LTK on the impossibility of unity

Good summary metalmickey.

metalmickey said:

Basically, just like section live firing. Stay in your own lane, don't cross fire. Don't need to cluster fuck. You whack the PAP from 1 direction, I whack the PAP from another direction, we don't whack each other, everybody is happy. We don't stir up shit with each other. We say nice things about each other in public, if at all. We respect each other. If we work together today it doesn't mean that we'll work together tomorrow. If we don't work together today, it doesn't mean we won't work together tomorrow.

Concerning unity, there are two types of opposition party unity. One is the unity within a party, and another is the unity between parties. LTK knows that to get a party to pull together is really difficult, and he is correct in not wanting to care about the unity between parties. His speech, if you read between the lines, means that of utmost concern to him is the unity within a party, and as long as he takes care of that, he would have done enough for "opposition unity".

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In the GE, an opposition pact to avoid 3 or more corner fights is necessary to wrest power from the PAP. In a BE, the opposition party that previously contested in that ward should have the opportunity. The other two parties that jumped in are just opportunistic. So much for Opposition unity.

SgParent said:

Stop dreaming lah. You think SPP will work with SDP, RP with NSP and anyone with SDA?

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Never say never. A lot of the old baggage between parties can be put aside if the young guard can take over leadership. FPTP favours size over small, fragmented parties. Either you grow your party big organically, or you join hands.

winnipegjets said:

In the GE, an opposition pact to avoid 3 or more corner fights is necessary to wrest power from the PAP. In a BE, the opposition party that previously contested in that ward should have the opportunity. The other two parties that jumped in are just opportunistic. So much for Opposition unity.

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No one ever thought that replacing the PAP as a govt was on the cards. Where the heck did you get that from? People sat down only because they wanted to ensure that ALL divisions were contested. In the event, bar the fiasaco for Tanjong Pagar, that is what happened.

dredd said:

He is a very shrewd and tactical politician.

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Agree, probably the shrewdest politician in Singapore today, apart from the doddering old fart.

with so many clowns and idiots ni the other parties, how to have unity.

Basically Chee is a 'mole' lah. He has made the opposition movement back by 20 yrs!!!! He's responsible and PAPi should be thankful to him. When SDP was getting strong, he went in and tore it apart killing the dream of fellow Singaporeans then. Then opp left with 2 in parl so no more threat, someone decided that he didnt have to contest against his master so decided what better way but to disqualify him from election by putting him temporarily to sleep ie bankrupt. Now opp look strong again, he's released to do the same task again but albeilt not so easy this time cos ppl know him already. So he got a rude 'shock' from within....Papi need another 2 terms ie 10yrs and they dun really have to worry about the voices of Singaporeans anymore cos population would have hit 7m and Singa will be minority!!! The great old man once said why we need election...must devise something to make election just a 'motion'. WP is threading right direction by been cautious and tactful same time progressing....kip it up. Was there last nite and must say PE atmoshpere just like Hougang. Once won can be merge with Aljunied and Hougang to form a mega GRC! under one town council!!!

metalmickey said:

Basically, just like section live firing. Stay in your own lane, don't cross fire. Don't need to cluster fuck. You whack the PAP from 1 direction, I whack the PAP from another direction, we don't whack each other, everybody is happy. We don't stir up shit with each other. We say nice things about each other in public, if at all. We respect each other. If we work together today it doesn't mean that we'll work together tomorrow. If we don't work together today, it doesn't mean we won't work together tomorrow.

Concerning unity, there are two types of opposition party unity. One is the unity within a party, and another is the unity between parties. LTK knows that to get a party to pull together is really difficult, and he is correct in not wanting to care about the unity between parties. His speech, if you read between the lines, means that of utmost concern to him is the unity within a party, and as long as he takes care of that, he would have done enough for "opposition unity".

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You mouse, for once i agree with you. As an Infantry Sec Com in service. I fully agree with your analogy with life firing exercises.

yellowarse said:

Yes, LTK has made it clear. You fight your battle, we fight ours. It's his prerogative to reject unity. So be it.

I guess any opposition alliance in future will have to be between non-WP opposition parties. 3CF (oppo alliance vs WP vs PAP) will likely become a fixture of the political landscape hence.

Sorry, I don't consider intra-party unity a form of opposition unity. It is a given that any organization, party or company needs unity to remain intact and grow. Every party leader naturally works hard for intra-party unity, has to. Are they all then proponents of 'opposition unity'?

Saying intra-party unity is opposition unity is like saying national unity is the same as family unity, that if you're for a united family, you're for national unity. Plain fallacy.

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There won't be a grand alliance of any sort. Even SDP didn't want to join SDA and they didn't respond positively to TJS overture of forming an alliance.

If WP can build a 2 party system, then WP intra-party unity will become opposition unity.

marjojohn said:

Basically Chee is a 'mole' lah.

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Please lah, Chee makes even a mole look bad. The ISD would have sacked him a long time ago.

He's just very idealistic, direct, and totally lacks political acumen, hence all his bungling through the years. Also, being westernized, he's not clued in to the subtleties of Asian culture and 'face', something which comes naturally to people like LTK.

eatshitndie said:

it basically means opposition parties are fucked in sg, and that includes wp. if it takes 30 years to get where he and the party is today, it will take a few more decades and his entire old age or possibly his trip to the grave before wp can secure a sizable presence, you can forget majority, in parliament. i have pointed out that party politics in sg is patriarchal, and if low goes, so does the present era and soul of the party. a wp without low will be a very different party altogether. same can be said of pap when old fart farts his last.

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yup truly fucked. 30 yrs and still co-driver. But barely a co-driver also.. But the rest are worst la.

3_M said:

If WP can build a 2 party system, then WP intra-party unity will become opposition unity.

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A big 'if'. But WP has never hidden the fact that it fancies itself developing into the major opposition party in a 2-party system.

GE2016 is shaping up to be a very interesting battleground, and I beginning to think that 3CF, or even MCF will become the norm in future elections.

He is just panicking when he realised that the Lian's 40% did include SDP, RP supporters and even SDA supporters who had to sideline Desmond Lim for the common good. Now they may shift back to Desmond or to KJ.

tanwahp said:

One, he has said it before if people bothered to remember.

Two, it is not a key issue. To me housing and transport are the main issues. Opposition unity is opposition's problem, nothing to do with a voter like me.

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Desmond was there first. Desmond was still there last election. He slogged for PE while the Lian went to the greener pastures in Aljunied. Now got seat she wants to come back.

She should just fuck off.

winnipegjets said:

In the GE, an opposition pact to avoid 3 or more corner fights is necessary to wrest power from the PAP. In a BE, the opposition party that previously contested in that ward should have the opportunity. The other two parties that jumped in are just opportunistic. So much for Opposition unity.

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yellowarse said:

A big 'if'. But WP has never hidden the fact that it fancies itself developing into the major opposition party in a 2-party system.

GE2016 is shaping up to be a very interesting battleground, and I beginning to think that 3CF, or even MCF will become the norm in future elections.

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It really up to the rest of opposition parties to decide how our political system evolve. At the way thing goes, they deserve to be replace by WP and I don't think most people will have sympathy on them.

For the first time, I think Field Marshall (minus 9 ranks) Goh Meng Seng is right.

cheekenpie said:

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3_M said:

It really up to the rest of opposition parties to decide how our political system evolve. At the way thing goes, they deserve to be replace by WP and I don't think most people will have sympathy on them.

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Problem is all opposition claim to fight for our interests. But most of the time they don't even know what our interests are.

cheekenpie said:

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It was the SDP under Chiam?

cheekenpie said:

Problem is all opposition claim to fight for our interests. But most of the time they don't even know what our interests are.

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SDP at least realized in the end that what matters is what the people want.
Obviously RP and SDA don't.