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Thread: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

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    Default Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Yes, you heard it here on Sammyboy first


    Right or wrong, I am advancing my theory of Mistaken Identity based on what I have seen and heard so far from Terrex incident.

    I believe that China had thought that Taiwan was actually selling weapons to us, namely the Terrex AFVs, and therefore as a means to disrupt and embarrass Taiwan, they seized the Terrexes in Hong Kong. China knows that Taiwan has a sizeable army and military industry complex. They produce many of their own weapons and modify what they have. The Taiwanese would love to sell some of them weapons overseas to defray the cost of their military machine, but so far, unlike Israel, very little of their weaponry have been found overseas. Part of the reason would be the intense displeasure from Beijing towards any country that buys Taiwanese weapons. Such a country would face the full wrath of China’s economic and political sanctions which can be significant.


    Now imagine, that you are a China customs and port authority. Let’s remember that they are essentially customs officers and not military intelligence officers. It’s not common to station military intelligence officers, especially those with armour knowledge, at ports for the sole purpose of monitoring very rare instances of weapons transhipments through the port. Of course you notice that there are what appears to be Armour Vehicles, 9 of them, under tarpaulin cover on board the ship. They can’t fit into a container, so they are covered with this tarpaulin, completely covered with no part of the AFV exposed. Now armour identification for APC, IFV, and any type of wheeled armour vehicle is tough as it is without the vehicle being hidden under a cover of tarpaulin. I know this because this used to be my business. Wheeled IFVs, unlike tanks, all have basically the same lay out and the same basic dimensions. Unless stated in the manifest, there is practically no way to know what type of AFV it is just from looking at it from the outside under cover. I cannot imagine the run of the mill or even senior port officials in Xiamen (the first stop on the route) knowing what it is a Terrex just by looking at the covered AFVs.


    But what about the shipping documents? Wouldn’t that state what the vehicles are and who they belong to? It would accept that from all news media reports, there was some confusion over the shipping documents. This was never cleared up by any PAP official, but there was talk of missing documents, incomplete documents, etc. So what if the specific type of AFV is not anywhere on the documents or were not clearly stated? Even if the documents do state that it’s a Terrex, how would the China customs officers know it’s a Terrex? One AFV looks like another to them. They can google it, but the vehicle is so rare and not sold outside Singapore, they likely never have seen one or even heard of one. If I ask you what is an M113, or a BMP, likely you have an idea of what it is. The documents could say that it’s a Terrex, but how would they know for sure? In addition, such documents pertaining to arms sales are commonly forged, and in this case, there would have been no end user certificate as the shipping company is claiming this is not a sale.

    Coupled to this is the fact that not many Chinese citizens know that we train in Taiwan. I am sure the higher officials in Beijing are aware of this, and even a fair proportion of Taiwanese are aware of this. But the fact that Singapore trains in Taiwan with heavy weaponry and armour is definitely not common knowledge in China. A manifest indicating these Terrexes belong to Singapore, but the origin of the ship is from Taiwan, would certainly cause some skepticism. Perhaps the Xiamen port authorities conveyed their suspicions to the Hong Kong authorities who were the next stop.


    When the ship arrived in Hong Kong, they might have been already working on a theory that this was an arms sale from Taiwan to Singapore, and that it was disguised as a return of vehicles from training. But what vehicle could this be that the Taiwanese might sell? The answer is the CM-32 Clouded Leopard Taiwanese Infantry Fighting Vehicle (TIFV). This vehicle has the same dimensions as the Terrex because, surprise, surprise, they are developed by the same company Timoney of Ireland. Each vehicle is 7m long, and 2.7m wide. That is right, they have the exact same length and width, with the Terrex being slightly lower at 2.1m versus the CM-32 at 2.23m. From the ground up, if Hong Kong customs did measure the width and length, they would have found it to be the same as that of the Clouded Leopard. Height is much more difficult to measure accurately. Other then that the dimensions are exactly the same and under a tarp, very few military expert could tell the difference.

    When the Hong Kong customs finally removed the tarp to look at the AFVs, they saw the Taiwanese military markings on the AFV, specifically the license plate. So, put yourself in the place of Hong Kong customs.


    A)You have been tipped off by your counterpart in Xiamen that a suspicious shipment of AFVs from Taiwan is on its way to your port, possibly weapons sales to Singapore.


    B)The shipment originates from Taiwan but the manifest say they belong to Singapore and are Terrexes. As well, there is some questions that the shipping documents were incomplete or missing on top of all the confusion. You have no way of knowing they are Terrexes because the vehicles are completely covered in tarp. But the dimensions of the vehicles from outside looks almost exactly like those of the Taiwanese Clouded Leopard IFV. This would confirm the Xiamen tip off if they are indeed Taiwanese IFVs.


    C)Upon removing the tarp, you discover the Taiwanese military markings. For the simple reason that there should be English letters on the license plate of singapore vehicles as would be expected from an English speaking country, there are non. Instead, there is just one Chinese character followed by the numbers and all in blue. This further reinforces the Hong Kong suspicions that these are actually Taiwanese vehicles. i.e. looks the same, has the same dimensions as a known Taiwanese AFV, and has Taiwanese military markings on them.


    D)So, they go ahead and confiscate them, thinking that they have prevented an arms sales from Taiwan to Singapore and that they have put a dent in Taiwanese military sales.


    E)When it turns out that the AFVs were actually Terrex, Hong Kong now has egg on its face. Whether Beijing was informed by Hong Kong before hand is now brought into question. A quick return of the AFVs would confirm to the world that they made a mistake. SO, now in order to save face, they drag out the whole affair.


    Impossible to know externally whether these are SAF Terrex of ROCA Clouded Leopard:


    Externally the 2 IFVs are very similar in dimensions and lay out

    CM-32 Clouded Leopard


    Terrex


    Terrex in Hong Kong in taiwanese military license plate


    Terrex in SAF markings (license plate)



    Just my 2 cents
    Last edited by Papsmearer; 11-01-2017 at 08:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    I believe your 2 cents is worth much more than what the intel folks at Joint/SID can come up with.

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?




    Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong hit out at China saying that the country is no longer the middle kingdom.
    “In this new world, there is no country which is the middle kingdom. Nowadays, however strong an economy is, not all roads will lead only there.
    There will be other links between countries in Asia, with America, with Europe, and China will fit into this global network.”


    I am now of Burmese descent too.
    And I speak mix broken french, english and burmese now.

    Bonjour

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    TS should join mediacock as strip writer...

    might as well as the terrex were filled with national treasure from 國立故宮博物院 to be delivered to paris louvre

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    wat u heard is probly another spin wen ze earlier spin of prc has returned all spoils on ze quiet kena pichar lobang ...

    ... juz another 3.5224˘ worth ... (gst 7%, inflation 8% (2008) n tariff 21% (2008), 23.32% (2010), 9.8%(2011) incl.) ...
    fr n original, humble 2˘ ... u now got a whopping 3.5224˘ worth fr me! ...
    tis value is fully guaranteed (wun morning say dun guarantee & @ nite say guarantee) ...
    ...


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    octopus regina makes world cup 2014 predictions updated: 25jun

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Force 136 View Post
    I believe your 2 cents is worth much more than what the intel folks at Joint/SID can come up with.
    Thanks for saying so. Perhaps right now, some one at G2 is slapping their forehead saying, "so its not our fault after all, just a case of mistaken identity!". hahahahha
    Last edited by Papsmearer; 11-01-2017 at 05:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by cuckoldoolittle View Post



    Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong hit out at China saying that the country is no longer the middle kingdom.
    “In this new world, there is no country which is the middle kingdom. Nowadays, however strong an economy is, not all roads will lead only there.
    There will be other links between countries in Asia, with America, with Europe, and China will fit into this global network.”



    I guess china just
    reminded Gay Loong that there was a middle kingdom after all, and its alive and well in zikapore.

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    mistaken identity or not, faulty papers or incomplete paperwork are enough for seizure and stalling. try screwing up paperwork with mindef on ns deferment or exit permit and see if they close an eye on mistakes and let you go scot free.
    6.9 k's of sinkies: kopi, kaya toast, kueh kueh, kio kway, ktv, kpkb.

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by eatshitndie View Post
    mistaken identity or not, faulty papers or incomplete paperwork are enough for seizure and stalling. try screwing up paperwork with mindef on ns deferment or exit permit and see if they close an eye on mistakes and let you go scot free.
    both your and papsmearer's inputs are fair comment, inasmuch as mistaken identity and bureaucracy / paperwork / procedural lapses (and processes) not being adhered to, but question still remains as to how this impasse can be resolved amicably - kunt salah issue notwithstanding. sinkie's stand is just follow law while chinkie's stand is to stop all relations with roc, so somewhere and somehow - something has to give. ouch!

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Semaj2357 View Post
    both your and papsmearer's inputs are fair comment, inasmuch as mistaken identity and bureaucracy / paperwork / procedural lapses (and processes) not being adhered to, but question still remains as to how this impasse can be resolved amicably - kunt salah issue notwithstanding. sinkie's stand is just follow law while chinkie's stand is to stop all relations with roc, so somewhere and somehow - something has to give. ouch!
    if i'm chief mediator between these 2 parties not seeing eye to eye (in fact they look over each other on separate planes of awareness and existence), i would recommend a kumbaya free for all shootout at the ok corral - 9 terrex with roc military license plates squaring off using live ammo with 9 equivalent ifv's from prc on neutral terrain (abu sayyaf hotspot in the failippines). whoever cums out the winner gets to go home, with complimentary failippines military license plates.
    6.9 k's of sinkies: kopi, kaya toast, kueh kueh, kio kway, ktv, kpkb.

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by eatshitndie View Post
    if i'm chief mediator between these 2 parties not seeing eye to eye (in fact they look over each other on separate planes of awareness and existence), i would recommend a kumbaya free for all shootout at the ok corral - 9 terrex with roc military license plates squaring off using live ammo with 9 equivalent ifv's from prc on neutral terrain (abu sayyaf hotspot in the failippines). whoever cums out the winner gets to go home, with complimentary failippines military license plates.
    wahlan - liddat if push comes to shove, it's a no brainer and rocket science as to who'll come out tops and take the gal home

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Semaj2357 View Post
    wahlan - liddat if push comes to shove, it's a no brainer and rocket science as to who'll come out tops and take the gal home
    spoils are 69 rotten abalones as trophies.
    6.9 k's of sinkies: kopi, kaya toast, kueh kueh, kio kway, ktv, kpkb.

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    Thanks for saying so. Perhaps right now, some one at G2 is slapping their forehead saying, "so its not our fault after all, just a case of mistaken identity!". hahahahha
    So why cannot return immediately through diplomatic channel? Your theory is full of shit, like you!

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by eatshitndie View Post
    if i'm chief mediator between these 2 parties not seeing eye to eye (in fact they look over each other on separate planes of awareness and existence), i would recommend a kumbaya free for all shootout at the ok corral - 9 terrex with roc military license plates squaring off using live ammo with 9 equivalent ifv's from prc on neutral terrain (abu sayyaf hotspot in the failippines). whoever cums out the winner gets to go home, with complimentary failippines military license plates.
    Will kee chiu n all other ministars lead us to fight anywhere china name the place? More importantly will sg pool take bets

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    mistaken identity indeed,all their fears and conspiracies of Taiwan are unfounded,it turns out only the Singapore Armed forces are as stupid as to ship military equipment via some commercial carrier to a Chinese port of call.

    its like me planning a holiday to new york and me booking a flight on AA with stopovers in iraq,libya and iraq and when my plane becomes the next 9/11 or gets shot down by USS vincent,i go "oops".
    Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt.

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    I think they grabbed at the first opportunity to do a series of things when Singapore side screwed up on the logistics and handed them the vehicles on a platter by allowing it to go thru their territory.

    These series of things are to gut the vehicles to see the technology, its capabilities etc, its origin and if parts or added technology are coming from countries that were previously not known including Taiwan, to find anything inside the vehicles that indicates collaboration with the Taiwanese military or other allies. Plus the opportunity to embarrass and teach Singapore a lesson for their role over South China Sea and allow the growing presence of the US at Changi Naval base - use of submarine pens and recent stationing of Littoral assets.

    And why not if Singapore made it so easy. And how dumb are we to allow their public servants to attend the PAP Meet the People session in Chong Pang in the middle of all this.

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    Right or wrong, I am advancing my theory of Mistaken Identity based on what I have seen and heard so far from Terrex incident.
    Good write up. However, it appears to be based on an underlying and unfortunate stereotypical assumption that the Chinese are dumb and incompetent, that they have no intelligence apparatus to know what exactly is going on in Taiwan or with Taiwan and Singapore, the US or other countries. These are the same stereotypical assumptions the British empire held about the Japanese before they were trashed to bits by them (the Japanese).

    Through HUMINT (its agents posing as businessmen, journalists, etc) in Singapore, Taiwan and other countries, as well as other forms of intelligence gathering, China's intelligence and security apparatus, the Ministry of State Security, knows exactly what is going on in Taiwan, the number of Singaporean/foreign troops, equipment, frequency, type of training, etc.

    Once the Dauphin and his lapdogs showed China its true and consistent colours on SCS, its stance on the US vs China, China simply decided that they needed to be slapped. As one Chinese in Hunan remarked:

    “Should teach Singapore a lesson. If the tiger does not roar, Singapore will think we are a sick cat”.

    Prof Jin Yinan, a former director at the PLA's National Defence University stated this:

    “It’s inevitable for China to strike back at Singapore, and not just on the public opinion front. Since Singapore has gone thus far, we have got to do something, be it retaliation or sanction. We must express our discontent” and that Beijing should make Singapore “pay the price for seriously damaging China’s interests”.

    Behind the false bravado and mind-numbingly stupid and vacuous talk of "international law" and "sovereign immunity" designed for the gullible Singaporean public, the pseudo-white Dauphin, that dumb Hen and their lapdogs understand (hopefully) this Terrex message that the Chinese are sending them.

    Continue to fuck with China and the Chinese will send more retaliatory messages designed to deliver pain at incremental levels, until the dumb Dauphin finds his threshold of pain breached, the pain no longer tolerable and finally understand that Singapore is physically located in Asia, not the Americas and it's best that it does not fuck around with China's core interests, i.e. China's need for security from the American troublemakers in order that it can continue in peace, without any distractions or impediments, in its economic development.

    **********

    “On behalf of my fellow SAF Officers, both past and present, who still believe in the Code of Honour, we wish to state that we are deeply ashamed of the disgraceful and dishonourable conduct of Cpt Najib Hanuk, Maj Chia Thye Siong and Dr Ng Eng Hen. We sincerely apologise to the family of Pte Dominique Lee for the negligence which led to, and for the failure of these three gutless weasels to accept full responsibility for his tragic and unnecessary death.” PTADER, 27 March 2016

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Quote Originally Posted by eatshitndie View Post
    mistaken identity or not, faulty papers or incomplete paperwork are enough for seizure and stalling. try screwing up paperwork with mindef on ns deferment or exit permit and see if they close an eye on mistakes and let you go scot free.
    Not quite sure what is so difficult for these overpaid million dollar fools to understand since it's written in simple English and freely available on the HK's Custom's webpage.

    http://www.customs.gov.hk/en/trade_f...les/index.html

    "Prohibited articles are goods the import, export or transit of which are prohibited or controlled under the provisions of the Import and Export Ordinance, Chapter 60, Laws of Hong Kong or any other laws of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.


    Any persons importing or exporting such prohibited articles must apply for licences, permits or certificates from the Government Departments concerned in advance and are subject to the conditions imposed thereof."

    **********

    “On behalf of my fellow SAF Officers, both past and present, who still believe in the Code of Honour, we wish to state that we are deeply ashamed of the disgraceful and dishonourable conduct of Cpt Najib Hanuk, Maj Chia Thye Siong and Dr Ng Eng Hen. We sincerely apologise to the family of Pte Dominique Lee for the negligence which led to, and for the failure of these three gutless weasels to accept full responsibility for his tragic and unnecessary death.” PTADER, 27 March 2016

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Just my 2 cents[/QUOTE]

    Wow! Your theory of mistaken identity is a gem! Opened up my eyes really to the incompetence
    and utter lack of foresight of our political leaders. Really jaikliaobee! Definitely worth more than many cents!

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    Default Re: Terrex Confiscation: A Case of Mistaken Identity?

    Our million dollar PeeM only knows how to sue someone half his age when it comes to the world stage , hum ji




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