• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

LTK on the impossibility of unity

OverTheCounter

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
"During this by-election, before nomination day, the Worker’s Party was accused of being arrogant and dismissive of other opposition parties who wanted to contest Punggol East, and showed no concern about opposition unity.
.
Tonight, I shall talk to you about the problems regarding opposition unity. (Crowd applause, beat drums)
.
Firstly, if the opposition parties were able to unite, Singapore today would not have so many political parties.
.
To register and helm a political party is not difficult. But to dig one’s heels into the ground and persevere is not that easy.
.
Before and after our nation’s independence, there were already many political parties. But those that have persisted to this day, and have thrived and progressed, apart from the People’s Action Party, is only the Worker’s Party! (Very loud crowd applause and cheers)
.
Under the political climate of PAP’s one-party dominance, for the other parties to lift their heads high and grow, is a very, very difficult thing.
.
I joined the Worker’s Party in 1982. It was only after close to 30 years that I managed to see a little bit of advancement made! (Crowd applause)
.
I’ve interacted with a lot of Worker’s Party supporters. They wish to see Singapore develop democratically. But they are often disheartened, because the opposition is often bogged down with problems. I understand their disappointment.
.
The opposition parties are actually very complex, with different personalities, different leaders, different approaches.
.
The year 1991 can be considered a big step in our nation’s democratic development. At that time, we had four opposition MPs in Parliament. The Singapore Democratic Party was the strongest party. However, later the SDP went into strife. In the 1997 election, the PAP took the opportunity to lump all the opposition parties together, and use a single bamboo stick to knock down the entire ship! (Crowd applause)
.
At the end, four opposition MPs was reduced to just two. After that, the strength of the opposition parties went downhill.
.
After the 1997 elections, the WP decided to go its own way. Later, some opposition parties formed the Singapore Democratic Alliance. The WP also decided not to join them. (Drum beats and whistles)
.
In Singapore, anyone can form a political party and contest elections. All political parties have different directions and ideals, they won’t necessarily have the same views and approaches to policies. On the issue of what kind of opposition party is most beneficial for Singapore, the views are also divided.
.
Therefore, given Singapore’s current political climate, to want all the opposition parties to form a unified force is an impossible goal.
.
As the saying goes, “道不同,不相為謀”.
.
Political parties are like people — if they have different inclinations yet you force them to be together, what would be the outcome? Not only will there not be joy, but there will be misunderstandings.
.
Regarding opposition unity, the fear is that eventually, not only will they be unable to advance together, but they will splinter and become fragmented.
.
This kind of outcome will only make the people again lose faith in the opposition and become an impediment in Singapore’s democratic progress. (Drum beats and whistles)
.
The Worker’s Party insists on going its own path, a difficult path that has been criticized — this is not arrogance, nor is it a disrespect to other contestants, but is instead to avoid history repeating itself, to avoid disappointing the people again, to avoid unnecessarily hurting the people! (Very loud crowd applause and cheers)
.
The Worker’s Party aims to be a respectable, rational political party. We place importance on each election. The trust and support of voters are always reminders to us not to let them down."
 
Last edited:

metalmickey

Alfrescian
Loyal
Basically, just like section live firing. Stay in your own lane, don't cross fire. Don't need to cluster fuck. You whack the PAP from 1 direction, I whack the PAP from another direction, we don't whack each other, everybody is happy. We don't stir up shit with each other. We say nice things about each other in public, if at all. We respect each other. If we work together today it doesn't mean that we'll work together tomorrow. If we don't work together today, it doesn't mean we won't work together tomorrow.

Concerning unity, there are two types of opposition party unity. One is the unity within a party, and another is the unity between parties. LTK knows that to get a party to pull together is really difficult, and he is correct in not wanting to care about the unity between parties. His speech, if you read between the lines, means that of utmost concern to him is the unity within a party, and as long as he takes care of that, he would have done enough for "opposition unity".
 
Last edited:

loneshark

Alfrescian
Loyal
An excerpt of LTK's speech in Chinese. Copied from here :http://wp.sg/2013/01/22-jan-2013-punggol-east-by-election-speech-by-low-thia-khiang-english/
Highlights added by me.

从政这么多年来,2011年大选以后,我有被前后夹攻的感觉。前面所面对的是行动党,背后则是各种各类的批评和似是而非的各种指责,尤其在互联网上。欲加之罪,何患无词。

例如,在这次补选提名日之前,工人党就被指责高傲,不顾其他反对党要参选的意愿,不为反对党阵营的团结着想。我今晚就和大家谈谈反对党团结的问题

首先,如果反对党阵营能够团结的话,那新加坡今天就不会有那么多的政党。组织和注册一个政党不难,要能够持续运作,坚持下去则没那么简单。我国在独立的前后就已经有不少政党,但生存到现在而还活跃、而且有进展的,除了行动党,就剩下工人党。

在行动党一党专政的新加坡政治环境里,其他的政党要能够抬头和成长,是一件非常非常不容易的事情。我在1982年从政,加入工人党,接近30年的今天才看到工人党有一定的起色。我接触过许多支持反对党的人,希望看到新加坡民主有所进展的人,他们常常感到痛心,恨铁不成钢,因为反对党阵营总是出现种种的状况。我理解他们的失望与期待。

反对党其实是一个很复杂的阵营。不同的人,不同的领导,不同的问政方式。1991年可算是现代新加坡民主进程最令人鼓舞的时代,当时国会里有4位反对党议员,新加坡民主党是最强的政党。可是,后来,民主党闹分裂。在1997年的大选,行动党就趁机把所有的反对党都捆绑在一起, 一枝竹竿打翻一船人,大选结果是4个反对党议员只剩下2个,之后反对党士气一落千丈。

从1997年大选以后,工人党就决定走自己的路。后来好些反对党成立了新加坡民主联盟,工人党也决定不加入

新加坡是个民主国家,任何人都能创立政党参加竞选。每个政党都有不同的方向和理想,即使都对政策有意见,也不一定有同样的想法和做法。 此外,对于怎样的反对党和政治的模式才对新加坡最有利,才适合我们的国情也不一定会有一致的意见。所以,以新加坡目前的政治状况,要所有反对党团结成为一股力量是个不可行的概念。

俗话说:“道不同,不相为谋。”政党和人一样,如果性格不同却勉强在一起,后果会如何呢?不但不会幸福,还会误人误事。所谓的反对党团结,只怕到最后不但不能同步前进,反而落到四分五裂的地步。这样的结果只会让人民再次对反对党失去信心,成为新加坡民主发展的绊脚石

工人党坚持走自己要走的路,一条备受批评的崎岖路,不是高傲,也不是不尊重其他的参政者;而是为了避免历史重演,避免再次让人民失望,避免再次对,为了建设民主机制,努力无私付出的国人,造成伤害

工人党誓言做个受人尊重,有理性和负责任的政党。我们重视每个选举,选民的信任和支持更时时提醒我们不能辜负选民的委托。

大家可以看到,刚刚起步的工人党,在2011年大选以后,就发生了很多事情。不少有心人都在等着看戏。后港补选的时候就有人想要通过各种手段制造工人党发生分裂的现象,打击新加坡人对工人党的信心。

不过,这些小人白费心机了,我们越过了种种的障碍,继续成长。但是,这个成长过程还是需要大家的大力扶持。所以,我希望榜鹅东的选民能协助工人党,使工人党能发展成为一股政治力量,能够平衡行动党,不让行动党继续专横下去,为所欲为;使新加坡的民主制度能够正常的操作 。

李显龙总理最近访问了榜鹅东,他批评工人党“在国会并没见反对党对新政策有强烈的看法或替代建议。“ 他的这种批评其实是对工人党的肯定。他没有攻击工人党在国会里浪费纳税人的钱,拖延国会的辩论,为反对而反对,使国会不能有效运作,他也没说工人党把庄严的国会变成斗鸡场。

其实,在过去的一年多里,工人党的议员都参与各种议题的辩论,也提出质询。这些课题包括幼儿、教育、组屋、交通、药物津贴等等。我鼓励大家亲自到国会或是工人党的网站查阅。

工人党有一组由学术人员和专业人士所组成的研究小组,协助议员审查议案,也针对政策提供意见和可能的改善建议。 我认为,我们现阶段的重点应该根据我们所获得的民情和所了解的问题,分析与研究,提出批评与建设性的意见供政府参考以改善政策。只要工人党继续壮大,在国会里拥有更多的议席,就会如李总理所希望看到的,有可能成为替代政府,那就应该有一整套的替代政策。所以榜鹅东的选民千万别辜负总理对工人党的期望,1月26日,把票投给工人党。​
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
it basically means opposition parties are fucked in sg, and that includes wp. if it takes 30 years to get where he and the party is today, it will take a few more decades and his entire old age or possibly his trip to the grave before wp can secure a sizable presence, you can forget majority, in parliament. i have pointed out that party politics in sg is patriarchal, and if low goes, so does the present era and soul of the party. a wp without low will be a very different party altogether. same can be said of pap when old fart farts his last.
 

ray_of_hope

Alfrescian
Loyal
it basically means opposition parties are fucked in sg, and that includes wp. if it takes 30 years to get where he and the party is today, it will take a few more decades and his entire old age or possibly his trip to the grave before wp can secure a sizable presence, you can forget majority, in parliament. i have pointed out that party politics in sg is patriarchal, and if low goes, so does the present era and soul of the party. a wp without low will be a very different party altogether. same can be said of pap when old fart farts his last.

hahaha. Many are saying that if CSJ goes then SDP will prosper.
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Basically, just like section live firing. Stay in your own lane, don't cross fire.

Yes, LTK has made it clear. You fight your battle, we fight ours. It's his prerogative to reject unity. So be it.

I guess any opposition alliance in future will have to be between non-WP opposition parties. 3CF (oppo alliance vs WP vs PAP) will likely become a fixture of the political landscape hence.


Concerning unity, there are two types of opposition party unity. One is the unity within a party, and another is the unity between parties.

Sorry, I don't consider intra-party unity a form of opposition unity. It is a given that any organization, party or company needs unity to remain intact and grow. Every party leader naturally works hard for intra-party unity, has to. Are they all then proponents of 'opposition unity'?

Saying intra-party unity is opposition unity is like saying national unity is the same as family unity, that if you're for a united family, you're for national unity. Plain fallacy.
 

mypools

Alfrescian
Loyal
1 get rid of alex tok
2 get rid of Ang
3 get rid of TJS
.....etc
but not CSJ
will be good for SDP.
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Yes, LTK has made it clear. You fight your battle, we fight ours. It's his prerogative to reject unity. So be it.

I guess any opposition alliance in future will have to be between non-WP opposition parties. 3CF (oppo alliance vs WP vs PAP) will likely become a fixture of the political landscape hence.

Sorry, I don't consider intra-party unity a form of opposition unity. It is a given that any organization, party or company needs unity to remain intact and grow. Every party leader naturally works hard for intra-party unity, has to. Are they all then proponents of 'opposition unity'?

Saying intra-party unity is opposition unity is like saying national unity is the same as family unity, that if you're for a united family, you're for national unity. Plain fallacy.

Actually, I agree with LTK when he said "Firstly, if the opposition parties were able to unite, Singapore today would not have so many political parties."

It is a fact that even without WP, the other opposition parties have not been able to come together. The recent example was the talks between SDP and RP, and SDP and SDA. Both SDA and RP still decided to run when SDP has not given up.

But I agree that LTK might have gone out of point. He may be saying that if intraparty unity was not easy to achieve, much less interopposition unity. But it lacked clarity there.
 

ray_of_hope

Alfrescian
Loyal
He may be saying that if intraparty unity was not easy to achieve, much less interopposition unity. But it lacked clarity there.

RP imploded just before GE 2011 when droves of good people left.
More recently, SDP was in turmoil with internal squabbles in the CEC about contesting PE BE.

What further clarity does one want?

The people asking for unity come from such nutty parties.
 

mypools

Alfrescian
Loyal
low ah low
you have been doing a good job indeed,
but for someone else
not my felloow singaporeans.
many of them are still crying.
 
Last edited:

dredd

Alfrescian
Loyal
why take him so many days to come with this
explanation.

From my observations of this guy, he always does things at the right timing and doesn't rush into things. He is a very shrewd and tactical politician.
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
why take him so many days to come with this
explanation.

One, he has said it before if people bothered to remember.

Two, it is not a key issue. To me housing and transport are the main issues. Opposition unity is opposition's problem, nothing to do with a voter like me.
 

PTADER

Alfrescian
Loyal
"During this by-election, before nomination day, the Worker’s Party was accused of being arrogant and dismissive of other opposition parties who wanted to contest Punggol East, and showed no concern about opposition unity.
.
Tonight, I shall talk to you about the problems regarding opposition unity...."

This is excellent. If the recent thick headed dummies from the SDP and other opposition parties are still too stupid to get the message, then I hope this racist and Chinese chauvinist's message to them is simple enough and crystal clear.

Chauvinist Low and WP Princess Sylvia Megawati Sukarnoputri do not want to have a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g to do with you and your parties. You are their enemies.

Unlike some of the Chinese chauvinists' very own supporters who think you are the much needed "artillery" required to soften the ground to enable the WP to do the "mopping up" operations, Chauvinist Low and WP Princess Sylvia Megawati Sukarnoputri do not think so and will not say thank you to you for doing so or for taking the risks in doing so.

Unlike some of the Chinese chauvinists' very own supporters who recognise that if all the opposition parties had not contested or had played the role of "heavy artillery", thus distracting and forcing the PAP to divide its resources throughout the island, and if the "smelly shitskin" and "lazy m&d" minorities (the preferred disparaging and disrespectful terms for minorities from the WP Chinese chauvinists and WP race bigots) had not given their conditional support, Aljunied would be another Cheng San.

The rising tide that will lift all boats will not happen.

What has happened, is happening and will continue to happen (which must be obvious even to the deaf, dumb and blind) is that WP boat with that 6+2 men aboard will stamp and trod on you. They will be happy to see you capsize and drown. The SDP, NSP, RP and SDA and naive Ang Yong Guans need to wake up to this reality. They cannot continue with their daydream in their make-believe rising-tide-will-lift-all-boats world.

Several years ago, I mocked the WP asking people to imagine if they had two seats in Parliament as that one solitary Hougang seat was enough to see them strutting about and crowing around.

With 6+2 seats, the WP has "officially" emerged from its closet. Expect Low to reveal more of his true colours. He will do more and assert his racism and racial chauvinism more overtly when he thinks the Chinese ground is fully with him and he is untouchable.

Beware! Malays and Indians and Chinese English-eds and other political parties. I (and some of us) know this man. I (and some of us) have already warned you about him.

Do continue to spread the message to our and your Malay and Indian brothers and sisters. The English-eds will do our part. Together, we will send chauvinist Low, his Princess Sylvia Megawati Sukarnoputri and the WP chauvinists and WP racial bigots back into the chauvinist closet where their arrogance and chauvinism belong.
 

commoner

Alfrescian
Loyal
WP was almost bankrupted in 90s due to lawsuit of one of its members. WP ordinary members would not want to pay for libel suits by its members. It would cripple the party completely.

SDP imploded in the 90s too, leaving Chiam and Low in the parliament for decades, also as we see CSJ going bankrupt most of his 20 years, VW apologising twice in a period of 2 years,,,

SDA, come on,,, no way to work with them,,,,,

SPP amd NSP,,,,, everybody wants to be indian chief,,,,, and have someone talking about UFO and aliens?

WP cannot and should waste their resources and afford to pay for lawsuits,
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Concerning unity, there are two types of opposition party unity. One is the unity within a party, and another is the unity between parties. LTK knows that to get a party to pull together is really difficult, and he is correct in not wanting to care about the unity between parties. His speech, if you read between the lines, means that of utmost concern to him is the unity within a party, and as long as he takes care of that, he would have done enough for "opposition unity".

From what I understand, LTK's idea is to build one strong party to take on one strong party. Fighting fire with fire.

The idea is to have one party that can contest all seats vs one party that always contest all seats. In the past it's always 8-10 small fragmented parties with equal strength, carving out turfs, horsetrading etc.

This idea has never been tried. Maybe now's the time to try it.

If people do not like the idea, they will punish WP in the end. Or if WP becomes the only party with PAP and fail, it will collapse.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
There are 12 SMCs and 15 GRCs and therefore 27 opportunities to get into parliament. Chiam See Tong did not get WP's permission to get elected in Potong Pasir. He also did not get permission from WP to get 2 more seats in 1991.

Honestly why the dependency on WP? Why the need to seek their consent and their endorsement,
 

SgParent

Alfrescian
Loyal
I guess any opposition alliance in future will have to be between non-WP opposition parties. 3CF (oppo alliance vs WP vs PAP) will likely become a fixture of the political landscape hence.

Stop dreaming lah. You think SPP will work with SDP, RP with NSP and anyone with SDA?
 
Top