SDP Fantasy Economic Paper

[lockeliberal]

The latest policy paper by Dr Chee illustrates the depths to which ideological purity has usurped economic reality and pragmatism. The only other example I have within living memory when a politician saw things in clear ideological black and white and had the power to act on it left us with Iraq and the current financial mess. G Bush and Dr Chee have more in common than they realise with regards to a belief that democracy is a simple panacea for all the worlds ills. One does not have the ability thank god to act on his dreams, the other had.

Firstly the points raised by Dr Chee personally are relevant amd well written. What is tenous and what I disagree with are the conclusions and the prescriptions drawn as a result. The increased pressure with regards to tax havens are a fact as is the fact that the current president elect of the US sponsored a bill against tax havens of which Singapore was included.

Tax haven’s or low tax countries have existed since time immemorial as acknowledged by Dr Chee and a quick wiki search. The list of countries included as tax havens on Obama’s bill include democratic contries like Swisstzerland, Luxumborg, Latvia, other less democratic places on the list are places like Hong Kong and Singapore.


The Cato Insititute which is as fierce a promoter of democracy , political and economic liberalism as Dr Chee has argued in favor Tax Havens and not against.
The simple fact as seen from the existence of democratic liberal countries on the tax haven list is well simply put ITS NOT A MATTER OF DEMOCRACY BUT RATHER Economic Policy.

1. Dr Chee’s point basically is that its immoral and we should stop. The last politician that had a moral absolute gut instinct manner and acted on it was G Bush II and he had it with regards to democracy and how it would spread and take root in the Middle East.

2. International Politics and International Political Economy has never been about morality. It has been about screwing the other party for an economic or political advantage through political economic or military cocercion. Australia has been the most democratic nation on earth but when it came to natural resources it sure did not stop itself from screwing the Timorese in the East Timor. Gap. That’s the world we live in and no one not even democratic nations are nice to each other because we are democratic and liberal.

3. The Swiss got rich of being a tax haven as did Luxemborg. So why not Singapore ? And if the answer is morality then morality has never fed a nation. The last city state that I know of that got rich through morality in every sense was the Vatican.

4. The history of economic development has been that of slow steady progress over tens of years and at times hundreds of years. The swiss in that regards stands out for the amount of time and effort they put in to developing that sector. Reforming and revitalising an economy is an act of decades, Dr Chee’s answers should be seen as part of a broader solution for the Singapore economy and not as a replacement for a sector that contributes 25% of GDP.

5. We do have a problem with the income gap, but lets get real, its better to be rich and arguing abut how to divide the cake, then to be poor and argue about crumbs, He should not lump that argument together in his case against Singapore beingan off shore financial centre.

6. Where does he think the money that governments raise anywhere comes from even in a perfect democratic country if quote taxes and levies are scourge ? He does have a point about land prices but even that has to balanced of by the fact that the richest places on earth tend to have higher land prices which again goes back to point five.




Locke


“First, we need to reduce the cost of doing business in Singapore. Our land prices, dictated by the Government, have made it prohibitively expensive for businesses, especially for the locals. 
”


“Taxes and levies are another scourge. Whether it is the ERP, GST, foreign workers levy, road tax, radio and TV licence fees, the PAP is squeezing the lifeblood out of people and businesses. “Take, for example, the foreign-workers levy.

“We also need to democratise our political economy. This means that Singaporeans must be allowed to become the drivers of economic growth rather than the Government. Private enterprise, and not the GLCs, must lead our economy. If Singapore develops politically and its citizens find their rightful place in society, we will have the foundations of a system that is free and enterprising, one that will stimulate the entrepreneurial mind.

Depending on wealth as an offshore secrecy centre is both economically risky and politically untenable. “

“ The benefits from such an arrangement overwhelmingly go to a select few and not average Singaporeans. Let us get back to basics and make our money by working hard. And if we have the good fortune of becoming rich, let it be through our industry and enterprise. Depending on immoral earnings is not the way forward.”

 

[samurai1110]

His economic reality is how to have better income from false taxi fare claims.
His talent here will be much valued & highly sought after by the likes of people like Al Capone.

 

[Leegimeremover]

His economic reality is how to have better income from false taxi fare claims.
His talent here will be much valued & highly sought after by the likes of people like Al Capone.

Good evening PAP dog. Are monikers Div1, Samuraisan, Clinton666, Cass888, too jaded to use? Darn.......

 

[cass888]

His economic reality is how to have better income from false taxi fare claims.
His talent here will be much valued & highly sought after by the likes of people like Al Capone.

Don't forget stealing postage stamps!

 

[samurai1110]

Don't forget stealing postage stamps!

....... and this unscrupulous chap using little children, his sister and other bloody fools to fight his battle for him thinks he knows what's best for us!:(

 

[Alu862]

The latest policy paper by Dr Chee illustrates the depths to which ideological purity has usurped economic reality and pragmatism.

Correction IPE has been about morality if you read Karl Polanyi and Adam Smith closely. Smith was not a free market advocater.

 

[The_Latest_H]

I think no-one should have illusions that any alternative government can on day one totally reverse every single action by the PAP, and expect everything to fall into place.

There's always a period of transition and besides, there's many grey areas in the mentioned issues and as such it must be taken into consideration.

No-one expects for example that by just passing a law, or forcing capitaland to reduce their rentals would make SMEs immediately equipped to take over the GLCs as they retreat immediately. I mean, for one thing, selling away the toxic assets like Citibank is hard from the start, since its almost still worthless. The only group which can buy it over is the US Federal government.

 

[Alu862]

What's Chee's solutions to MNCs? Get hawkers to create their own enterprises?

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Alu

Polyani and Adam Smith were classical economist or political economist in a state centric argument. I never saw their works as being about morality per say but more in terms of an argument for a better way for societies and economies to organize and learn so as to create wealth.

IPE is a more modern and international subject and studies the interaction between international politics and international economics, it only really grew as a subject with the emergence of international economic organizations after the end of world war II.




Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear H

In looking at a certain set of facts , just because the PAP has adopted a certain set of policies for economic growth and development does not make the set of policies wrong in any way. My disagreement with Dr Chee is his total disregard for that set of facts in order for his world view to suit his ideology

I would argue for a better implementation of that "policy" or another set of policies but I would not argue any policy as being wrong in itself just because the PAP has claimed it as the correct solution.



Locke

 

[Alu862]

Dear Alu

Polyani and Adam Smith were classical economist or political economist in a state centric argument. I never saw their works as being about morality per say but more in terms of an argument for a better way for societies and economies to organize and learn so as to create wealth.

IPE is a more modern and international subject and studies the interaction between international politics and international economics, it only really grew as a subject with the emergence of international economic organizations after the end of world war II.




Locke

My dear locke,

You are terribly mistaken. Please read Watson, Matthew, 2005, Foundations of International Political Economy on Smith and Polanyi. It should be a starting point for all Singaporeans given their consumption behaviour

IPE only came about after the fall of the BW system.

 

[cass888]

3. The Swiss got rich of being a tax haven as did Luxemborg. So why not Singapore ? And if the answer is morality then morality has never fed a nation. The last city state that I know of that got rich through morality in every sense was the Vatican.

Haha. That is so true.

Then again, maybe the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan wants to be Pope (so it's not King or Emperor) of Singapore.

 

[The_Latest_H]

Dear H

In looking at a certain set of facts , just because the PAP has adopted a certain set of policies for economic growth and development does not make the set of policies wrong in any way. My disagreement with Dr Chee is his total disregard for that set of facts in order for his world view to suit his ideology

I would argue for a better implementation of that "policy" or another set of policies but I would not argue any policy as being wrong in itself just because the PAP has claimed it as the correct solution.



Locke

I think it comes down to the maxim where we must "be guided by what works". So if there are policies by the PAP that are found to be able to work, then we must see if it continues to work. If there are policies meant to be reformed and go through gradual evolution, then that's where we should go.

Of course, if there's policies that are meant for the trash- which could vary- then we must see which is the best course for this country.

In each policy though, there's no standardised method, since each policy is also different in application, even though each belong to a core group. Thus some, if not most, must be tailored accordingly, and applied differently.

Nonetheless, I do believe that S'pore government shouldn't have invested in toxic investments overseas. We have to be very careful in getting out, as we(thanks to Mr. Lee Sr) were exceedingly rash in getting in.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Alu

I would recommend Gilpin and the the The Political Economy of International Relations as a textbook, its still in my view the foundation of modern IPE. I would agree that IPE came after the fall of BW, though IPE as a field in order to understand BW and post BW looked at much earlier issues in depth including IOs and the gold standard.

I have always found personally IPE more rewarding than pure IR or IP.



Cheers


Locke

 

[scroobal]

The latest policy paper by Dr Chee illustrates the depths to which ideological purity has usurped economic reality and pragmatism.

The intended audience for the article is the US Congress and not Singaporeans. US congress has been targeting tax havens in a big way recently. When the US govt was after the drug running myanmar junta, he was on hot on that topic.

Notice that the list of tax havens practically names all sovereign islands that cannot survive as a country without an hinterland. HK is still there.

When I first read the article, I had to check who the author was for the 3rd time. I am still perplexed why someone who inflates a series of taxi fare claims and puts through a charge of more than $200 for a single article to be couriered using research funds suddenly finds tax haven immoral.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Good points Bro. I think Dr Chee should just stick to NVCD and HR issues, alternatively perhaps he needs to get proper economic policy advice from a local Krugman.

The Cato Insititute which is as fierce a promoter of democracy , political and economic liberalism as Dr Chee has argued in favor Tax Havens and not against.
The simple fact as seen from the existence of democratic liberal countries on the tax haven list is well simply put ITS NOT A MATTER OF DEMOCRACY BUT RATHER Economic Policy.

13. The Swiss got rich of being a tax haven as did Luxemborg. So why not Singapore ? And if the answer is morality then morality has never fed a nation. The last city state that I know of that got rich through morality in every sense was the Vatican.

4. The history of economic development has been that of slow steady progress over tens of years and at times hundreds of years. The swiss in that regards stands out for the amount of time and effort they put in to developing that sector. Reforming and revitalising an economy is an act of decades, Dr Chee’s answers should be seen as part of a broader solution for the Singapore economy and not as a replacement for a sector that contributes 25% of GDP.

5. We do have a problem with the income gap, but lets get real, its better to be rich and arguing abut how to divide the cake, then to be poor and argue about crumbs, He should not lump that argument together in his case against Singapore beingan off shore financial centre.

6. Where does he think the money that governments raise anywhere comes from even in a perfect democratic country if quote taxes and levies are scourge ? He does have a point about land prices but even that has to balanced of by the fact that the richest places on earth tend to have higher land prices which again goes back to point five.




Lockeand

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Perhaps, good point.

As an aside, there is an interesting commentary article by Tion Kwa in ST 9/12 on the economic collapse of Iceland due to financials, perhaps something Dr Chee should have picked up on to contrast with Singapore's situation.

The intended audience for the article is the US Congress and not Singaporeans. US congress has been targeting tax havens in a big way recently. When the US govt was after the drug running myanmar junta, he was on hot on that topic.

Notice that the list of tax havens practically names all sovereign islands that cannot survive as a country without an hinterland. HK is still there.

 

[scroobal]

Perhaps, good point.

As an aside, there is an interesting commentary article by Tion Kwa in ST 9/12 on the economic collapse of Iceland due to financials, perhaps something Dr Chee should have picked up on to contrast with Singapore's situation.

It was not an article based on economics or even simple commerce. The conclusion that he comes up points to that which which Locke correctly picks out.

I don't think economics is the issue or his intention. He is pretty smart picking this up as it is a burning issues. Even the Swiss and UBS has caved in with UBS exiting the wealth management business.

Unfortunately the Swiss did not build a submarine pen for the US fleet, nor give Terror Barracks to the US for nothing.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Going to be interesting to see how Obama deals with the PAP govt, especially since the Western media has once again been irked and irritated by the PAP govt.

It was not an article based on economics or even simple commerce. The conclusion that he comes up points to that which which Locke correctly picks out.

I don't think economics is the issue or his intention. He is pretty smart picking this up as it is a burning issues. Even the Swiss and UBS has caved in with UBS exiting the wealth management business.

Unfortunately the Swiss did not build a submarine pen for the US fleet, nor give Terror Barracks to the US for nothing.

 

[Alu862]

Dear Alu

I would recommend Gilpin and the the The Political Economy of International Relations as a textbook, its still in my view the foundation of modern IPE. I would agree that IPE came after the fall of BW, though IPE as a field in order to understand BW and post BW looked at much earlier issues in depth including IOs and the gold standard.

I have always found personally IPE more rewarding than pure IR or IP.



Cheers


Locke

Watson goes beyond the State and markets approach of IPE.