An eye witness view of Aware EGM..some shocking details

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I particularly liked these 2 bits:p
The group that captured Aware on March 28 presented themselves as exceedingly moral beings. The group’s inspirator extraordinaire Thio Su Mien - lawyer, self-styled ‘feminist mentor’ and, by the looks of it, the world’s foremost expert on homosexuality - described her mentees as just a group of women who wanted to contribute to society.

It was nevertheless daft - no more appropriate word comes to mind - for six people from the same church to have attempted this takeover at Aware. What were they thinking of?

Never had been a fan of his but this is indeed an excellent piece. For the first time, I could understand every sentence.

 

[chewed]

aiyah get off your self righteous sanctimonius hobby horse lah...

always trying to take the moral high ground, judging others... if they dun succeed then they will try to confuse the issue. See VIBGYOR's attempt in other threads

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

hello for the umpteenth time can't you get it into your thick skull that this is NOT about LBGT...it is about religionists v public secular space in the context of multi religious singapore

so when it come to gay and lez issue, 144th is credible..solid siah!

fengshui lun liu zhuan...

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

that is why must not let them get away with their lame twists turns and distortions...

always trying to take the moral high ground, judging others... if they dun succeed then they will try to confuse the issue. See VIBGYOR's attempt in other threads

 

[chewed]

hello for the umpteenth time can't you get it into your thick skull that this is NOT about LBGT...it is about religionists v public secular space in the context of multi religious singapore

yep, LBGT is just the context that they are using.

this time round, using LBGT back-fired, i wonder what they will choose next.

 

[TeeKee]

hello for the umpteenth time can't you get it into your thick skull that this is NOT about LBGT...it is about religionists v public secular space in the context of multi religious singapore

yeah! what a nice cover for LBGT....secularism!!

people are fools for secularism...

 

[chewed]

that is why must not let them get away with their lame twists turns and distortions...

Porfirio,

unfortunately their tactic of using homophobia did worked to a certain point.

many idiots still think it's matter of pro & anti LBGT....

 

[chewed]

yep, LBGT is just the context that they are using.

this time round, using LBGT back-fired, i wonder what they will choose next.

i think next to come will be abortion, IR part II, stem cell reserach. No surprises there cos they take their cues from FoF

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

yah lor...like the above twit TeeKee...what to do, when you demonstrate to them that the world is round they keep holding onto the belief that it is flat

Porfirio,

unfortunately their tactic of using homophobia did worked to a certain point.

many idiots still think it's matter of pro & anti LBGT....

 

[TeeKee]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

i disagree, the road to hell is wide and easy..

the road to heaven is narrow and pave with rocks and sharp edges..

 

[TeeKee]

yah lor...like the above twit TeeKee...what to do, when you demonstrate to them that the world is round they keep holding onto the belief that it is flat

seriously, which christian u know still believe the world is flat?

 

[TeeKee]

i think next to come will be abortion, IR part II, stem cell reserach. No surprises there cos they take their cues from FoF

i tot this has always been the issues for Christians?

so what's new?

 

[RandomNexus]

Would Jesus have done what Josie did? I think the answer is a clear "No". Would Jesus have falsely accused of someone without proof like what Thio Su Mien accused Aware of encouraging girls to experiment lesbian sex? I think the answer is "No".

Would Jesus have used homosexuals as a convenient scapegoat to impose moral superiority? The answer is "NO".

If you are referring to Josie and gang as wanting to impose moral superiority, that is not their motive I think. It has more to do with their worry about their children about being exposed to accept homosexuality as being ok and normal. It is a concern that is rather deep among christians. However, it does give one an impression that it is attempting to impose its own values on an organisation when they move into Aware exco and attempting to change too far without consideration of others.

As for false accusations, I don't think Thio reckon that she is falsely accusing and she is likely to do it with a confidence of a moral basis. Good christians would not lie - it is simply abhoring to do so. I think Thio meant well just like the old Aware meaning well too. Personally I think it is far better to step away from value judgements on motives in this case.

Would Jesus have done what Josie did? I think the answer is a clear "No".

If you try to walk with Jesus, you would understand what empathy, sacrifice, love and kindliness are.

On these points about Jesus, I have to agree with you 100%. Yes, that is Jesus and yet, he is often scorned for what he is - no difference back in his time and even now.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

well their actions/words, especially that of the self declared feminist mentor dr thio sure seemed to show otherwise.

If you are referring to Josie and gang as wanting to impose moral superiority, that is not their motive I think.

As for false accusations, I don't think Thio reckon that she is falsely accusing and she is likely to do it with a confidence of a moral basis. Good christians would not lie - it is simply abhoring to do so. I think Thio meant well just like the old Aware meaning well too.

 

[TeeKee]

always trying to take the moral high ground, judging others... if they dun succeed then they will try to confuse the issue. See VIBGYOR's attempt in other threads

believe me, when talking about morality, he's definitely not the epitomy for us to learn.

we are all sinners...he's included...

i am not qualified about judging others....just letting you know about the bible...

if you feel touched, that's because your conscience is telling you otherwise..

 

[RandomNexus]

I disagree with you. It was the media who played the religious card trying to give Christianity a bad. I blame the press for breaking the religious harmony the govt had tried so hard to build. They are the guilty ones.

Yes the media played a big part in the portrayals no doubt. I did question whether the media has been biased. End of day, certain parts do stand out clearly. Remember, Claire Nizar, a Christian nominated a number of these Christians to join the exco, and in the end, she was the one who walked away. The new exco comprising Josie and others, has been insensitive in their actions and that prompt the reprisals. At times, they have been disrespectful. There are a number of issues which I think the bible has been clear of how we should act in this world, and the clear separation of what is "in the world" and not "of the world" - I think the local Christian leaders understood it very well, and came up with the correct statements. Josie and others also understood it well that Christianity cannot be used as a front for their actions. However one needs to go further and also learns to be "part of the world" and yet not "in the world". This is the test that the new Aware exco failed.

As for the disrespect shown to Josie and gang, I also think there are and as for such grievances, well, the bible suggests one should respond back in love and not "tit for tat". At some point, I think they have been gracious to wish Aware well when they resign. If they have started this way in the beginning, I doubt we have this saga as of now.

 

[SneeringTree]

As for false accusations, I don't think Thio reckon that she is falsely accusing and she is likely to do it with a confidence of a moral basis. Good christians would not lie - it is simply abhoring to do so. I think Thio meant well just like the old Aware meaning well too. Personally I think it is far better to step away from value judgements on motives in this case.

NO. I say she is falsely accusing because she made specific assertions about the Aware sex ed that are FALSE. This has nothing to do with value judgments. She claims that the Aware programme encourages girls to have lesbian sex with other girls. WHERE IS THE PROOF?

She claims that the lesbian themed movie, Spider Lilies, were shown to school girls as part of the Aware sex ed programme. This is so ridiculously false and a blatant lie.

Morality, even if justified- much less misplaced (in the case of Thio Su Mien) is not above honesty.

Say what you want, but make sure they are factual.

 

[TeeKee]

NO. I say she is falsely accusing because she made specific assertions about the Aware sex ed that are FALSE. This has nothing to do with value judgments. She claims that the Aware programme encourages girls to have lesbian sex with other girls. WHERE IS THE PROOF?

She claims that the lesbian themed movie, Spider Lilies, were shown to school girls as part of the Aware sex ed programme. This is so ridiculously false and a blatant lie.

Morality, even if justified- much less misplaced (in the case of Thio Su Mien) is not above honesty.

Say what you want, but make sure they are factual.

that begs the question....do you know why some criminals get scott free because there's lack of evidence in a court of law..etc.?

does it mean it's not true at all?

where's the fact in this?

by the way, how can you be sure what's really going on inside AWARE?

based on what you have written, why are you so self-righteous in your beliefs?

SPIDER LILY WAS SHOWN!! CHECK OUT THIS LINK!

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=26863

 

[commoner]

AWARE has gone to 11 schools last year alone... what lack of evidence you talking about,,,,

the students dunno how to talk huh?

 

[scroobal]

I do agree with you on one point - that their motive is not to impose moral superiority but the fear that their children are "taught" to accept homosexuality.

I however disagree with your claim that Thio "meant well" and was not "falsely accusing"

Serious allegations have been made. People's reputation have been affected. The takeover was planned and executed surreptiously. The actual agenda was denied until the Thio's email surfaced and an urgent press conference was held at RTC. Thio categorically stated that it was planned, in direct contradiction to what Josie and Maureen had stated publicly. If you read Thio's email, she clearly asked those who were responding to her call to join AWARE, not list her as an introducer and to leave it blank. There is clear and consistent pattern of lies and misrepresentation. In any context, this would qualify as reprehensible conduct. Don't you think so?

Always had time for your views but in this instance, you seem to be glossly over the harm done to a group of women who fought to bring a series of changes over time for the benefit of the female gender.

When the AWARE episode first erupted, I had made a comment about the failure of the old guards to build membership in one of my posts. I received an email from one of them who told me that many feared taking on strong stand on policies that irked the govt and therefore tended to leave. I was told to speak to a particular academic who had done reseach on the organisation and found that AWARE had to be told on many occasions to toe the line by the government including Ministers. Only a few were brave enough to hold on.

There is a vast difference between good intentions and the harm it does to others. Lets be mindful of those that have been wrongly accused.

If you are referring to Josie and gang as wanting to impose moral superiority, that is not their motive I think. It has more to do with their worry about their children about being exposed to accept homosexuality as being ok and normal. It is a concern that is rather deep among christians. However, it does give one an impression that it is attempting to impose its own values on an organisation when they move into Aware exco and attempting to change too far without consideration of others.

As for false accusations, I don't think Thio reckon that she is falsely accusing and she is likely to do it with a confidence of a moral basis. Good christians would not lie - it is simply abhoring to do so. I think Thio meant well just like the old Aware meaning well too. Personally I think it is far better to step away from value judgements on motives in this case.



On these points about Jesus, I have to agree with you 100%. Yes, that is Jesus and yet, he is often scorned for what he is - no difference back in his time and even now.