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Thread: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by Forvendet View Post
    You all sound sourgrapes pickled in jealousy, trying to pass jealousy off as call for justice. Whatever the vocation, NS served is NS served. How many can qualify as medical research scientist? I didn't qualify for anything like that but was lucky enough to do NS mostly sitting in a lockup and updating the whiteboard when accuseds were brought in and out. I don't know why I was chosen for that. I didn't mind going army anyway. I'm no whitehorse, just a commoner. And many commoners got such easy (but boring) jobs in NS too. And many whitehorses got shitty jobs too, e.g. LHL son.
    It has nothing to do with "jealousy". At best, it has everything to do with fairness. At worse, it has everything to do with the possible and unlawful subversion of a system that was intended, designed and repeatedly proclaimed - even by Tony Tan himself - to be fair to one and all.


    ******************

    About those white horses.
    147th Prostitute Press
    21 November 2003

    WHITE horse, the classification to identify sons of influential Singaporeans enlisting for national service, is an unwelcome intrusion on the military scene. In the light of recent incidents involving the navy and NSmen, with fatalities recorded, there will be heightened sensitivity about the treatment young adults receive in the Singapore Armed Forces. It was good that Minister of State for Defence Cedric Foo sought to clear the air. Up till now, the label of white horse had been shrouded in mystique and murmurs. While disclosure of the classification's existence - long an open secret, though never officially admitted - came as no surprise, it was news to most that the system had been discontinued since 2000. There were also palpable gasps of disbelief that, contrary to common belief, the classification was not meant to single out the privileged for dispensation from tough training.

    The SAF was said to have introduced it as part of its monitoring system in the late 1970s, when most NSmen favoured clerical and other 'soft' positions.

    Marking out those from prominent families allowed the SAF to ensure they did not use their connections to gain exemption from NS, or downgrade their medical classification. In effect, being classified a white horse was a bane rather than a blessing. Those declared medically unfit by a doctor had to get confirmation of such from the commanding officer of the medical classification centre, an extra step not required of those who were not white horses. Even with the officer's approval, white horses were denied comfortable office jobs in Mindef but were sent down to ground units. The fit ones, meanwhile, were made to rough it out in combat positions.

    While welcome, these explanations may have failed to calm the growing indignation surrounding the controversial classification. Many NSmen, past and present, have insisted they had seen special treatment being given to white horses and their platoon mates. They were given more canteen breaks, better food and later wake-up hours, it was said. Of that, Mr Foo noted that if the label had sounded an alert to camp commanders and officers to take extra care of the sons of so and so, it was an unintended consequence. 'Like anywhere in society,' he allowed, 'there will be some people who are more prone to bootlicking, but let me say categorically that it is not the policy in the SAF'. But his suggestion that sons of the great and good could indeed be granted preferential treatment if such a classification had not existed, itself calls into question the ability of the SAF to treat all enlistees equally, regardless of parentage and family circumstances. Perhaps, the white horse file had to be kept open as a checking device in SAF's formative years, when the military was still building up its professionalism, refining its personnel and training systems, and carving out a reputation for turning out hardy, employable young men.

    But any sort of labelling - official or not - has no place in the well-oiled outfit that the SAF has become. Among its many strengths, it prides itself on its egalitarian tradition. Indeed, if such a system were applied to other sectors - say, preferential treatment given to ministers' offspring in the civil service as a birth right - there would be a huge hue and cry. And so there should be if special dispensation exists in a citizen's army, where the founding principle is equal treatment for all - regardless of language, race, religion or the name of the father.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorEvil View Post
    I tried to post this info but somehow it didn't appear.

    Patrick Tan Boon Ooi is not a registered doctor with the Singapore Medical Council. He does not have an MCR no. which all registered doctors have. Therefore, he cannot practise medicine legally in Singapore. That is why he never went through MOCC. Only registered Singapore doctors can become SAF MOs.
    Whether he is or not is a separate issue. One of the key issue, amongst several, is that Patrick Tan should have returned to continue from where he left of, i.e. the remaining 6 months of the Senior Term in OCS or in MOCC if he was a qualified doctor at that time.

    The only reason I can think of is that after all those years studying, he suddenly lost the use of his limbs and got himself downgraded. I believe his limbs are all in good working condition though. Good enough to hold test tubes and to turn on and off the air conditioner in his DMERI office.

    Even if that is the case, the fact is that he should not, as Cedric Foo declared in Parliament, been given "cushy office jobs in Mindef" and had to be "sent down to the ground units instead".

    The denigrating but thoroughly deserved label of Phoney Tan introduced by a forummer, will stick onto Tony Tan if he and his son continue to vomit out irrelevant, peripheral and evasive answers to the questions being asked.


    *********************

    Minister tells more about 'white horses'.
    147th Prostitute Press
    19 November 2003


    PEOPLE in Internet chatrooms did not believe him, nor did some writers to The Straits Times Forum page.

    They argued that contrary to what Minister of State (Defence) Cedric Foo told Parliament last week, that 'white horses' did not get special treatment during national service, the opposite was true.

    Yesterday, the minister gathered reporters at the Defence Ministry headquarters in Gombak Drive to elaborate further on who the 'white horses' were and what sort of treatment they were given.

    He revealed that the list included sons of current and former Members of Parliament and Nominated MPs, senior officials - lieutenant-colonels upwards, deputy assistant commissioners in the Police and Civil Defence and civil servants from Superscale Grade H onwards - and even doctors.

    Also included were sons of 'a very big group' of others who earned at least $9,500 a month, he said.

    Knowing who these influential people were allowed the Singapore Armed Forces to prevent them from abusing the system.

    This means those classified by a doctor as medically unfit had to also get the nod from the commanding officer of the medical classification centre, an extra step not required of non-white horse servicemen.

    Even with the officer's approval, cushy office jobs in Mindef were out for these full-time servicemen, who had to be sent down to the ground units instead, he said.

    The fit ones would also have to rough it out in combat positions on the ground, as part of the checks introduced in the late 1970s when many boys preferred clerical and other 'softer' positions.


    But if the system was working so well, why did the SAF abandon it three years ago?

    For one, Mr Foo said, today's servicemen aim higher because they know employers value those who have been officers or section commanders.

    Another reason is that Singaporeans have come to accept that the SAF treats its servicemen fairly, so there was no need to spend the money now on monitoring white horses, he said, without saying how much it had cost.

    He told reporters he had wanted to expand on his reply to Non-Constituency MP Steve Chia in Parliament but did not get the chance as there were no follow-up questions.

    When contacted, Mr Chia said it was difficult for some Singaporeans to believe that white horses were treated no differently from others.

    Some Singaporeans have said they had witnessed special treatment for white horses and their platoon mates, who would get more frequent canteen breaks, better food and later wake-up hours.

    They are wrong, said Mr Foo. 'You see something as favouritism which may not be the case, and the white horse system was to address such possible misperception.'

    To those who 'nitpick about how many canteen breaks one platoon gets', he said the platoon could have earned the rewards because of the hard work of its men.

    Instructors could also be at fault, he said. 'Like anywhere in society, there will be some people who are more prone to bootlicking, but let me say categorically that it is not the policy in the SAF.'

    He stood by his statement that there was no special treatment, and no one had claimed that white horses had used their influence to get exempted from NS or to downgrade their medical classification.

    'If you hear of a case like that, please let me know,' he said.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Patrick Tan may have received preferential treatment but his intentions were honorable. He took pride in performing his NS liabilities and contributed towards the betterment of Singapore.

    I, on the other hand, did nothing but waste taxpayer money while serving. I grabbed every opportunity to escape any hardship and responsibility. I may have completed my 2˝ yr stint but it was done with the minimum of effort while drawing a whopping salary for sitting around, playing squash, drinking in the mess and having a ball of a time. Most white horses had to do far more work.


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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    He has a MD and thus can practice if he wants to. All he needs to do is register. After getting his MD he went on to do his PHD and seems to have chosen to be a researcher and scientist. If he wanted, he could have gone for MOCC. He obviously chose not to. He seem to prefer the air-conditioned Lab. Imagine he served his 2 years of NS as Chief Scientist in DSO and Principal Investigator at the National Cancer Centre and presumably had nice office with support staff while holding the nominal rank of 3rd Sgt. Mind you the titles are in his CV and the dates are there as well. So it has nothing do with my usual creative imagination. By the way during this period of immense dedication fighting diseases on behalf of NS man, his father was Minister of Defence and DPM. He wore civvies, drove a nice car, worked office hours and was no different to any other member of the workforce. When he achieved ROD, he continued in those roles. Probably the first Singaporean to have been accepted for the 7 months NS programme under the "My Father is the Minister of Defence" scheme.
    Hahha, where can i apply for this scheme? LOL

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Not unless yr father is a PAP cadre, CEC member, and Defence Minister. You must also have Presidential material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    Hahha, where can i apply for this scheme? LOL

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    TT now has 2 choices:

    1. stand down

    2. bash thru to win the EP by brute force and the rest of S'pore wake up with a bitter after taste.

    He still has to answer. The office of President will forever be tarred and tainted.
    Last edited by kingrant; 31-07-2011 at 12:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    After graduating from Stanford, I returned to Singapore in 2000 ready to complete my National Service in whatever post I was assigned. I knew that I had this obligation to complete. My father had since become Minister of Defence, but if anything that made it all the more important to carry out my duty.


    At that time, melioidosis (also known as “soil disease”) was a serious concern to MINDEF as it had been affecting soldiers in the field and is a potential bio-terrorism threat (see below for more details). I was attached to what is now the Defence Medical and Environmental Research Institute (DMERI, then called DMRI) to research Burkholderia pseudomallei, the bacterium that causes melioidosis. This research involved an organism called C. elegans, which had been the subject of my PhD thesis. I also led a team to establish one of the first DNA microarray facilities in Singapore, allowing us to analyze melioidosis genetic variation with unprecedented speed, resolution, and scale.

    [COLOR="#0000FF"]It seems to me that here in above lies the problem with his statement. U don't come back to do NS in whatever post you are assigned. There is only one post that you can possibly be assigned to i.e. MOCC. Or if u don't desire that, than the second term of OCS. There is no other option for anyone else. The fact that he even thinks he has an option is very telling. He basically dropped out of OCS after the junior term, and hence he is not an officer. However, to be a SGT, he must go to SAFINCOS at that time. Many people who drop out of OCS after the first term spend another 3 months in SAFINCO Paya Lebar camp, than graduate as a corporal first. I know of no other person that can attain the rank of 3rd Sgt. without completing SAFINCOS.

    He than mentioned that he was assigned to a non SAF unit that was doing research in coincidentally, the field of research if his Phd Thesis. What a coincidence, and good fortune. What about those other scholars who disrupted and returned with engineering, business, architect, etc,. degrees? DO they get assigned to DSTA, MINDEF procurement, etc. to practice their training? No, they have to waste 2 years in NS losing touch with what they were trained in uni for. So, why is he so acceptional?

    I believe my theory to be the truth:

    [B][B]That he did his thesis in his chosen field, the research of meliodosis. He came home and ask his Dad how to avoid serving the rest of NS, and immediately carry on with his research. His DAD suggested that DMERI will set up a research lab for him to continue his melidosis research and put him in there to run it. They will come up with a cover story that melidosis was a potential bio weapon and that our soldiers were dropping like flies, in order to justify the cost of it. As have been shown elsewhere, melidosis is hardly the thread that he claims it is. In fact, our NSmen contracting VD from protitutes in ROC is a bigger threat and accounts for more casualties than melidosis ever will. Maybe he should have specialized in sphylis instead.
    Last edited by Papsmearer; 31-07-2011 at 08:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    The normal maximum age for admission to OCS is 28 if I remember correctly. The age limit for MOCC may be higher though. That is also the maximum age for BMT and SISPEC. This is why people who take up citizenship after the age of 27 do not normally get conscripted (NS call up is actually at the discretion of the Armed Forces Council). Patrick Tan went back to serve NS at the age of 31, so there is no way he would have been asked to join OCS. Given his age when he re-enlisted, it would have been unlikely that he would be assigned to a combat vocation.

    You guys are missing the point. The anomaly here is the 12-year deferment that he got, not the fact that he siam-ed MOCC/OCS or any combat vocation, which is actually in accordance with established policies. Being assigned to DSO is also not uncommon for disruptees. You guys should focus on why on earth he was give a 12-year deferment and why he was allowed to do a MD-PhD program despite the known length of the program. This is like allowing our NUS medical disruptees to do their specialization before going back to SAF, which is of course never allowed unless the MO is a sign-on.
    Last edited by DoctorEvil; 31-07-2011 at 01:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    He has a MD and thus can practice if he wants to. All he needs to do is register. After getting his MD he went on to do his PHD and seems to have chosen to be a researcher and scientist. If he wanted, he could have gone for MOCC. He obviously chose not to. He seem to prefer the air-conditioned Lab. Imagine he served his 2 years of NS as Chief Scientist in DSO and Principal Investigator at the National Cancer Centre and presumably had nice office with support staff while holding the nominal rank of 3rd Sgt. Mind you the titles are in his CV and the dates are there as well. So it has nothing do with my usual creative imagination. By the way during this period of immense dedication fighting diseases on behalf of NS man, his father was Minister of Defence and DPM. He wore civvies, drove a nice car, worked office hours and was no different to any other member of the workforce. When he achieved ROD, he continued in those roles. Probably the first Singaporean to have been accepted for the 7 months NS programme under the "My Father is the Minister of Defence" scheme.
    The plot thickens. Prior to 2003, Stanford University School of Medicine was not on MOH's schedule of approved medicals schools. This explains why he did not even bother to do his residency or housemanship. His Stanford MD was not recognized by MOH.

    See: http://singapore.usembassy.gov/uploa...tration_03.pdf

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by Leongsam View Post
    Patrick Tan may have received preferential treatment but his intentions were honorable. He took pride in performing his NS liabilities and contributed towards the betterment of Singapore.

    I, on the other hand, did nothing but waste taxpayer money while serving. I grabbed every opportunity to escape any hardship and responsibility. I may have completed my 2˝ yr stint but it was done with the minimum of effort while drawing a whopping salary for sitting around, playing squash, drinking in the mess and having a ball of a time. Most white horses had to do far more work.
    Dearest Sam, well fair enough and you have my admiration for admitting your untoward ways during your NS.

    The key difference here is while the person they are talking about has a father who is running for president and supposingly had received special treatment, and you, with all due respect, with biggest achievement till date is to run a highly successful porn website (as rumour has it).

    There may be tons and tons of people having better lifes, but that is not going to change the fact that Dr Patrick Tan special treatment may have much to owe to his father's appointment. This wont go down well with people voting for his father. This smearing old trick is nothing new, and the master of this skill has ruled this island for the last 40 years.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorEvil View Post
    The normal maximum age for admission to OCS is 28 if I remember correctly. The age limit for MOCC may be higher though. That is also the maximum age for BMT and SISPEC. This is why people who take up citizenship after the age of 27 do not normally get conscripted (NS call up is actually at the discretion of the Armed Forces Council). Patrick Tan went back to serve NS at the age of 31, so there is no way he would have been asked to join OCS. Given his age when he re-enlisted, it would have been unlikely that he would be assigned to a combat vocation.

    You guys are missing the point. The anomaly here is the 12-year deferment that he got, not the fact that he siam-ed MOCC/OCS or any combat vocation, which is actually in accordance with established policies. Being assigned to DSO is also not uncommon for disruptees. You guys should focus on why on earth he was give a 12-year deferment and why he was allowed to do a MD-PhD program despite the known length of the program. This is like allowing our NUS medical disruptees to do their specialization before going back to SAF, which is of course never allowed unless the MO is a sign-on.
    There is nothing in the Enlistment Act that precludes those of a certain age from doing BMT, SISPEC or OCS. That is why NSmen remain in their combat vocations even after passing the age of 31. Age has never been legislated as a factor for such courses and that is logical as the guiding principle with respect to enlistment or deferment is that you start at age 18. And if you defer, you are expected to rejoin from where you left of.

    That he evaded or was allowed to evade the later part of OCS (even as he was granted deferment based on the fact that he showed potential to be an officer) and was never deployed "on the ground" is, like his unusually and suspiciously lengthy deferment, a very valid point. This is because many parents and their sons, especially in the early years of NS, would do anything to not have their precious boy-boy in the field and in the sun. The clerical position or any position away from the sun and rain and the physical rigours of training was therefore a prized objective amongst such parents and for their precious boys-boys.

    Was Tony Tan such a parent and was his son such a boy-boy? Best for them to clear the air without resorting to any further fudgings and smokescreens.
    Last edited by PTADER; 31-07-2011 at 02:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by kingrant View Post
    Hey, Scro, that calls for inclusion into yr Hall of Fame for Freedom fighters. Yo! Call it My Father's Army Scholarship Scheme!
    Corrected for you.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Sam, Sam,

    Excuses, excuses. What you have said is just rationalisation and justification. In any court of law, it may be used as mitigation against a deterrent heavy sentence, but cannot be used as a defence.

    We pride ourselves as a country which respect the rule of law, social justice and equal opportunity. Dr Tony Tan, as a Presidential candidate, likely to be the next President, you set such poor example and still expect citizens to respect you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leongsam View Post
    Patrick Tan may have received preferential treatment but his intentions were honorable. He took pride in performing his NS liabilities and contributed towards the betterment of Singapore.

    I, on the other hand, did nothing but waste taxpayer money while serving. I grabbed every opportunity to escape any hardship and responsibility. I may have completed my 2˝ yr stint but it was done with the minimum of effort while drawing a whopping salary for sitting around, playing squash, drinking in the mess and having a ball of a time. Most white horses had to do far more work.
    Last edited by kingrant; 31-07-2011 at 03:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by Leongsam View Post
    Patrick Tan may have received preferential treatment but his intentions were honorable. He took pride in performing his NS liabilities and contributed towards the betterment of Singapore.

    I, on the other hand, did nothing but waste taxpayer money while serving. I grabbed every opportunity to escape any hardship and responsibility. I may have completed my 2˝ yr stint but it was done with the minimum of effort while drawing a whopping salary for sitting around, playing squash, drinking in the mess and having a ball of a time. Most white horses had to do far more work.
    Since when can an NS Man serving full-time receive a whopping salary? How much can one earn being a recruit. NCO and officer? Maximum is less than $1k a month before ROD for a Lieutenant.
    Last edited by Windsor; 31-07-2011 at 03:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by PTADER View Post
    There is nothing in the Enlistment Act that precludes those of a certain age from doing BMT, SISPEC or OCS. That is why NSmen remain in their combat vocations even after passing the age of 31. Age has never been legislated as a factor for such courses and that is logical as the guiding principle with respect to enlistment or deferment is that you start at age 18. And if you defer, you are expected to rejoin from where you left of.

    That he evaded or was allowed to evade the later part of OCS (even as he was granted deferment based on the fact that he showed potential to be an officer) and was never deployed "on the ground" is, like his unusually and suspiciously lengthy deferment, a very valid point. This is because many parents and their sons, especially in the early years of NS, would do anything to not have their precious boy-boy in the field and in the sun. The clerical position or any position away from the sun and rain and the physical rigours of training was therefore a prized objective amongst such parents and for their precious boys-boys.

    Was Tony Tan such a parent and was his son such a boy-boy? Best for them to clear the air without resorting to any further fudgings and smokescreens.
    Of course there is nothing in the Enlistment Act which says you cannot enlist if you are over 27 but it is a Mindef policy that is often repeated to people who are considering taking up Singapore citizenship. As long as you're 28 and above, they do not as a policy call people up because these people are too old to go through BMT, Sispec or OCS. BMT, Sispec and OCS are more siong than NS in general. The physical demands on a reservist are more relaxed than those on a trainee.

    Also, many specs and officers are deployed to office jobs once they complete their training. For example, after I came back from my disruption, I was assigned to Mindef in Gombak to an office job doing audio-visual editing work although I was PES A and had been an infantry spec before I disrupted. My reservist is however a lot more siong because I have to be an infantry spec again.
    Last edited by DoctorEvil; 31-07-2011 at 03:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor View Post
    Since when can an NS Man serving full-time receive a whopping salary? How much can one earn being a recruit. NCO and officer? Maximum is less than $1k a month before ROD for a Lieutenant.
    I was paid $780 as a junior cadet, $890 as a senior cadet and close to $1k as a 2LT. Those were the good old days when they paid an "education allowance" to those with a tertiary qualification.


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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Hell, if he could get 12 years deferment and complete his NS in a private company like DSO what next, a gifted minister's son with economics and financial scholarship complete his NS in OCBC?

    This shit is not a simple matter especially for us who completed our obligations with mud on our faces. We have the right and demand our questions to be satisfactorily answered. The public servants are accountable to us all.
    Last edited by joetys; 31-07-2011 at 03:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by Leongsam View Post
    I was paid $780 as a junior cadet, $890 as a senior cadet and close to $1k as a 2LT. Those were the good old days when they paid an "education allowance" to those with a tertiary qualification.
    As i said at the max it is less than 1K before ROD. Not exactly huge by a long shot and I was OC for the last 6 months, not exactly a cushy job.

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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor View Post
    As i said at the max it is less than 1K before ROD. Not exactly huge by a long shot and I was OC for the last 6 months, not exactly a cushy job.
    It was huge for the era. Add free board and lodging, free food, free movies, free squash courts, free 50m pool, 50˘ booze and $2 for the best steak in town and I hardly had to spend a cent of my almost 4 figure pay.

    My salary DROPPED when I started my first real job plus my overheads shot up dramatically.


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    Default Re: Tony Tan & Son lose the plot or jus tplain dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorEvil View Post
    The plot thickens. Prior to 2003, Stanford University School of Medicine was not on MOH's schedule of approved medicals schools. This explains why he did not even bother to do his residency or housemanship. His Stanford MD was not recognized by MOH.

    See: http://singapore.usembassy.gov/uploa...tration_03.pdf
    I knew an Indian chap who had a medicine degree from India, he cannot attend MOCC as it was not recognized, he protested and ended up as the first SAF medic officer.

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  3. Truly a dishonest PM and an equally dishonest party.
    By scroobal in forum Political Issues [no rep deductions]
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 28-04-2011, 03:51 PM
  4. Ang Moh: Sg Banks Dishonest!
    By makapaaa in forum The Courtyard Café
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-11-2010, 11:24 AM
  5. Kepland VERY DISHONEST. Just Like Papaya Masters!
    By makapaaa in forum The Courtyard Café
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 30-04-2009, 02:41 AM

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