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Chitchat The Official TCSS Thread

THE_CHANSTER

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I think it all started to go wrong for Mourinho long before he joined United.
His decline really started when he fell out with Eva Carneiro back at Chelsea.

If you compare his performance with that of Moyes and LvG, I really don't see much of a difference.
 

jw5

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Today's EFL Cup Matches:

Southampton vs Sunderland
West Ham United vs Chelsea
Manchester United vs Manchester City........... which means the battle between: :biggrin:

i
 

jw5

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Ander Herrera impresses as Man United dump Man City out of EFL Cup

By Arindam Rej, Man United correspondent
espnfc.com

Manchester United's squad raised eyebrows before kick-off because of the continued omission of Henrikh Mkhitaryan but there was the encouraging sight of Michael Carrick returning in a deeper midfield role alongside Ander Herrera, with Paul Pogba pushed further forward. There was less optimism surrounding the heart of defence, with the central defence pairing of Marcos Rojo and Daley Blind.

United's squad was stronger than the one Manchester City picked but that was not apparent in the first half when City took the initiative. The home team looked more organised at the back than they were against Chelsea on Sunday, though, restricting the chances for Pep Guardiola's team. Jose Mourinho's men upped the tempo at the start of the second period and asserted themselves, eventually being rewarded when Juan Mata struck in.

After that, it was a chance for them to show the sort of solidity that characterised their display at Anfield and they limited City to precious little, although much of that was down to the disappointing nature of the visitors' display.

Positives

After the horror show at Stamford Bridge, the result was the most important outcome here... and United got it. The consequences of losing would have been deeply unpleasant for Mourinho, who had already tasted defeat once here against City this season, losing 2-1 in the league.

A clean sheet was another major source of encouragement considering how brittle United looked and the fact that they had put out a makeshift central defence.

Negatives

After a derby win, it is hard to be too critical but this was a disjointed display at times. In the early stages of the first half, it was clear that this United team wasn't yet comfortable playing together with these players on the pitch in these combinations.

Had City been more clinical and had Sergio Ageuro or Kevin De Bruyne on the pitch from the start, then they could have been punished for occasional lapses in concentration too.
 

jw5

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Pep Guardiola, in worst slump of his career, will stick to his plan at Man City

By Ian Darke
espnfc.com

Pep Guardiola was treated like footballing royalty when he arrived in England. Manchester City had got their man and surely success was only a heartbeat away. Here was the coach whose style and sophistication on and off the pitch would make City the envy of their rivals.

In fairness, Pep himself was the first to say it was not going to be that simple while other managers -- notably Liverpool's Jurgen Klopp -- warned him that the Premier League was a more demanding beast than most.

Of course, City started superbly with such a flourish that it was possible to believe that the revolution would be instantaneous. A one-horse title race looked in prospect.

But 10 wins on the bounce and goals galore have been followed by six games without a victory -- the worst run of Guardiola's managerial career -- and a strong suspicion that not all the players are finding it easy to play the Guardiola way. At the centre of the storm is the £47m defender John Stones, whose fan club includes some very good judges like my co-commentary colleagues Glenn Hoddle and Michael Owen. Stones' class is beyond doubt and he should bloom into a wonderful player for club and country, but at the moment his decision making is leading to costly errors and frayed nerves among the City fans.

One of those mistakes, an errant back pass, presented Southampton with a gift goal and a point at the Etihad last Sunday, after which Guardiola locked his players in the dressing room for 50 minutes,

"He told us to keep on believing in how we are trying to play and we do believe," said playmaker Kevin De Bruyne.

This is reminiscent of the story Guardiola himself tells of his early days coaching Barcelona. Results were not good and the young coach was worried. Then one day Andres Iniesta popped his head around the door to say: "Just keep on doing what you are doing." The rest is history.

Of course, at the Nou Camp Pep could call on Lionel Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Sergio Busquets, Gerard Pique, Javier Mascherano, and Dani Alves as his on-field disciples. The cast list in his next job at Bayern Munich was almost equally impressive, though there Guardiola could never quite capture the glittering prize of the Champions League.

He insists his play-out-from-the-back passing game is non-negotiable and gave Manchester journalists a sharp rebuke when they asked why he sticks to his plan even after the Claudio Bravo howler at the Nou Camp in the Champions League last week: "Because I have won 21 trophies like this," he said.

In other words, he believes that the occasional slips from Stones and Bravo will be more than compensated for by a winning brand of football based on passing, movement, making the pitch big and pressing hard to regain possession.

That all sounds easy, but players of Barca, Bayern and now City will tell you that it is not. It needs discipline, fitness and high quality.

What if results continue to falter and the players wearing light blue struggle to adapt? Would Guardiola have to tweak his style and sacrifice a few of his principles to find a winning way again? Isn't that what top coaches do: Work out a best pattern for the players available?

Yet Guardiola's message is clear: "I will play this way until my last day as a coach."

i


And is the previously untouchable ace scorer Sergio Aguero a part of his plans? Fair to say the decision to leave him out against Barcelona left many of us aghast, and it clearly did not work with the attack lacking a focal point.

It is too early to jump to any conclusions. City's recent slump may just be a transitional phase and, after all, they are still top of the table, albeit on goal difference.

Guardiola's problem may be that rivals are well clued-up on how his teams play and will undoubtedly try to high-press his team into errors as they look to build from the back. In the past, he has always found the answers given his innovative and restless coaching style.

You would back him to do exactly that again, but revolutions take time and this might well be his toughest assignment yet given the players at his disposal and the quality of the opposition.

Right now, City's chances of winning the title look no better than those of Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs or Chelsea.
 

jw5

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Pep Guardiola and Jose Mourinho need time before being properly judged

By James Dall
espnfc.com

Pep Guardiola unfazed despite knee-jerk talk of a crisis

Six games without a win and Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola is all washed up. You see, his team are apparently deep in crisis, because nothing screams the end of days like a side exiting the oh-so-defining EFL Cup. Hang on a second. City are top of the Premier League and have won 10 of their opening 16 matches under a new manager who is working to implement his very specific football philosophy. While all crises are relative, maybe, just maybe, we should take a step back before making any definitive conclusions on Guardiola's management. The same should go for his counterparts, too.

Unsurprisingly, Guardiola was not exactly panicking in the wake of Wednesday's 1-0 loss to Manchester United, even though he has gone six games without a win for the first time in his managerial career. In three of those matches, City have failed to find the back of the net -- heck, they didn't even have a shot on target at Old Trafford. The solution to this problem, and therefore their form, is for someone to be clinical in front of goal. They have the ideal player to do that in Sergio Aguero, but the Argentina international has not scored in a month. City need the scintillating Aguero from the start of the season, when he scored 11 goals in six appearances, for Saturday's trip to West Brom. Crisis or no crisis, City require a pick-me-up ahead of Tuesday's Champions League match at home to Barcelona. Gulp.

Jose Mourinho needs a chance to heal Man United's ills

As much as Manchester United boss Jose Mourinho perhaps wouldn't like to hear it, he is indeed in the same boat as Guardiola. He, like Pep, needs time to do his very different thing at Old Trafford. There was an image of exhausted relief on the face of Mourinho after his side's victory over their rivals. Possibly not so much because United had reached the quarterfinals but rather that it allowed Mourinho to soothe some of the wounds inflicted by the 4-0 loss at Chelsea. This was a performance far removed from that defensive abomination. This was disciplined and committed. This was more like a Mourinho team. There is still a helluva lot of work to be done at United -- so let one of the game's most successful bosses do it. United, only six points off the top remember, host Burnley on Saturday.

i


Sunderland must seize on any Arsenal complacency

Watching Sunderland has been painful viewing so far. Sure, the football has incited grimaces, but it's the agony befalling manager David Moyes that really stings. He looks, on his return to the Premier League following a year at Real Sociedad, deflated and defeated. Rooted to the bottom of the table and five points from safety after nine games played, there has been little evidence that the Black Cats' nine-year stay in the top flight is not going to come to an end -- their nine lives look to be up. Saturday's lunchtime meeting with Arsenal at the Stadium of Light looks like a particularly uninviting fixture give them circumstances. But if any side is capable of gifting hopeless Sunderland their first league win of the season it is surely the Gunners, who predictably followed a 6-0 win with a goalless draw last weekend.

Ronald Koeman has work to do at fragile Everton

Everton are a respectable sixth in the table, but their form is stuttering. Without a win in their last four Premier League games, the late 2-1 loss to Burnley last time out confirmed the Ronald Koeman effect is still very much in its infancy at Everton. With the Toffees wavering, their weekend opponents, West Ham, are rising after a tough start to the season. Back-to-back league victories, followed by disposing of Chelsea in the League Cup on Wednesday, have relieved mounting pressure on manager Slaven Bilic. Koeman led his previous side Southampton to sixth last term, a point above Bilic's West Ham. That sort of finish is exactly why the Dutchman was brought to Goodison Park in the summer. It's up to him to transfer that mentality to a team still showing signs of their fragility under ex-boss Roberto Martinez.

Mike Phelan looks to have an impossible job at Hull

Since finally being appointed full-time Hull City manager, Mike Phelan's side have conceded eight and scored once in the subsequent two Premier League fixtures. In fact, Hull have not won in the top flight since the second match of the season on Aug. 20 which unsurprisingly sees them in the relegation zone. As expected going into 2016-17, the Tigers are in for a testing campaign. The news gets worse for Hull, too, with key midfielder Robert Snodgrass ruled out for a month with an ankle injury. A trip to a Watford side who have settled well under new manager Walter Mazzarri is probably not what the doctor ordered for Phelan. Remarkably, we're in a position where his reign at Hull looks precarious just two weeks after pen was put to paper, despite the club being about where you'd expect them to be considering the resources available.
 

THE_CHANSTER

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Agree that Guardiola needs time to adjust to life in the PL but no such excuses for Mourinho who has had plenty of PL experience with Chelsea.
With his Man Utd squad, they should be challenging for the title and not in languishing in 7th place. But at least they'll win today against Burnley.

As for Sunderland, time is running out for Moyes. Arsenal might just give them a thrashing this evening. :biggrin:
 

jw5

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As for Sunderland, time is running out for Moyes. Arsenal might just give them a thrashing this evening. :biggrin:

One hour gone, only 0-1. Still got chance. :biggrin:

Update: One hour and five minutes gone, now 1-1. More chance. :biggrin::biggrin:

Latest Update: One hour and ten minutes gone, now 1-2. Back to small chance. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
 
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THE_CHANSTER

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When a team like Man Utd cannot beat minnows like Burnley, you know Mourinho has a problem.
Depressing times if you're a Red Devils supporter.
 

THE_CHANSTER

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It's shaping up to be a tight race for the PL this season. Looking right now like a three horse race between Man City, Arsenal and Liverpool.
 

jw5

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Everton beat West Ham 2-0

i


Romelu Lukaku and Ross Barkley's second-half goals gave Everton victory. Lukaku's effort was his ninth goal in nine games against West Ham, while Barkley netted for the first time since August.
 

jw5

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Arsenal and Liverpool show title mettle; Mourinho's misery continues

HEROES

Sunderland away is precisely the sort of game that has caused Arsenal problems in the past: Overwhelming dominance, a single-goal lead and then, out of nowhere, an equaliser and subsequent revival from their beleaguered opponents. But not this season's Arsenal. This season's Arsenal simply took a breath, made a change and then roared through the gears. Thirteen minutes after Jermain Defoe's equaliser, the Gunners were 4-1 up and cruising. It is far too early for predictions, but that's 14 games unbeaten now. They are looking good.

Things weren't looking good for Pep Guardiola. Six games without a win had some people questioning the credentials of the Manchester City manager. Indeed, the prospect of a trip to Tony Pulis' uncompromising West Bromwich Albion brought feverish suggestions that City might go winless in seven, a run that would be the worst of Guardiola's career. It didn't really turn out like that, though: City never looked troubled by the Baggies, won the game inside the first half hour and finished with a flourish. The crisis, such as it was, is over.

There was a time when Liverpool could grind their way to titles. They were brilliant, of course, but they were also clever, disciplined and happy to waste time and bore neutrals with endless back passes if it meant three points. But if Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool ever win the title it is unlikely that anyone will be able to make similar criticisms. They are as clever and disciplined as a labrador chasing a cat around a sausage factory; they are an explosion of sound and vision, a great big force of destruction. They might not win the title, but you'll never call them boring.

With a tight defence and efficient attack, Antonio Conte's Chelsea are looking pretty slick. Sunday's 2-0 victory over Southampton was their fourth consecutive league win and their fourth consecutive clean sheet. The back three looks watertight, though where John Terry fits in is anyone's guess, and the attacking players are starting to fire up. Diego Costa has only failed to score in three league games out of 10 this season, while the improvement of Eden Hazard continues apace. If they keep this up, they might force themselves into the title conversation.

After seven league games without a win, Middlesbrough burst into life with an impressive and fully deserved victory over in-form Bournemouth. Aitor Karanka's side have looked a little sluggish and flat for most of the season, but they sparked into life on Saturday, combining the pace and spontaneity of Adama Traore with the aerial supremacy of Alvaro Negredo and the genius of a confident Gaston Ramierez. They needed this win, not least because it represented their first home points since the opening day of the season. Now they must build on it.

VILLAINS

i


Have we advanced directly to Jose Mourinho's third season in charge of Man United? All the signs are there: The team is underperforming, discontented players are briefing newspapers and Mourinho's personal discipline has evaporated. Already on an FA charge for discussing the referee before the game with Liverpool, he is set for another one after being sent to the stands vs. Burnley. Even those of us who felt a Mourinho-Man United marriage would eventually end in tears expected an initial period of success. But United are already eight points adrift of the top.

Sunderland are already seven points adrift of safety and frankly, it's incredible they've kept the gap so tight. David Moyes is their sixth "permanent" manager in the five years since Steve Bruce was sacked and it's clear that frenzied transition has been a major factor in their perpetual awfulness. Moyes' is an unenviable task and anyone with any patience and understanding would accept that 10 games is not nearly long enough. But there are no positives here, there are no signs that a turnaround is imminent and there is no hope. Even blind faith is ebbing away.

This column has, on occasion, rallied to the defence of Crystal Palace manager Alan Pardew. If he wants to celebrate a goal in a cup final with a dance, that's down to him. Football is supposed to be fun, after all. But he was out of order to suggest that Andre Marriner should have been stripped of the Palace vs. Liverpool game because he gave a penalty against Pardew's side last season. Managers can't pick and choose their favourites and it sets a dangerous precedent to start using past displays to dictate deployment. Less shade, more shapes, please.

It can't have been fun watching West Brom this weekend. When the fans start singing "We've got the ball!" to celebrate a brief period of possession, you know there are problems in the morale department; that said the seamless switch to "We've lost the ball!" when the inevitable happened was impressive. But what's the long-term plan? Tony Pulis has steadied the ship and he's giving time to youngsters but the Baggies must look forward. Fans need to know that better times -- and a transfer kitty -- are on their way. Gallows humour has a limited life span.

It's six straight defeats for Hull City and just one point from a possible 24. All of a sudden, those apocalyptic preseason predictions are beginning to ring true. You can't blame Mike Phelan for striving to find a way of playing that won't end in catastrophic defeat, but you do wonder if perhaps he's making too many changes. Sam Clucas was excellent in defensive midfield in August, but looked lost as a left wingback at Watford. Equally, Hull's quick passing game was aided by the use of Jake Livermore as an emergency defender, but he's now back in midfield.
 
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