Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

[allanlee]

............. the Singapore Government will have no record of alternative citizenship.

Not entirely true...... the singkieland gahmen has vice versa arrangements with foreign gahmens to notify each other of newly converted citizens from each others' land....... on top of that in some countries singkieland agents also go around collecting data on their ex or soon-to-be ex singkies coz sometimes the foreign gahmen may make an honest mistake and leave out a couple of names

What the singkieland gahmen do with the info collected........ I dun know but they do know if you have acquired another citizenship

 

[eatshitndie]

Not entirely true...... the singkieland gahmen has vice versa arrangements with foreign gahmens to notify each other of newly converted citizens from each others' land....... on top of that in some countries singkieland agents also go around collecting data on their ex or soon-to-be ex singkies coz sometimes the foreign gahmen may make an honest mistake and leave out a couple of names

What the singkieland gahmen do with the info collected........ I dun know but they do know if you have acquired another citizenship

you and ahso1 seem to have better insights about the law and policies than anyone else here. thank you for the insights. got a couple of questions for you.

i know it is an offense under the immigration act for an sg citizen to enter sg with a foreign passport (they spell it out clearly that it applies to a sinkie citizen with a foreign citizenship), and if caught, the fine is up to sgd1000 or 6 months in jail. does this also imply that if you have dual nationality and you enter sg with a valid sg passport, they will let you thru'? they can't apprehend you because the law is not contravened. and that caveat is one way of them to close an eye on dual nationality?

can they also use the isa to slap an offense on anyone holding a foreign passport while being an sg citizen? i can't find that anywhere in the isa. which section in the isa is vague but at the same time generic enough to cover that charge?

Thank you.

 

[eatshitndie]

Then why the paranoia and fear. Every thread on dual citizenship you post comments that clear show fear. Most of us have not done anything wrong to have fear.

When asked to explain, you quote laws that are no applicable. There must be a basis for your fear. The only consistency in all your posting is your fear.

After much persusion, you quoted Sec 129 of the consitution. When it was explained to you, then it was Sec 134. Again you misinterpreted it. Then after a while, you came out with the Immigration Act, which was also misinterpreted by you.

Then you came out with a story about your friend who has French passport.

I have no doubt that everyone in this thread is cautious and have no desire to commit an offence or do anything illegal. Thats the purpose of this thread.

Do be rational and objective. Frankly what you do in the US has nothing to do with dual citizenship and the issue at hand.

frankly my dear, i was throwing bait out there, hoping that you can further enlighten us all on your knowledge about other sections of the law that will either contradict or support the convoluted and vague laws/policies of the sg gov, but you have failed to point them out in your so called "insider" position. i have seen 3 cases before me, and they contradict your position that it is ok to play trial and error with the sg gov on dual nationality. when presenting facts, it's good to leave the best for the last, and have the last laugh.

 

[scroobal]

You are still living in the 70s. Gone are the reciprocal arrangements to notify. Gone are days when countries forbid dual citizenship. Things have moved on. The purpose of the this thread is to work out what is current. There is no need to change name. There is a field in disembarkation card which requires you to disclose if you have travelled under a different name.

Check out this thread.
http://www.singsupplies.com/showthread.php?t=815&highlight=dual+citizenship

It already well known among the businessmen and those who migrated and those who travel in and out that dual citizenship is no longer frowned upon. Just don't do silly things like make false declaration and you will be fine. If you have valid singapore passport, do use it enter or exit singapore. If not use your foreign passport. What is clear is that there is no law forbidding it.

No one is interested in what took place just after WWII. I suppose by now you do realise that table top dancing is allowed.Lets not live in fear, myths and rumours. You have every right to know your exact position.

Not entirely true...... the singkieland gahmen has vice versa arrangements with foreign gahmens to notify each other of newly converted citizens from each others' land....... on top of that in some countries singkieland agents also go around collecting data on their ex or soon-to-be ex singkies coz sometimes the foreign gahmen may make an honest mistake and leave out a couple of names

What the singkieland gahmen do with the info collected........ I dun know but they do know if you have acquired another citizenship

 

[scroobal]

He too like you pointed to the laws of singapore in much earlier post but when asked could not provide any. Why don't the 2 of you work offline and find the law that forbids dual citizenship.

We sure as hell can't find any.

can they also use the isa to slap an offense on anyone holding a foreign passport while being an sg citizen? i can't find that anywhere in the isa. which section in the isa is vague but at the same time generic enough to cover that charge?
Thank you.

 

[AhSo1]

Not entirely true...... the singkieland gahmen has vice versa arrangements with foreign gahmens to notify each other of newly converted citizens from each others' land....... on top of that in some countries singkieland agents also go around collecting data on their ex or soon-to-be ex singkies coz sometimes the foreign gahmen may make an honest mistake and leave out a couple of names

What the singkieland gahmen do with the info collected........ I dun know but they do know if you have acquired another citizenship

In our post 9/11 world there are indeed more arrangements with other nations to share certain information but usually with an emphasis on security issues. So unless you are a terrorist or a criminal, this wont be applicable. You do not need to be fearful of having a Western/foreign Nation reporting to the Singaporean Authorities your nationality status for the simple expedient rule of reciprocity.

Whenever a foreign sovereign state codifies agreements with another, the agreement must be reciprocal in nature. For example, Singapore will not share financial details of countless foreigners in Western Countries as its not in Singapore's best interests to do so. Issues of national security are, but not nationality status nor financial.

 

[Asychee]

why give up your sg citizenship when you agree that there's no penalty and nothing to lose in having dual citizenship? this logic is baffling.

Not sure if it is baffling to you.

I dont know about alot of things, i am just a "O"level - maybe that is why i am not qualified to think for myself eh. My logic is that If you have a govt that is holding hostage to your years of hard earn saving and the father is still in the shadows, wifey controlling the country $$ and losing it big time and related family controlling the various important govt agency.

My simpleton harebrain is telling me if giving up this citizenship is the way to get my $$. That is what i will do. I leave the great debate for highly educated Sgean who are way smarter and has more bandwidth than i can even achieved to debate of the merits of hanging on to the Sg citizenship.

 

[Asychee]

In our post 9/11 world there are indeed more arrangements with other nations to share certain information but usually with an emphasis on security issues. So unless you are a terrorist or a criminal, this wont be applicable. You do not need to be fearful of having a Western/foreign Nation reporting to the Singaporean Authorities your nationality status for the simple expedient rule of reciprocity.

Whenever a foreign sovereign state codifies agreements with another, the agreement must be reciprocal in nature. For example, Singapore will not share financial details of countless foreigners in Western Countries as its not in Singapore's best interests to do so. Issues of national security are, but not nationality status nor financial.

In CA, the privacy law protects in such a way that info is not given from one to another govt office without your approval. Issues like you having another citizenship or giving up your other country citizenship - they would not even bother with it. I got this info from a ex sgean who is working in the CA border Sercuity Agency.

 

[Papsmearer]

You got to respect people's wishes and desires. Let them make their own choices. The purpose of this thread is share experiences and look for factual information. Please can verify and make informed choices.

All you have done is keeping misinterpreting the laws which is not the right thing to do. Why don't you check with someone who is good in the language and someone you can trust. Maybe your wife can help.

U keep saying this thread is to look for factual info, but u keep ignoring the facts and make statements about not living in fear and in the past. Lets look at the facts than:

fact: Holding another passport of another country is NOT LEGAL
fact: The law is at best murky about the exact punishment or non punishment that u will get for holding another passport.
fact: Its is a hassle to renew exit permit, passports, etc from another country.
fact: U are no longer legible for reservist or other NS obligations if u renounce your citizenship
fact: U and your spouse can take out all their CPF right away, usually in the hundreds of thousands of dollars by giving up your singapore passport.
fact: your son does not have to do their NS if they hold another passport and renounce.

Given all these facts, u really need to stop advising people to hold on to 2 passports. Its illegal, dangerous, and morally and ethically wrong. If someone gets caught, the PAP wants to make an example of them, will u serve their jail sentence for them? Don't be a bigger fool than u already are.

 

[neddy]

What I think...

I realised that the only fact about this issue if holding more than 1 passport is that the Singapore authorities are trying to make this issue ambigious - there is nothing more than a case-by-case determination of whether multiple passports are ACCEPTABLE to the authorities. FORGET about LEGALITY. One word passed down from the top (The Lees) will decide whether this is "legal" for not.

It is really up to the people whether they want to hold on to multiple passports. It is THEIR choice, and if they wish, they should make sure that they are "covered". Meaning - don't make false declarations to give the authorities excuse to jail them.

"illegal, dangerous, and morally and ethically wrong" by whose standards? Money laundaring is "illegal, dangerous, and morally and ethically wrong" as well, but the same authorities close one-eye because of $$$.

U keep saying this thread is to look for factual info, but u keep ignoring the facts and make statements about not living in fear and in the past. Lets look at the facts than:

fact: Holding another passport of another country is NOT LEGAL
fact: The law is at best murky about the exact punishment or non punishment that u will get for holding another passport.
fact: Its is a hassle to renew exit permit, passports, etc from another country.
fact: U are no longer legible for reservist or other NS obligations if u renounce your citizenship
fact: U and your spouse can take out all their CPF right away, usually in the hundreds of thousands of dollars by giving up your singapore passport.
fact: your son does not have to do their NS if they hold another passport and renounce.

Given all these facts, u really need to stop advising people to hold on to 2 passports. Its illegal, dangerous, and morally and ethically wrong. If someone gets caught, the PAP wants to make an example of them, will u serve their jail sentence for them? Don't be a bigger fool than u already are.

 

[neddy]

It is the same in Australia. If they need to pass information to third party, it will be stated clearly on the forms and need the owner's approval.

In CA, the privacy law protects in such a way that info is not given from one to another govt office without your approval. Issues like you having another citizenship or giving up your other country citizenship - they would not even bother with it. I got this info from a ex sgean who is working in the CA border Sercuity Agency.

 

[Papsmearer]

What I think...

I realised that the only fact about this issue if holding more than 1 passport is that the Singapore authorities are trying to make this issue ambigious - there is nothing more than a case-by-case determination of whether multiple passports are ACCEPTABLE to the authorities. FORGET about LEGALITY. One word passed down from the top (The Lees) will decide whether this is "legal" for not.

It is really up to the people whether they want to hold on to multiple passports. It is THEIR choice, and if they wish, they should make sure that they are "covered". Meaning - don't make false declarations to give the authorities excuse to jail them.

"illegal, dangerous, and morally and ethically wrong" by whose standards? Money laundaring is "illegal, dangerous, and morally and ethically wrong" as well, but the same authorities close one-eye because of $$$.

I don't understand fools like u. Why would u subject yourself to an ambiguos law determined on a case by case basis, if u are caught? The Lees can't be bothered with a small fry immigration case like the ones we are discussing here unless your name is chee soon juan or such. If u know anything, your case will be heard by some mid level immigration officer on some power trip, who is given god like powers on your case. Now, we have ego maniac power tripping CPIB officers interviewing lameis who obtain a sinkie passport on the false pretense of a sham marriage. Can u explain to me why ICA is not investigating this case, but the CPIB is? U want one of these power hungry fucks to oversee your case?

Don't digress into money laundering here. Keep on the topic. I can see what ur moral and ethical standards are.

 

[neddy]

I don't understand fools like u. Why would u subject yourself to an ambiguos law determined on a case by case basis, if u are caught? The Lees can't be bothered with a small fry immigration case like the ones we are discussing here unless your name is chee soon juan or such. If u know anything, your case will be heard by some mid level immigration officer on some power trip, who is given god like powers on your case. Now, we have ego maniac power tripping CPIB officers interviewing lameis who obtain a sinkie passport on the false pretense of a sham marriage. Can u explain to me why ICA is not investigating this case, but the CPIB is? U want one of these power hungry fucks to oversee your case?

Don't digress into money laundering here. Keep on the topic. I can see what ur moral and ethical standards are.

As far as I am concerned, I am ex-Singaporean.

But as far as some mid-level immigration officer, CPIB, ICA is concerned, bring these civil servants on. I will only be too glad to strike these authorities on where it hurt most. You Singaporean slave on Singapore passport do not have this privilege.

I hate to think what the Singaporean authorities think about news of their immigration double-standards deeds spread like swine flu across the mass media of the world.

It will be just like the "Singapore is a major money laundaring country news" and how the authorities now have to move things underground and appease the countries concerned. Try bringing in money from Singapore and see whether you will receive a phone call to ask you about the purpose of the money.

Moral and ethical standards? A mirror is useful when judging others on this. Ignorance is no excuse. Like what the bible say "Let him who is blameless strike the first stone"

 

[Charlie9]

Re: Dual Citizenship

Hello Brother [sctoobal],

Pardon me for digressing from the seriousness of this thread. As it is getting more serious and factual, I thought it may need a lighter digression.

From The Globe and Mail's Canada Day Edition, July 01, 2009.

Who is a Canadian?

Look in the mirror. Next question.

Our citizenship test?

Last year, author Kevin Callan explained to Explore magazine how to make love in a canoe. His advice included:

Choose a romantic setting. The best time is under a starlit sky and the best place is in the middle of a calm lake.

Create the proper mood by lighting candle lanterns at bow and stern.

For extra comfort, place a sleeping pad in the bottom of the canoe.

Take off all necessary clothing, especially footwear – bare feet ensure a better grip.

Assume the position of your choice.

End with a quick skinny dip to cool down.

I believe that making love on a beach is better than in a canoe. A sandy beach of a fresh water lake (and there are numerous in Canada, and there is one which is less than 50 m from the ocean at Antigonish, Nova Scaotia, Canada). A calm and moon lit night, with the gentle waves lapping the beach. The waves almost in sync with your or your spouse's movements. No other human beings near your cottage and the beach, except for the crickets and the owl hooting around midnight. When we are done, relax on the beach, followed by a playful swim in the lake, before drying up and walking back to the cottage to sleep.

 

[longbow]

Sex on beach in Canada. Usually too b### shrinking cold but in summer too many flies and bugs that will eat you alive.

Been going through both dual citizenship thread but no firm answer.

Has anyone who is holding citizenship of another country applied to renew their Singapore passport? If so did they declare the truth that they do have citizenship in another country? Was passport renewed?

If the reply is Yes, Yes, Yes then unofficially dual citizenship is accepted.

 

[Charlie9]

Re: Dual Citizenship, Warm or Cold

Warm and cold is relative.
For me, 25C is hot, but when it is humid, it becomes uncomfortable.
If there is such a thing as ideal, it would be a daytime high of 25C, sunny and breezy, less than 50% humidity, overnight low of 15C, during May, June, July and August when there are 13 to 15 daylight hours.
Whether or not one considers it cold in the summer in Canada, depends on where one resides, and how long an individual has been acclimatized.
As for me, I continue to wear my shorts and T shirt even when the high is 12 to 15C.

 

[longbow]

Re: Dual Citizenship, Warm or Cold

Talking about a comfortable temp.

I notice that my gfs have always complained that it is cold when I am feeling warm. I think women have a lower tolerance for cold then men.

 

[john_nyc_71]

Been going through both dual citizenship thread but no firm answer.

Has anyone who is holding citizenship of another country applied to renew their Singapore passport? If so did they declare the truth that they do have citizenship in another country? Was passport renewed?

If the reply is Yes, Yes, Yes then unofficially dual citizenship is accepted.

Someone on this board recently attempted this. Don't know the result.

Check out post #250 of this thread:

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=22063&page=13

 

[Charlie9]

Re: Dual Citizenship and Dual Passport

Please refer to
http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?p=269945#post269945

 

[attrape_l'arc_en_ciel]

Long time have not been to this forum. Again my child situation is haunting me. Just want to make long story short here. Is a child holding dual citizenship (EU and SG) will be fine living in Malaysia without being asked to pay bond, force to come back for NS? I took him out to France when he was 3 and now he's 7 yrs old. Circumstance make us wants to move to Malaysia.