Serious The only viable Foreign Policy for S’pore and why the PAP will not implement

rusty said:

Paranoid is the by product of too much boasting.
Brunei a rich nation run by arguably the richest man in the world, net worth USD20 billion, never boast or was unduly worried about being attacked by others. He just enjoys what he does in a country where people never heard of school fees, medical fees or taxes. He is not obligated to China nor US.
Singapore is too boastful...everything number one and the best.

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Brunei has oil.

The ones who have and are self assured enjoy life and do their own thing.

The ones who don't have and are insecure boast and always claim to be number one. USA is one such country. China is another. And surprisingly Singapore also wants to get in on that game.

rusty said:

Paranoid is the by product of too much boasting.
Brunei a rich nation run by arguably the richest man in the world, net worth USD20 billion, never boast or was unduly worried about being attacked by others. He just enjoys what he does in a country where people never heard of school fees, medical fees or taxes. He is not obligated to China nor US.
Singapore is too boastful...everything number one and the best.

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u raise a very good point. Brunei has much resources at risk of being taken. Not only oil, they also have a lot of natural gas deposits. Of all countries, they should be armed to the teeth with the highest defence spending in SE Asia. They are surrounded by Malaysia and Indonesia is not too far away from North Kalimantan. Of course, the Chinese are nearby building fake islands in the South China seas, yet they don't fear invasion. Even if an enemy sends a small commando force to abduct members of the Sultan's family, they will see a billion $ ransom paid to them. Before anyone say that they are surrounded by fellow muslim countries, therefore they are safe, that is a complete falsehood. just ask the Kuwaitis when they got invaded by Iraq. Just ask the Chadians when they got invaded by the Libyans. And yet, they are sensible enough that they don't interfere in anything at all. They are as close to neutral as they you get. They don't have to be caught in the middle between the US and China like we are.

nayr69sg said:

Yeah I guess that's what the British said about the Japanese in World War II.

Aiyah you are the smartest person in Singapore lah.

Last discussion/debate about the freehold vs leashold land you never replied after I summarily tore apart your delusional view that leasehold and freehold were the same.

I will put you in the winnipegjets category. Lunatic. Will no longer engage or discuss anything with you.

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Yes, its obvious that I am the smartest person here, because it sure ain't you. U are comparing 2 completely different things, the jap invasion and the possibility of Malaysian invasion. What would be the reason for Malaysia to invade us? because we are a non Islamic state while they are one? That is just such a stupid reasoning, but quite expected for some with shit for brains like you. You better realize first that 40% of the Malaysian population is NON ISLAMIC. They will have to convert, kill, or imprison every one of this 40% first before they can think of invading another non muslim state. And why not Invade Thailand if they are so keen to go after non Islamic states. Its bigger bang for their buck, singapore has no natural resources.

U summarily tore me apart? Really? I think I was the one who tore you a new asshole. U need to read my post, you fucking illiterate. I know the difference between leasehold and freehold. And I stated that as much. U are really shit for brains.

scroobal said:

We cannot be neutral. We are not sitting in the midst of Western Europe where our liberal neighbours will step in on our behalf. Switzerland operating out of Europe and surviving as a neutral country is a myth. We are also not like Kuwait in the Middle East where other Arabs and their oil dependents proxies will step in.

We are in a sea of Malays and the largest Muslim populous country is a few miles south of us. Singapore despite Tungku agreeing to vouch for and sponsoring our sovereignty with the UN is historically a Malay land. Anyone who thinks the British conquered and ruled the World thru consensus and mutually reciprocating treaties are simple minded.

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As usual, you only know how to talk shit. What is the alternative to neutrality? If we cannot be neutral, then what are our options? If we align ourselves with the US, we will get shit from the Chinese. If we align with the Chinese, we will get shit from the US. If we align with the Japs or Indians, they are not of any help to us. Our politicians are not smart enough to walk the middle line and play both sides. Look at how much ill will has gone on between us and China and the US last year. Its much better for us to check out and let the 2 big boys fight among themselves. A small weakling like us cannot stop or control or manage the fight.

[[[ 4)We have no natural sworn enemies, just like the Swiss. Countries like Israel cannot be neutral, because other countries are sworn to destroy them. We do not have such animosity towards us. ]]]

Papsmoo, you err seriously here. Remember: "Friend of my enemy is my enemy".

The pap openly and defiantly slapped all our Muslim neighbours (some 280 million around us) by aligning and inviting their arch enemy Israel PM to visit zikapore just a few days ago. A reminder that zikapore will forever continue ignore and defy the wishes of all Muslims ... since the last invited visit by the Israel President many decades ago. To hell with them.

We have no enemy? Or are you being subtle.

Papsmearer said:

Before anyone say that they are surrounded by fellow muslim countries, therefore they are safe, that is a complete falsehood. just ask the Kuwaitis when they got invaded by Iraq. Just ask the Chadians when they got invaded by the Libyans. And yet, they are sensible enough that they don't interfere in anything at all. They are as close to neutral as they you get. They don't have to be caught in the middle between the US and China like we are.

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The reasons why Iraq and Libya attacked Kuwait and Chad respectively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chadian%E2%80%93Libyan_conflict

There is always a reason for conflict to erupt. If Singapore continues boasting or belittle others she will have to spend more on defence.

As fare as our neighbors are concern, it very hard to have neutrality for the fact that we are seen as an outcast in the Muslim sea. Our foreign policy rest on how we manage our triangle relation with malaysia and Indonesia by constantly preventing the 2 bigger neighbors from collaborating against us. When relation was hostile with malaysia during Dr M era, we get friendly with Indonesia as hedge against malaysia. And now we are on not a very good term with Indonesia, we get closer to malaysia.

And yet there exist another bigger triangle relation with china and USA . A relation which have an entire different setting and require delicate balancing act and neutrality on our part. The strategy in the past and now is to depend on china for economic growth and USA for economic and security need. In a way how we manage the bigger triangle relation provide us an additional leverage against our 2 Muslim neighbors.

In times of conflict between the 2 giants , we are putting ourselves in a catch 22 situation. Are we making ourselves as a legitimate millitary target for china by providing logistical support to US during arm conflict with China? And when that happen, we can forget about depending on china economically. Which is why I think our millitary bases can only open it welcoming arms to USA during peacetime and keep the door shut to them in times of conflict with china. And in doing so, we are offending USA not forgetting our airforce are dependent on their spares supplies to fly.

So the best thing for us is still to prevent the 2 powers from going on a collision course instead of siding one against the other like what Lhl did recently.

Instead of opening our milliatry installations exclusively to USA, a better balancing act is to extend the same offer to Chinese navy to use our base as resupply stop enroute to Indian Ocean. Invite the Chinese navy to play a role in our regional fight against piracy. Let them established a presence here even though it might be mere symbolic.

nayr69sg said:

Still better than a bunch of Sinkies who keep voting a government that favours foreigners protects them gives them advantages and perks and screws it's own people. Meanwhile the Sinkies will complain on the streets in the forums but come election will still vote the PAP. A very interesting dynamic that one is. And all this going on in your own void decks (sorry don't have much backyards to talk about).

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not saying that its true but have you guys ever think that the elections are rigged??

nayr69sg said:

Europe has been taken over by the Muslims already. They are trying hard for North America now.

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Quite a statement - what constitutes "taken over"?:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/19/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/

http://www.muslimpopulation.com/Europe/

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ely-overestimate-muslim-population-poll-shows

And in Canada the population was estimated at about 3.2% of the population in 2011 (up from 0.1% in 1971): http://www.environicsinstitute.org/... of muslims in canada 2016 - final report.pdf

In the US, it was about 3.5m in 2015 (about 1%) of the population of around 320m: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/06/a-new-estimate-of-the-u-s-muslim-population/

The concept of neutrality and non-alignment went down the toilet with Nasser, Chou En Lai, Sukarno and Nehru. There will never be another Bandung Conference.

Alignment is never cast in stone but it is rooted in shared ideology and or philosophy. But the primary purpose is always security and the desire to safeguard sovereignty.

Its like good arguments - they cannot be replaced by profanities and poor powers of reasoning.

Papsmearer said:

As usual, you only know how to talk shit. What is the alternative to neutrality? If we cannot be neutral, then what are our options? If we align ourselves with the US, we will get shit from the Chinese. If we align with the Chinese, we will get shit from the US. If we align with the Japs or Indians, they are not of any help to us. Our politicians are not smart enough to walk the middle line and play both sides. Look at how much ill will has gone on between us and China and the US last year. Its much better for us to check out and let the 2 big boys fight among themselves. A small weakling like us cannot stop or control or manage the fight.

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No one expected Kuwait to be invaded - except Kuwait. They built up sizeable reserves and invested internationally and wisely. They unfortunately did not invest in deterrence and were overrun in 2 days. However the World stepped in as the Kuwaiti cabinet in exile in Cairo had the means to underwrite the 1st Gulf war. Every single penny was paid back to the coalition. It taught some ignorant people the meaning of deterrence and sufficient reserves.

And till today, no can clearly state the reasons for the invasion.

And agree on Najib and the move to an Islamic State.

aurvandil said:

The danger is real. The reaction to corruption and supression is often religion. The longer Najib clings to power, the more likely that Malaysia will become an Islamic state.

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The Israelis agreed to help after Egypt and India turned us down. They were not the first choice. But the decision to allow the visit by their President caught many in academia, policy makers and political pundits by surprise. It comes as close to waving a red flag to a raging bull. It was not necessary and the Israeli are smart enough to figure out why.

Reddog said:

[[[ 4)We have no natural sworn enemies, just like the Swiss. Countries like Israel cannot be neutral, because other countries are sworn to destroy them. We do not have such animosity towards us. ]]]

Papsmoo, you err seriously here. Remember: "Friend of my enemy is my enemy".

The pap openly and defiantly slapped all our Muslim neighbours (some 280 million around us) by aligning and inviting their arch enemy Israel PM to visit zikapore just a few days ago. A reminder that zikapore will forever continue ignore and defy the wishes of all Muslims ... since the last invited visit by the Israel President many decades ago. To hell with them.

We have no enemy? Or are you being subtle.

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nayr69sg said:

Still better than a bunch of Sinkies who keep voting a government that favours foreigners protects them gives them advantages and perks and screws it's own people. Meanwhile the Sinkies will complain on the streets in the forums but come election will still vote the PAP. A very interesting dynamic that one is. And all this going on in your own void decks (sorry don't have much backyards to talk about).

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Unfortunately, it does not appear that Singaporeans have ever considered not voting for the PAP.
They deserved the government that they elected.

mahjongking said:

not saying that its true but have you guys ever think that the elections are rigged??

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At one time I entertained that as a possibility. But during the 2006 GE I started talking to more people from the street. Then I realized how big a support the PAP had on the ground. All the everyday type folk all worship the PAP.

If you don't believe me, during next GE just volunteer to go knocking on doors with an opposition party. See all the responses you get from common day real people (not internet).

Charlie99 said:

Let just hope that the USA and Canada "smarten up",
and restrict, or better still, ban further Muslim immigrants and refugees,
because those who are already here, are able to sponsor their spouses and children.

If they wish to practise their ultra conservative "values" and do not comply with the Judeo-Christian values of USA and CANADA,
I hate to say it, but they should remain in their home countries.

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Hi Charlie99,

Meanwhile in liberal Quebec.....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-hospital-crucifix-threat-1.4003745

Who is the intolerant one? You go to a hospital called Saint-Sacrement hospital, which was founded by nuns in 1927. You see a crucifix hanging in the hospital and you demand that it be removed?

Liberals are the true blind ignorant ones who will become Muslim in the end.

nayr69sg said:

Hi Charlie99,

Meanwhile in liberal Quebec.....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-hospital-crucifix-threat-1.4003745

Who is the intolerant one? You go to a hospital called Saint-Sacrement hospital, which was founded by nuns in 1927. You see a crucifix hanging in the hospital and you demand that it be removed?

Liberals are the true blind ignorant ones who will become Muslim in the end.

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Very unfortunate.
If the Muslims wish to change Canadian institutions, they should return to their home countries, or the home countries of their parent(s) and grandparents.
With respect, Canada has no place for such Muslims, who must attend at a Canadian hospital, and yet complain or demand that the crucifix be removed.
I support the Quebekers vis-a-vis the Muslims.
They should not accept any more Muslim immigrants and refugees.
Our children were born at Toronto's Mount Sinai Hospital, but not St. Michael's Hospital, but are not offended that Mount Sinai Hospital has "many Jewish items, etc.".
More so, when Mount Sinai Hospital is an excellent hospital.

Charlie99 said:

Very unfortunate.
If the Muslims wish to change Canadian institutions, they should return to their home countries, or the home countries of their parent(s) and grandparents.
With respect, Canada has no place for such Muslims, who must attend at a Canadian hospital, and yet complain or demand that the crucifix be removed.
I support the Quebekers vis-a-vis the Muslims.
They should not accept any more Muslim immigrants and refugees.
Our children were born at Toronto's Mount Sinai Hospital, but not St. Michael's Hospital, but are not offended that Mount Sinai Hospital has "many Jewish items, etc.".
More so, when Mount Sinai Hospital is an excellent hospital.

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I am not too familiar with how things are done in Quebec. But from what I see in terms of their political base, they are very liberal and progressive both on the social and economic fronts.

nayr69sg said:

Who is the intolerant one? You go to a hospital called Saint-Sacrement hospital, which was founded by nuns in 1927. You see a crucifix hanging in the hospital and you demand that it be removed?

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If the hospital is getting funding from the government, then yes, that stupid crucifix must be removed! Removal of the crucifix is not just to appease the Muslims.

kryonlight said:

If the hospital is getting funding from the government, then yes, that stupid crucifix must be removed! Removal of the crucifix is not just to appease the Muslims.

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Hmm if you go by that logic of who pays gets to decide , then Quebec is broke. They have to rely on money from Alberta to run the province. But come talk about pipeline approvals through Quebec, Alberta has no say.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-police-threat-concordia-1.4004671

Quebec is a mess. I do not condone anti-Muslim attacks. But there is no smoke without fire. The Muslims in Quebec have pushed things too far.