Economic News

Manhattan said:

Purely from own stay perspective, if you are a small family like only husband and wife, and in retirement age, my opinion is to go for condo. Main reasons are it's a lot more easier to maintain, and with your old age and low immune system, better to reduce the exposure to mosquitoes. Now got dengue and zika, dunno in a few years what else will be there. Do you want to end up switching on air con for the whole day to avoid mosquitoes? This is not a joke, a few of my landed friends are doing this in sg, sgd 600 per month for electricity.

Click to expand...

mpan12 said:

Wahh... How come you have changed your opinion? Thought you've always supported renting a property in Johor?

My opinions are below. But seems like I must clarify every time that these are strictly how I feel. Agree or not is not my problem to argue with anyone. Learn to respect. If anyone is angry, just walk away. Don't be an idiot by pushing your personal opinions on me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the jams at the causeway, we don't know the real reason unless we stand there and ask everyone why they are entering Johor. Otherwise, it's too easy to make assumptions SG is getting expensive so people are going there.

Seriously, total up the amount you can save by going over to Johor to shop and eat vis-a-viz your salary. How much do you save? Consider that you spend say 30 mins driving from your home to the causeway, 3-4 hours jam both ways, then maybe another 40 mins or so driving within JB, pay tolls, and face fatique from driving.

If you save S$100 (RM300 sounds good huh?) in this one trip, is it worth it? For me, it's not because I can earn more for the time and sweat I have to sacrifice on a weekend. But Singaporeans are known to spend their time uselessly waiting in queues to get some ridiculous Hello Kitty dolls, watching K dramas, sms-ing rubbish on the phones, playing Pokemon Go, or eat their favourite foods.

So those cars on the road could be just recreational families who don't mind waiting hours just to eat their favorite food, rather than desperate people trying to save money. In fact, I would think if the cost of living in SG is too much for them, why do they still own a car? That should be something they would be thinking of dumping.

Slowly and surely, Singaporeans will move over to Johor. But I think the number will remain insignificant compared to the resident population in SG. 5 years is too short a time for that to happen. Maybe 20-30 years later? But then again, that's too long a time frame and no one is right or wrong to predict anything.

If you look at prices of HDB flats back in the '80s, buyers could easily buy them from about S$30k to S$80k. If you could travel back in time, and tell people back then that in a few decades' time, smaller flats would typically cost $500k to a million$, they would say you are crazy and that no one can survive at that kind of prices. But look at today. Yes, people complain and complain, but isn't everyone still buying and owning their flats at those prices?

SG is still very much sustainable in the next 5 to 10 years. I don't know beyond that. I believe it should be. It's just that people have to manage their expectations. The perks of staying in a safe, strong, convenient country are too attractive to sacrifice moving to a foreign place like Johor. Now, this opinion is not just from me but from the many people I have been talking to since 2014 -- my friends, relatives, colleagues, retirees, strangers I meet at talks, Singaporeans, Chinese/Indian nationals, Malaysians, PRs, etc. So far, believe or not, ALL told me the same thing.

Bottom line is, no point comparing. There will always be more beautiful homes than yours. There will always be many a lot richer than us. Wealth and properties are things we can't take when we leave this world. Important thing is to be happy.

I also don't see how VEP will be a big game-changer. I see a contradiction in that statement actually. Now that you see many Singapore cars are going to JB and causing a jam at the causeway, you conclude this is due to the high cost of living. Then when VEP is implemented, and fewer cars go in to JB, does it mean the cost of living in SG has dropped? No it hasn't. So what do we conclude?

Move over to Johor if it's for personal reasons. Will many general Singaporeans go over because cost of living is rising in SG? I don't think so. Not in the next 5-10 years. The Singapore "spirit" of calling this country "home" is still very strong among not just Singaporeans but PRs and even foreigners!

Click to expand...

Frodo said:

Why are Singaporeans still going to JB despite the jams? In my view it is simply "Because it's so near and so cheap!" And for those with own cars, crossing the Causeway opens up a "whole new world" of exploratory adventure all the way up to Penang, and even forays into Thailand for the braver souls. Anyway, in my view, Johor itself is already a big playground. Whether Singapore is getting more and more expensive or not, the fact remains that JB is relatively cheaper on most things. And it is also the "feel" of JB, or as Brother Tekkun says, the charm of JB that has its allures.

As for people moving over to JB to stay, I agree with you that this would always be insignificant when you use the whole residential population of Singapore as denominator. Many people are contented to remain living in Singapore, even if there is discomfort or complaints about higher costs of living. But when connectivity improves, I am sure more Singaporeans will move over. Not most, but more. Do they hate Singapore? Hate is such a strong word to use, and I don't think it is warranted. People who hate Singapore will probably give up their citizenship, why still hold on to the pink IC, right? Rather, it would be people who prefer the cheaper things in life, or opt for a more lower cost of living. it's a lifestyle choice, not a hate decision.

Yes, people are still buying HDB flats today, just as our parents did in the 80s. But they do it by taking up full loans at maximum tenure. My father paid up our 3 rm HDB flat many years ago, and he regretted not buying a 4 rm flat because he was afraid he could not service the loan. And we are talking about around $20K then? Now we talking even bigger numbers!

Your job gives you the good things in life to enjoy, good for you. You should enjoy it as much as you can for as long as you can.

Click to expand...

rotikok said:

No need most, 10% sg household moving will already big impact. But it will not be happening until improve connectivity. My maximum tolerant time length to cross the strait is just 30min. I believe if that happen, what you said now will be wrong. No one know what would be happen for the next 10 yrs, but ppty investment involve risk n opportunity that are unknown no matter how hard you trying to reason now. If you want to be sure you are on the safe side, you will be paying the safe side price...definitely much higher now.

As for security, safety, convenient etc, sentiment would change over time, not as good as sg but not as bad as US. Iskandar is still growing at speed, thing still hard to judge, not confident to malaysia at least show some confidence to sultan. Say me desperately hoping it to be good, all i know is, when it is really that good, it would not be cheap like now.

Click to expand...

mpan12 said:

So near and cheap? Haha... Nope. I'm not going to Johor for those reasons. And my colleagues/friends and I are not frequent travelers there also. We go on a need-to-go basis. We have nothing against Johor. Neither do we take our cars and drive in cos it's so "near and cheap". Near but with jam? Cheap... how cheap? At the cost of time?

"Open a whole new world" or "playground" are just colorful descriptions. Singaporeans going into Johor is just one snapshot of lifestyle possibilities. I have 2 colleagues who go traveling to Australia and Japan every year with their families without fail. They love the countries so much. Some others go to famous Korea 2-3 times a year. There are many more brilliant ways to enjoy life. Not just driving in to Johor on the weekend.

I disagree with you that people who hate Singapore will necessarily have migrated. Some still stay here. Hating the country or government doesn't mean you have to, or can leave the place. It is not up to you to judge whether "hate" is a strong word or not. I just cite this as an example.

As for the HDB flat eg, I was trying to show that people are still buying. Life goes on. Happiness comes from inside. You enjoy Johor, people enjoy Europe. You enjoy living in a 2,500 sq ft Johor house, others still find love within the family living in a 1,000 sq ft HDB flat. You as a Singaporean send your kids to study in a school in Johor, Singaporean/Malaysian parents find great pride their kids are studying in Singapore schools. There's no right or wrong.

Haha... I don't know what you mean by "my job gives me good things in life to enjoy... so I should enjoy it for as long as I can". Lame! It's like me saying, since you enjoy your Johor house, you should enjoy staying in it for as long as it exists.

But just for the record, yup, my job is stable, it pays me well, I don't have to worry the cost of living here in SG is too high and so I need to move over to Johor. But I'm not arrogant about it. Johor is good in its own right. But SG has many strengths too.

Click to expand...

RedsYNWA said:

Actually I dont quite get it. Why do you keep talking about yourself? Frodo's point is that there will be a certain %, albeit small, maybe 5% of Singaporeans, who will move over to JB when connectivity has improved. I think there's certainly no doubt that this will happen, if and when ("big if" I know) connectivity improves. Not only that, there will be a huge internal migration to JB from other states as well, to live in JB and work in SG. This is already happening thanks to the 3x exchange rate.

You say that your job pays you well and give you a comfortable living standard, but is it good enough to let you stay in a 10,000 sq ft bungalow the size of Horizon Hills? Now, you may say that you dont fancy staying in a bungalow, but the point is that there will be scores of people who do fancy it, including my ex Singaporean classmate who works as a doctor in SG btw. Surely his job pays him well too? Why the need to move to Horizon Hills bungalow then?

For the record, I think my job pays me a fairly decent wage too (maybe not as high as your S$20k salary), but I have still bought a landed in JB, with an aim to "monetizing" my SG HDB and condo when I grow old. There will always be people who think differently from you. That's what makes the world interesting.

Click to expand...

mpan12 said:

Your words don't make sense. I never talk about myself. If you know me, that's not what I like to do. Read all the previous posts to know where I am coming from.

You want to move to a 100,000,000 sq ft house in Horizon Hills, go ahead! What's stopping you? What has my job got to do with it?

Click to expand...

RedsYNWA said:

Err.......not talking about yourself?

"But just for the record, yup, my job is stable, it pays me well, I don't have to worry the cost of living here in SG is too high and so I need to move over to Johor. But I'm not arrogant about it. Johor is good in its own right. But SG has many strengths too."

Click to expand...

mpan12 said:

So near and cheap? Haha... Nope. I'm not going to Johor for those reasons. And my colleagues/friends and I are not frequent travelers there also. We go on a need-to-go basis. We have nothing against Johor. Neither do we take our cars and drive in cos it's so "near and cheap". Near but with jam? Cheap... how cheap? At the cost of time?

"Open a whole new world" or "playground" are just colorful descriptions. Singaporeans going into Johor is just one snapshot of lifestyle possibilities. I have 2 colleagues who go traveling to Australia and Japan every year with their families without fail. They love the countries so much. Some others go to famous Korea 2-3 times a year. There are many more brilliant ways to enjoy life. Not just driving in to Johor on the weekend.

I disagree with you that people who hate Singapore will necessarily have migrated. Some still stay here. Hating the country or government doesn't mean you have to, or can leave the place. It is not up to you to judge whether "hate" is a strong word or not. I just cite this as an example.

As for the HDB flat eg, I was trying to show that people are still buying. Life goes on. Happiness comes from inside. You enjoy Johor, people enjoy Europe. You enjoy living in a 2,500 sq ft Johor house, others still find love within the family living in a 1,000 sq ft HDB flat. You as a Singaporean send your kids to study in a school in Johor, Singaporean/Malaysian parents find great pride their kids are studying in Singapore schools. There's no right or wrong.

Haha... I don't know what you mean by "my job gives me good things in life to enjoy... so I should enjoy it for as long as I can". Lame! It's like me saying, since you enjoy your Johor house, you should enjoy staying in it for as long as it exists.

But just for the record, yup, my job is stable, it pays me well, I don't have to worry the cost of living here in SG is too high and so I need to move over to Johor. But I'm not arrogant about it. Johor is good in its own right. But SG has many strengths too.

Click to expand...

Funniman said:

Kakakakakaka....so funni.
Salary people boasting he stay in 5* hotel. Sibeh sia suay. Say lah he pay on his own then only can hao lian lor.
Can run how far? LOL

Click to expand...

Tekkun said:

Let's forget about properties. This is something for a change.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

SINGAPORE - Dinner took a stomach-churning turn for Mr Quek Yong Pheng, 38, on Monday (Sept 5) evening, when he and his group of friends found a dead rat in their soup.

However, Mr Raymond Tan, 53, the owner of Sin Yew Huat Eating House in Jalan Besar, said the coffeeshop premises are kept clean, and has denied that there are rats there.
Mr Quek, who runs his own auto shop, told The Straits Times that each of the eight diners ordered a bowl of soup at the popular Kong Kee Mutton Soup in Jalan Besar.

One of his friends was very full, and fished out what was thought to be a piece of mutton, to put in another friend’s bowl. "It (the rodent) was right on top and we saw that it was a rat," he said, adding: "My friend went to the road side and started to vomit."
The owner came over, apologised and gave them a refund on their dinner, which amounted to around $42

Mr Quek said that she told the group the rodent might have fallen from the rafters into the pot of soup in the kitchen.
He said that although he made a public Facebook post about the incident, he did not think it was necessary to alert the National Environment Agency (NEA) because no one in the group had suffered any lasting ill effects from the extra ingredient in their soup.
"But my friends told me to report it to the NEA," Mr Quek said, "so that at least the rats can be cleared away from the stall before any other customers consume it."

When The Straits Times visited the stall on Tuesday afternoon, there were no rats in sight. The stall owner, a woman who did not want to be named, said that they practice high standards of hygiene.He added that he saw the stall owner continue to dish out soup to customers at other tables.

"We clean the place three times every day, when we open, at midday, and at closing time. I never see any rats around, so I also don't know where it came from."

She explained that when she cooks her mutton soup, the ingredients are placed aside in bowls, with the large pot of soup beside it.
"If there's a rat, I would have noticed it while preparing the ingredients," she said. She was alerted to the rat after a commotion at the table.
Miss Zhang Ying Hong, 40, a member of staff from the stall, said: "My boss came over and said sorry and gave them a refund."
Mr Tan said NEA officers had come down to inspect the premises earlier. "They told me to engage pest control, and also to head down to their office to get my statement taken."

He added that the stall owners and staff there keep the place clean, and the stalls and toilets are washed often. The mutton soup stall has been running for 20 years, and never had a record of rats, according to Mr Tan, who has been in the coffeeshop business all his life, since his father first opened a coffeeshop in the 1950s.

Responding to queries from The Straits Times, the NEA said it is aware of the incident and is investigating, and will take the necessary enforcement action against any parties found responsible for rat infestation.

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/customers-rat-tled-by-extra-ingredient-in-mutton-soup

Click to expand...

xebay11 said:

Johor so many such cases go unreported lah, strange that you post this hor. All the much vaunted cheap food recommended by forummers here in Johor definitely cannot pass Singapore NEA inspections, anyway they all probably don't mind eating a rat or two, just to save a few bucks ha ha ha ha ha

Remember my views, if Singapore is bad then Johor is always worse.

Click to expand...

xebay11 said:

Remember my views, if Singapore is bad then Johor is always worse.

Click to expand...

Frodo said:

Not entirely true lah. High cost of living is not good. So if Singapore has high cost of living, JB does not have even higher cost of living.:p

Click to expand...

xebay11 said:

Anything else is true lah.

Click to expand...

Frodo said:

Singapore have COEs for cars, which is bad for many people because it is only valid for 10 years and cost a lot, but the car can still be relatively new or low in mileage at end of 10 years which can then be renewed for another 10 years. JB is even worst because there is no COE, thus the car can use for as long as you want but by then the car can be very old and worn down.

Click to expand...