Crumbling of Singapore?

freedalas said:

.

The trust of people in the PAP is surely being eroded. The standing of the PAP in people's eyes is truly shaky now. The PAP leaders are now being made fun off all the time and each time one of the MIWs speak, it only reinforces people's views that they are all clowns. While these may not be enough to kick the PAP out in 2016, the power of the PAP is very definitely losing grip. So it may not be in 2016, but quite certainly will be in 2021. The only sad thing is that if it is 2021, the Old Fart will now see that day. But still, if he lives till 2016, he will definitely see support of the PAP falling to a mere 50 odd percent. That may well kill him if he's still lucid by then.

Click to expand...

Indeed many pap MPs and Ministers have been exposed as nothing extraordinary but come across often as stupid and silly.

1. Grace Fu's silly comment abt sacrificing to be an MP.
2. Lim Wee Kiak's idiotic comment abt Minister's lost of respect shd he earn $500k
3. Hri Kumar's idiotic comment
4. V Nair's silly comment
5. KBW's silly comment abt health cost
6. Vivian Bala's silly and childish taunting of WP in Parliament
etc

TracyTan866 said:

i am not surprised by your misreading of current SG situations as you form your opinions from what you read online. if the pap leaders rely on what they
read and from their grassroot's feedback, then the Alternative Parties will capture many seats in the next GE

Click to expand...

Leongsam is nothing more than the typical PAP blind supporter who is delusional. Despite all the negative impact on the ruling party that arose out of their flawed policies made worse by opening of their stupid mouths, people like Leongsam refuse to see the quick erosion of trust and support in the PAP whose integrity is almost zero now. Worse still, Leongsam tries to argue the case for the government by cut and paste articles and statistics he could reach his hands on or by perpetuating the lies the PAP especially the Old Fart had used over 50 years.

But woe to Leongsam, we now have in addition to you, Sister Tracy, a forumer named Asterik who cleverly decimates all of Leongsam's nonsense word by word, point by point and blow by blow. If you have the time, read how Leongsam is clutching at straws and gasping for air as he tries to wriggle his way out after Asterix so convincingly dump all he said into the rubbish bin where it belongs. Leongsam is just another jester in the PAP camp filled with clowns.

TracyTan866 said:

i am not surprised by your misreading of current SG situations as you form your opinions from what you read online. if the pap leaders rely on what they
read and from their grassroot's feedback, then the Alternative Parties will capture many seats in the next GE

Click to expand...

Where I get my information from is not the issue.

At the fare hike protest, only 300 turned up. This is either a fact or a fallacy. Whether I got this figure on line or I was there and did my own headcount does not alter the fact that the turnout was pathetic.

If the figure was not 300, then what was it? 400? 500? 600?

If the fare increase has really caused outrage, then I would expect at least 5000 and I see no reason why it should not be 50,000 if Singaporeans really feel strongly about what the PTC has recommended.

In Auckland, more than a thousand people protested against the issue of using animals for testing drug safety. If you consider the fact that Auckland has a population of only 1.3 million and the issue doesn't even affect humans directly, you'll realise why I am so disillusioned over the 300 head turnout for something which affects the majority of Singaporeans on a daily basis. I can only conclude that Singaporeans are obviously indifferent over the fare increases.

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/thousands-turn-protest-against-animal-testing-5522551

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/hundreds-march-in-wellington-against-animal-testing-video-5522804

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/pro...esting-take-auckland-s-queen-st-video-5522806

I can vouch for the figure because I was there.

freedalas said:

Leongsam is nothing more than the typical PAP blind supporter who is delusional. Despite all the negative impact on the ruling party that arose out of their flawed policies made worse by opening of their stupid mouths, people like Leongsam refuse to see the quick erosion of trust and support in the PAP whose integrity is almost zero now. Worse still, Leongsam tries to argue the case for the government by cut and paste articles and statistics he could reach his hands on or by perpetuating the lies the PAP especially the Old Fart had used over 50 years.

But woe to Leongsam, we now have in addition to you, Sister Tracy, a forumer named Asterik who cleverly decimates all of Leongsam's nonsense word by word, point by point and blow by blow. If you have the time, read how Leongsam is clutching at straws and gasping for air as he tries to wriggle his way out after Asterix so convincingly dump all he said into the rubbish bin where it belongs. Leongsam is just another jester in the PAP camp filled with clowns.

Click to expand...

Agree. He lacks substance

Leongsam said:

Where I get my information from is not the issue.

At the fare hike protest, only 300 turned up. This is either a fact or a fallacy. Whether I got this figure on line or I was there and did my own headcount does not alter the fact that the turnout was pathetic.

If the figure was not 300, then what was it? 400? 500? 600?

If the fare increase has really caused outrage, then I would expect at least 5000 and I see no reason why it should not be 50,000 if Singaporeans really feel strongly about what the PTC has recommended.

In Auckland, more than a thousand people protested against the issue of using animals for testing drug safety. If you consider the fact that Auckland has a population of only 1.3 million and the issue doesn't even affect humans directly, you'll realise why I am so disillusioned over the 300 head turnout for something which affects the majority of Singaporeans on a daily basis. I can only conclude that Singaporeans are obviously indifferent over the fare increases.

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/thousands-turn-protest-against-animal-testing-5522551

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/hundreds-march-in-wellington-against-animal-testing-video-5522804

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/pro...esting-take-auckland-s-queen-st-video-5522806

I can vouch for the figure because I was there.

Click to expand...

Again you misfired.

Did I question your figure of 300? To me, whether it is 300 or 500, that figure is irrelevant.

What I said was "i am not surprised by your misreading of current SG situations"

Think deeper abt what I said!! Dont misread! Dont misinterpret

freedalas said:

Leongsam is nothing more than the typical PAP blind supporter who is delusional. Despite all the negative impact on the ruling party that arose out of their flawed policies made worse by opening of their stupid mouths, people like Leongsam refuse to see the quick erosion of trust and support in the PAP whose integrity is almost zero now. Worse still, Leongsam tries to argue the case for the government by cut and paste articles and statistics he could reach his hands on or by perpetuating the lies the PAP especially the Old Fart had used over 50 years.

But woe to Leongsam, we now have in addition to you, Sister Tracy, a forumer named Asterik who cleverly decimates all of Leongsam's nonsense word by word, point by point and blow by blow. If you have the time, read how Leongsam is clutching at straws and gasping for air as he tries to wriggle his way out after Asterix so convincingly dump all he said into the rubbish bin where it belongs. Leongsam is just another jester in the PAP camp filled with clowns.

Click to expand...

As usual, a lot of hot air but no substance.

I base my judgement of the honorable PAP on facts not emotion or rhetoric. Singapore has one of the highest standards of living in the world and this did not happen by accident. It happened because of the good work done by the PAP.

There are many members here who have countered by points with long and irrelevant discourse but they conveniently ignore the hard facts and rely on subjective assessments of what is going on.

60.1% supported the PAP in the last election. That is an overwhelming majority. In NZ, the ruling National party has to form a coalition with other minor parties in order to govern. It actually has less than 50% support from the people.

You can say what you like about the PAP but more than half of Singapore does not agree with you but they do agree with me.

It is very obvious for the apathetic behaviour of Singaporeans.

We are a very KS, kiasu, kiasi nation. No one wants to risk their rice bowl, their livelihood, their reputation for a cause.

So 300 is a good number. Ha ha ....

TracyTan866 said:

Again you misfired.

Did I question your figure of 300? To me, whether it is 300 or 500, that figure is irrelevant.

What I said was "i am not surprised by your misreading of current SG situations"

Think deeper abt what I said!! Dont misread! Dont misinterpret

Click to expand...

"Misreading" is your opinion not a fact. I'm looking for evidence from you that I am misreading and you have not provided any.

I am reading the current situation based upon the turnout 300 people at a protest of a supposedly major issue. It is pretty obvious that most Singaporeans are very happy with the fare structure.

Leongsam said:

As usual, a lot of hot air but no substance.

I base my judgement of the honorable PAP on facts not emotion or rhetoric. Singapore has one of the highest standards of living in the world and this did not happen by accident. It happened because of the good work done by the PAP.

There are many members here who have countered by points with long and irrelevant discourse but they conveniently ignore the hard facts and rely on subjective assessments of what is going on.

60.1% supported the PAP in the last election. That is an overwhelming majority. In NZ, the ruling National party has to form a coalition with other minor parties in order to govern. It actually has less than 50% support from the people.

You can say what you like about the PAP but more than half of Singapore does not agree with you but they do agree with me.

Click to expand...

Freedalas has substance. You have hot air

Leongsam said:

"Misreading" is your opinion not a fact. I'm looking for evidence from you that I am misreading and you have not provided any.

I am reading the current situation based upon the turnout 300 people at a protest of a supposedly major issue. It is pretty obvious that most Singaporeans are very happy with the fare structure.

Click to expand...

my "opinion" is based objectively on the fact that your interpretation of what's happening in SG is wrong. you cant interprete correctly a country's situation based on a single event and on a single datum.

so just admit that you are misreading and misinterpreting badly

Leongsam said:

"Misreading" is your opinion not a fact. I'm looking for evidence from you that I am misreading and you have not provided any.

I am reading the current situation based upon the turnout 300 people at a protest of a supposedly major issue. It is pretty obvious that most Singaporeans are very happy with the fare structure.

Click to expand...

a fare hike of a few cents per trip is a major issue to you? boy, you sure are petty.

Singaporeans have more important issues to settle with the pap than to worry abt a few cents. but we are thankful to Gilbert Goh who plans a protest once every few months. May he stage another protest in May 2014.

TracyTan866 said:

a fare hike of a few cents per trip is a major issue to you? boy, you sure are petty.

Singaporeans have more important issues to settle with the pap than to worry abt a few cents. but we are thankful to Gilbert Goh who plans a protest once every few months. May he stage another protest in May 2014.

Click to expand...

Nice to see you back in the forum, Tracy. Whenever you come back after a long hiatus, my heart skips a few beats :-)

The Gilbert Goh protest against the fare hike was not very well attended but the message was clear from those who did attend. One poster stands out, and it read: "Why should we pay more for poor service?"

I think Hong Lim and Facebook have allowed people to air an unprecedented level of frustration at the fare hikes, which by itself may not have aroused so much emotion if it didn't come in the wake of an equally unprecedented level of service disruption, some of which actually put commuters lives in serious jeopardy.

If they go ahead with the fare hike with that poster "Why should we pay more for poor service?" screaming in their face, it can only mean at this junction, the PAP is even prepared to lose votes and seats in order to make their Temasek-linked companies make more money. From the standpoint of a political observer, that is quite perplexing actually. The logical thing is to hold on to power and then use that power to gain an economic advantage - not to sacrifice power to cling on to an economic advantage.

TracyTan866 said:

my "opinion" is based objectively on the fact that your interpretation of what's happening in SG is wrong. you cant interprete correctly a country's situation based on a single event and on a single datum.

so just admit that you are misreading and misinterpreting badly

Click to expand...

I read the situation perfectly. Those who are capable and hardworking fully support the PAP. Those who are lazy and want handouts are against the PAP.

Thankfully there are more hardworking Singaporeans than there are lazy ones so the future is bright.

Thick Face Black Heart said:

If they go ahead with the fare hike with that poster "Why should we pay more for poor service?" screaming in their face,

Click to expand...

"Poor service" is relative. Until you have had to put up with the MRT systems in other countries, you will not realise what a fantastic system the SMRT is despite the recent hiccups.

No infrastructure system has zero downtime. Parts wear and things break. It is how the organisation responds to setbacks that is important and the PAP has always reacted in a responsible manner to any issue.

Singaporeans should rally behind their leaders in order to take Singapore to new heights. Constant criticism does nothing for the country or its residents.

Sudirman said:

It is very obvious for the apathetic behaviour of Singaporeans.

We are a very KS, kiasu, kiasi nation. No one wants to risk their rice bowl, their livelihood, their reputation for a cause.

So 300 is a good number. Ha ha ....

Click to expand...

Contrary to what you experienced, I see many courageous and motivated singaporeans. I guess it depends on whom you mix with

Thick Face Black Heart said:

Nice to see you back in the forum, Tracy. Whenever you come back after a long hiatus, my heart skips a few beats :-)

The Gilbert Goh protest against the fare hike was not very well attended but the message was clear from those who did attend. One poster stands out, and it read: "Why should we pay more for poor service?"

I think Hong Lim and Facebook have allowed people to air an unprecedented level of frustration at the fare hikes, which by itself may not have aroused so much emotion if it didn't come in the wake of an equally unprecedented level of service disruption, some of which actually put commuters lives in serious jeopardy.

If they go ahead with the fare hike with that poster "Why should we pay more for poor service?" screaming in their face, it can only mean at this junction, the PAP is even prepared to lose votes and seats in order to make their Temasek-linked companies make more money. From the standpoint of a political observer, that is quite perplexing actually. The logical thing is to hold on to power and then use that power to gain an economic advantage - not to sacrifice power to cling on to an economic advantage.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your kind words. I applaud Gilbert for his belief and for what he has done. What he has done these past two years are good and right. We should continue to encourage him. Sceptics may mock him for organising these protests but they may turn out to be the first sparks that will be fanned into a big fire. Many things great start with small steps and I hope that Gilbert will later be known as the father of SG Protests.

I hope that he can organise a May Day Protest on3 May to protest against PAP's abuse of Singaporean workers by castrating true trade unions and the import of cheap foreign labour to depress low waged Singaporean workers in a high cost SG environment.

Best if many Singaporeans attend his protest rally. But it is enough if his cause is justified

Thick Face Black Heart said:

Nice to see you back in the forum, Tracy. Whenever you come back after a long hiatus, my heart skips a few beats :-)

The Gilbert Goh protest against the fare hike was not very well attended but the message was clear from those who did attend. One poster stands out, and it read: "Why should we pay more for poor service?"

I think Hong Lim and Facebook have allowed people to air an unprecedented level of frustration at the fare hikes, which by itself may not have aroused so much emotion if it didn't come in the wake of an equally unprecedented level of service disruption, some of which actually put commuters lives in serious jeopardy.

If they go ahead with the fare hike with that poster "Why should we pay more for poor service?" screaming in their face, it can only mean at this junction, the PAP is even prepared to lose votes and seats in order to make their Temasek-linked companies make more money. From the standpoint of a political observer, that is quite perplexing actually. The logical thing is to hold on to power and then use that power to gain an economic advantage - not to sacrifice power to cling on to an economic advantage.

Click to expand...

the fare hike is unjustified since the service is bad, breakdowns are frequent, SMRT and SBS are making good profits and the pap has subsidised $1.1B.

PAP's concept of using tax payers money to fund commercial companies cannot be justified, is untenable and is tantamount to an abuse

Leongsam said:

I read the situation perfectly. Those who are capable and hardworking fully support the PAP. Those who are lazy and want handouts are against the PAP.

Thankfully there are more hardworking Singaporeans than there are lazy ones so the future is bright.

Click to expand...

Normally I always leave a way out for a cornered dog to escape graciously and let the matter rest. And I do extend such a courtesy to you. Refer to your post #2278 and my rebuttal #2279.

But since you insist on making rhetoric, ungracious and unsubstantiated statements to demean and abuse poor, hardworking Singaporeans who are trapped by circumstances often not due their own doing, I feel compelled to rebut your above with the following facts and figures:

1. Joo Chiat is an almost 100% private housing Constituency. JC residents are mostly upper middle class, hard working, motivated and successful. In GE 2006, PAP won 65%. In GE 2011, PAP scrapped through with 51%. Did it show hardworking, rich, successful Singaporeans voted for PAP? If LHL dares to leave JC as it is, I am confident JC will fall to the WP in the next GE

2. At GE 2011, >90 % of a landed housing precinct along Changi Road voted against the PAP, causing the PAP MPs to wonder aloud what happened. The residents of this landed housing estate are rich, successful, hardworking. Did they voted for the pap as suggested by you

3. Contrary to what you said, the pap knows that the main pap supporters are the poor from a certain minority group. But change is in the air from this group and how they vote at the next GE will affect the PAP much

Thick Face Black Heart said:

Nice to see you back in the forum, Tracy. Whenever you come back after a long hiatus, my heart skips a few beats :-)

The Gilbert Goh protest against the fare hike was not very well attended but the message was clear from those who did attend. One poster stands out, and it read: "Why should we pay more for poor service?"

Click to expand...

What do you read of LSS's statement that he will anchor East Coast GRC.

I see the following desperation in the PAP camp.

1. PAP has problem attracting candidates and has to recycle obsolete and tired MPs like LSS who had indicated in 2011 that he wanted out
2. LHL didnt dare to send in another "George Yeo" type, fearing that he will lose another Minister at east Coast
3. Any minister sent into East Coast GRC at the next GE will be demoralised and seen as an expendable Minister to be sacrificed.
4. Best option is to dangle a $15m pay carrot to motivate LSS with potential for him to be President or Chairman Temasek if he retains East Coast at the next GE. LSS is now a highly motivated and rejuvenated candidate and will die to win East Coast because of the carrot.
5. LHL expects to lose East Coast GRC at the next GE

Leongsam said:

I read the situation perfectly. Those who are capable and hardworking fully support the PAP. Those who are lazy and want handouts are against the PAP.

Thankfully there are more hardworking Singaporeans than there are lazy ones so the future is bright.

Click to expand...

You are very boastful, thinking that you know Singapore and Singaporeans well. Even the pap acknowledged that they dont understanding the anger of Singaporeans.

1. Even George didnt understand and asked "Why this angst against the PAP?"
2. Josephine Teo asked, "Why this anger against PAP?"

They dont know and you claim you know? What foolishness