This discussion is taken from FarOutNews.com... An excellent discussion site for all things Singaporean. Sammyboy's Website : More than just a pornographic site? From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-17 00:34:00 When I was first introduced to the website, the first impression was that it was a pornographic website, through and through. However, the more I visit the website, I change my opinions about it gradually. Sam Leong's website contains several major components 1) Evaluation of prostitutes' performance at Petain Road, Geylang, Karaoke and the local Health Centers. The evaluation of the performances includes very detailed description on how the prostitute moans, the main process of the whole sordid visit. Their performance is usually graded on a scale of 1-10 under a few categories - BJ, FJ, BBBJ (I still do not know what it means), Looks and Figure. From this section you can see the sexual culture in Singapore. 2) Providing online consultancy/counselling to people who have sexual problems. I remember girls who want to find out how to give great blow jobs always post their enquiries on Sam Leong's discussion forum. And more often than not, experts in the forum will follow up with a video on how to give a blow job to the pitiful girl. More enthusiastic and more than helpful guys often also offer themselves as test subjects for the girl to try out their newly acquired skill on them before trying out on their boyfriend. I have never yet seen a community so closely knitted, that a problem (like not knowing how to give blow jobs) encountered by an unknown lady is met with such enthusiasm from the community. Truly, the community spirit is commendable and tear jerking. 3) Believe it or not, social issues are discussed in Sam Leong's discussion forums. Yes, sex is not the only thing on the minds of the visitors and the participants. Whenever Singapore has a major social event like scholars wanting to break bonds before serving the bond, the Sam Leong's visitors will discuss it quite maturely in their folders. Inside the folders, you can also see the attitude both Singaporean males and females have about sex. 4) Anti Establishment. Yes, in a society where uniformity, conformity and obedience are expected, any anti establishment ideals/intentions will be silently worshipped. In Sam Leong's site, you can see Sam Leong parody Singapore Ball-Carriers Association (SBA), and many other similar things that we hate in Singapore. It is of no wonder, that most Singaporeans know about Sam Leong, and his deeds in his website. I am really not so sure anymore whether Sam Leong's site is a pornographic site anymore, or at least it is not just merely a pornographic site - A pornographic site will not contain digs at our society and the establishment. To decide for yourself, why not visit the site yourself and decide. But a warning though, it is not for the faint hearted - there was once a commemoration thread on Nurses on Sam Leong's folders, and when I clicked on it, half naked nurses splashed across the whole screen. Without futher ado, the main site of Sam Leong is Sam Leong Site And his discussion forum Sam Leong discussion forums Thanks, give your feedback here on Sam Leong! From:KissOrBite Posted on 2000-08-17 02:01:00 Gazy, Yea... I tell ppl that I surf sammy leong site... pity none think that way you do. All immediately reply, "Wah... u r so horny!!!" Need I say more? From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-17 02:11:00 Ask them next time, whether Straits Times is that daring to explore so many issues. From:KissOrBite Posted on 2000-08-17 02:15:00 Ehhh... wat kinda reply am I suppose to expect from them? That they are "straits times" and we are the "lian he wan bao"? From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-17 02:16:00 Recently there was a poll at Sam Leong's website polling on the people willing to give RSM a blowjob should this be a condition of early release from National Service. About one third of the people polled said yes. Sometimes, sam leong is really buay ta han! hahaha From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-17 02:17:00 Regarding this lian he wan bao thing, I heard we were being mentioned there. I just want to know whether Lian He Wan Bao posted my sexy palm on the newspaper or not. From:KissOrBite Posted on 2000-08-17 02:23:00 I long time never read lian he wan bao... too gossipy hahahahaha... From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-17 02:33:00 Opps, Faroutnews.com being mentioned in a gossipy newspaper. From:KissOrBite Posted on 2000-08-17 02:45:00 No... this shows that lian he wan bao is going high-tech... soon to be on-par with straits times with a mix of sammy leong forum From:DaDDy's LiTTLe GiRL Posted on 2000-08-17 10:14:00 kekeke...I paid Sammyboy's site a visit...not as bad as I thought. Pretty interesting I must say myself. kekeke Does this mean I am horny?! *ponders* From:Kaizen Posted on 2000-08-17 17:04:00 RSM would only grant you less guard duties and days off. To get early release, the act should instead be done on the Chief of Defence force. Kaizen From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-17 20:16:00 Daddy's Little Girl, Does that mean you will stop visiting the glorious and illustrious faroutnews.com and visit the pornographic sammyboy's site instead? From:sleazy-eyes Posted on 2000-08-17 21:23:00 Yup, Sam Leong's site is indeed a goldmine of useful information. The pornographic materials on his site require an adult check ID, but the other materials can be accessed by anyone. I find his reports very comprehensive and detailed, though not always up-to-date. I am most impressed by his outstanding coverage of the commercial sex scene in Singapore, both in terms of accuracy and depth of coverage. Besides this, he also covers neighbouring cities like Johor Bahru and Batam. The discussion forum hosted at Delphi is an extension of his website. There, people can discusss anything sex-related. Of course, the highlight of the forum are the field reports posted by brothers who have cheong the respective houses of sin. An accurate field report is greatly appreciated in the forum because it allows the cheongsters to spend their hard-earned money on quality service and warns people not to squander their cash on poor service. The forum has evolved even within the 2 months I've been visiting it. Last time, a lot of people will post field reports and exchange contacts of unlicensed pros, but now there is a certain level of awareness that the AV might be watching. To guard against the potential threat that the AV might pose to the ladies, much discussion of unlicensed sex has gone underground, and discussions on them are generally deleted after their period of interest is over. The overall consensus is that Sammyboy has done a great service to the community, by providing a goldmine of information on the local sex industry and promoting a culture of interaction and sharing amongst cheongsters. He is as deserving of the National Day Awards as were any of this years recipients. From:sleazy-eyes Posted on 2000-08-17 21:30:00 FYI, BBBJ stands for "Bare Back Blow Job" - that is, BJ without a condom. From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-17 21:35:00 Seems that people here are all praises for him and his illustrious website. From:samson leong! Posted on 2000-08-17 22:32:00 i've been going to sammy's website for about 4 months now, always go everyday. it truely is a wealth of information, and it's truly a national treasure!! tell me, what other website can u go to for such "privileged information"? hehe...anyway it's not only trashy and porno talk, sometimes pertient ones like,eg. the national day parade screwup(?), are given adequate airtime and discussion. but some of the times, u'll also get pple who "tua kang" (make up grandfather/grandmother stories)....morale of the story, don't believe everything u read man! From:sleazy-eyes Posted on 2000-08-17 22:40:00 Generally, those articles in the "General Sex Discussion" cannot really be trusted. Usually I only trust those field reports written by the lao chiao of the forum. From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-18 00:50:00 Daddy's Little Girl, The new song at your homepage is quite cool. Is Maria Nayler your favorite female singer? I don't think she is very popular in Singapore. In any case, your homepage is getting better, keep it up. Sorry for posting private messages, I forgot daddy's little girl's email address. From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-18 00:52:00 Maybe we should recommend that Sam Leong get some lifelong achievement award. WHAHAHAHAH. From:Matt Posted on 2000-08-18 11:24:00 yup certainly evolved alright. now there is even one religious discussion going on. maybe the Christian forum antioch censores stuff that are not "edifying" so the more anti-establishment backsliden ones go to Sammyboy. har har! From:e[vil]-femme Posted on 2000-08-18 11:42:00 People who visit prostitutes are, in a single word - sluts. There is a difference between a prostitute and a slut. To a prostitute, it is a job. His website, in reality, is just a pimping front. How else do you describe it? All in the name of promoting prostitution. Generally degrading to women, protraying them as sex objects, to be used and discarded. Their articles in comparing prostitutes basically encourages those men who already visit prostitutes to continue visiting or those who haven't, to start. I can't include women in the above statement for obvious reasons: I don't think anybody 'did' any male prostitutes for comparision. Since that one and only time that I went to the website out of curiosity. Visiting prostitutes is one of the greatest evils in this world. I don't see how anybody can say his website is deserving of any medal. He only has my condemnation and for those who approve, honestly, I think you better search within yourself and ask what kind of values are you going to pass down to your children and what kind of a character your future wife needs to suffer. Like I said before, I have never known anyone who visited prostitutes before marriage to stop after marriage. It is a curse that they place on themselves. Such men/women will never be able to have a happy family unless they change themselves. They can never be happy because their whole life is centred around selfish gratification. And they are incapable of making others happy because of this same selfish gratification. The constant craving that needs to be satisfied will lead them to continue visiting until they pick up a disease. While they are ignorant of the disease, they infect other prostitutes and the curse will continue. The worst thing in the world is that these sluts become a burden and a disgrace to their families. A man infected his wife and caused his unborn child to be deformed. Not forgetting the anguish that he brings to his parents as well. There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. Sooner or later, these people's curse will reveal themselves. If you visit a prostitute, who are you to stop your children from doing so? You may just stop at women prostitutes, but can you guarantee that your child will stop at that too? All in the name of self-gratification. If it weren't for that, we wouldn't have child prostitution, kidnappings and sex slave rings. Sammyboy's website is worse than a pornographic site. I feel sorry for his parents who have produced such an evil man. His life can only go downhill unless he changes because he cursed himself. Mark my words. From:DaDDy's LiTTLe GiRL Posted on 2000-08-18 12:49:00 Gazy...Gazy...Gazy... Of coz that does not mean I will no longer be posting here! I have only visited that site once, thanks to this article. As for my site. Do you visit there regularly? I have update it for ages! That song has been there since the site was up...kekekeee... I don't like any singer in particular...just the song they sings... =D Glad you like my website~ From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-18 23:25:45 Evil femme, I beg to differ, in sammyboy's website, lot of good advice has been given to avoid sexually transmitted disease. If not for his educational website, I would not even have known that herpes can be transmitted through oral sex. People with emotional problems are given ample online "Aunt Agony" counselling. You must know, often gold is hidden among shit, you must know how to filter out the good stuff. Daddy's Little Girl : Well I don't know I just got to hear music from your illustrious website since last few days. From:Kongming Posted on 2000-08-19 14:17:49 Why sweep the ills of our society under the carpet? Out of sight, out of mind? With or without the website, like it or not, prostitution is here to stay, as in other affluent societies. To me, it is a matter of personal choice as one decides according to his values and of course, physical needs. Kongming From:sleazy-eyes Posted on 2000-08-20 00:23:38 Evil Femme, This is where I would have to totally disagree with you. First, you passed a moral judgement on prostitution that reflected your own bias. In reality, many people would beg to differ. The so called houses of sin are places where people go to unwind after a hard day's work, to entertain clients, etc. It's like watching an R(A) movie. Some people think having sex in the cinema is degrading - others think it's just for art and entertainment. Perspectives differ. Secondly, Sam Leong's web site is not a pimping front. He does not get a cent from the brothel owners. Even granting that he encourages people to visit prostitutes, it must be observed that his site has evolved far beyond just talking about commercial sex. Look at all the social and medical issues being discussed. Thirdly, I disagree with your assertion that prostitution degrades women to mere sex objects. I would like to see it as a business transaction. You have something to sell, and I'm willing to buy. Plain and simple. Of course to ensure my money is well spent I would demand quality products. But that doesn't mean I regard you as a lesser human being, in the same way as my demand for top class service at a restruant doesn't mean that I treat the waiter as an object. Fourthly, I disagree with your assertion that prostitution wrecks the family life. So long as the man has self control and uses adequate protection, he can have a normal family life. There are many women these days with an open mind towards their husbands looking for hookers. Mark my words. Fiftly, I agree with you that prostitution is all about self-gratification, but I hold that self-gratification is not as evil as you think. Such a negative perspective of self-gratification is highly reminiscent of the perspectives held by christian fundamentalists, who somehow view all human joy as unworthy or debasing. My stand is that each person's highest goal should be one's rational self interest - and that includes the pursuit of happiness. Sixth, what has slave sex rings and kidnapping got to do with prostitution in Singapore? Prostitution here has got to be licensed and approved before it is allowed to operate. There are strict guidelines and proper control mechanisms in place to prevent abuse or exploitation. Slave sex rings and kidnapping are against the law; the presence of licensed prostitution does not in any way diminish the criminality of these offences. Seventh, I take you to task on your use of the word "cursed". Only a religious fundamentalist would curse someone because his lifestyle and values differed from his own. I would prefer tolerance and mutual understanding instead. From:e[vil]-femme Posted on 2000-08-20 04:07:30 sleazy-eyes, quit fooling yourself. If you don't want your wife to go screw a prostitute, then don't do it yourself. Stop being a hypocrite about it. If you can tolerate your wife visiting prostitutes, then good for you. Good luck to you in finding such a wife. Should be compatible if that's what you're looking for in a woman. Part of marriage is about being faithful to one's spouse, the commitment to one's spouse. Visiting prostitutes is not it. I know of 2 men who caused their wives to give birth to deformed children. This is reality. It's not a joke or something that only happens to somebody else. Pornography is still pornography. Yes, I agree with you, Gazy that the site can be educational but it doesn't justify what it is. They can even feature CNN or whatever education channel on their website, so what? If you are not sexually promiscuous, there is no real need to find out the information, is there? Granted, by all means, read for knowledge sake. From what I can see, the replies have all conveniently dodge the issue that the website degrades women and treats them as sex objects. It's easy to justify as a business transaction of course. But then lots of sexist / racist behaviour also continue under the umbrella of business. Yes, crime exists too but does it make it right? This is my moral stand: Prostitution is WRONG and it has got nothing to do with me being religious but rather the horrors which I have read about. Men turning to child prostitutes just to assure themselves that they don't get diseases. Women getting abused and beaten up by pimps, forced into such a living. Or to feed their drug habits, get out of poverty. It is a curse because there is no good that can ever come out of prostitution. This prostitute once told my mum that she could NEVER save money from her earnings because her money was not earned through honest means. As soon as she managed to save some, she would either lose it, get it stolen or fall seriously ill, the money used to pay the medical bills. People always think of prostitution in a very detached way. As far as I'm concerned, if you think prostitution is alright, nothing wrong, then one day your son or your daughter comes up to you and says he or she wants to be a prostitute, what is your answer? Even your parents or yourself for that matter. If you can say yes, then I applaud you for your consistency. If you can say no, then I say, Stop being hypocritical. If you are single, it doesn't mean you are without influence on the behaviour of your friends. If you are married with children, trust me, after the stint I had as a relief teacher, don't tell me parents' moral values have no effect on children. I have seen too many kids screwed up because their parents can't set a good example to them. Women who allow their husbands to visit prostitutes are just screwing up their own kids for nothing. I will defend my children's well being to death. Children are innocent and they are not deserving of the evil their parents do. If sleazy-eyes, you can't see that, why don't you try to be a relief teacher and experience first-hand what these children go through when their parents are screwed up. Prostitution is a personal issue. I start by taking my own stand. If there is no demand, there is no supply. By the way, has anybody come across a performance rating of the customers? I would be interested to know out of the number of testers, how many managed to bring a prostitute to an orgasm in how many minutes and what were their penis sizes. Degrading? No more so than comparing the performances of the prostitutes themselves. I mean, let's have an objective comparision, right? Why should it be one-sided? Performance is relative, no? And another thing, no self-respecting woman would allow another woman to be treated in such a manner. Your future wife, girlfriends, partners, they are all women. How do you think they feel when someone they love is capable of treating a woman like trash? It brings doubts into their minds about that person. Everything I've listed here, goes the same for the men too. By its very nature, prostitution is a curse. Anyone who thinks he or she can get away with it, is damn stupid. Because the experience will stay with you for life. And you will remember and you will remember. And when you have sex with another person, you will remember and you will compare. Is that fair? No. Perhaps if your partner does the same to you, it'll be fairer. Sleazy-eyes, what makes you so sure that that sex slave rings and kidnappings don't exist in Singapore? You are talking about the licensed ones, aren't you? So because it doesn't happen in Singapore and it happens somewhere else, makes it right? My principle in life is simple: I don't do what I can't bring myself to do and what I don't want other people to do to me. That is my consistency in my stand. It's got nothing to do with religion and incidentally, I don't regard myself as religious because I know I'm far from it. Can't even call myself a fundamentalist if I wanted to. I'll probably get laughed at by them. So kindly stop dragging religion into it unless it's a religious debate which I'll be happy to indulge you anytime you want. My tolerence for people who visit prostitutes is zero. They only have my contempt. What do you expect? Oh, he's okay coz this prostitute wasn't forced but she volunteered for this profession? And this man is not okay coz the prostitute is forced? Do you think such a man makes a difference to a prostitute? Or any man for that matter? I think she only hopes she can survives each session. Understanding? What is there to understand? Everybody has needs. So? Must one gratify it in such a manner? By the way, visiting a prostitute is not the same as watching a R(A) movie. Watching an X rated movie, maybe since it's all in the pornography industry. By the way, I still remember the last time they featured a documentary in Singapore on the licensed prostitutes, the pimps and the prostitutes said that majority of their clients don't use condoms. Even if you use a condom, don't be too sure you can't get infected. I need only remember the stupid expatriate whose condom broke and I laugh. From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-20 04:40:48 Sexually promiscuous or not, it is good to know the procedures of safe sex. People never know when are their "urgent" moments in which they have to have sex. You cannot expect the guy to tell the girl, "Ay, you wait har, let me access Sam Leong to know how to perform this act safely" You must know all those procedures by heart, go through in your own heart over and over again so that you can be truly safe From:colette Posted on 2000-08-20 07:38:44 i don't think prostitution is good or right but let's face it, men like sex and they like it a lot, if they can do it and have it for 24 hours a day, they will want and do it. if there're no women willing to prostitute themselves for money, a lot more women would probably end up being raped. so, i don't frown on the existence of prostitution but i don't encourage it either. unfortunately, sometimes it's the only form of living some women know how to make money and i don't think they enjoy being pawed by all manners of men, but could we not just respect them? it's a honest (although repulsive to me, meaning that i pray that i never have to live that way) way for them to get bread on the table, i just hope that they get out of the pit they've found themselves in soon. as for women who are forced into prostitution rings, i hope that when men visit such prostitutes, they will find the strength and courage to help free them, for they are not prostitutes by choice but by force. as for children who are being forced into prostitution, well, their government should do something about it by giving them opportunites to get out of the poverty trap and all men and mankind should have the collective conscience not to exploit them, but give them a chance to live like a decent human being. visit prostitutes if you must but do it with a clear conscience and that would mean no more visits to the fun house after you're married. obviously, personally, i want my boyfriend or husband not to have visited any prostitutes at all, either prior to marriage or after marriage, i can't handle the thought. if he can handle the same thought of me paying men money to have sex and fun, then there's room for discussion, but if the thought of me paying for the privilege of having sex with strange men turns him off, then it should be easy for him to understand how i feel about him visiting prostitutes. by the way, Christians (well, at least me on my good mood days) are a lot more tolerant than most of you think. God included in Jesus Christ line-up of ancestors, a prostitute: Rahab (his great grandmother if i'm not wrong) and she lies (well, to save the Isrealite spies anyway. is lying acceptable then?). come on, the genealogy of Jesus Christ is so twisted that it comforts me no end that mine is less so, if any of you are interested, just read the first book of the bible: Genesis. the people in there are so dysfunctional, their lusts and desires are so much like us these days that you can surely find someone you can identify with well, it's truly fascinating: the betrayals, the sex, the rape, the jealousies, the bitching, the conniving ways of the patriarchs, the murders, all those sinful things that Man loves, you name it, Genesis has it, it's one of my favourite books. for the simple reason that at the end of it all, twisted and disobedient as we're prone to be, God loves us all, loves us still. well as they use to say: love the sinner, not the sin. not a easy concept to practice in reality though. and i need to get back to bed, woke up just to pee at 6.25 am. on a Sunday? DUHHH!!! that's the whole problem with my body recognising 6 to 7 hours as sufficient sleep. i want to sleep for 12 hours on Sundays without waking up to pee, i long for those days, let's hope i fare better next Sunday. if not, there'll be personal notes like this which i'm sure some (if not all) of you can do without. hahahaha ... ah well, blame it on the sleepy brain. good nite or morning, everybody. From:winter Posted on 2000-08-20 14:05:41 colette, are u sure men want it 24 hours a day? i believe they have been cursed with this great need to sleep afterwards (a cigar in the interval not withstanding) so as not to kill themselves foolishly trying to gratify their lust. many men do not have choice but to go to prostitutes, think about the foreign workers or the average lonely singaporeans, not everyone can get to do it with a 'stead', not everyone gets a stead. I won't speculate if they will turn into monsters otherwise, somebody has to cater to them, maybe just for being merciful? As for those who have the choice, let's not lump them all into one category. there are those who are disloyal to their family, that's not right, they shouldn't have had family in the first place. However there are some who prefer this type of impersonal sex, maybe because normal relationship is too complicated to handle. Not everyone who visits a pro brings harm to someone else. And if my daughter would come up to me and tell me that she's thinking of going into prostitution, I'll make sure she is sure of this, that no one forces her into this, that she knows the whynots and be prepared for the mud others sling at these women. From:colette Posted on 2000-08-20 16:19:29 winter, i did qualify my statement with the ever useful "if", obviously it's technically impossible for any man to be at it 24 hours a day, he needs sleep and recharging. kind of unfortunate that between the sexes, it's the females who have the greater capacity to enjoy sex longer and yet most of us are not that moved to seek it constantly, isn't it? prostitution will always exist as long as there're unsatisfied men, either they can't have regular sex with their partners, when they can't be satisfied by their partners or just plain sex starved. it's a personal choice as to whether they go to the prostitutes for release or seek some other alternatives. i'm not against men going to the prostitutes as long as he's not my boyfriend or husband. From:e[vil]-femme Posted on 2000-08-21 00:02:47 Sure, I can accept men need sex. Women as well, for that matter. What I cannot accept is the so-called lack of control and discipline. Do you honestly think men can accept the same reasoning given by a woman? Why the double standards? Good men don't visit prostitutes because they are able to understand the concept of 'Where there is no demand, there is no supply'. They have principles and respect for women. When a man visits a prostitute, I don't question his need, I question his character. There is a subtle difference here. If perhaps Sammybody's website kept to educational purposes, I would say, why not? You can call it anything you want. But a pornographic site is still a pornographic site and it exists to promote pornography. The inability to stop is part of the nature of the curse. The more you have your needs satisfied by a prostitute, the more you need to have them satisfied by a prostitute. Why start at all? However there are some who prefer this type of impersonal sex, maybe because normal relationship is too complicated to handle. Not everyone who visits a pro brings harm to someone else. winer, such socially dysfunctional people need to grow up and get real. Period. You can't hide behind impersonal sex forever. You don't even need a prostitute for impersonal sex. The only difference as far as I can tell, a man who visits a prostitute is not obligated to perform as a lover. There is no pressure on him at all. He is just there to get his needs satisfied. Your last point about not bringing harm. That, I find very naive. Because he is contributing to the demand, if nothing else. Being a prostitute, is not just being the subject of gossip. You are talking about the type of abuse that a woman can potentially subject herself to. Haven't you read in the papers about this prostitute who having refused a client's request for some form of sex act, got beaten up by him? Do men think so lowly of themselves that they believe they cannot control their urges? Just as women have moved ahead with the times, don't you think men should too? From:sleazy-eyes Posted on 2000-08-21 00:08:42 Evil Femme, FYI, I am going out with a gal who does freelance work - if u know what I mean. I tolerate her activities because I know she needs the cash, and being the poor student I am, I can't provide it for her. I do not think that what she is doing is wrong. She's just trying to survive and live a more comfortable life in this affluent society. I do not purposely befriend gals who have this trait. However if I happen to like one who does, my first action will be to practice tolerance and see if I can accomodate her lifestyle. There are those coal miners and nuclear plant workers who also caused their wives to have deformed children as a result of their hazadous occupation. Are you going to condemn them? Maybe we should encourage high risk people to get proper medical checkups before having kids rather than just condemning the whole issue itself. In our society, any crime that is committed under the umbrella of prostitution such as child molestation or forcing a woman into the trade, will be appropriately punished. Every thing is a double edged sword. Sometimes it doesn't suffices to just condemn the whole sword. You anecdote on the woman becoming ill when she tried to save money is irrelevant and has no bearing to the issue. I am not so superstitious as to believe that one can be cursed just because one practices a shady trade. When in Rome I tend to do as the Romans do. Of course I would prefer my gal not to continue her trade. But there are certain material things we can't do without. I have my faults too. If she can overlook them, why can't I overlook hers? Reality is plastic. Mould it as you deem fit. FYI, many prostitutes in singapore do not feel they are being used, marginalized, or treated like dirt. I know of some who already can support themselves with a decent job if they go back to their hometown, but they choose not to. They have self-esteem and do not view themselves as lesser people just because of their profession, even though people like you obviously would. Sure, such people are not the majority out there, but the fact is that they exist. And FYI yet again, a latest survey on Sammyboy's forum shows that above 2/3 of patrons to brothels would definately wear a condom no matter which prostitute they visit. From:FluffyPuppy Posted on 2000-08-21 10:01:03 "When a man visits a prostitute, I don't question his need, I question his character. There is a subtle difference here." how is there a co-relation between the character of a man and his practice of visiting prostitutes? is he a bad character just because he pays to secure sexual satisfaction? why should he have his character questioned if he does not beat them (without consent), he pays the agreed amount of money? isn't this a moral call? and if it is, shouldn't one declare the moral ground from which one operates from first in order for clearer understanding of argument? "If perhaps Sammybody's website kept to educational purposes, I would say, why not? You can call it anything you want. But a pornographic site is still a pornographic site and it exists to promote pornography." urm, isn't that a truism? isn't that like saying, when asked if a beef soup is tasty, 'its soup, it has beef and it will always be beef soup!' - one doesn't really answer the question. shouldn't the more rational question hinge on whether the nature of sam leong's pornography can produce information and insight into sexual and sociological habits of s'poreans? "The inability to stop is part of the nature of the curse. The more you have your needs satisfied by a prostitute, the more you need to have them satisfied by a prostitute. Why start at all?" again, are there studies that show men who are well satisfied by prostitutes will always return to prostitutes? isn't this a logical fallacy? i.e. accepting the premise is, by ipso facto, acceptance of conclusion? "Your last point about not bringing harm. That, I find very naive. Because he is contributing to the demand, if nothing else." urm, there has always been demand for sex. from pubescent boys and girls to married couples to dirty old men. i fail to understand how 'demand' per se can be used as a premise for harm. should harm be qualified as violence against and cheating of prostitutes instead? wuff! From:e[vil]-femme Posted on 2000-08-22 19:27:30 I spent some time thinking about why is prostitution wrong. I mean, if you think about it, what's the big deal? A person needs a service and the other person provides it. But the pictures that you guys paint is a very sanitized picture of the trade, where things are safe and so-called hygenic and disease free. I find that delusional. Sure, I can believe SOME of time the prostitutes have it safe. Did you read about the Cambodia prostitution problem? Did you read about India's and Thailand's child prostitution problems? These Cambodian women are not even women, they are teenagers, about 14, 15 years old. You may not want to sleep with prostitutes that young but the fact remains that enough men do because else they won't be able keep their jobs. And enough men move on to little boys and little girls to make child prostitution viable. Why do I question a guy's character if he visits a prostitute? For one thing, how sure am I that he is not screwing a teenager or a child? What assurance do I have that he is not an abuser? The fact remains that the sex act with a prostitute is not about love and respect for another person. It's all about sex. In fact, I would consider it one-sided sex because I doubt the prostitute's pleasure rarely come into the picture. What assurance do I have that he hasn't picked up a disease or he will not pick up a disease? A man, because of his selfishness, can cause a lot of harm to his innocent partner, future or otherwise. sleazy-eyes, in the case of your girlfriend, she has my sympathies. As bad as it sounds, I still firmly believe that if there is no demand, there is no supply. Your girlfriend would not be able to work as she does if it weren't for the demand. Prostitution is a fast way to earn money where manpower could be spent elsewhere learning a useful skill that could carry the person to the next level. You may not realise this, sleazy-eyes and you may not believe that it is a curse but a prostitute and her clients will age a lot faster. And the age will show around their eyes. That's just one of the signs. Observe your girlfriend long enough and you will know it's going to be really hard to get out of the situation where she is. All you need is some dumb asshole of an ex-client to come up to you and crack stupid jokes. That's what I mean by, you won't forget. From:FluffyPuppy Posted on 2000-08-22 21:52:43 hi all! its important to keep the discussion focused for meaningful debate otherwise it spirals into generality the main centres of prostitution in sam leong are local, i.e. geylang. so lets focus on prostitution in s'pore and not extrapolate since the health standards of prostitution in some asian countries pale in comparison to s'pore. hence, to argue against prostitution in s'pore by appealing to the dire state of prostitution elsewhere is comparing apples and oranges. "Why do I question a guy's character if he visits a prostitute? For one thing, how sure am I that he is not screwing a teenager or a child? What assurance do I have that he is not an abuser?" if one cannot be assured of a patron's desire for children, then its safe to say one doesn't know if indeed the patron is or isn't a paedophile. if one doesn't know, isn't it safer to refrain from character judgement? after all, reserving judgement until evidence is a better reflection of one's self than immediate castigation is it not? furthermore, in s'pore, the vice-squad and MOH representatives make regular checks on local brothels to ensure, 1. prostitutes are registered (i.e. valid work permit) and they are not below the legal age of consent - 16, and 3, prostitutes undergo regular HIV screenings - unlike other asian countries. therefore with all these checks the chances of paedophilia are slim in s'pore. "The fact remains that the sex act with a prostitute is not about love and respect for another person. It's all about sex. In fact, I would consider it one-sided sex because I doubt the prostitute's pleasure rarely come into the picture." another truism. prostitutes are women who provide sexual services for money. their pleasure is a capitalistic one and not a sexual one. they are not in the profession for love and respect. "A man, because of his selfishness, can cause a lot of harm to his innocent partner, future or otherwise." if by harm one means STD, yes. if so the problem lies with issues of contraception. prostitutes in s'pore are strenuously encouraged and educated by MOH representatives to insist on condoms. however, if by harm, one means the non-disclosure of a patron's unprotected sex with a prostitute to his romantic partner then it is an issue of deceit. deceit as we know is found in all walks of life and therefore not a cohesive argument against prostitution. wuff! From:Gazy Posted on 2000-08-23 02:10:04 Anyway, sorry to interrupt the argument, we have thought of interviewing a prostitute for a faroutnews.com's feature special, but as it seems, they are protected by pimps and we will be beaten up if we interview them. Anyone has a solution? From:FluffyPuppy Posted on 2000-08-23 03:50:51 why don't you just buy the prostitute's time? pay the pimp as you would in a normal sexual transaction and use the time to speak to her? $50 ought to cover an interview. wuff! From:KissOrBite Posted on 2000-08-23 04:12:40 No way... sure get into trouble... the pros must be thinking... "wat the hell r u trying to ask when we r suppose to be having sex?"... if u get a "nasty" one, then suay lah... get ready to receive some century eggs from the big boss... best to go with the infamous Ah Sam... boy this is getting interesting....... From:sleazy-eyes Posted on 2000-08-23 13:55:44 Gazy, Would u be willing to interview a freelancer for a small fee? If u would then there is a possibility i could make arrangements. However the id of the freelancer must be 100% top secret. ........Continued Next Page