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Chitchat CPF Investment Scheme fails for 30 years - "not fit for purpose"

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
When were you born, never mind asking about the spermatozoa thing....in 1984 I helped my late Uncle withdrawal all his CPF - ALL, they gave him a OUB cheque, which I went with him to OUB HQ which was at now 1 Raffles Place, my colleague in 1983 & many like him withdrew all their CPF...it was when mee siam mai hum became the PM & that this was gradually phased out & never to be withdrawn at retirement...

Now I ask, when did the spermatozoa fertilise the egg.....never mind if it was in 1 July 1955....

so what happened to the people who took out all their cpf?i bet in the 80s the problem was not too severe yet,in the 90s and 00s when inflation really starts to set in and accelerate,u started to see more and more old folks working at mickey dees and picking cardboard for exercise.giving people a large sum of money always leads to a false sense of increased freedom.unless ur uncle or other sinkies like him was smart or educated enough to put his cpf money into a annuity or something,which is probably not considering he even needs help from his nephew to cash a UOB cheque.he and many others would be lieing dead on the sidewalk by now,which is pretty difficult considering singapore is a pretty hot and humid country,u can become skeleton thin like many old folks but its quite hard to die in this environment unless ur run over by bus or taxi while picking cardboard.also u dont think people spend their money recklessly?go to australia and see how many old folks throw away their pension checks at the jackpot machines at the casino or one of those bingo parlours.give sinkie retirees their cpf and see how many sinkies will be queuing up at MBS.

and remember one thing,when these old buggers finish spending their cpf monies,the first person they will come running to is not the government,it is YOU their family and relatives,good luck feeding them useless sack of shits for the rest of their lives.
 
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halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
so what happened to the people who took out all their cpf?i bet in the 80s the problem was not too severe yet,in the 90s and 00s when inflation really starts to set in and accelerate,u started to see more and more old folks working at mickey dees and picking cardboard for exercise.giving people a large sum of money always leads to a false sense of increased freedom.unless ur uncle or other sinkies like him was smart or educated enough to put his cpf money into a annuity or something,which is probably not considering he even needs help from his nephew to cash a UOB cheque.he and many others would be lieing dead on the sidewalk by now,which is pretty difficult considering singapore is a pretty hot and humid country,u can become skeleton thin like many old folks but its quite hard to die in this environment unless ur run over by bus or taxi while picking cardboard.also u dont think people spend their money recklessly?go to australia and see how many old folks throw away their pension checks at the jackpot machines at the casino or one of those bingo parlours.give sinkie retirees their cpf and see how many sinkies will be queuing up at MBS.

and remember one thing,when these old buggers finish spending their cpf monies,the first person they will come running to is not the government,it is YOU their family and relatives,good luck feeding them useless sack of shits for the rest of their lives.

My late uncle lived to a ripe old age enjoying the money.....my ex colleague is now 88 years of age, lived a debt free life with grandchildren & generally good health...are those generation of people who had their CPF money withdrawn all at that time. Even if they become a useless sack of shits...no government on this earth must hold onto any of their citizen's money entrusted to them & find ways & means to change the bar to stop their citizen from accessing them. If the 70% trust them with all their hearts, I don't.

Yes it is you, him or her or they or them....or me....my money, our money , their money...when I reach the age...I want it all back, whether I spend it all in a minute after getting it & die in the gutter..I earned it, enjoyed it for it is my BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS

Don't give me the craps on who is responsible for whatever....one day, it will proven that the 70% are making a huge mistake & when they discover that all they had saved is only worth less than 1/10 of the value....that day will come...

We are so trusting...
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
My late uncle lived to a ripe old age enjoying the money.....my ex colleague is now 88 years of age, lived a debt free life with grandchildren & generally good health...are those generation of people who had their CPF money withdrawn all at that time. Even if they become a useless sack of shits...no government on this earth must hold onto any of their citizen's money entrusted to them & find ways & means to change the bar to stop their citizen from accessing them. If the 70% trust them with all their hearts, I don't.

Yes it is you, him or her or they or them....or me....my money, our money , their money...when I reach the age...I want it all back, whether I spend it all in a minute after getting it & die in the gutter..I earned it, enjoyed it for it is my BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS

Don't give me the craps on who is responsible for whatever....one day, it will proven that the 70% are making a huge mistake & when they discover that all they had saved is only worth less than 1/10 of the value....that day will come...

We are so trusting...

In that case why not just abolish the CPF?after all its just a glorified savings account if u want ur money back at 55.government dont need to worry about peasant retirement or anything u die ur business,dont need any safety net or minimum insurance policy.after all whats to point of having my money sitting in a account for 30 years doing nothing when i can be using it to invest?u guys dunno how to save money urself in a milo tin or kong guan biscuit?

cpf is supposed to be a last resort safety net,cause u know there are many idiots out there in their forties and even fifties who have barely any savings or investments and are living from paycheck to paycheck?do u know the median networth of sinkies age 50 and above is 113k?that means half of them has less than 113k after working for 30 years and the bottom 25 percentile of sinkies aged 50 and above has less than 36k networth!!!!without a job they are practically dead!!!!!ur uncle and his colleaque managed to live to a ripe old age of 88 on their money?good for them!!!bravo???from what i can see the track record of the pioneer generation and baby boomers arent doing so good because more than 1/3rd of them are still cleaning toilets,clearing dishes and working at mcdonalds in their old age unable to retire!!!!
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
In that case why not just abolish the CPF?after all its just a glorified savings account if u want ur money back at 55.government dont need to worry about peasant retirement or anything u die ur business,dont need any safety net or minimum insurance policy.after all whats to point of having my money sitting in a account for 30 years doing nothing when i can be using it to invest?u guys dunno how to save money urself in a milo tin or kong guan biscuit?

cpf is supposed to be a last resort safety net,cause u know there are many idiots out there in their forties and even fifties who have barely any savings or investments and are living from paycheck to paycheck?do u know the median networth of sinkies age 50 and above is 113k?that means half of them has less than 113k after working for 30 years and the bottom 25 percentile of sinkies aged 50 and above has less than 36k networth!!!!without a job they are practically dead!!!!!ur uncle and his colleaque managed to live to a ripe old age of 88 on their money?good for them!!!bravo???from what i can see the track record of the pioneer generation and baby boomers arent doing so good because more than 1/3rd of them are still cleaning toilets,clearing dishes and working at mcdonalds in their old age unable to retire!!!!


Sporeans are victims of the policies of the PAP. The PAP took care to pay themselves 1st world salaries while "lesser mortals" were told to live within their means & not to expect pay hikes. The PAP policies were also responsible for much of the inflation e.g. regular renovation of food courts, frequent bus fare hikes, COE, ...

As the largest landlord in Spore they started to jack up the rents in Spore.

Sporeans should have kicked out the PAP a long time ago but they have been brainwashed into thinking that all the problems that they face today is their fault & that LKY & the PAP is only interested in helping Sporeans.
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
In that case why not just abolish the CPF?after all its just a glorified savings account if u want ur money back at 55.government dont need to worry about peasant retirement or anything u die ur business,dont need any safety net or minimum insurance policy.after all whats to point of having my money sitting in a account for 30 years doing nothing when i can be using it to invest?u guys dunno how to save money urself in a milo tin or kong guan biscuit?

cpf is supposed to be a last resort safety net,cause u know there are many idiots out there in their forties and even fifties who have barely any savings or investments and are living from paycheck to paycheck?do u know the median networth of sinkies age 50 and above is 113k?that means half of them has less than 113k after working for 30 years and the bottom 25 percentile of sinkies aged 50 and above has less than 36k networth!!!!without a job they are practically dead!!!!!ur uncle and his colleaque managed to live to a ripe old age of 88 on their money?good for them!!!bravo???from what i can see the track record of the pioneer generation and baby boomers arent doing so good because more than 1/3rd of them are still cleaning toilets,clearing dishes and working at mcdonalds in their old age unable to retire!!!!

Just abolish the CPF....if anyone want to want their live life that way....even you give them $10 a day it would not be enough....the point is still this, I save that money till I retire....through my hard earn blood, sweat & tears..how & when & where I spend that money..now, later or tomorrow, some, half or all at once, now, tomorrow or somewhere down the road...THAT IS MY MONEY.

Why should a government be my nanny?....the argument that this age that age or who....do not have savings , spend it all or?....holds no water...I retire...GIVE ME BACK ALL MY MONEY...not a government that changes rules & regulations at aims & fancy & dictate & tell me, when I should have that money....

Give me back all my money at retirement....I bet they can't do that...they don't have that much to give....
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
While I appreciate your sharing of a good personal investment track record, when discussing policy you need to put on a macro hat, think at a strategic level and detach yourself from personal achievements and disappointments. It is also difficult to have clarity if you are mixing multiple issues loosely correlated and then attempting to do policy analysis at the same time. I will try to be brief as you brought up many areas that are not easy to go through easily on a forum.

- On the recommendations benefiting financial industry, I agree it's likely the case. Personally, I am against the CPFIS in the first place for reasons articulated earlier, so this new direction isn't really addressing the heart of the issue for me. But to be fair to the government, we have to bear in mind they are not forcing anyone to invest. Participants are more than welcome to leave their pension savings in the CPF without doing anything. It is in fact the default action if you choose to do nothing.

- It is good that your personal investments have been positive, but like mentioned earlier, this really isn't the consideration when it comes to policy discussions. Also do take note that rough rule of thumb in financial statistical analysis indicates you need 25 +/- years of track record before you can say with 95% confidence interval what you are experiencing is more attributable to skill then luck, 5 years is too short. The US market has been on a prolonged bull run from 2011 to now, you are in fact benefiting from a significant tail wind. S&P 500 + DivReinv has more than doubled and if you have owned individual small caps 3-5x return over the period is quite common as well.

- On experts working for CPF, we must bear in mind the CPF was not set up as a traditional pension fund with an in house fund management arm investing all over the world to generate real returns. There are no professionals working for the CPF doing fund management with a mandate to generate superior returns. For better or worse, the CPF invests all its proceeds in Singapore sovereign securities . This has the effect of lowering credit risks as opposed to broad based investments adopted by some other pension arrangements at the expense of having lower returns comensurating from a very conservative allocation. Whether this is the optimal approach is debatable, but it is inaccurate to characterize that CPF has a throng of investment professionals on the payroll and doing nothing while generating 'lousy' returns.

- On your forex management 'techniques', they are rudimentary but fit for purpose in your case. Like I said, this isn't really the point of discussion. On a professional/academic level, it is incorrect to compare straight forward returns of 2 completely different entities without context and anyone with a basic CFA/CIPM education will agree.

- Bottom line is CPF generates a low return which to date roughly matches the long term inflation rates. They are not fantastic, but neither are they sub-par unless the intention is to generate real returns which is altogether another frame of discussion.

- Just like any nation wide policy, there is bound to be a myriad of different opinions on how best to manage retirement savings on the national level. I wish there were more discussions on the committee and advisory level on the mission and purpose of CPF and its propostion as a tool for retirement. Currently it seems that the government is dictating a mandate that the underlying philosophy will not change and simply ordering a bunch of experts to suggest policy tweaks here and there. On the layman level, there's hardly any serious discussions ongoing except the usual clamoring for "higher returns" and wild conspiracy theories.


Maybe you should take a look at the following video on why an actively managed fund does not work. Don't forget that those appointed by the PAP are only paper scholars with minimal real world experience. Ho Ching who manages Temasek has very little financial experience. Her background was as an engineer at ST.

[video=youtube;zqa-jSuXmYw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqa-jSuXmYw[/video]

The PAP pays fund managers an extra ordinary amount of money because they are being paid for loyalty. They are also paid for who they are & not how they perform:rolleyes:

Passive investing is mathematically proven & is cheaper than active investing & does not require overpaid elites to be involved. Keeping overheads low would benefit CPF investors.
 
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