Serious can anti missile kaputt M1 mbt w passive n reactive armours?

Papsmearer said:

All this talk about anti tank guided missiles and active protection systems is meaningless unless tied into the discussion of our Leo 2SG.

The SAF Leo 2s were purchased from the German Army used as alleged replacement for the AMX-13. The model bought was an older model, the A4. The SAF upgraded it to the Leo Evolution package using IBD Diesenroth. Upgrades include additional belly armour, roof and rear armour, using IBD’s AMAPs appliqué modular armour. If the SAF had waited a couple of year more, they could have gotten the Rheinmetall Revolution upgrade, which is superior to the IBD Evolution upgrade by a factor of 2 or 3. But, ST has to give business to IBD, so you go with the company that gives you kickbacks.

The Evolution upgrade package does not include ERA (explosive reactive armour….the bricks that you see on tanks) nor Active Protection System. Will they need it? Almost certainly, and I am thinking the APS is already in the works and will be installed soon. Before everyone goes google eyes over the APS, some points to consider.

APS by its very nature is inherently dangerous to any nearby friendly infantry. The system uses a guided warhead to proximity detonate an incoming RPG round. Should the APS be successful, explosive fragments from the APS round as well as from an exploding RPG warhead will shower the surrounding area and hit any soldiers deployed around the tank. Therefore, if you are doing tank infantry cooperation and someone fires an RPG at the tank nearest you, you could be showered with shrapnel. In the context of Singapore’s area of operation where FIBUA is expected, a tank hit in the streets could have collateral damage to the escorting infantry. It will be as though someone tossed a grenade near the infantry. Something the SAF will not tell the soldiers if they ever deploy it.

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The engrd dept in STK promoted every executive one rank up at rollout of the first Bionix. My understanding was that the entire project spread to MBT as well on Bionix platform.MBT was never developed and the cheaters got away with the promotions and pay increases cum bonuses scotsfree.......Sound familiar in rotten cunt4ry Leepublic of
Zikapore..........
So to cover their arses, buy already junked Leo frim Bundeswehr to be refurbished by wheeler and dealer Federick Ulf Deisenroth aided by Dr Richard Kwok..
There is no accountability and no sense of responsibity.
Bionix was also supposed to sell by the thousands Desp to USA as std issue - what happened after spending mega bucks on marketting Blitz? They found a sad home DownUnder killing own tankee...........LOL

Leckmichamarsch said:

tip the rounds w your dickhead......unstop



I dun noe abt chobham armour but can guess its makeup. It has first layer of very dense material to reduce the destuctive KE. So it will depleted uranium. Next a layer to distort the standoff distance of shaped charge to render it much less effective. Last but not least the ceramic tile to fragment the projectile remians. The best material would be diamond w Moh hardness 10 but it is far too expensive. Boron carbide w MOH of 9.7 is next best but still too expensive and not easy to make. The happy compromise wud be SiC which very affordable.............all the layers are held together w super high tensile strength adhesive...normally propriety secret.

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Chobham armour formula is secret and the early versions is very different from current versions, I understand that Kevlar is one of the materials in the sandwich now. As well as depleted uranium and advance ceramic. I think the formula is successful as T-72 125mm APFSDS rounds cannot penetrate M1A1/A2 armour frontally or even on the flank, and definitely not the M1 SEP. However the Leo 2 that we have is of unknown quality, not having been used in a tank vs tank engagement. Upgraded Leo 2 can withstand landmines and roadside IED. And even flank and rears shots from older generation RPGs. But what u are describing is 2 different defences, One against chemical energy weapons and the other with kinetic energy weapon system. this is the beauty of Chobham, It can effectively defeat both. Unlike the ERA equipped T-72 and its derivatives, which are effective against Chemical energy weapons due to the ERA, a sabot round would penetrate thru all the ERA and organic armour to the interior of the tank. When the americans put a belt of depleted uranium on their M1 SEP. that was a winning formula.

pakchewcheng said:

And for some reasons which are very reasonable to the designers of composite armour, air spaces are essential component part of the armour.
My knowledge restricted to Ctrl C-V.
I dare not ask them more details , as they may have to take me out after they tell me.

So why not you ask them instead.

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u are talking about spaced armour. Its design to allow the molten jet stream from a chemical weapon warhead to dissipate and spread out within the space.

Leckmichamarsch said:

The engrd dept in STK promoted every executive one rank up at rollout of the first Bionix. My understanding was that the entire project spread to MBT as well on Bionix platform.MBT was never developed and the cheaters got away with the promotions and pay increases cum bonuses scotsfree.......Sound familiar in rotten cunt4ry Leepublic of
Zikapore..........
So to cover their arses, buy already junked Leo frim Bundeswehr to be refurbished by wheeler and dealer Federick Ulf Deisenroth aided by Dr Richard Kwok..
There is no accountability and no sense of responsibity.
Bionix was also supposed to sell by the thousands Desp to USA as std issue - what happened after spending mega bucks on marketting Blitz? They found a sad home DownUnder killing own tankee...........LOL

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they were never going to sell thousands of them. They had so many US components in it, like the diesel engine, transmission, Bushmaster, etc. they need the US permission to make an overseas sale and that would not happen, Its better for them to barter it to the US allies for something. eg. 20 Bionix to the Phillippines for a planeload of whores. The US will surely not deny this armour vehicle to their ally, the Phillippines. They can use it against insurgents, and give us a battlefield evaluation..

Papsmearer said:

u are talking about spaced armour. Its design to allow the molten jet stream from a chemical weapon warhead to dissipate and spread out within the space.

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Seems to be integral part of Chobham type armour design.
Maybe no armour is good armour

Papsmearer said:

they were never going to sell thousands of them. They had so many US components in it, like the diesel engine, transmission, Bushmaster, etc. they need the US permission to make an overseas sale and that would not happen, Its better for them to barter it to the US allies for something. eg. 20 Bionix to the Phillippines for a planeload of whores. The US will surely not deny this armour vehicle to their ally, the Phillippines. They can use it against insurgents, and give us a battlefield evaluation..

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Enough Pinoys in Sinkapore to fuck and tiew without another planeload of their whores.
I seen enough Pinoys to decide Ma Palm and her five daughters much preferable.

Papsmearer said:

u are talking about spaced armour. Its design to allow the molten jet stream from a chemical weapon warhead to dissipate and spread out within the space.

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I take it that you seen the volume of the molten jet stream from that incoming rocket.



I take it the space in armour can take all that in and even to spread out

zhihau said:

What do you use to hold your acid-filled ammunition? Glass? Would the container shatter when launched? Would be interesting to see a prototype working.

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what do i know..............i'm no engineering genius...............heck, i've never been in the army............

OrLanChowHorFun said:

i'm no engineering genius...

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In the not too distant past, chao eh ginna use lightbulbs filled with acid when they pia zhui, pia acid zhui

That's why I thought your idea may actually work.

pakchewcheng said:

I take it that you seen the volume of the molten jet stream from that incoming rocket.

I take it the space in armour can take all that in and even to spread out

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And with that, would you rather have that incoming rocket taken out by the APS to start its nonsense way way outside your tank or do you want it impacting on the ERA and Chobham armour with spaces inside to dissipate the molten jets and gases? Even if they got depleted uranium belt on the Chobham?
That was why I said earlier using ERA is like using phone with handline and dial that go round and round

And sinkapore tanks dont even have ERA

Papsmearer said:

Chobham armour formula is secret and the early versions is very different from current versions, I understand that Kevlar is one of the materials in the sandwich now. As well as depleted uranium and advance ceramic. I think the formula is successful as T-72 125mm APFSDS rounds cannot penetrate M1A1/A2 armour frontally or even on the flank, and definitely not the M1 SEP. However the Leo 2 that we have is of unknown quality, not having been used in a tank vs tank engagement. Upgraded Leo 2 can withstand landmines and roadside IED. And even flank and rears shots from older generation RPGs. But what u are describing is 2 different defences, One against chemical energy weapons and the other with kinetic energy weapon system. this is the beauty of Chobham, It can effectively defeat both. Unlike the ERA equipped T-72 and its derivatives, which are effective against Chemical energy weapons due to the ERA, a sabot round would penetrate thru all the ERA and organic armour to the interior of the tank. When the americans put a belt of depleted uranium on their M1 SEP. that was a winning formula.

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I think depleted uranium and kevlar or aramide play the same role ie to slow down the projjectile velocity hence its KE........makinmg projectile less distructive as it penetrates deeper - not mush sperm left to impregnate..

Papsmearer said:

they were never going to sell thousands of them. They had so many US components in it, like the diesel engine, transmission, Bushmaster, etc. they need the US permission to make an overseas sale and that would not happen, Its better for them to barter it to the US allies for something. eg. 20 Bionix to the Phillippines for a planeload of whores. The US will surely not deny this armour vehicle to their ally, the Phillippines. They can use it against insurgents, and give us a battlefield evaluation..

Click to expand...

great thot...move aside P Choy...

pakchewcheng said:

I take it that you seen the volume of the molten jet stream from that incoming rocket.

I take it the space in armour can take all that in and even to spread out

Click to expand...

you need blackhole........the astro kind

Papsmearer said:

All this talk about anti tank guided missiles and active protection systems is meaningless unless tied into the discussion of our Leo 2SG.

The SAF Leo 2s were purchased from the German Army used as alleged replacement for the AMX-13. The model bought was an older model, the A4. The SAF upgraded it to the Leo Evolution package using IBD Diesenroth. Upgrades include additional belly armour, roof and rear armour, using IBD’s AMAPs appliqué modular armour. If the SAF had waited a couple of year more, they could have gotten the Rheinmetall Revolution upgrade, which is superior to the IBD Evolution upgrade by a factor of 2 or 3. But, ST has to give business to IBD, so you go with the company that gives you kickbacks.

The Evolution upgrade package does not include ERA (explosive reactive armour….the bricks that you see on tanks) nor Active Protection System. Will they need it? Almost certainly, and I am thinking the APS is already in the works and will be installed soon. Before everyone goes google eyes over the APS, some points to consider.

APS by its very nature is inherently dangerous to any nearby friendly infantry. The system uses a guided warhead to proximity detonate an incoming RPG round. Should the APS be successful, explosive fragments from the APS round as well as from an exploding RPG warhead will shower the surrounding area and hit any soldiers deployed around the tank. Therefore, if you are doing tank infantry cooperation and someone fires an RPG at the tank nearest you, you could be showered with shrapnel. In the context of Singapore’s area of operation where FIBUA is expected, a tank hit in the streets could have collateral damage to the escorting infantry. It will be as though someone tossed a grenade near the infantry. Something the SAF will not tell the soldiers if they ever deploy it.

Click to expand...

Sinkie military doctrine is to outpace Jiuhu and Indon combined. Period.

It is not meant to get into an arms race with bigger powers like USA, Chinkland, Russia. So to compare our military against chinkland and have a good laugh, is simply not being a fair comparison in the first place.
The SAF was never meant to militarily challenge chinkland or russia.

SAF doctrine would have to change and react quickly, given that in recent years, the chinks are aggressively developing a credible blue-water navy. It would only be a matter of time before they start to claim pedra branca as part of their "historical" maritime waters.

If the m&ds and indons upgrade their armour to include the latest ERA and APS, you can be sure we will do it before they do.

JohnTan said:

If the m&ds and indons upgrade their armour to include the latest ERA and APS, you can be sure we will do it before they do.

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ROTFFLMFAO!

Our soldiers are cannon fodder to the generals.
Good only for finding scapegoats and laughing to the banks.
Good for blaming entire departments and jagars for trains turning into submarines.
Good only for sinking NOL and whatever the fuck they are in to be on top of.

JohnTan said:

Sinkie military doctrine is to outpace Jiuhu and Indon combined. Period.

.

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That is not the sinkie military doctrine. no one knows what it was. It was never told to me, and I have asked it of higher ranked officers then myself. It used to be the poison shrimp doctrine in the 70s and 80s. And we bought equipment consistent with this policy. But today, I don't know what it is. Do you? Its no point to outpace your 2 neighbours when one of them is a down syndrome and the other is retarded. There is no one to compete with. If the malaysians want to do something, they will just close the border and the water. We will be in deep shit. Without firing a shot against us, we will be up against the wall. As for the Indons, they couldn't put together s 10 ship task force much less sail all the way to Singapore and land on our shores and invade us.

Papsmearer said:

That is not the sinkie military doctrine. no one knows what it was. It was never told to me, and I have asked it of higher ranked officers then myself. It used to be the poison shrimp doctrine in the 70s and 80s. And we bought equipment consistent with this policy. But today, I don't know what it is. Do you? Its no point to outpace your 2 neighbours when one of them is a down syndrome and the other is retarded. There is no one to compete with. Its the malaysians want to do something, they will just close the border and the water. We will be in deep shit. Without firing a shot against us, we will be up against the wall. As for the Indons, they couldn't put together s 10 ship task force much less sail all the way to Singapore and land on our shores and invade us.

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We seen how good those generals are even without a fucking war and missles and bullets and bombs heading their way.

We seen them in NOL, SIA, SMRT and stat boards and GIC companies.

All their gungho talk is hotair and more as smoke screen and wayang wayang to hide behind while laughing on way to their banks.

PTUI!

pakchewcheng said:

We seen how good those generals are even without a fucking war and missles and bullets and bombs heading their way.

We seen them in NOL, SIA, SMRT and stat boards and GIC companies.

All their gungho talk is hotair and more as smoke screen and wayang wayang to hide behind while laughing on way to their banks.

PTUI!

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Every example I have seen of SAF genitals in action has been a dismal failure. In the SAF, they are hidden from the public view and given many internal accolades, back patting and buttering up. Within the SAF, they are told they are good and fantastic, as long as they are loyal to the PAP and are members of the PAP and pay a nice percentage of their salary to the party dues. Once they are posted to the GLCs and the public has seen them in the cool light of day, they are exposed for all the warts and weaknesses that they have.

Every single SAF Genital u mentioned above and especially the ones in NOL, SMRT, etc are shockingly deficient. They demonstrate an inability to adjust and be creative and innovative, They show an unwillingness to look at the business model and see what is wrong with it. They have no clue and do no consult with long term staff or even with outside consultants to identify the weaknesses in their business and then take action accordingly. How hard is it for Desmond Quek to hire really professional transport consultants from HKG and UK to identify areas of improvement in the SMRT? A professional consultant would have showed him the big drop in funds allocated to maintenance in the prior years, and the likely results of that (which we are seeing today). If Fat Ng had hired a shipping consultant, perhaps, he could have turned NOL around, after all the French did it in only one year. They must have seen the solution.

Cabinet Minister like Kee Chue, Ng, eg. are all cut from the same cloth. what does that say about their ability to run the country given their inability to run even a mid size company. Also, the question begets how will these Genitals fare in a real shooting war? My confidence is not high on their ability to strategize and defeat an enemy, In fact, I see them likely to be outwitted and out generaled in the field, which would mean, big defeat for us.

Papsmearer said:

That is not the sinkie military doctrine. no one knows what it was. It was never told to me, and I have asked it of higher ranked officers then myself. It used to be the poison shrimp doctrine in the 70s and 80s. And we bought equipment consistent with this policy. But today, I don't know what it is. Do you? Its no point to outpace your 2 neighbours when one of them is a down syndrome and the other is retarded. There is no one to compete with. If the malaysians want to do something, they will just close the border and the water. We will be in deep shit. Without firing a shot against us, we will be up against the wall. As for the Indons, they couldn't put together s 10 ship task force much less sail all the way to Singapore and land on our shores and invade us.

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After the 90s, our military doctrine was be militarily superior to our immediate neighbours, just like an Israel to its closest Arab neighbours.

We have to outpace them both because there is a possibility that jiuhu and indon might tag team to destroy Singapore. Both are muslim majority nations, we are not. And we are chink. Both the malay countries hate chinks.

Our tech also has to be slightly ahead of Thailand, but no need to get into an arms race with them because jiuhu is our buffer.

If jiuhu tries to close the water, we will bring the war to them. We will rain fire and fury down upon JB like none has ever known, and they will rue the day they pissed us off.