were unable to take preventive action against them. They scored 'own goals' through their love for so called human rights and democracy.

Zikapore is right to keep the ISA.

[If someone uses a knife wrongly to carry out murder, it does not mean that knives are bad tools. Similarly, ISA was abused by the dictator (now in hell) against those who disagreed with him, it does not mean that ISA is bad as a tool to safeguard zikapore national security.]

Reddog said:

UK and similar targeted countries by IS should have our beloved Internal Security Act (ISA).

Often you read that they have suspected this or suspected that potential terrorists but were unable to take preventive action against them. They scored 'own goals' through their love for so called human rights and democracy.

Zikapore is right to keep the ISA.

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Only the potential terrorists, which number in their hundreds or thousands, are put under surveillance. How about the tens or even hundreds of thousands of their sympathisers? It still boils down to demographics at the end of the day. It's the modern day weapon to permanently winning any war.

I agree. You need strong legislation to protect society.

Reddog said:

UK and similar targeted countries by IS should have our beloved Internal Security Act (ISA).

Often you read that they have suspected this or suspected that potential terrorists but were unable to take preventive action against them. They scored 'own goals' through their love for so called human rights and democracy.

Zikapore is right to keep the ISA.

[If someone uses a knife wrongly to carry out murder, it does not mean that knives are bad tools. Similarly, ISA was abused by the dictator (now in hell) against those who disagreed with him, it does not mean that ISA is bad as a tool to safeguard zikapore national security.]

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scroobal said:

The answer to the Manchester Massacre - lets widen the security net at major events and pay attention to close by transports nodes as they are an ideal killing zone.

These guys are still political correct. Here are the things that some countries do much better than others and certainly so much better than EU.

1. They know that religious extremists do not evolve in a vacuum. There is always of period of nurturing and influencing from wayward preachers and religious groups.

2. Only allow registered preachers and religious groups to conduct prayers and sermons. And this is done by thorough vetting and monitoring.

3. Board of governors for places of worships should sign a binding guarantee for actions committed by members of the their congregation in the area of religious transgression. These can be mitigated if the board reports wayward individuals.

4. Immediately close down all places of worships and all preachers that have been associated with these extremists actions the moment an act of terror occurs until clean bill of health is given.

5. Start deporting and cancelling citizenship of naturalised citizens who have transgressed in the area of religion with zero tolerance.

Note that the first mosque to express sympathy for those that died and condemned the bomber is the mosque where occasionally his father led the prayers and he attended. They should completely close the mosque as they obviously failed in their duties.

Click to expand...

It seems that you underestimate the Brits and their intelligence network. M15 and M16 are far from amateurs or had the wool pulled over their eyes. Their tentacles into the various communities are deeply entrenched. Given how cosmopolitan the country is there is no segment of society that has not been inflitrated - I have stopped being surprised long long ago. Ask the 4 dragons in Chinatown/Piccadilly or the Turks and Kosovans in North London or the Armenians in Ealing or Hasidic Jews of STamford Hill or the Ukranians up Norf in Liverpool or the Yemenis in Cardiff.

However, lone wolf types, born and bred in the country and for all purposes living the life of any other British born citizen (almost) in an island of 60 million is not always easy to foresee. IS were quick to claim responsibility but it is early days and details are being unravelled. What is of concern is that the US intelligence officials leaked the name of the perpetrator before the Brits did. It is faor to say every single intelligence service is struggling with the availability of material over the internet and a plausible means to track these. Even the Israelis can't. Neither can the German Bundesnachrichtendienst.

The IRA was never able to drive them out completely and there is a very good reason for that. Never Surrender is a slogan for both.

So I beg to differ on your perspective with regards to Her Majesty's services. They are not "completely lost" (for a moment I thought it was serial clickbaiter JohnTan's headline). Its all about optics.

Actually I have high regard for their intelligence services including and particularly GCHQ.

Intelligence Services are doing all the grunt work and the coverage and penetration and the running of network of operatives within the community is well established. They are let down by the lack of legislation, the ability to impose consequence management on those people and places that nurtured and led these wayward individuals. So instead of addressing the source of the problem because it is politically inconvenient they spend their time and resources following those who have already crossed the threshold.

Both Singapore and Malaysia have excellent control over preachers and mosques. The decision to fund our mosques in the late 70s was not a fluke. It makes monitoring so much easier. We deport wayward preachers at the drop of the hat.

We began monitoring channels to identify lone wolfs and it netted 2 young Singaporeans and one who was well educated who did not show their colours to their own community. They had indoctrinated themselves thru their engagement with the internet and access to prohibited materials.

The 3 young and academically bright schoolgirls from Tower hamlet who left for Syria and lost their lives ( at least 2 are confirmed) was recruited by a known Isis female from the UK thru social media.

The solution is political and requires the political will to execute. It cannot rest on the shoulders of the Intelligence Services. And in the case of IRA, it was the very same - the lack of a political solution. And there was no political will. The govt and the people of Britain generally had no desire to hold on to a small patch of Ireland but they did not how to extricate themselves politically.

gatehousethetinkertailor said:

You underestimate the Brits and their intelligence network. M15 and M16 are far from amateurs. Their tentacles into the various communities are deeply entrenched. Given how cosmopolitan the country is there is no segment of society that has not been inflitrated.

However, lone wolf types, born and bred in the country and for all purposes living the life of any other British born citizen (almost) in an island of 60 million is not always easy to foresee. IS were quick to claim responsibility but its early days. What is of concern is that the US intelligence officials leaked the name of the perpetrator before the Brits did.

The IRA was never able to drive them out completely and there is a very good reason for that.

So I beg to differ on your perspective with regards to Her Majesty's services. They are not "completely lost" (for a moment I thought it was JohnTan's headline). Its all about optics.

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As for Salman Abedi, the Manchester bomber, I am sure that he was born a decent soul but had personal issues. He became vulnerable and exploited by those behind the scenes.

Thus far the UK had 5 major and minor terror attacks and 13 or so unsuccessful attempts thwarted by the authorities. To date I have not seen a single instance where the people behind the scenes who were responsible for individuals behind the attacks being brought to justice, sanctioned or publicly identified.

The Indian Muslim gentleman known as "Osama" by fellow worshippers at Al Huda Mosque, off Sixth Ave and working as Condo Manager at Belmont Condominium in District 10 and responsible for brainwashing young men and planning the bombing of American targets under the JI flag in Singapore is still behind bars after 16 years with regular renewal of detention orders. He is now 67 years old. Now to mention that the authorities tore strips of the Al Huda lot.

You will never find that in the UK. They spend their time following the young naive people that have been turned by these cunning behind the scenes nefarious characters.

In the context of your clarifying comments I agree that there is a political impasse on how they are going to tackle this. Blair took a beating in 2006 when he tried to push 90 day detention without charges under the Terrorism Bill and now they only have 28 days. But society as a whole has evolved in such a way since the days of Thatcher and such tactics as arbitrary detention is certainly against the grain as the potential for abuse remains. This is the "first world" type democracy where a citizens rights (regardless of any other distinguishing features) is given due regards and process. In those terms there is no easy solution without sliding into given a government autocratic powers which the British will not (at last for those who bother to vote). The institutions for checks and balances have been nevertheless exploited by unscrupulous sorts and will continue to do so. This is not a society renowned for its subservience.

scroobal said:

Actually I have high regard for their intelligence services including and particularly GCHQ.

Intelligence Services are doing all the grunt work and the coverage and penetration and the running of network of operatives within the community is well established. They are let down by the lack of legislation, the ability to impose consequence management on those people and places that nurtured and led these wayward individuals. So instead of addressing the source of the problem because it is politically inconvenient they spend their time and resources following those who have already crossed the threshold.

Both Singapore and Malaysia have excellent control over preachers and mosques. The decision to fund our mosques in the late 70s was not a fluke. It makes monitoring so much easier. We deport wayward preachers at the drop of the hat.

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No need to talk about the 70s just recently a preacher was outed from a local mosque and his hate rhetoric was posed online and translated to english by a fellow muslim adam something about jews/christians and the authorities quickly deported him and he was forced to apologize.

Outlaw the fucking vile religion.
Test down all the Mosques.
Hang all the leader by piano wires.
Round up the rest and enslave them.
The old and he sick....cull or ship them off to Africa.
Now how's that for a final solution.

Yes, the first World struggles with it as can been in France and Belgium. The latter 2 are even in a worse shape as Isis fighter return for breaks, go back on the dole, give press interviews etc. Eventually they will have to retrace and take those steps. In the meantime 1 min silence at football games, flowers at the scene of the carnage and heroic speeches about being resolute will continue, security will be beefed up and sadly safe zones may eventuate.