Casino Levy to be raised after Elections?

shunquan · Sep 22, 2010

Your proposal sounds good on paper but is almost impossible to implement.

And casinos doing well will be good for the majority of society. Who knows maybe the casino tax will be so huge that there will be no more or much lower income tax. Your dreams of GST reduction may also come true. If it costs a few weak willed people, so be it.

aurvandil said:
Most definitely so. The worst part about it is that we will not have any corresponding economic gain. Given the record profits they are earning, the casinos will obviously not go bankrupt if we increase the casino levy. If we replace the levy with casino card based system, the casinos might even make more money since they would have a larger customer base as opposed to a narrow customer base that is perpetual danger of problem gambling.

aurvandil · Sep 22, 2010

The "anti-casino" people have set up a facebook and petition

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=113586455367007&v=wall

http://www.petitiononline.com/fsbrws/petition.html

Under the guise of bringing back the cancelled free shuttle services, they have proposed a fairly harsh set of anti-casino measures. These are:

1. Raise the casino levy to an obscene amount like S$500-S$1000 per day and to eliminate the option of having a yearly casino levy. This will effectively stop all lower/middle income patrons from visiting the casino.

2. The Government should also mandate that all patrons should have a minimum annual income of $S30,000 to ensure that in event the casino patrons are truly addicted to gaming, they have a means to support their gaming habits. Their monthly casino expenditure should also be capped based on their monthly income. The number of times a person can visit the casino should also be capped based on their monthly income.

3. Should the Government find that the steps outline above are still not sufficient to curb the gaming habits of Singaporeans, We, the customers of Resort Worlds Sentosa will support the Government in an outright ban on all Singaporeans from entering the casino.

Over the weeks leading up to the election, Minister Balakrishnan will come under increasing pressure from the "anti-casino" group. "Casino lovers" like silverwolf should therefore set up an equivalent facebook/petition to "counter" the anti-casino" people. If they don't do this, then Minister Balakrishnan will find it very difficult not to implement at least some of the proposed measures.

Ramseth · Sep 22, 2010

People should be allowed to die if they don't wish to live anymore. There's a law against suicide but that's mockably unenforceable. How do you fine or jail someone dead (committed suicide) or pitifully half dead (attempted suicide)?

The trouble is people contemplating suicide must be educated to do it in a socially responsible manner. Don't jump MRT tracks causing train damages and jams etc.

aurvandil · Sep 22, 2010

shunquan said:
If it costs a few weak willed people, so be it.

Sorry. I'd rather pay 10% GST than have one to two hundred people kill themselves every year because of problem gambling.

shunquan · Sep 22, 2010

aurvandil said:
Over the weeks leading up to the election, Minister Balakrishnan will come under increasing pressure from the "anti-casino" group. "Casino lovers" like silverwolf should therefore set up an equivalent facebook/petition to "counter" the anti-casino" people. If they don't do this, then Minister Balakrishnan will find it very difficult not to implement at least some of the proposed measures.

Dream on. There is an understanding with the Casino operators who have put in a total of US$10 billion. The $100 is stuck, though I don't know about th $2k. And when will you people realise that the majority of the people don't go to the casino and don't give a damn.

Actually instead of wasting your time on that stupid petition, why not start a drive to get people to voluntary exclude themselves? Nah, that is not intrusive enough on other people's lives, so you won't like it.

shunquan · Sep 22, 2010

aurvandil said:
Sorry. I'd rather pay 10% GST than have one to two hundred people kill themselves every year because of problem gambling.

Good for you. Eternal salvation will be yours.

aurvandil · Sep 22, 2010

shunquan said:
The $100 is stuck, though I don't know about th $2k.

I think it will be a good start if the PAP sigificantly increases or terminates the $2k annual levy. That is the loophole which most problem gamblers are using. As mentioned before, the action needs to be retroactive since a very large number have already purchased the annual $2k levy.

shunquan · Sep 22, 2010

aurvandil said:
I think it will be a good start if the PAP sigificantly increases or terminates the $2k annual levy. That is the loophole which most problem gamblers are using. As mentioned before, the action needs to be retroactive since a very large number have already purchased the annual $2k levy.

Why are you so determined to interfere in other people's lives? First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.

aurvandil · Sep 22, 2010

shunquan said:
Why are you so determined to interfere in other people's lives?

Pretend got no problem and don't do anything also can. We will track this issue through indpendent KPIs like the suicide rate, incidence of homelessness and hold Minister Balakrishnan accountable. If he run road to another Ministry, we will hold the sucker that takes over as Minister for MCYS accountable.

Ramseth · Sep 22, 2010

aurvandil said:
Pretend got no problem and don't do anything also can. We will track this issue through indpendent KPIs like the suicide rate, incidence of homelessness and hold Minister Balakrishnan accountable. If he run road to another Ministry, we will hold the sucker that takes over as Minister for MCYS accountable.

You seem very concerned with other people committing suicide. It's their lives, let them end it if they don't want to live anymore. Just don't be so socially irresponsible as to end it by causing inconvenience to innocent public that has nothing to with them. Frankly, some of those morons, I'd gladly help them end their lives with my bare hands pro bono cleanly and swiftly with minimal pain if not for the death pemalty.

lockeliberal · Sep 22, 2010

Dear Silver

A million singaporeans since its opening is deterrence ? I do not think so. The fact remains that even as some know their limits many do not and what the casino does in order to encourage gamblers to go over their limits is well documented. The rich are given credits, the mass market gamblers are given freebies , I.e free points free transport free food, what lv and hurrah does to attract the mass market is well documented aka alantic city etc etc.

How many gamblers gamble in games they are not familiar with ? There are games in Macaiu And lv catering to culture specific games e.g big small. There may be many leagues in the world but most gamblers gamble on the leagues most culturally familiar to them I.e epl. Try getting a bet from ur neighborhood booking on epl versus bpl or spl and one will see the mechanic at work.

even taking ur argument into account I cam guarantee u that one full eight hour day in a casino n roulette or baccarat will run through any permutation of leagues u can mention. one full day. Frequency and high frequency and high which u have not disputed.

Locke

silverfox@ · Sep 22, 2010

aurvandil said:
Over the weeks leading up to the election, Minister Balakrishnan will come under increasing pressure from the "anti-casino" group. "Casino lovers" like silverwolf should therefore set up an equivalent facebook/petition to "counter" the anti-casino" people. If they don't do this, then Minister Balakrishnan will find it very difficult not to implement at least some of the proposed measures.

I believe in a country with FREEDOM where people must learn to respect each other choice of life. Of course there will always be people like you who just love to force your thoughts and ideas onto others.

You say the PAP no good, in actual fact, if you become a politician, you will be no different from them.

Set up facebook/petition? These people are childish. The only recourse to make themselves heard is to setup facebook/online petition. If the govt listens to them, do casino lovers have to setup another facebook/online petition to make the govt listen to them again.

If the govt listens to your idea, you start to say "See, govt listen to me and take my idea."
If they don't, you start to say, "See, govt only think for their selfish reasons and do not care about people." Bottomline is you want your voice to be heard and accepted.

That's why I always say, you have this mentality of 自己讲，自己爽。

shunquan · Sep 22, 2010

aurvandil said:
Pretend got no problem and don't do anything also can. We will track this issue through indpendent KPIs like the suicide rate, incidence of homelessness and hold Minister Balakrishnan accountable. If he run road to another Ministry, we will hold the sucker that takes over as Minister for MCYS accountable.

I am not pretending there isn't a problem. I am saying the problem will still there - Tanah Merah Ferry beckons. If they're going to ruin their lives anyway, why not let the rest of society benefit?

You track your KPIs, we'll track ours. If the marginal tax rate drops, if GST falls, if government has more social programmes funded by casino tax and casino levy, if our GDP goes up, I will say we have achieved our KPI.

aurvandil · Sep 22, 2010

silverfox@ said:
You say the PAP no good, in actual fact, if you become a politician, you will be no different from them.

Of all the nasty things you have said, this one hurts the most.

silverfox@ · Sep 22, 2010

lockeliberal said:
Dear Silver

A million singaporeans since its opening is deterrence ? I do not think so. The fact remains that even as some know their limits many do not and what the casino does in order to encourage gamblers to go over their limits is well documented. The rich are given credits, the mass market gamblers are given freebies , I.e free points free transport free food, what lv and hurrah does to attract the mass market is well documented aka alantic city etc etc.

How many gamblers gamble in games they are not familiar with ? There are games in Macaiu And lv catering to culture specific games e.g big small. There may be many leagues in the world but most gamblers gamble on the leagues most culturally familiar to them I.e epl. Try getting a bet from ur neighborhood booking on epl versus bpl or spl and one will see the mechanic at work.

even taking ur argument into account I cam guarantee u that one full eight hour day in a casino n roulette or baccarat will run through any permutation of leagues u can mention. one full day. Frequency and high frequency and high which u have not disputed.

Locke

Dear locke,

how much do you think the deterrence figure should be? Peg at how much?

To summarise, people who do not smoke will never like people who smoke. The more non-smoking areas are set up, the more non-smokers love it.

People who do not go nightclubs will think going nightclub is a waste of money. A place where people throw money. Try asking someone who does not love sleaze to visit nightclub, he will not want to go. Their perception of nightclub will be different from those who go.

A person who do not gamble will not love a casino. Even if you pay $100 to him to play in casino, he will tell you its a waste of his time.

What I am trying to say is the casino will appeal to people who like gambling. Those who don't should stay out. And their choices are respected. But to think why are there still so many people going to casinos even after a $100 levy seems to be a shock to them when they see a million figure. To those who goes casinos, these million figure isn't shocking at all. And seriously they don't care how much the figure clocks up to

aurvandil · Sep 22, 2010

shunquan said:
You track your KPIs, we'll track ours. If the marginal tax rate drops, if GST falls, if government has more social programmes funded by casino tax and casino levy, if our GDP goes up, I will say we have achieved our KPI.

Sound good. The PAP will display GDP numbers. The Opposition will display dead bodies and homeless people. We see who wins.

silverfox@ · Sep 22, 2010

aurvandil said:
Sound good. The PAP will display GDP numbers. The Opposition will display dead bodies and homeless people. We see who wins.

You seem to rejoice if more people commit suicide or become homeless? So you are hoping you will win this argument and prove what you said is right

If that is the case, I will prefer you lose instead. :rolleyes:

shunquan · Sep 22, 2010

aurvandil said:
Sound good. The PAP will display GDP numbers. The Opposition will display dead bodies and homeless people. We see who wins.

You really don't understand Chinese and Indian mentality, do you? The world over.

I'm not advocating this, but you give Singaporeans a choice between $1,000 casino bonus and voicing their anger over 200 suicides, half of which would have happened anyway, I let you extrapolate how Singaporeans will vote.

Did the PAP/Casino force them to gamble? Did the PAP/Casino ask them to gamble all their money? You mean nobody gambles when there are no casinos? Change $300 in junket chips and you get a free ride on any of the casino ships off shore.

Let's get practical here. At least 4,999,800 (estimated) people benefit from the casino.

aurvandil · Sep 22, 2010

silverfox@ said:
You seem to rejoice if more people commit suicide or become homeless? So you are hoping you will win this argument and prove what you said is right

If that is the case, I will prefer you lose instead.

I am hoping Minister Balakrishnan will do the right thing. He has all the numbers and he knows what must be done.

If he doesn't do the right thing, then I hope to use the political process to get him to do the right thing.

Any lives lost, people made homeless in the interim is soley on his hands.

shunquan · Sep 22, 2010

aurvandil said:
I am hoping Minister Balakrishnan will do the right thing. He has all the numbers and he knows what must be done.

If he doesn't do the right thing, then I hope to use the political process to get him to do the right thing.

Any lives lost, people made homeless in the interim is soley on his hands.

And the passionate casino uncles and aunties will organise to get you to shut up. You just hate casinos and want to find excuses to kill it.

Casino Levy to be raised after Elections?

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