Economic News

sgcount said:

You bought before 2005. So you're lucky! (By my definition). I dare say those who bought their HDB flats then, no matter how jialat, even if you sell now, it is impossible or extremely unlikely you will lose money. You're looking at a 6-figure sum profit.

You've been collecting rental for some time now. That is already money in your pocket. And work out the sums properly. I doubt you will have zero left even if you have to put it back into your CPF.

And remember, although you return money back to your CPF, it is still your money. No choice as the SG government wants everyone to be self-sufficient.

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Darn! I must be really unlucky! Based on average transacted selling prices, if there is any profits to be made at all, only 5 figure profits which is no where near $99,999! Ya, while I am getting rental, it is to go to other people's pockets because still need to service MY housing and car loans. After that, what's left is peanuts...not NKF kind of peanuts!:(

eric3417 said:

Actually Frodo, it(CPF) might not be of any immediate use/help to u/family at all right now. But it's a fact longevity is increasing.
And cost of living will only go up. So come 65 those monthly payouts will come in handy thou it's easily decades later to bear fruit.
In meantime, those locked up funds will generate decent up to 5% interest pa. Compounded, it can be a decent Retirement Nest egg.
See it as another source of forced savings to give u additional passive income come old age to enjoy your Twilight years.
In meantime eat well & stay active. No health nothing else matters.

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Actually my point is that selling away the HDB unit does not necessary mean can make a big pile of money and keep it in pocket. I am such an example lor....:(

Frodo said:

Darn! I must be really unlucky! Based on average transacted selling prices, if there is any profits to be made at all, only 5 figure profits which is no where near $99,999! Ya, while I am getting rental, it is to go to other people's pockets because still need to service MY housing and car loans. After that, what's left is peanuts...not NKF kind of peanuts!:(

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I'm surprised. Did you check the latest price your flat can fetch? Without going into details, maybe yours is at some far flung area in SG? But at least it's still profits and you got it at a manageable price. Many young workers who bought after 2005 had it tough. Prices shot up. No thanks to the SG govt. My colleague's neighbor suffered -S$60k when it was sold a few months ago.

When you get rental profits from your flat, it doesn't matter how much it is or what you use the money for. It's still a positive gain and you can't discount it from your calculation.

sgcount said:

I'm surprised. Did you check the latest price your flat can fetch? Without going into details, maybe yours is at some far flung area in SG? But at least it's still profits and you got it at a manageable price. Many young workers who bought after 2005 had it tough. Prices shot up. No thanks to the SG govt. My colleague's neighbor suffered -S$60k when it was sold a few months ago.

When you get rental profits from your flat, it doesn't matter how much it is or what you use the money for. It's still a positive gain and you can't discount it from your calculation.

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When many people sell their HDB flats, as many expect to reap at least a six-figure profit to consider as good.
There are also many in the older suburban estate like Marine Parade, Eunos, Clementi, etc. still refusing to move away despite the fact that they can collect as much as S$300K for their 3rm flat bought for less than S$20,000.

Make sense only if one sell the hdb and move to studio flat for the old folks or migrate. Imagine making a 300k profit by selling the 1000sqft hdb and then move to an equivalent condo unit, will end up with another 800k loan to service. Or move to a new bto for similar prices, not too bad since its new, like trading in for a new unit, but usually location is not so good.

snowbird said:

When many people sell their HDB flats, as many expect to reap at least a six-figure profit to consider as good.
There are also many in the older suburban estate like Marine Parade, Eunos, Clementi, etc. still refusing to move away despite the fact that they can collect as much as S$300K for their 3rm flat bought for less than S$20,000.

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That's what I told my aged parents, they are sitting on gold mine....but they do not want to move...life is simple and cozy.

Manhattan said:

Make sense only if one sell the hdb and move to studio flat for the old folks or migrate. Imagine making a 300k profit by selling the 1000sqft hdb and then move to an equivalent condo unit, will end up with another 800k loan to service. Or move to a new bto for similar prices, not too bad since its new, like trading in for a new unit, but usually location is not so good.

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Or go JB and buy a nice 1+1 fully furnished condo unit along the straits view for less than $200k and still have $100k to eat.

sgcount said:

I'm surprised. Did you check the latest price your flat can fetch? Without going into details, maybe yours is at some far flung area in SG? But at least it's still profits and you got it at a manageable price. Many young workers who bought after 2005 had it tough. Prices shot up. No thanks to the SG govt. My colleague's neighbor suffered -S$60k when it was sold a few months ago.

When you get rental profits from your flat, it doesn't matter how much it is or what you use the money for. It's still a positive gain and you can't discount it from your calculation.

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I did check the internet for recent transacted prices. My house is not in far flung place, but also not very near to MRT. Not here not there...house also more than 30 years old...so I cannot expect much....yes the rental income is very useful for paying the mortgage in JB.

Frodo said:

Or go JB and buy a nice 1+1 fully furnished condo unit along the straits view for less than $200k and still have $100k to eat.

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That's not too wise an idea la, might as well buy a 2rm in SG where they are familiar with and still have more than S$200K to eat!
Why relocate them to a totally unfamiliar place where they can't or worse, dare not move around on their own especially for things like going to see a doctor etc.

So you see, only in SG where you can have the choice to cash out with a huge sum of money to decide what to do with it, can you tell me any other country that can offer you this opportunity?
You have that choice!

snowbird said:

When many people sell their HDB flats, as many expect to reap at least a six-figure profit to consider as good.
There are also many in the older suburban estate like Marine Parade, Eunos, Clementi, etc. still refusing to move away despite the fact that they can collect as much as S$300K for their 3rm flat bought for less than S$20,000.

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They can't or won't move away because despite the seemingly huge gain in profits, they must still find another place in SG to live in. And property prices elsewhere have risen too much in recent times. So while an owner may gain $300k - $20k = $280k, if he upgrades to another flat that costs $400k, he not only has to let go all those earnings, he is about another $120k in debt!

Manhattan said:

Make sense only if one sell the hdb and move to studio flat for the old folks or migrate. Imagine making a 300k profit by selling the 1000sqft hdb and then move to an equivalent condo unit, will end up with another 800k loan to service. Or move to a new bto for similar prices, not too bad since its new, like trading in for a new unit, but usually location is not so good.

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Ya, makes sense only if one downgrades. Singapore properties are misleading in a certain sense. Although many buyers seem to have made good money even from their flats, the high property prices of today will cause them to lose all that profits once they buy a new home.

Many agents use cunning tactics to fool some buyers. Business is bad. So now they are telling HDB flat owners, Look your flat has made so much profit since you bought it. For eg, you bought at $200k 10 years ago. It's now $500k. $300k "profits"! Good time to sell now. Go buy a condo. "Upgrade" your lifestyle. (The truth is, to me, it's a big downgrade!)

So the owner foolishly lets go the flat, buys a new condo for $800k. But the size is much smaller, got useless huge balcony and air-con ledge as part of the floor area, and owner has to pay much higher maintenance fees every month. Worst part, he finds himself in another $300k debt! For living in a smaller area!

In the meantime, agent laughs his way to the bank.

Frodo said:

I did check the internet for recent transacted prices. My house is not in far flung place, but also not very near to MRT. Not here not there...house also more than 30 years old...so I cannot expect much....yes the rental income is very useful for paying the mortgage in JB.

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Oh... sounds like you bought it resale. So the price back then might have gone up already. Also because it's rather old liao....

sgcount said:

They can't or won't move away because despite the seemingly huge gain in profits, they must still find another place in SG to live in. And property prices elsewhere have risen too much in recent times. So while an owner may gain $300k - $20k = $280k, if he upgrades to another flat that costs $400k, he not only has to let go all those earnings, he is about another $120k in debt!

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Then one has to find the best alternative for themselves.
Someone from my workplace, a classic example -
Couple in their 60s, children all moved out from the AMK 5rm flat.
Sold flat for S$700K, bought studio flat for S$95K, left with S$600K+.
Spend less than S$20K for renovation and some furniture, plus their CPF and savings, they have about S$1mil in cash!.
They are now a happy couple and can go for holidays anywhere whenever they want to and best of all, less area to clean everyday.

snowbird said:

Then one has to find the best alternative for themselves.
Someone from my workplace, a classic example -
Couple in their 60s, children all moved out from the AMK 5rm flat.
Sold flat for S$700K, bought studio flat for S$95K, left with S$600K+.
Spend less than S$20K for renovation and some furniture, plus their CPF and savings, they have about S$1mil in cash!.
They are now a happy couple and can go for holidays anywhere whenever they want to and best of all, less area to clean everyday.

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Good example, but it can be improved on. At sixties, generally the health has started to deteriorate after working the whole life, so could not fully enjoy the newfound financial freedom. I would suggest to achieve this stage at early fifties to fully enjoy the final stage of the life.

snowbird said:

Then one has to find the best alternative for themselves.
Someone from my workplace, a classic example -
Couple in their 60s, children all moved out from the AMK 5rm flat.
Sold flat for S$700K, bought studio flat for S$95K, left with S$600K+.
Spend less than S$20K for renovation and some furniture, plus their CPF and savings, they have about S$1mil in cash!.
They are now a happy couple and can go for holidays anywhere whenever they want to and best of all, less area to clean everyday.

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As inspiring as this example may be, and good for them, it is of little consolation to those not born in the early era where people at that time bought their HDBs at $20-$40K which are also big. These people are in their 60s or 70s, but what about those in their late 30s or 40s?

sgcount said:

Oh... sounds like you bought it resale. So the price back then might have gone up already. Also because it's rather old liao....

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Yep...bought resale. Maybe should have been born 30 years earlier...maybe still got chance to sell early HDBs forn $700k and earn $600K super profits. I mean, the point is that HDB will not be huat for everyone, or maybe I just damn unlucky lor. :(

snowbird said:

That's not too wise an idea la, might as well buy a 2rm in SG where they are familiar with and still have more than S$200K to eat!
Why relocate them to a totally unfamiliar place where they can't or worse, dare not move around on their own especially for things like going to see a doctor etc.

So you see, only in SG where you can have the choice to cash out with a huge sum of money to decide what to do with it, can you tell me any other country that can offer you this opportunity?
You have that choice!

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May not be that bad also. Some of the condos are smack in areas where clinics and food and minimarts are just a road across.

Frodo said:

Yep...bought resale. Maybe should have been born 30 years earlier...maybe still got chance to sell early HDBs forn $700k and earn $600K super profits. I mean, the point is that HDB will not be huat for everyone, or maybe I just damn unlucky lor. :(

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I even unluckier than you lor.... I still have years to pay off my HDB flat which I am living in and not making rental profits like you. :( I bought it after 2005 where prices all rocketed up by a lot. Some more you got big house in Johor to sleep in, and a condo in future as another holiday home.

I am a pauper. I should have been born 40 years ago.... :(

sgcount said:

I even unluckier than you lor.... I still have years to pay off my HDB flat which I am living in and not making rental profits like you. :( I bought it after 2005 where prices all rocketed up by a lot. Some more you got big house in Johor to sleep in, and a condo in future as another holiday home.

I am a pauper. I should have been born 40 years ago.... :(

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Haiz...maybe we should have all been born 40 years earlier! Then maybe will huat gao gao from selling HDB.

Ya. That's why I said unless one downgrades (buy smaller sized flat or move to the outlying areas in SG), all those "profits" mean nothing as newer flats cost a lot more than what those profits can cover. Don't need to even talk about buying the crazy, expensive condos in SG.

If one thinks hard enough, he can see that the government has cunningly and cleverly used HDB flats to keep lots of money circulating within the country.

At one point, especially after 2005, the govt imported lots more immigrants and gave them citizenship to buy flats to compete with locally born Singaporeans. Not only that, they restricted the building of BTO flats. Demand rose, supply dropped, naturally prices started to climb up.

Instead of solving the big problem, they allowed private developers to design, build, and price HDB flats at unjustified prices. How could they have allowed profit-making private companies to build PUBLIC flats?!! This of course further increased the flat prices even more than necessary. Many of such flats are already hitting close to or exceed S$1mil! So like an eco-system, all other flat prices went up accordingly.

Although some think Wow, shiok, the PAP is helping me make money! But that profit is not realized until you sell your flat. But you can't just sell and live in the streets. When you buy another flat, your profit is all thrown to the new property. You got to further take up new HDB loan, be in debt, so govt earns more money from you. When the younger ones buy new BTO flats, they also have to take up loans, prices of flats have increased a lot, so govt makes money from here also.

So end result is, owners can't enjoy or see the profits. The money just gets circulated around but the one who gets to enjoy it is none other than the govt. No wonder they can pay themselves S$10,000 a day in salary.

Cunning huh this PAP?

snowbird said:

Then one has to find the best alternative for themselves.
Someone from my workplace, a classic example -
Couple in their 60s, children all moved out from the AMK 5rm flat.
Sold flat for S$700K, bought studio flat for S$95K, left with S$600K+.
Spend less than S$20K for renovation and some furniture, plus their CPF and savings, they have about S$1mil in cash!.
They are now a happy couple and can go for holidays anywhere whenever they want to and best of all, less area to clean everyday.

Click to expand...