Property News

snowbird said:

A lot of people bother.All the marketing people had been selling Iskandar as an up and coming cosmopolitan city and many unsophisticated investors believed and came in.As for the jobs, unfortunately the lazy locals will not be interested in factory jobs and it'll go to foreign labour instead, mat rempits will continue to be mat rempits.

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If one prefer to be sheep, no one can help them. If they can be easily conned, it is their lack of sophiscation. Blame no one but themselves. I do not agree with what you term as mat rempits. All but one of my employees are local kampong Malays boys. And some of them had been with me for the last 15 years, joined as college boys until now their kids are in school.The parts they produced are as good as to be installed in Japanese OEMs or Swedish products. It is a matter of how you manage them.

snowbird said:

As I've said before several timers, this is the kind of industry Johor attracts and will be attracting - low-tech manufacturing, large cheap spaces for factories and warehousing, polluting, plenty of low-skilled and semi-skilled workers, etc.
Will to little to make JB a cosmopolitan city.

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snowbird said:

A lot of people bother.
All the marketing people had been selling Iskandar as an up and coming cosmopolitan city and many unsophisticated investors believed and came in.
As for the jobs, unfortunately the lazy locals will not be interested in factory jobs and it'll go to foreign labour instead, mat rempits will continue to be mat rempits.

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So what is the problem with that? It is a road many countries walked before. When US and Jap want to cost down decades ago, they went to Sg or Hk for cheap goods production. Also many factories that set up there mainly cater for local region economy eg Hersey or Super factory, production mainly supply to malaysia sg or indonesia...some even to other south east asia countries. Better to have no local so have to hire cheap foreign labour than let the factory set up in others countries, at least one still got spill over effect to move others servicing job along. If JB go straight to A* type of research jobs, even singapore will afraid...but then johor current development phase not that level yet la, havent walk ady want to fly liao...how can.

Actually having lower end jobs have no harm to the city inspiration to be the cosmopolitan, just the city GINI coefficient (rich poor disparity) will be higher, thats all. Even in a city, can have atas cluster, working cluster and poor cluster.

Just a low end job coming news, do not means high end job will go away or will not come forever and doesnt conflict at all with others jobs here....so what is the problem? Dont understand your point.

rotikok said:

So what is the problem with that? It is a road many countries walked before. When US and Jap want to cost down decades ago, they went to Sg or Hk for cheap goods production. Also many factories that set up there mainly cater for local region economy eg Hersey or Super factory, production mainly supply to malaysia sg or indonesia...some even to other south east asia countries. Better to have no local so have to hire cheap foreign labour than let the factory set up in others countries, at least one still got spill over effect to move others servicing job along. If JB go straight to A* type of research jobs, even singapore will afraid...but then johor current development phase not that level yet la, havent walk ady want to fly liao...how can.

Actually having lower end jobs have no harm to the city inspiration to be the cosmopolitan, just the city GINI coefficient (rich poor disparity) will be higher, thats all. Even in a city, can have atas cluster, working cluster and poor cluster.

Just a low end job coming news, do not means high end job will go away or will not come forever and doesnt conflict at all with others jobs here....so what is the problem? Dont understand your point.

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I was replying to some post so you have to read both posts to understand what I'm trying to say.
Since you don't understand my point, I repeat here in point form for easy understanding.

1. Marketing people are promoting Iskandar as one cosmopolitan city to be - New CDB, new HOSPA, new MICE venues, new mega malls, new RTS (goner now) , new etc, etc. will be happening soon!
But "soon" is relative term - which one, 5 years?, 10 years? 20 years is soon?
People were enticed to all this glamourous projections but in reality, what?
Isn't it time to wake up for some people?

2. If the type of industries coming to set up shop are mostly low tech industries, and if continue to be so, then there will be little knowledge transfer to benefit the locals.
Not all but if most companies coming to Iskandar are low tech manufacturing that need big factory space, plenty of cheap labour, so, where are you getting your high worth tenants to stay in all the new condos?
The one major industry that has plenty of high value, high worth tenants comes from the Fintech industry and this is totally not happening in Iskandar.
Look at the housing development in recent years, who are they targeting; in terms of cost, design and population projection, certainly not the locals.
Units sold do not mean it will be occupied because many were bought as investment so a large development with commercial space to cater to residents within mostly will be flops.
So, you have one big mismatch in terms of housing development and real demand, so those who are thinking of getting rentals to cover monthly instalment may be miserably disappointed.

And anyway, what you were arguing about is entirely out of context to what I was talking about.

snowbird said:

I was replying to some post so you have to read both posts to understand what I'm trying to say.Since you don't understand my point, I repeat here in point form for easy understanding.1. Marketing people are promoting Iskandar as one cosmopolitan city to be - New CDB, new HOSPA, new MICE venues, new mega malls, new RTS (goner now) , new etc, etc. will be happening soon!But "soon" is relative term - which one, 5 years?, 10 years? 20 years is soon?People were enticed to all this glamourous projections but in reality, what?Isn't it time to wake up for some people?2. If the type of industries coming to set up shop are mostly low tech industries, and if continue to be so, then there will be little knowledge transfer to benefit the locals.Not all but if most companies coming to Iskandar are low tech manufacturing that need big factory space, plenty of cheap labour, so, where are you getting your high worth tenants to stay in all the new condos?The one major industry that has plenty of high value, high worth tenants comes from the Fintech industry and this is totally not happening in Iskandar.Look at the housing development in recent years, who are they targeting; in terms of cost, design and population projection, certainly not the locals.Units sold do not mean it will be occupied because many were bought as investment so a large development with commercial space to cater to residents within mostly will be flops.So, you have one big mismatch in terms of housing development and real demand, so those who are thinking of getting rentals to cover monthly instalment may be miserably disappointed.And anyway, what you were arguing about is entirely out of context to what I was talking about.

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That's the way how Johore what to be develop. They choose to be slow and low cost. But I like it that way.Learn how to walk first before learning how to fly.

Trying to be too smart in too short a time will fall flat on the face.

Tekkun said:

That's the way how Johore what to be develop. They choose to be slow and low cost. But I like it that way.Learn how to walk first before learning how to fly.

Trying to be too smart in too short a time will fall flat on the face.

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What you are saying is in direct contradiction to what lskandar marketing people had been and is still touting loudly. If only they employ honest people like you to do the marketing, results will be so different, many not so smart investors would have avoided Iskanda altogether.

On the contrary, if one is not smart enough and goes in with eyes closed, he will not only fall on his face but worse,
may also break a limb or two.

snowbird said:

What you are saying is in direct contradiction to what lskandar marketing people had been and is still touting loudly. If only they employ honest people like you to do the marketing, results will be so different, many not so smart investors would have avoided Iskanda altogether.

On the contrary, if one is not smart enough and goes in with eyes closed, he will not only fall on his face but worse,
may also break a limb or two.

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You mean those investors are so stupid?
Don't blame the marketing people. They are doing their job.
If the buyers are stupid, then they should admit it. Stop the blame.

snowbird said:

What you are saying is in direct contradiction to what lskandar marketing people had been and is still touting loudly. If only they employ honest people like you to do the marketing, results will be so different, many not so smart investors would have avoided Iskanda altogether.

On the contrary, if one is not smart enough and goes in with eyes closed, he will not only fall on his face but worse,
may also break a limb or two.

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I can see that you have been very concerned about your fellow Sinkies bleeding money in Iskandar investments. Thanks for your concern but as a buyer of PH properties, I cant wait for my sea fronting units to be completed. Nothing beats relaxing next to the Straits / River / Ocean / long kang ( whatever u can call it ) and sipping in a cup of coffee over a lazy weekday or weekend. All at a fraction of the cost of Oceanfront.

Bo Bian. We are poor Sinkies who are afford Sentosa houses which are snapped up easily by the Super Rich PRC which the Singaporeans all love to kowtow to so much. Poor chaps like us gota be pushed up to JB to relax by the seaside.

Have anyone visited Victoria Park Villas? Almost S$5 million ( RM 15 million ) for a Semi-de which is not as spacious as our Semis in East Ledangs or HH. There is poor view and the design is just so-so. The location, being in a posh neighborhood, is still priced ridiculously high at S$5 million.

That's why I will never complain about my high rise priceless view units being priced at RM 2000psf and above. Its still bloody value for money compared to the houses in Singapore.

Investor888 said:

I can see that you have been very concerned about your fellow Sinkies bleeding money in Iskandar investments. Thanks for your concern but as a buyer of PH properties, I cant wait for my sea fronting units to be completed. Nothing beats relaxing next to the Straits / River / Ocean / long kang ( whatever u can call it ) and sipping in a cup of coffee over a lazy weekday or weekend. All at a fraction of the cost of Oceanfront.

Bo Bian. We are poor Sinkies who are afford Sentosa houses which are snapped up easily by the Super Rich PRC which the Singaporeans all love to kowtow to so much. Poor chaps like us gota be pushed up to JB to relax by the seaside.

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I hope cautioning people is not a crime.
Just concerning about people making wrong decision due to pushy and unscrupulous salespeople who only tell you nice stories or just being ignorant to certain facts.
Reminding people to come in with eyes opened and look out for invisible potholes, stating out certain facts not told by unethical salespeople so that people can make an informed choice and if people still disregard it, its their problem.
(Example like the Country Garden is actually build on a reclaimed dirty river mouth and not besides the Straits)
They don't have to be Singaporeans, it can be anyone of any nationality in this forum.
For someone like yourself who had made a choice to buy into Iskandar and enjoying your investment, good for you.
I had also made some money here in the earlier days and the property I have in JB now is actually free - bought with profits.
But those Johnny come lately dudes jumping on the band wagon after 2013 may not be so lucky.

snowbird said:

I hope cautioning people is not a crime.
Just concerning about people making wrong decision due to pushy and unscrupulous salespeople who only tell you nice stories or just being ignorant to certain facts.
Reminding people to come in with eyes opened and look out for invisible potholes, stating out certain facts not told by unethical salespeople so that people can make an informed choice and if people still disregard it, its their problem.
(Example like the Country Garden is actually build on a reclaimed dirty river mouth and not besides the Straits)
They don't have to be Singaporeans, it can be anyone of any nationality in this forum.
For someone like yourself who had made a choice to buy into Iskandar and enjoying your investment, good for you.
I had also made some money here in the earlier days and the property I have in JB now is actually free - bought with profits.
But those Johnny come lately dudes jumping on the band wagon after 2013 may not be so lucky.

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Property price appreciation is unpredictable and like all investments, it's hard to say what will happen in future.

Some people bought a S$500k HDB flat 6 years ago and people said they were crazy because it was too expensive. Today, the flat could be worth S$800k. No one will say they are crazy any more.

Will Iskandar condos be like that?

snowbird said:

As I've said before several timers, this is the kind of industry Johor attracts and will be attracting - low-tech manufacturing, large cheap spaces for factories and warehousing, polluting, plenty of low-skilled and semi-skilled workers, etc.
Will to little to make JB a cosmopolitan city.

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IBS is a newer method or technique in the building and construction industry that is gaining adoption albeit a bit slow.

Anyway, have a look at some of the investments in Johor in the doc here. I don't see they are low tech but of reasonable quality.

http://iskandarmalaysia.com.my/newsletter/IM BizWatch Feb 2016.pdf

sgtsk said:

IBS is a newer method or technique in the building and construction industry that is gaining adoption albeit a bit slow.

Anyway, have a look at some of the investments in Johor in the doc here. I don't see they are low tech but of reasonable quality.

http://iskandarmalaysia.com.my/newsletter/IM BizWatch Feb 2016.pdf

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IBS is actually prefabricated systems which has been widely used in Singapore already. The lightweight wall panels manufactured in JB now exported to Singapore on daily basis for putting up internal walls in HDBs and condos on every unit are IBS. The windows and doors are IBS. And they are not easy to manufacture and certainly not low tech. Cement wall panels are extruded by huge machines. They are not the type where you think using plywood formwork to do casting. Germany and Australians are leaders in these fields.

You can even have a entire bathroom complete with toilet bowls and tiles done IBS style. All it need to be done is to lift entire bathroom for fitting in the condo. Consistentcy at measurements and fittings are key to these mass produced systems. Cannot imagine the entire toilet lifted up to the 38th floor and found out the screw holes does not fit. The days where you need to build brick by brick and tile by tile for your toilets is slowly dying off.

Being high tech does not mean sitting in the air con office typing away on keyboards. Someone got to do the real hard physical stuff at the factories. Alibaba can sell billions of stuff. Where does those products come from? That's the fundamental one has to grasp.

mpan12 said:

Property price appreciation is unpredictable and like all investments, it's hard to say what will happen in future.

Some people bought a S$500k HDB flat 6 years ago and people said they were crazy because it was too expensive. Today, the flat could be worth S$800k. No one will say they are crazy any more.

Will Iskandar condos be like that?

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It might...except that it will be in RM!

snowbird said:

I hope cautioning people is not a crime.
Just concerning about people making wrong decision due to pushy and unscrupulous salespeople who only tell you nice stories or just being ignorant to certain facts.
Reminding people to come in with eyes opened and look out for invisible potholes, stating out certain facts not told by unethical salespeople so that people can make an informed choice and if people still disregard it, its their problem.
(Example like the Country Garden is actually build on a reclaimed dirty river mouth and not besides the Straits)
They don't have to be Singaporeans, it can be anyone of any nationality in this forum.
For someone like yourself who had made a choice to buy into Iskandar and enjoying your investment, good for you.
I had also made some money here in the earlier days and the property I have in JB now is actually free - bought with profits.
But those Johnny come lately dudes jumping on the band wagon after 2013 may not be so lucky.

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Good for you that you have already found your pot of gold at the end of the JB rainbow. But since time waits for no man...and we cannot jump back in time to pre-2013 days, so practically all who bought after 2013 are the JCL dudes liao who may not be so lucky but pathetically hope to be. :p

Frodo said:

Good for you that you have already found your pot of gold at the end of the JB rainbow. But since time waits for no man...and we cannot jump back in time to pre-2013 days, so practically all who bought after 2013 are the JCL dudes liao who may not be so lucky but pathetically hope to be. :p

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And there are lots of those that didn't plunge in post 2013 and saved their pot of gold

sgtsk said:

IBS is a newer method or technique in the building and construction industry that is gaining adoption albeit a bit slow.

Anyway, have a look at some of the investments in Johor in the doc here. I don't see they are low tech but of reasonable quality.

http://iskandarmalaysia.com.my/newsletter/IM BizWatch Feb 2016.pdf

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As "Tekkun" had already explained what is actually IBS, I shall not say more.
Such industries requires big factory space, big storage space for raw material and finished products, employment of huge heavy machineries and are classified under heavy industry category.
And such industries offer blue collar jobs like machine operators, production line workers, drivers, mechanics, electricians, etc. and takes up the bulk of workforce in the company.
A single factory can easily employ hundreds of low skilled and semi-skilled workers.
The top 10% will be the plant manager, production engineers, logistic supervisors, foremen, etc.
They may use very advanced technology and extremely sophisticated equipment in their production but basically, it is still under manufacturing, a low tech industry.
Ditto for biscuits, canned food and your daily bread manufacturing.

The situation in a high tech is entirely different.
An example of high tech industry on the other hand employs a very much higher proportion of skilled and professional in the company forming up to 80 to 90% of total workforce.
Products are also of high value and high worth.
A good example of this is the Lucasfilm in SG, a digital media company that does animation and special effects for movies like Star Wars, video games design and production etc. among many other things.
Employees under internship here are sent to HQ in the US for training (knowledge transfer) and given chance to learn from the masters and advance themselves in this field.

See the difference?

Frodo said:

Good for you that you have already found your pot of gold at the end of the JB rainbow. But since time waits for no man...and we cannot jump back in time to pre-2013 days, so practically all who bought after 2013 are the JCL dudes liao who may not be so lucky but pathetically hope to be. :p

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Just remember some of the golden rules -
Don't follow the herd, you'll end up part of the herd.
In the stock market, when everyone, including the office tea lady and the pasar veggie uncle is buying, its time to sell.
Whatever it is, invest cautiously and within your means.

So what if some investments attracted to Johor according to you are low tech? Some Singapore factories still pack and seal tea bags with stapler, bottling liquor, ...

The irony is that the many "high value" jobs do not go to S'poreans. Coupled with the few "low value" jobs which are not attractive to S'poreans, they found themselves between rock and a hard place:(

Thanks for great explanation! people should no longer think IBS is low tech. In fact I think IBS would eventually meets 3D printing if not already.