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Thread: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

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    Default The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    When Minister Ng revealed on his Facebook account that he would have some announcement in Parliament on the 2 month long Terrex saga, I looked forward to some progress or at least a constructive update. Instead, the whole country was treated a comedy stand up routine by him in Parliament. One does not know whether to cry or laugh at his statement, and the fact that he actually thinks that the public will buy it and that his statement passes for even a modicum of muster.

    Lesson # 1


    The PAP has no clue. No clue whatsoever. The concept of international diplomacy is apparent foreign to them. Minister Ng is still vigorously working the legal angle when the whole world can see that it’s a political matter. The naivete of the PAP is astounding. He states that the Govt. was advised by its lawyers that the seizure was illegal and violated even Hong Kong’s law. Does he seriously expect any lawyers employed by the Govt. to say anything else? Hiring your own lawyer to tell you that you are right and that Hong Kong is wrong is akin to masturbation. Now, if Minister Ng has a legal opinion from a world court like the international court of justice in The Hague, or from leading legal eagles in Hong Kong and China, then that would be different. But he does not have said endorsements nor was he able to get them. In fact, in the 2 months since the seizures, no independent 3rd party legal entity has denounced the seizures as illegal. That tells what the Govt’s lawyers’ opinions are worth. You will notice in Minister Ng’s speech that there is no contingency plan at all. There is mention of the legal aspect and there is mention of the Hong Kong authorities doing their investigations. But what if it goes against Singapore? What is Ng’s back up plan in case Hong Kong does not return them? It seems they are so clueless they have no idea how to proceed if the answer is no.


    Lesson # 2


    The PAP’s cavalier and lackadaisical attitude on this matter is extremely troubling. After losing tens of millions of dollars of taxpayer funded military vehicles, as well as a sizeable chunk of the SAF combat capability, the PAP is hardly in a hurry to recover them, nor is there any sense of urgency. The PAP seems to be taking a very passive wait and see attitude. Minister Ng has mentioned in his Parliament announcement “that the country has informed Hong Kong a couple of times over the last two months that the vehicles belong to the Singapore Government”. A couple of times over 2 month? You mean once a month on average? Are you kidding? That’s all? What happened to being on the phone with them every day to chase them for the return? And when the Hong Kong authorities brushed them off, “He said that the Hong Kong authorities have responded that the investigation is ongoing and will take some time to complete, noting that the Hong Kong government will handle the matter in accordance with their laws “, Minister Ng just meekly said “Ok”. What happened to formal protests, in fact, several of them? What happened to sending multiple delegations to Beijing and Hong Kong to request for their return? Certainly, there must be a 1000 ways to exert much more pressure on Hong Kong and China. And Lee Hsien Loong wrote a letter to Leung Chun Ying? Seriously? That must have scared the bejesus out of Hong Kong. Is Lee Hsien Loong adverse to picking up a phone and personally call the Hong Kong Chief Executive himself? Does he feel that as a natural aristocrat, this is below his station in life to make a call? We are paying this PM millions of $ a year, and he cannot pick up a phone? Is he afraid his Cantonese is not good enough? His wife could have translated for him, I am sure. Or how about summoning the Chinese ambassador to the Istana and giving him a dressing down? I don’t see this relaxed attitude when it comes to Amos, Roy and other opposition members.


    Lesson # 3


    We have absolutely no relationships with our major trading partners. We used to have a lot of them when LKY was the PM. LKY had a close and personal relationship with Chiang Ching Kuo of Taiwan and Deng Xiaopeng of China. If this incident had happened on LKY’s watch, he would have picked up a phone and called Deng, and this issue would go away. For all his faults, LKY got along with many world leaders, counting them as personal friends, with perhaps the exception of Mahathir. But apparently, there is no one in the PAP or Singapore govt that knows anyone in China or Hong Kong. What happened to the sizeable presence of EDB in Hong Kong and Temasek Holdings in China? After pumping billions of $ into China GLC banks and companies, does Ho Ching not know even one influential and high place govt. official? No one at all that could act as an intermediary or informal arbitrator? I mean George Yeo, former Minister for FA is in Hong Kong for crying out loud. Its is painfully clear that LHL has failed to cultivate these relations with our neighbouring countries. When Suharto was alive, LKY was a close friend and even flew to Jakarta to visit him at his deathbed. Do you think the Indonesians would ever dare to name 2 warships after terrorists who attacked Singapore while Suharto was alive? Despite being personally trained by his father for years, LHL does not seem to have cultivated the same sort of informal and personally relationships with world leaders. Or perhaps he did not bother to maintain these relationships that his father assiduously cultivated. Is it his personality? Is he an introvert at heart and socially awkward? Or is he so arrogant he does not care to know them? Whatever the reason, this is now coming back to bite us. Since 2010, we have had 3 Foreign Ministers. George Yeo, Shanmugan, and Vivian Balakrishnan, the last 2 were completely ill suited for the job because one was a lawyer and the other an eye doctor. By contrast, Singapore’s best foreign minister, S Rajaratnam, served in his post for 15 years from 1965 to 1980. It’s not possible to form good relationships with your counterparts from other countries when you have been in the post for such a short time and especially when your background is not in diplomacy. This Terrex incident is all about relationships. China would have given face to us and let the Terrex pass if we had good relations with her. The failure of LHL to understand this simple concept is unfathomable. How is it possible that Donald Trump, who is not yet POTUS, is able to develop a positive relationship with Putin even before taking office, and LHL is not able to develop anything years after taking office?


    Lesson # 4


    We have lost all our friends. How it happened, I have no idea. After doing a favour for Obama and the US, LHL criticized China over the South China Sea. Now that we have lost the Terrex, I don’t see Obama denouncing the seizure of these vehicles, and helping us out with some international condemnation. What about Taiwan? The vehicles came from there, and got knows, the Chinese are already mad at the Taiwanese. It couldn’t hurt the Taiwanese anymore if they showed support for one of their very few military allies in the world. Yet nothing heard from them. What about all these South East Asian countries with claims in the South China Sea, and for whom Singapore spoke up for when they criticized china. Where are they now? The real killer is China itself. After taking in 1 million of their citizens and giving them jobs, clean air and sanitary living conditions and in many cases free education, the country has turned around and done this to us. Secretly, all these countries are happy to see us get our comeuppance. Not one other country anywhere in the world has denounced or criticize the seizures. The whole thing came about because we helped out some other country. Did the US con LHL into making those statements critical of the Chinese?

    Lesson # 5

    And this is the most terrifying lesson of all. We are now a defacto vassal state of China. The PAP has allowed us to be in this ridiculously untenable situation. We have allowed in 1 million Chinese and have put them into all sectors of our economy. From banking, to bus drivers, MRT staff, hospital doctors and nurses, etc. We cannot even retaliate against China by kicking them out of the country, because that would bring our economy to a screeching halt. At the same time, billions of our money is tied up in China, through Temasek and other GLC and private Singapore companies investments there. Any retaliation against China could have heavy financial consequences for us. The bald truth is they have us by the short hairs. There is nothing that we dare do accept throw verbal insults at them. Once the Chinese can clearly see that the PAP will not do anything drastic and will let hte 9 Terrex ride off into a Chinese sunset, they will be testing us in other ways too. They might as well annex us and turn us into the next Province. This is actually the worse threat to our national security. Not the threat of terrorism (all the terrorist activities in the singapore in the last 50 years) have not resulted in the lost of 9 military vehicles. This is not a theoretical threat to out security. This is real, with real military hardware lost. We have to bite our tongue and go away empty handed. This is a form of subjugation and domination that China is exercising on us, make no mistake about it. And all brought to us by courtesy of poor PAP economic and political decisions. The PAP is the greatest threat to SIngapore national security not ISIS or AL Queda. The scary thing is bad as the current leadership is, the next gen of PAP leaders might be even worse.

    Just my 2 cents
    Last edited by Papsmearer; 10-01-2017 at 08:48 PM.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    hk law on customs and excise does clearly spell out prohibited items for import/export, transhipment and transit. in the absence of paperwork, especially on cargo containing arms, weapons, munitions, and military equipment including wmd (strategic commodities) without diplomatic immunity and special clearances, the items can be construed as part of an international smuggling or arms trafficking operation. paperwork produced after getting busted may be tad too late.

    the hk port authority even presented their position on "strategic trade control" in dubai on march 2012.

    https://www.state.gov/strategictrade...ion/190335.pdf
    Last edited by eatshitndie; 10-01-2017 at 09:10 PM.
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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    LHL has many friends as well,Najib of malaysia and Abe of Japan.just not the ones in the right department.
    Last edited by frenchbriefs; 10-01-2017 at 09:23 PM.
    Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Lesson 6

    The world has changed. You are no longer dealing with one another on the same platform. China dictates the rules of engagement. Unless you are like the US, all international rules of engagements do not apply for China. The world is a scarier place today.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    ministers and generals will say: we need more and better arms hahaha.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Papsmearer,

    Your Lesson #5 is delightful. Not "most terrifying". I am Chinese, the world knows that Zikapore is the Third China, and I am perfectly happy to be with motherland China.

    You said: "We are now a defacto vassal state of China." Should we continue to be a vassal state of the USA or Western Powers?

    Perhaps you are a banana.

    Lesson #7. The most terrifying situation is having lhl as pm.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by retrenched View Post
    ministers and generals will say: we need more and better arms hahaha.
    This is a good one.

    Conman Rony Tan's faith healing scam: http://theindependent.sg/netizen-tau...se-evangelism/

    Con man Rony Tan's faith healing bullshit: http://mothership.sg/2016/06/tactica...ink-dot-event/

    Exposing lighthouse church: https://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.p...-faith-healers

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    My thought on the issue.

    1. Technically Pap had indeed infringe on China's sovereignty on Taiwan since we recognize the one china principle in which Taiwan is part of china. Any military activity conducted on Taiwanese shores need the approval from PRC.

    2. It unlikely hk court will pass any ruling if they deem the dispute as falling under sovereignty issues which is beyond the scope of Basic law. It will likely refer back to Beijing. Only political settlement thought diplomatic channel can resolved the issue.

    3. Settling the dispute via legal means once again exposed the inexperience of our current foreign minister and his understanding of how international relations work.

    4. The best person to fill the post of foreign minister is still George yeo who had to leave after losing the election. It a waste and we have to settle for an eye surgeon who got problem reading international situations. Time for us to consider amending the constituition to allow non elected 'nominated minister' like what we have for nominated MP.

    5. Lastly the person Lhl should write to is xi jiping and not the governor of HK. It not appropriate for him as a country leader to write to a local official. Again did Vivien advise him to do so?
    Last edited by 3_M; 11-01-2017 at 06:39 AM.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddog View Post
    Papsmearer,

    Your Lesson #5 is delightful. Not "most terrifying". I am Chinese, the world knows that Zikapore is the Third China, and I am perfectly happy to be with motherland China.

    You said: "We are now a defacto vassal state of China." Should we continue to be a vassal state of the USA or Western Powers?

    Perhaps you are a banana.

    Lesson #7. The most terrifying situation is having lhl as pm.
    What kind of comment is that? How are we a vassal state of the US or Western power? If the US withdraws every one of its citizens from singapore, will our economy grind to a halt? Not likely at all. Or the UK or any other western power? The answer is no. But if China did that, we are dead. there is 1 million of them in singapore. We are completely dependent on them and beholden to them. That is why I say we are a vassal state. Or if you like, a colony of China.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by 3_M View Post
    My thought on the issue.

    1. Technically Pap had indeed infringe on China's sovereignty on Taiwan since we recognize the one china principle in which Taiwan is part of china. Any military activity conducted on Taiwanese shores need the approval from PRC.

    2. It unlikely hk court will pass any ruling if they deem the dispute as falling under sovereignty issues which is beyond the scope of Basic law. It will likely refer back to Beijing. Only political settlement thought diplomatic channel can resolved the issue.

    3. Settling the dispute via legal means once again exposed the inexperience of our current foreign minister and his understanding of how international relations work.

    4. The best person to fill the post of foreign minister is still George yeo who had to leave after losing the election. It a waste and we have to settle for an eye surgeon who got problem reading international situations. Time for us to consider amending the constituition to allow non elected 'nominated minister' like what we have for nominated MP.

    5. Lastly the person Lhl should write to is xi jiping and not the governor of HK. It not appropriate for him as a country leader to write to a local official. Again did Vivien advise him to do so?
    Yes, you are correct. In fact, Chief of Army Melvin Yeo revealed that there were 'small arms' in the terrex. that alone is grounds for confiscation when small arms (defined as handgun, assault weapons, etc) are in the shipment.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddog View Post
    Papsmearer,

    Your Lesson #5 is delightful. Not "most terrifying". I am Chinese, the world knows that Zikapore is the Third China, and I am perfectly happy to be with motherland China.

    You said: "We are now a defacto vassal state of China." Should we continue to be a vassal state of the USA or Western Powers?

    Perhaps you are a banana.

    Lesson #7. The most terrifying situation is having lhl as pm.

    I concur. If you are a Chinese person it's not terrifying. It's only terrifying for the likes of muds like whoami, shit skins like syed putra, winners etc.

    Remember they have been mass importing pinoys and shit skins into SG not just China ppl but for some weird fucking reason peeps (i won't use nigger) like papsmearer has been ignoring that and just only focuses on China fts/prs. Remember the recent riot in SG? Was it done by China ppl? Nope by shit skins but for some weird reason papsmearer doesn't say anything about arresting them or deporting them cos they aren't Chinese.

    Inability to look at the bigger picture is something i noticed many Chinese ppl lack. Muds don't seem to lack that. How does that work you may ask. Well it's like this. On a personal lvl i don't really like tiongs. I won't hesitate to scold them or fuck them upside down if they misbehave BUT on a larger scale in the bigger scheme of things i rather them here compared to shit skins or other races because they are Chinese and since sinkie Chinese are not reproducing enough it is better to have more foreign Chinese to keep SG's Chinese population at a good level. Period.

    Previously i couldn't see that but now i can and i realize a lot of sinkie Chinese cannot see it but not so for other races. Take muds for example. I used to think malays would greet each other even strangers like long lost relatives everytime they see one another. No that isn't the case. They treat one another like how Chinese treat one another who are strangers. The big difference is that they have this common understanding amongst one another to aid and help their own even if on an individual lvl they have differences with one another. Do malays fight with one another, cheat one another etc? Of course they do and the worst thing is seeing some confused Chinese getting shocked that malays also do that to one another cos they just cannot see it. The big difference is that they won't help another race even if they fight with one another. They still have the malays first mentality which unites them.

    Chinese on the other hand or at least some of them treat their own the worst, thinks the worst of their race. Meets someone of another race who is a nice person will start to think everyone of their race is nice while putting down his own race. How many times have you read a Chinese person say i have a few nice malay/pinoy/shit skin *insert race/nationality* friends so therefore everyone from that race or country is nice except if it's China or some Chinese place. See how naive this type of thinking is.

    Suffice to say let's assume there are a lot of indon or mudland muds moving into SG. In short just switch the tiongs with indon or mudland muds. Local muds won't complain about it. They look at the bigger picture of things. They know that with more muds in sg it benefits them indirectly and the same thing occurs with local shit skins. Notice how you rarely see local shit skins complaining of foreign shit skins cos they look at the bigger picture of things. Why else would shit skin ministers like vivian, shan etc want more shit skins into SG despite being local shit skins and not from india. I don't know why so many local Chinese are so naive in this aspect.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    What kind of comment is that? How are we a vassal state of the US or Western power? If the US withdraws every one of its citizens from singapore, will our economy grind to a halt? Not likely at all. Or the UK or any other western power? The answer is no. But if China did that, we are dead. there is 1 million of them in singapore. We are completely dependent on them and beholden to them. That is why I say we are a vassal state. Or if you like, a colony of China.
    doesnt matter,a certain pinoy already said we are a garrison pretending to be a country,if we are occupied by the soldiers of a foreign entity,we are that country's bitches.likewise,the british imported hundreds of thousands of chink coolie labour to build this colony,but this colony was known as a british colony not a chink colony,their mistake was when their chink subjects rose up and overthrew them.
    Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt.

    From henceforth,Jamban Jah's signature will be known as "Go,Go Chink Power!!"

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    If I may add Lesson 7:

    The solidity of ASEAN is now in serious doubt. What sets out to be a grouping of common and singular mindset against major forces which may impact any country in the group, is now in serious doubts after Philippines, Malaysia and some others, went their own way, lately being the SCS and alliance with China for individual benefits. With the potential split, or at least the non-cohesiveness of ASEAN countries, the PAP-led SG seems to be the only country in the group that's trying to swim against the current and group. It may spell the downward spiral of PAP, therefore SG, should every country in the grouping stop supporting SG with resources, eg sand, water, etc., and trade. Is the Foreign Minister aware and doing what's needed to hold the group together?


    Just my 2cents worth seeing from my armchair (and not paid by the millions though, not even a cent!)


    By the way, any scoop on when the team of SAF members who went to HKG to try get back the terrexes, came back? Who was highest ranking official led the team and what have they secured or facilitated their release?
    Caveats : In event of any doubt, all above words should be construed to be in metaphor. No intent to incite violence or public disorder.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by retrenched View Post
    ministers and generals will say: we need more and better arms hahaha.
    ministars and generalists will say: we need more and better pay to maintain the better arms hahaha.

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    Wink Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Jah_rastafar_I View Post
    On a personal lvl i don't really like tiongs.
    Neither do I.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jah_rastafar_I View Post
    BUT on a larger scale in the bigger scheme of things i rather them here compared to shit skins or other races because they are Chinese and since sinkie Chinese are not reproducing enough it is better to have more foreign Chinese to keep SG's Chinese population at a good level. Period.
    I would rather Singapore's population fall from the current 5+ million level down to at most THREE million, i.e. the late 1980s or early 1990s level.
    And I wouldn't mind even if the low fertility rate of fertile Chinese Sinkie women causes the proportion of the Malay Sinkie population to rise to, let's say, 30%.
    But I do agree that Malay Sinkies should remain a minority (otherwise, Singapore might as well become part of Johor again) and that Chinese Sinkies should constitute a majority of at least 60% (so that for every Malay Sinkie, there are at least two Chinese Sinkies); but as for importing "foreign" Chinese people to maintain the Chinese Sinkie majority, I would give priority to those who were born and brought up within Southeast Asia, preferably the Malay Archipelago.
    And they must also be reasonably fluent in English.
    Which is why last in line would be PRC citizens.
    I don't mind Hong Kongers and Taiwanese, but priority would still be given to Chinese Malaysians/Indonesians.

    Finally, please bear with me for using so many ""; I just can't help winking whenever I reply to you!

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Wunderfool View Post
    Lesson 6

    The world has changed. You are no longer dealing with one another on the same platform. China dictates the rules of engagement. Unless you are like the US, all international rules of engagements do not apply for China. The world is a scarier place today.
    that's because you have people with delusions of grandeur and over the years boasting about themselves(esp the foreign affairs people like the kausikan chap )punching above their weight etc with all the crap chest thumping. Now this issues just reveal its all hot air and how small and impotent they are.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Lesson 8

    WW2 was started when Nazi Germany asserted her influence and control over Europe. WW3 may start when China try to assert her influence and control over South East Asia.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by flatearther View Post
    Neither do I.



    I would rather Singapore's population fall from the current 5+ million level down to at most THREE million, i.e. the late 1980s or early 1990s level.
    And I wouldn't mind even if the low fertility rate of fertile Chinese Sinkie women causes the proportion of the Malay Sinkie population to rise to, let's say, 30%.
    But I do agree that Malay Sinkies should remain a minority (otherwise, Singapore might as well become part of Johor again) and that Chinese Sinkies should constitute a majority of at least 60% (so that for every Malay Sinkie, there are at least two Chinese Sinkies); but as for importing "foreign" Chinese people to maintain the Chinese Sinkie majority, I would give priority to those who were born and brought up within Southeast Asia, preferably the Malay Archipelago.
    And they must also be reasonably fluent in English.
    Which is why last in line would be PRC citizens.
    I don't mind Hong Kongers and Taiwanese, but priority would still be given to Chinese Malaysians/Indonesians.

    Finally, please bear with me for using so many ""; I just can't help winking whenever I reply to you!
    You dumb nigger since when can your wishes factor into this?

    obviously having less ppl is good in Sg's context but it's not the fact of the matter is it's still better to have more Chinese compared to other races especially shit skins.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex


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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Another plagiarization, and yet again with pics. LOL. can sue for copyright infringement or not?

    http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/ea...x-5545197.html

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