Serious Singapore investors have unrealistic income expectations: Schroders survey

johnny333 said:

I'm getting lazy in my old age
Looking for something where I don't have to closely monitor. I don't expect high returns just looking for something that will give a higher return than what the banks are giving(1 to 2%).

The US$50k is already in my US trading account & not generating $. Probably look into one or more of the ETFs or one of the many dividend stocks.

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Closely monitoring it for between 5 to 30 minutes I think is okay even for an Ah Pek

I would suggest index futures day trading as a form of daily brain exercise - like going down to the void deck to play Chinese chess or dumb with fellow Ah Peks - only this one is the anti-social introvert form of exercise, like playing chess against the computer locked up in your study room at home.

My dream would be to master the early morning session for Hang Seng and then extend the principles with small local variations to the mini SP, mini NASDAQ, mini DOW, FTSE 100, Euro Stoxx 50, DAX, etc.

[video=youtube;IX79VxZ5j4g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX79VxZ5j4g[/video]

For instance, if I am located in Sinkie/Hongkie time zone and not free from 9.15 to 11.15 am, no big deal, I can trade the first 2 hours for the FTSE, DAX or Euro Stoxx 50 when Hang Seng is whipsawing (usually but not always) in the late morning to early afternoon. Afternoon also not free, never mind, can trade mini SP, mini NASDAQ or mini DOW from 9 to 11 pm.

http://www.barchart.com/commodityfutures/Indices

http://www.barchart.com/commodityfutures/Indices?area=europe

And if I master the last 2 hours of Hang Seng and extend the principles to the other international index futures, then after I finish my dinner and rest for a while, instead of morning session of US markets, can also play late afternoon of European markets starting 1 to 2 hours earlier than 9 pm

In the event, I so unfortunate as to suffer from insomnia, then can even trade the final 2 hours of the US indices futures market

When I decide to locate to another time zone, no problem, trade Hang Seng's morning at 9 pm in New York for example. Insomnia in New York? Trade Hang Seng's afternoon at 3 am lor!

Thursday's first trade - entry was not too bad, precise enough - exit was quite clumsy - but still can make HKD 4,850 = MYR 2,500 = one month's rent in about half an hour woh! Using only about USD 20,000 in margin although a lot more was sitting in my account for scaling in to get out at break even or smaller loss should the need arise or go for big profits should the opportunity stare me in the face.

After securing the means and methods to a regular high but not fantastic income every month, then can study interest rates, commodities, fundamentals of stocks and then proceed to the very big picture and macro investing.

[video=youtube;mAvJ2CvcC_s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAvJ2CvcC_s[/video]

Asterix said:

Closely monitoring it for between 5 to 30 minutes I think is okay even for an Ah Pek

I would suggest index futures day trading as a form of daily brain exercise - like going down to the void deck to play Chinese chess or dumb with fellow Ah Peks - only this one is the anti-social introvert form of exercise, like playing chess against the computer locked up in your study room at home.....[/video]

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I'm already sleeping in the in the late morning, a habit I picked up while watching the US markets. Just been watching the market & not been doing anything.
Might as well start making some $$ & keep the brain active.

Many don't realise that you need a regular job or hobby to keep active. I now have to force myself to go out & get some exercise. I used to travel around the region for fun but I'm starting to feel my age & will probably cut back traveling.

I'm Considering moving elsewhere where I can walk on the beach in the afternoons, listening to the waves & watching the natives. Somewhere like Pattaya

Asterix said:

Will be useful later .........

https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

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I have an iPad & I use the "World Clock" app to track the time Tokyo, Cupertino, New York,..

You can decide to track as many time zones by adding more clock faces. It will display a black clock face when it is night time in that region.

Ash007 said:

Get some etf. I suggest vts. Warren buffet has a bet with a fund manager that etf will out perform any funds in the long run. He is 68% ahead now while the funds are only like 20%. If you want to punt, play what you can afford to lose. My recent punt us now 150% ahead after a year.

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Thanks will take a look at that.

Right now I'm looking for somewhere to park my $50k but I expect to get more $ from dividends. I don't have a lavish lifestyle & I expect to get more dividends in the future & I don't need all of it for my daily expenditures.

If anyone is still working I recommend you put something aside some of it to invest. If you don't have a lot of $, take a look at the Malaysian market. The ringgit is weak so your $SGD will go further. Many companies in Malaysia pay a yearly dividend. I expect many Sporeans to retire there, so having ringgit is useful to have.

Once you make enough $ you can look at other markets. The CPF is useless & I don't expect to see any of it. Don't forget to indicate a beneficiary to leave your CPF because that person will be the one who will benefit from your CPF.

Been looking around & it seems that the best strategy for me is being a passive investor i.e. to buy into an index fund. Now looking into index funds, one that most closely follows the market.

Can anyone recommend a few that I can chose from

johnny333 said:

Been looking around & it seems that the best strategy for me is being a passive investor i.e. to buy into an index fund. Now looking into index funds, one that most closely follows the market.

Can anyone recommend a few that I can chose from

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the more i think, the more i see that this whole financial market is a scam. i know there are others who made it but i really have my doubts. imagine 1% become financial superstar, the rest are just paying school fees to be like them. reality bites, hope that greedy sinkies dun be disheartened, there are many legitimate ways to make money. i for sure think sinkies are dumb, including me.

to add on, allow me to quote bro Runifyoucan, he told me in his PM that these financial instrumenst are created to rip money off you. and i agree with him 80% cos' i am in the 20% cohort making money. woohoo...

johnny333 said:

Been looking around & it seems that the best strategy for me is being a passive investor i.e. to buy into an index fund. Now looking into index funds, one that most closely follows the market.

Can anyone recommend a few that I can chose from

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What market you want to play? If etfs look for vanguards or blackrock products. Which index you want to follow? Sgx? Nasdaq? Dow? S&p?

krafty said:

to add on, allow me to quote bro Runifyoucan, he told me in his PM that these financial instrumenst are created to rip money off you. and i agree with him 80% cos' i am in the 20% cohort making money. woohoo...

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There's no big secret in making $. Investing is not a get rich quick scheme. It was many years before my investments blossomed & when I realised that I made my million

You want to avoid expensive Brokers & fees. That's why I avoid investing in Spore, there is a depository fee if you are not a frequent trader & just want to hold onto the shares.

I've hung to some of my shares for 15 years or longer that's why Spore is not conducive to wealth building. In Spore they have come up with all kinds of service fees that is killing the investment industry. The discount broker I use in the US is cheap, efficient & has no inactive fees on the shares I keep there. In Malaysia the cost of investing is also lower & they even give me a call if there is a rights issue.

I avoid mutual funds because they all charge an annual fee. I've owned many shares in the past but have gradually reduced the numbers to those that have performed. Nowadays I prefer stocks that give me a dividend because I can re-invest the $ & that's why I'm looking at index shares.

Ash007 said:

What market you want to play? If etfs look for vanguards or blackrock products. Which index you want to follow? Sgx? Nasdaq? Dow? S&p?

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Are there index funds that cover the Dow, S&P & Nasdaq? The wider the coverage, the better.

Are these funds available via the ETF market? It would make it easier to buy/sell them because I already have a US trading account.

johnny333 said:

Are there index funds that cover the Dow, S&P & Nasdaq? The wider the coverage, the better.

Are these funds available via the ETF market? It would make it easier to buy/sell them because I already have a US trading account.

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Mate told you to check vts.
https://www.vanguardinvestments.com...etf?portId=0970##prices-and-distributions-tab
And yes dividened per quarter. Only problem is 148 a share. I play vas. Much cheaper. If i have the coin i'll get some. Got a feeling it'll fall next year.
Fund overview
The ETF provides exposure to some of the world’s largest companies listed in the United States. It offers low-cost access to a broadly diversified range of securities that allows investors to participate in their long-term growth potential. The ETF is exposed to the fluctuating values of the US currency, as there will not be any hedging to the Australian dollar.

lifeafter41 said:

Yep, the performance of their funds sucks......
What's wrong with having high expectations......with the fees they are charging......
Might as well go for a diy and save on the fees going by their logic.....

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Wow, I did not realize that Shroders is so fucking stupid. They simply blame the expectation of 9.2% return on "over optimism" of the investor without finding out the reason why. Every single investor does an average return on their portfolio, whether consciously or unconsciously. Therefore, if they have $100K in their CPF (which many consider as part of their portfolio), and $100K with Shroders, then expecting 9.2% averages out their portfolio return to only 5.85% after accounting for CPF's 2.5% return. In other words, the low return given to them on their mandatory savings investment forces them to seek high returns on their other investments that are not government determined. I suggest that Shroders examine this as the probably reason for their investors wanting what they want rather then attributing it to over optimism. What a bunch of fucktards.

Ash007 said:

Mate told you to check vts.
https://www.vanguardinvestments.com...etf?portId=0970##prices-and-distributions-tab
And yes dividened per quarter. Only problem is 148 a share. I play vas. Much cheaper. If i have the coin i'll get some. Got a feeling it'll fall next year.
Fund overview
The ETF provides exposure to some of the world’s largest companies listed in the United States. It offers low-cost access to a broadly diversified range of securities that allows investors to participate in their long-term growth potential. The ETF is exposed to the fluctuating values of the US currency, as there will not be any hedging to the Australian dollar.

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Still doing my homework lah. Once I've narrowed down to a handful I can decide on which one & the entry price. May decide on more than one.

johnny333 said:

Thanks will take a look at that.

Right now I'm looking for somewhere to park my $50k but I expect to get more $ from dividends. I don't have a lavish lifestyle & I expect to get more dividends in the future & I don't need all of it for my daily expenditures.

If anyone is still working I recommend you put something aside some of it to invest. If you don't have a lot of $, take a look at the Malaysian market. The ringgit is weak so your $SGD will go further. Many companies in Malaysia pay a yearly dividend. I expect many Sporeans to retire there, so having ringgit is useful to have.

Once you make enough $ you can look at other markets. The CPF is useless & I don't expect to see any of it. Don't forget to indicate a beneficiary to leave your CPF because that person will be the one who will benefit from your CPF.

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If dividends are what u are looking for then,then sg reits are the choice.a few suggestions would be First reit,Ireit,croesus retail trust,soilbuild business space reit,and maybe Frasers centerpoint trust,china merchant pacific was a great dividend player,chinese tollbooth company,fantastic dividends for years more than 9 percent too bad it got privatised.nothing much to say about these companies,well managed properties,high occupancy rates over the past ten years,continually increasing DPU,strong balance sheets,and not much urgent debt refinancing upcoming in the next few years.there are some long writeups and thorough analysis about them u might want to search for them on google.

frenchbriefs said:

If dividends are what u are looking for then,then sg reits are the choice.a few suggestions would be First reit,Ireit,croesus retail trust,soilbuild business space reit,and maybe Frasers centerpoint trust,china merchant pacific was a great dividend player,chinese tollbooth company,fantastic dividends for years more than 9 percent too bad it got privatised.nothing much to say about these companies,well managed properties,high occupancy rates over the past ten years,continually increasing DPU,strong balance sheets,and not much urgent debt refinancing upcoming in the next few years.there are some long writeups and thorough analysis about them u might want to search for them on google.

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In investing you want to minimise the overheads & you can't do that in expensive Spore.

If you are not an active trader you have to pay fees to the brokerage house for each counter. If I recall it was $12 per counter for each month? These costs all adds up.
Although I plan to invest a couple of thousand dollars I will only be topping up once or twice per year. So all these fees will hit my profit margin. You also don't know if the brokerage firms in Spore will be increasing these charges or come up with other new charges.

I've already got a US trading account & I only have to pay US$10 for each transaction & they don't charge anything for inactive traders.

The economy in the US is also healthier while in Spore it is contracting. I'm looking into the vanguard small cap index funds which may give a bigger bang when the US starts to increase interest rates. Still undecided because I'm still researching this.

johnny333 said:

In investing you want to minimise the overheads & you can't do that in expensive Spore.

If you are not an active trader you have to pay fees to the brokerage house for each counter. If I recall it was $12 per counter for each month? These costs all adds up.
Although I plan to invest a couple of thousand dollars I will only be topping up once or twice per year. So all these fees will hit my profit margin. You also don't know if the brokerage firms in Spore will be increasing these charges or come up with other new charges.

I've already got a US trading account & I only have to pay US$10 for each transaction & they don't charge anything for inactive traders.

The economy in the US is also healthier while in Spore it is contracting. I'm looking into the vanguard small cap index funds which may give a bigger bang when the US starts to increase interest rates. Still undecided because I'm still researching this.

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yes to some extend u cant avoid the overheads with Sg stock brokers but thats a negative im willing to bear.i dont think all brokers have the holding fees,its probably only the shitty Poems or something,there might be a custodian fee with CDP but its very very small.most sg brokers charge a minimum commision of $25 per trade but theres a broker standard charter that has no minimum commision but they are changing it to $10 this year.....so SCB is still ur best bet.

SG is a good place to start because its a very small market and easy to understand,theres only a handful of blue chips and a bunch of sg reits that are no brainers to hold and have been analysed over and over again by local investors over the past decade.handful that comes to mind are singtel,st eng,sing post,kingsmen.and the rest are SG reits,they yield an attractive dividend of 4 to 9 percent a year and have solid track records......

secondly the pros of investing in sg market like i have mentioned before,theres no capital gains tax,and zero dividends tax or a low one time tax of 10% on the business side if i remember correctly on a government website,investors do not have to pay any tax on their end.other countries like USA charge their citizens a shitload of taxes.now in which country can u find such a amazing deal?

frenchbriefs said:

yes to some extend u cant avoid the overheads with Sg stock brokers but thats a negative im willing to bear.i dont think all brokers have the holding fees,its probably only the shitty Poems or something,there might be a custodian fee with CDP but its very very small.most sg brokers charge a minimum commision of $25 per trade but theres a broker standard charter that has no minimum commision but they are changing it to $10 this year.....so SCB is still ur best bet.

SG is a good place to start because its a very small market and easy to understand,theres only a handful of blue chips and a bunch of sg reits that are no brainers to hold and have been analysed over and over again by local investors over the past decade.handful that comes to mind are singtel,st eng,sing post,kingsmen.and the rest are SG reits,they yield an attractive dividend of 4 to 9 percent a year and have solid track records......

secondly the pros of investing in sg market like i have mentioned before,theres no capital gains tax,and zero dividends tax or a low one time tax of 10% on the business side if i remember correctly on a government website,investors do not have to pay any tax on their end.other countries like USA charge their citizens a shitload of taxes.now in which country can u find such a amazing deal?

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I have 2 Spore trading accounts in Spore with the larger brokers & they both charge custodial fees. I think the days where everyone had a Spore trading account are over & people are going to the casinos or looking at foreign markets I was visiting ThinkorSwims, a US broker & I saw plenty of people there so business must be good.

I am well aware of the US's 30% withholding tax but this kind of tax is common. You also have a withholding tax in Malaysia . It's all part of doing business. I might not have this cost if I invest in Spore but it restricts me to a handful of stocks. I've invested in Spore in the past & did not make as much $. Was also played out by the PAP when they abandoned the CLOB investors. In my case it's once bitten twice shy.

The Spore market is dominated by the famiLee & cronies & I prefer not to be involved with those shady characters. You never know when they will sell you out. I remember investing in some Spore companies but was forced to sell when these companies were taken over e.g. Tat Lee Bank

The dividends I am currently receiving is more than what I need. So I am thinking of investing in growth stocks rather than dividends e.g. Vanguard small cap index funds. Or a combination of dividend & growth. It is a choice that isn't available if I were investing in Spore.

I'm almost totally out of the Spore market & doing pretty well financially. Good enough to not need my CPF. The reason I'm angry about the CPF is that it is mine & doesn't belong to the PAP or Ho Ching. I still own some ST shares which gave a dividend recently, It was $5.XX. Glad that I don't have to pay a tax on it

Ah johnny do inform me what you settle on. I'm interested to find out what you end eith. Might do the same with small caps vanguard.

Ash007 said:

Ah johnny do inform me what you settle on. I'm interested to find out what you end eith. Might do the same with small caps vanguard.

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Ok.

The more I look into it, I'll probably put some $ into Vanguard small cap value (VBR) It costs almost the same as Vanguard VST but historically it has performed around 13%. However it gives a lower dividend of 2.92%

I'm currently getting dividends from my other stocks & willing to do with less if the fund performs better. I already own some Apple stocks which is included in Vanguards VST portfolio. So from a diversification point of view VBR would be better as there is no replication of what I already own.

What I want to know is whether I can buy these ETF funds through my trading account or must I go through some agent
How did you get your vanguard VIS?

johnny333 said:

Been looking around & it seems that the best strategy for me is being a passive investor i.e. to buy into an index fund. Now looking into index funds, one that most closely follows the market.

Can anyone recommend a few that I can chose from

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Look at the Vanguard etf ...get one for each region ...US, EU, AP or emerging markets and a bond fund. Then, sit back and enjoy life.