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Huat Ah@! US & EU auto makers all dying.

flkyflky

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think Japs & Koreans also fuck spider liao. :eek:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122704494297638531.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

EU Considers Aid for Auto Makers

European officials began lining up behind a European Union-wide aid program for its auto industry, though some officials expressed concerns about breaking EU rules on competition and state aid.

German Vice Chancellor and Foreign Minister Frank Walter Steinmeier and Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker, who chairs meetings of finance ministers from the euro zone, said in a joint interview with German tabloid Bild published Tuesday that a pan-European response was needed.

France is also considering providing help for the auto industry with its EU partners and the European Investment Bank, French government spokesman Luc Chatel said.

But the EU's competition commissioner, Neelie Kroes, said Tuesday that the European Commission, the EU's executive arm, wants to make sure that national measures taken by car-producing countries don't put some car makers at an advantage.

The European Commission and the European Investment Bank are already working on a financial-aid package for auto makers to develop more environmentally friendly cars. The package is due to be presented at the next meeting of EU finance ministers, on Dec. 1.

Ms. Kroes warned that European governments' massive bailouts of the financial sector should be considered exceptional. "You can't compare the car industry with the financial sector -- it's different," Ms. Kroes said. "The financial sector is the blood circulation of the whole economy; if your financial system is not working anymore, it is over," she said.

The German government has held talks this week about possible liquidity guarantees of more than €1 billion ($1.27 billion) for car maker Opel, a European unit of General Motors Corp. Chancellor Angela Merkel said Monday that a final decision would be taken in late December.

Ms. Kroes said Tuesday that EU authorities are in contact with Berlin over the German government's possible aid for Opel. She added that it is too soon to say how the EU would react to any aid plan that emerges.

French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde said Monday that aid to the industry should be considered on a national and Europe-wide basis, after auto makers, including Renault SA, were reportedly planning heavy production cuts because of falling demand.

Rescue efforts for European car makers come as the U.S. is debating $25 billion in aid for its Big Three auto makers, GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC.

National approaches won't be sufficient in dealing with the situation, Mr. Juncker said. "Real solutions can only take place on a European level," he told Tuesday's Bild newspaper. "If the U.S. government rescues Ford, GM and Chrysler from a bankruptcy with billions of dollars, then we can't simply watch and leave producers in Europe alone."

German government adviser and economist Peter Bofinger said Germany should nationalize Opel and sell it in better times. That would ensure that aid for Opel remains an isolated case, rather than triggering requests for aid by other German car makers, Mr. Bofinger told German newspaper Münchner Merkur. So far, however, German policy makers haven't proposed such a step.

Write to Gabriele Parussini at [email protected] and Andrea Thomas at [email protected]
 

The_Latest_H

Alfrescian
Loyal
If there's one significant area where the famed US creativity has failed, its in their car industry. For decades, they have insisted that their cars- or rather their SUVs and trucks- didn't need to be fuel efficient.

They even resort to bribes and lobbying to forcibly persuade Senators and House members not to implement high mileage on their vehicles. And even as Japanese and Korean cars took over the market share, they continued to protest that these hybrid or smaller cars were not "American" enough.

And now they are in deep shit, and their employees are at risk of losing what was supposed to be a life-long, iron rice bowl job, and with that, their pensions, and their employer-based medical healthcare coverage.

This is one industry which the leaders had absolutely no foresight, no imagination, and worse still had degraded competitors just because they produce way more smaller, higher mileage vehicles than SUVs. Maybe some creative techies might wanna move to these companies- if they are rescued with conditions attached- and push these companies to be more creative and open to more ideas from the world?
 

tommyh

Alfrescian
Loyal
US is focused on short term gains. That is why we see the huge growth of high tech where companies can go from $0 to $10B in market cap in 5 years.

Detroit was under the same pressure. So how do you increase margins - get an pickup truck that sells for $15K, slap on tons of accessories, extra set of doors and sell it as an SUV for $35K. The margins are huge ($10K to $15K a vehicle) since the development cost is already there (pickup truck) - Americans could no get enough of it. On the other Japs were selling Toyota Camrys at $20K - at most $3K margin per car.

So what is better $15K margin or $3K margin.




If there's one significant area where the famed US creativity has failed, its in their car industry. For decades, they have insisted that their cars- or rather their SUVs and trucks- didn't need to be fuel efficient.

They even resort to bribes and lobbying to forcibly persuade Senators and House members not to implement high mileage on their vehicles. And even as Japanese and Korean cars took over the market share, they continued to protest that these hybrid or smaller cars were not "American" enough.

And now they are in deep shit, and their employees are at risk of losing what was supposed to be a life-long, iron rice bowl job, and with that, their pensions, and their employer-based medical healthcare coverage.

This is one industry which the leaders had absolutely no foresight, no imagination, and worse still had degraded competitors just because they produce way more smaller, higher mileage vehicles than SUVs. Maybe some creative techies might wanna move to these companies- if they are rescued with conditions attached- and push these companies to be more creative and open to more ideas from the world?
 

flkyflky

Alfrescian
Loyal
But how come European car makers also have to die?

With fuel and metals going so high cost, with widespread recession on going. It is hard to think that only US & EU car makers are dying. I think Koreans & Japs will not do very well. Plus India & PRC & many other 3rd world start to make cars to compete with Japs & Koreans. These 3rd world makers won't compete with EU makers like Mercedes and BMW and Alfa. But will compete against e.g. Daewo or Kia or Hyundai. When economy goes down and fuel cost goes up, people downgrade to cheaper cars.

Right?
 

The_Latest_H

Alfrescian
Loyal
US is focused on short term gains. That is why we see the huge growth of high tech where companies can go from $0 to $10B in market cap in 5 years.

Detroit was under the same pressure. So how do you increase margins - get an pickup truck that sells for $15K, slap on tons of accessories, extra set of doors and sell it as an SUV for $35K. The margins are huge ($10K to $15K a vehicle) since the development cost is already there (pickup truck) - Americans could no get enough of it. On the other Japs were selling Toyota Camrys at $20K - at most $3K margin per car.

So what is better $15K margin or $3K margin.

The problem is that the demand deeply depends on American's taste for pick-ups, trucks, SUVs the like. I mean, with a society that has more immigrant citizens by the year, its inevitable that a majority probably wouldn't go for the traditional American pick-up.

Instead a Korean-American family might go for a Toyota or Kia, knowing something familiar that is part of their culture, and heritage.

And besides selling volume is even more important when it comes to the mass market. For the high-end market, expensive cars($100k and above) that are made to be sold can be sold in a lower rate than mass-market cars that are at most $20k. So if you sell more Toyotas than big BMW limos, you tend to make more money faster.

That's how Toyota made its money. Produce more smaller cars, make them fuel efficient and affordable, market them as such, and sell them at a faster rate than Ford, GM, Chrysler and the others. And all of these means that the entire company had to be more creative than their rivals, so as to stay ahead of the curve.
 

theblackhole

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
this world is spiralling down to a complete meltdown. if you are still in the denial mode and if you still blame others and calling others ingrates...you will pay back big time....if you still hold on to your high salaries talking from your ivory towers...pay back time is just around the corner....heaven is fair....we eventually are all equal in sickness, in old age, in pain, in agony, in anguish and of course ultimately in death...

so why make others' lives miserable and make yours in high heaven? death is the leveller...so beware and be forewarned.
 

The_Latest_H

Alfrescian
Loyal
Today's paper said they should fly their private jets to Washington

Well, they actually flew their Gulfstreams to D.C instead of using commercial. I repeat, using their own respective US$36m private jet to go to D.C to beg for taxpayers money.

If they do that, I hope Obama sets his first condition to them as this: sell the jets first and then, sack yourselves on the spot. There's no way they should use taxpayers money if part of the money is gonna be used(under admin costs) to maintain their US$36m Gulfstream jets.
 

Uncle2

Alfrescian
Loyal
Go check on internet what problems are plaguing the auto makers then you will understand why lawmakers in US refused to bail them out.... They are simply running on a business model which cannoe be sustained on a long run.

Do you know how much money an average auto maker, welder, assembly man gets each month. It ranges from US$25 to $80 per hour. Meaning that for 8 hours a day, I can earn about US$15,000 by working on a five day week in a Detroit plant. And the obscene amount of benefits they received.

What about those who have retired - they get a big fat pay cheque each month resting and stroking their balls at home watching NBA!

They are so cost ineffective that they loses money for every car they manufacture.... how to survive? & Still got the cheek to ask for $25 billion. Shake head.
 

Reddog

Alfrescian
Loyal
But how come European car makers also have to die?

With fuel and metals going so high cost, with widespread recession on going. It is hard to think that only US & EU car makers are dying. I think Koreans & Japs will not do very well. Plus India & PRC & many other 3rd world start to make cars to compete with Japs & Koreans. These 3rd world makers won't compete with EU makers like Mercedes and BMW and Alfa. But will compete against e.g. Daewo or Kia or Hyundai. When economy goes down and fuel cost goes up, people downgrade to cheaper cars.

Right?

Not all EU auto makers are in trouble. VOLVO is doing well and growing ........ Chinese owned; that's why.
 

congo9

Alfrescian
Loyal
Well, they actually flew their Gulfstreams to D.C instead of using commercial. I repeat, using their own respective US$36m private jet to go to D.C to beg for taxpayers money.

If they do that, I hope Obama sets his first condition to them as this: sell the jets first and then, sack yourselves on the spot. There's no way they should use taxpayers money if part of the money is gonna be used(under admin costs) to maintain their US$36m Gulfstream jets.

It is never about GULF stream jet. Rich people need time to make money. Time is a precious commodity to them, unlike lower cast peasant. So that why they flew in in Gulf steam jet. It about time, even they are to sell the Gulf stream, it is not going to help things. It is not like selling my jet plane, i can rescue the whole company.

Real world don't work like that.
 
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