Crumbling of Singapore?

Re: He Planned All These

TracyTan866 said:

shdn't life be more than just making money on the stock mkt? when u dabble in shares, u shd be using what u can afford to lose...dunt allow some losses to affect you...cheer up i m sure you have more gg than just shares

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hahaha....agree...i shall repent.......and hold-up for Singapore (not papee hor) so that Singapore will not crumble.
on the other hand, i may also write a book....kukubird's tips to riches........just bet against kukubird....sure to profit.

Leongsam said:

When I feel sorry for someone, I help them directly. I don't expect governments to get involved. The overheads and red tape required to set up a whole army of administrators, case managers, field workers, fraud prevention officers etc to assess and allocate funding according to need would require an even bigger budget than the one they were allocating to the poor.

I'm not imagining this scenario or making it up. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. The organisation is called winz. http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/

However, despite the huge amount of welfare paid out, this is what you get...

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...hildren-living-in-poverty-20110814-1isoi.html

One in four NZ children living in poverty

If an A team existed that could solve this problem, the issue of poverty would have been solved more than half a century ago.

You're an idealist and that is good. However, remember what I told you to temper that idealism with.

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Thanks Mr Leongsam for your advice (see, I used the spelling u insist) on tempering idealism. But for those of us involved in social and volunter work, it really doesn't what we are branded as, be it idealistic, sentimental, or just plain stupid, we don't really care. We stay focused on our job to make life better for those who are really in bad shape and in need of real help. At times, what we do can only bring marginal relief to these people, but just to see them smile a little more, make us feel it's all worthwhile. We hope to at least do some of the things that the govt ought to do but chose not to do. Actually it is often mistaken that those who highlight the plight of our disadvantaged is asking for a welfare state to be instituted. Nothing can be further from the truth. Many volunteers and social workers are enlightened people who knows the risks in being a welfare state. All they hope from the govt is for it to extend more help than what they are doing now. For example, if the govt would up its subsistence allowance by another $100 to $200, that would go some way in helping this group of people. Would a mere increase of $200 turn S'pore into a welfare state? Does granting a few hundred dollars more to people who really need it and nowhere to turn to automatically lead S'pore down the slope of a welfare state? Yes, it's not good for S'pore to turn into a welfare state on a socialist path. But at the same time, that doesn't preclude the govt for doing more, extend a little more financial assistance. It can't be a case where because I"m afraid that S'pore will become a welfare state and therefore $1 more also I won't give. That's nothing more than a lame and overused ad nasuem excuse.

Re: He Planned All These

kukubird58 said:

hahaha....pse read carefully, since when i blame the 60%??????
(i only blame papee for not closing down SGX)

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Oops, sorry....I got the wrong impression that u were not happy with the 60% who voted for the pap from this comment of yours "we talk so much about inequalities; etc.....but the most contented people who election after election voted for papee were actually the lower income groups staying in the heartland.
they will kpkb in kopitiams and markets but that is the the way of letting off steam.....overall they still prefer or are comfortable with status quo.
you can call them all kind of names (ignorant, ball-less, etc) but isn't that what democracy is all about; the majority wins.......
the challenge is to reach out to these groups or wait till they passed on....." sorrrry!!!!

Re: He Planned All These

kukubird58 said:

hahaha....agree...i shall repent.......and hold-up for Singapore (not papee hor) so that Singapore will not crumble.
on the other hand, i may also write a book....kukubird's tips to riches........just bet against kukubird....sure to profit.

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do u think that pap is leading SG on the wrong road?

freedalas said:

Thanks Mr Leongsam for your advice (see, I used the spelling u insist) on tempering idealism. But for those of us involved in social and volunter work, it really doesn't what we are branded as, be it idealistic, sentimental, or just plain stupid, we don't really care.

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Good point..let's just try our best to make life better for those who fall through the cracks regardless of how others feel and care abt these poor and needy

freedalas said:

Actually it is often mistaken that those who highlight the plight of our disadvantaged is asking for a welfare state to be instituted. Nothing can be further from the truth. Many volunteers and social workers are enlightened people who knows the risks in being a welfare state. All they hope from the govt is for it to extend more help than what they are doing now.

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Absolutely..The distortion of what social workers are asking for is the pap's ploy to distract from its failure to extend a helping hand to poor and needy Singaporeans..No one is asking for a welfare state...most are asking for the govt to extend a helping hand and not neglect the poor

freedalas said:

Many volunteers and social workers are enlightened people who knows the risks in being a welfare state. All they hope from the govt is for it to extend more help than what they are doing now. For example, if the govt would up its subsistence allowance by another $100 to $200, that would go some way in helping this group of people. Would a mere increase of $200 turn S'pore into a welfare state? Does granting a few hundred dollars more to people who really need it and nowhere to turn to automatically lead S'pore down the slope of a welfare state? Yes, it's not good for S'pore to turn into a welfare state on a socialist path. But at the same time, that doesn't preclude the govt for doing more, extend a little more financial assistance. It can't be a case where because I"m afraid that S'pore will become a welfare state and therefore $1 more also I won't give. That's nothing more than a lame and overused ad nasuem excuse.

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The ball is in MCYS's court..Let's see whether CCS makes a difference to the poor as he claimed that he was from the poor.

freedalas said:

Actually it is often mistaken that those who highlight the plight of our disadvantaged is asking for a welfare state to be instituted. Nothing can be further from the truth. Many volunteers and social workers are enlightened people who knows the risks in being a welfare state.

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I wanted to stay off this thread but what you wrote above compelled me once me to say my 2cents worth.No,I am not a history student.Hated history in school.But when PAP overwhelmed us with lies,I dug deep into historical records.All are available in our libraries.

Now,the very existence of a democratic governance itself is welfare-ism.Many forgets this fundamental.Because it's sole purpose is to redistribute the wealth equitably .Every infrastructure ,roads ,schools,hospitals,zoos ,libraries and etc built by the government is for the welfare of the public---not for those who are only able and can afford it or deserve it.That's why the government is endowed with the power to collect taxes which goes to the the welfare of the people.This is what those who argue against welfare state forgets.That the fundamental of a democratically elected government is to craete an equitable welfare state.

Now the catch word is equitable not equal.I suppose this is what those who argue against a welfare state confuse themselves with.An equal state is communism which had failed in the last 70 years.....and therefore,it very well follows that those of us who argue for welfareism are not advocating a state of communism.

Now,coming to the matter of PAP.It started on a socialist platform.It's very name say so.That it's a party of people by the people for the people.But power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely--this is the story of PAP.Why?

Because people like Vivian Balakrishnan has the audacity the overshoot the youth Olympic budget by 3 times over millions but find increasing the handouts to the very needy by a meager $50 more monthly as a welfare state.CPF collected as a forced savings does not belong to the owners anymore but used to gamble and fritter away by billions by PAP crony circle.The list is endless.

Nice-Gook said:

CPF collected as a forced savings does not belong to the owners anymore but used to gamble and fritter away by billions by PAP crony circle.

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give me my option to opt out of CPF Life, let me manage my own money!

Nice-Gook said:

Now,the very existence of a democratic governance itself is welfare-ism.Many forgets this fundamental.Because it's sole purpose is to redistribute the wealth equitably .Every infrastructure ,roads ,schools,hospitals,zoos ,libraries and etc built by the government is for the welfare of the public---not for those who are only able and can afford it or deserve it.That's why the government is endowed with the power to collect taxes which goes to the the welfare of the people.This is what those who argue against welfare state forgets.That the fundamental of a democratically elected government is to craete an equitable welfare state.



Now the catch word is equitable not equal.I suppose this is what those who argue against a welfare state confuse themselves with.An equal state is communism which had failed in the last 70 years.....and therefore,it very well follows that those of us who argue for welfareism are not advocating a state of communism.

Now,coming to the matter of PAP.It started on a socialist platform.It's very name say so.That it's a party of people by the people for the people.But power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely--this is the story of PAP.Why?

Because people like Vivian Balakrishnan has the audacity the overshoot the youth Olympic budget by 3 times over millions but find increasing the handouts to the very needy by a meager $50 more monthly as a welfare state.CPF collected as a forced savings does not belong to the owners anymore but used to gamble and fritter away by billions by PAP crony circle.The list is endless.

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Well said...I agree that a govt is not just to make money to prepare the country for a rainy day. A main role of the govt is to make life better for the present generation

Nice-Gook said:

Now,coming to the matter of PAP.It started on a socialist platform.It's very name say so.That it's a party of people by the people for the people.But power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely--this is the story of PAP.Why?

Because people like Vivian Balakrishnan has the audacity the overshoot the youth Olympic budget by 3 times over millions but find increasing the handouts to the very needy by a meager $50 more monthly as a welfare state.CPF collected as a forced savings does not belong to the owners anymore but used to gamble and fritter away by billions by PAP crony circle.The list is endless.

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great post!!! Thanks

zhihau said:

give me my option to opt out of CPF Life, let me manage my own money!

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yes..wise decision...can the govt decide to "confiscate" your hard earned money and refuse to return them to you?

Nice-Gook said:

Now,the very existence of a democratic governance itself is welfare-ism.Many forgets this fundamental.Because it's sole purpose is to redistribute the wealth equitably .Every infrastructure ,roads ,schools,hospitals,zoos ,libraries and etc built by the government is for the welfare of the public---not for those who are only able and can afford it or deserve it.That's why the government is endowed with the power to collect taxes which goes to the the welfare of the people.This is what those who argue against welfare state forgets.That the fundamental of a democratically elected government is to craete an equitable welfare state.

Now the catch word is equitable not equal.I suppose this is what those who argue against a welfare state confuse themselves

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I agree with you totally regarding the distribution of wealth to achieve an equitable state. But I wish to point out one area where there should be equality and that in the non-quantitative distribution of human rights. Certain non-quantitative rights of a citizen should be given out equally regardless of wealth and social standing.T

zhihau said:

give me my option to opt out of CPF Life, let me manage my own money!

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If the PAP tought you were capable enough to do so, they would happily agree. Sadly the track record shows a sorry state of affairs when citizens try emulate Ho Ching. You seem to forget that she's part of an exceptional family. You, on the other hand, are just a commoner.

TracyTan866 said:

can the govt decide to "confiscate" your hard earned money and refuse to return them to you?

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they can do what they want, i can vote who i want :p:p:p

Fook Seng said:

I agree with you totally regarding the distribution of wealth to achieve an equitable state. But I wish to point out one area where there should be equality and that in the non-quantitative distribution of human rights. Certain non-quantitative rights of a citizen should be given out equally regardless of wealth and social standing.T

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Well said!!!

Leongsam said:

You, on the other hand, are just a commoner.

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i'm not a commoner, i'm a nobody

zhihau said:

they can do what they want, i can vote who i want :p:p:p

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that's very nice of you..u r too kind to the pap!! As for me, I can vote who I want..but they have to work within the constitution.

But I think I know what u mean

Leongsam said:

If the PAP tought you were capable enough to do so, they would happily agree. Sadly the track record shows a sorry state of affairs when citizens try emulate Ho Ching. You seem to forget that she's part of an exceptional family. You, on the other hand, are just a commoner.

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I mentioned elsewhere about PAP's interference when not called upon. CPF Life is one very good example. Also when they have every reason to as with HC, they did not.

zhihau said:

i'm not a commoner, i'm a nobody

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It's simply a polite way of saying the same thing.