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Slot games, Casino Rewards & Privileges

DutukLim

Alfrescian
Loyal
Im doubt how the win lose can be track on table game, how they know your bet exactly and further more if the player bet here and there at the same time?:confused:

The table game casino chips that RWS bought from a supplier is a new generation chip, was in the news some time back. It is a RFID chip which can be track your play anywhere in the casino by their computers. It can track not only how much you lose or win but all other information that the casino wants to know about you and your playing habits. I am sure MBS has similar chips. You can google for RFID casino chips for more information.
 

yy8888

Alfrescian
Loyal
The table game casino chips that RWS bought from a supplier is a new generation chip, was in the news some time back. It is a RFID chip which can be track your play anywhere in the casino by their computers. It can track not only how much you lose or win but all other information that the casino wants to know about you and your playing habits. I am sure MBS has similar chips. You can google for RFID casino chips for more information.

But chips are changing hands all the time. While they can possibly track location of all chips, how will they know which one goes and belongs to who?
 

DutukLim

Alfrescian
Loyal
But chips are changing hands all the time. While they can possibly track location of all chips, how will they know which one goes and belongs to who?

If you don't use a players card when playing or buying in then the computer cannot track the chip to anybody. But I think almost every body here use their players card when playing. If you buy in $1000 chips and give it to your relative or friend to play I don't know if the computer will assign it to you or the person who is playing. Is it your money or their money they are playing with. The computer may use your historical record in such situation.
 
Last edited:

yy8888

Alfrescian
Loyal
If you don't use a players card when playing or buying in then the computer cannot track the chip to anybody. But I think almost every body here use their players card when playing. If you buy in $1000 chips and give it to your relative or friend to play I don't know if the computer will assign it to you or the person who is playing. Is it your money or their money they are playing with. The computer may use your historical record in such situation.

Yeah I know but the problem is when you are changing chips, the staff is randomly picking up the chips not knowing what the chip "ID" numbers are (and also when there are many players they need to do it faster). Also some players change chips at the cashier and they do not check membership card there. There is too much "work" involved tracking every individual chip in the casino and which one was given to which player. They can keep track of how many chips we buy if we use our card, but not track the chip itself. Even if they could, there are too many ways for the chips to change hands for them to lose track that it is not worth the bother. Hope my logic makes sense here?
 

DutukLim

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yeah I know but the problem is when you are changing chips, the staff is randomly picking up the chips not knowing what the chip "ID" numbers are (and also when there are many players they need to do it faster). Also some players change chips at the cashier and they do not check membership card there. There is too much "work" involved tracking every individual chip in the casino and which one was given to which player. They can keep track of how many chips we buy if we use our card, but not track the chip itself. Even if they could, there are too many ways for the chips to change hands for them to lose track that it is not worth the bother. Hope my logic makes sense here?

Changing chip. When you change $100 black chip the small chips the dealer give to you will be assign to you. Ditto at the cashier. Too much work, it is all done by the computer. Why not google this as I don't think others here are interested about RFID chips.
 

aurvandil

Alfrescian
Loyal
RFID chip tech is in its infancy. The applications at the moment are:

1) To prevent counterfeit of high value chips;
2) To prevent crouper chips theft;
3) To prevent secondary sales of chips (esp illegal private junkets); and
4) To track the play of very high individual players (whales)

To implement the system, it is necessary to current gaming environment to "roulette stye" play where there is buy in at the table and the chips can only be used at that table. The system cannot track under the current cash chip system where the cash chip can be used at multiple tables. The investment cost to implement the technology is presently high which is why it is currently not economically viable to roll out for the general mass market players.

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/blog/rfid-casino-chips/

A recent G2E conference session in Las Vegas gave me a chance to hear industry insiders talk about the current usage of RFID (Radio Frequency ID) technology inside casinos. This technology uses radio tags embedded in casino chips to authenticate the chips, and to enable more accurate data gathering on the casino floor. The idea has been around for a number of years now, with Wynn Las Vegas using the system since 2005. In the years since, the technology has slowly improved and more casinos have begun to use the chips. An expert speaker at the conference indicated that perhaps 40 casinos in the US are currently utilizing radio-enabled chips.

Probably the most compelling casino benefit provided by RFID is the ability to validate and authenticate high-value chips. Counterfeit chips can be a major threat to a casino, and having each chip embedded with a radio tag and serial number can be a powerful weapon against fraud. Consider the risk posed by a manufacturer shipping millions of dollars of chips to the casino. With RFID, those chips are just useless tokens until the serial numbers are officially added to the inventory at the casino.

Another ability of these systems is to automate the counting process, both in the casino cage and in the table game racks on the floor. From the commentary at the conference, the technology does not currently enable a full automated count in the cage, but floor racks can be counted. I don’t know why the full-cage count still poses a problem, but these kinds of limitations seemed to be a common theme throughout the talk. The state of the art just isn’t quite there yet.

For table game players, there are two ways that RFID chips can be problematic:

The first is the use of sensors under each betting circle to accurately determine the amount a player is betting. The benefit to the casino is that average bet ratings can be precisely accurate for each player, and they can eliminate the inaccurate ratings that often allow players to earn comps above the appropriate level. See “How a Basic Strategy Player can Beat Blackjack” for more on that. In addition, if this real-time betting data can be coupled with sophisticated surveillance software, the process of detecting many forms of advantage play could be automated.

The second concern is that RFID tags could potentially allow a casino to “assign” chips to a particular player who won them at the table. If the casino knows who you are (or at least has an assigned profile for you), then chips could be tagged to you specifically. If those chips disappear out of the casino inventory for a time, if you like to stockpile chips for future play, this information would be a problem, especially if someone other than the original player eventually plays the chip or cashes it at the cashier.

Fortunately, although the system sellers paint RFID as an extremely capable platform, there are still holes in all of this process. The casino floor is a messy environment for this kind of orderly tracking. Players move from table to table, and chips are in constant motion. The kind of bulletproof tracking that would allow chips to be assigned to specific players with any degree of certainty just doesn’t exist. In my opinion, this will not change in the next few years. An industry representative admitted as much during the G2E session. When asked if the system could assign a chip to a specific player, his response was that “It could be done”, but he said that in a tone that made clear that the technology today falls short of this goal.

There may be some exceptions to this, particularly in the tracking of junket players who may be assigned inventoried special chips upon their arrival. In that use case, the main goal is to make sure that the junket players are giving the action expected for their trip.

For now, the principle threat that RFID poses to blackjack players is that it may be difficult or impossible to inflate your average bet rating at the table. To accomplish even this requires a substantial investment by the casino in sensors that currently run about $10,000 to equip a single blackjack table.

So, RFID may be here now, but it still falls short of its eventual promise for the industry. For savvy players, that’s a good thing.


Yeah I know but the problem is when you are changing chips, the staff is randomly picking up the chips not knowing what the chip "ID" numbers are (and also when there are many players they need to do it faster). Also some players change chips at the cashier and they do not check membership card there. There is too much "work" involved tracking every individual chip in the casino and which one was given to which player. They can keep track of how many chips we buy if we use our card, but not track the chip itself. Even if they could, there are too many ways for the chips to change hands for them to lose track that it is not worth the bother. Hope my logic makes sense here?
 

yy8888

Alfrescian
Loyal
RFID chip tech is in its infancy. The applications at the moment are:

1) To prevent counterfeit of high value chips;
2) To prevent crouper chips theft;
3) To prevent secondary sales of chips (esp illegal private junkets); and
4) To track the play of very high individual players (whales)

To implement the system, it is necessary to current gaming environment to "roulette stye" play where there is buy in at the table and the chips can only be used at that table. The system cannot track under the current cash chip system where the cash chip can be used at multiple tables. The investment cost to implement the technology is presently high which is why it is currently not economically viable to roll out for the general mass market players.

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/blog/rfid-casino-chips/

A recent G2E conference session in Las Vegas gave me a chance to hear industry insiders talk about the current usage of RFID (Radio Frequency ID) technology inside casinos. This technology uses radio tags embedded in casino chips to authenticate the chips, and to enable more accurate data gathering on the casino floor. The idea has been around for a number of years now, with Wynn Las Vegas using the system since 2005. In the years since, the technology has slowly improved and more casinos have begun to use the chips. An expert speaker at the conference indicated that perhaps 40 casinos in the US are currently utilizing radio-enabled chips.

Probably the most compelling casino benefit provided by RFID is the ability to validate and authenticate high-value chips. Counterfeit chips can be a major threat to a casino, and having each chip embedded with a radio tag and serial number can be a powerful weapon against fraud. Consider the risk posed by a manufacturer shipping millions of dollars of chips to the casino. With RFID, those chips are just useless tokens until the serial numbers are officially added to the inventory at the casino.

Another ability of these systems is to automate the counting process, both in the casino cage and in the table game racks on the floor. From the commentary at the conference, the technology does not currently enable a full automated count in the cage, but floor racks can be counted. I don’t know why the full-cage count still poses a problem, but these kinds of limitations seemed to be a common theme throughout the talk. The state of the art just isn’t quite there yet.

For table game players, there are two ways that RFID chips can be problematic:

The first is the use of sensors under each betting circle to accurately determine the amount a player is betting. The benefit to the casino is that average bet ratings can be precisely accurate for each player, and they can eliminate the inaccurate ratings that often allow players to earn comps above the appropriate level. See “How a Basic Strategy Player can Beat Blackjack” for more on that. In addition, if this real-time betting data can be coupled with sophisticated surveillance software, the process of detecting many forms of advantage play could be automated.

The second concern is that RFID tags could potentially allow a casino to “assign” chips to a particular player who won them at the table. If the casino knows who you are (or at least has an assigned profile for you), then chips could be tagged to you specifically. If those chips disappear out of the casino inventory for a time, if you like to stockpile chips for future play, this information would be a problem, especially if someone other than the original player eventually plays the chip or cashes it at the cashier.

Fortunately, although the system sellers paint RFID as an extremely capable platform, there are still holes in all of this process. The casino floor is a messy environment for this kind of orderly tracking. Players move from table to table, and chips are in constant motion. The kind of bulletproof tracking that would allow chips to be assigned to specific players with any degree of certainty just doesn’t exist. In my opinion, this will not change in the next few years. An industry representative admitted as much during the G2E session. When asked if the system could assign a chip to a specific player, his response was that “It could be done”, but he said that in a tone that made clear that the technology today falls short of this goal.

There may be some exceptions to this, particularly in the tracking of junket players who may be assigned inventoried special chips upon their arrival. In that use case, the main goal is to make sure that the junket players are giving the action expected for their trip.

For now, the principle threat that RFID poses to blackjack players is that it may be difficult or impossible to inflate your average bet rating at the table. To accomplish even this requires a substantial investment by the casino in sensors that currently run about $10,000 to equip a single blackjack table.

So, RFID may be here now, but it still falls short of its eventual promise for the industry. For savvy players, that’s a good thing.

In short, the technology to track individual chips is there but at present it still isn't viable to track every player using these chips. :smile:
 

aurvandil

Alfrescian
Loyal
At present, the punters who know a casino's comp system well enough to comp hustle is relatively small. It makes little economic sense to spend $30 to $40 mil to roll out a comprehensive tracking system just so you can save $2 to $3 million a year from comp hustlers. The present manual identification of high value players who like to play in the mass market areas has also been battle tested for years and is the pride of the pit bosses. The salesman talk of how an RFID system can better identify such players is therefore met with a great deal of resistance and skepticism.

Unless the technology evolves and there is a huge drop in price, it will probably be restricted to the areas that were previously mentioned.

In short, the technology to track individual chips is there but at present it still isn't viable to track every player using these chips. :smile:
 

hokkien

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
No wonder ppl say casino can agar agar track your wining or loses... And casino is best place for money laundering :biggrin:
 

yy8888

Alfrescian
Loyal
Today, RWS upgraded my friend and my membership card (his from silver to gold and mine from gold to maxims valid until your same review date and your points to maintaining will be intact). Just go to the membership kiosk to see if you got the upgrade under "Promotions". In addition to free upgrade, each of us also receive ONE night free hotel stay valid until Oct 31st but cannot be used on Sat nites and the F1 weekend. Not sure if this applies to everyone across board.
 

alchemist

Alfrescian
Loyal
just came back last evening from HK/Macau

1st casino stop at New Lisboa.. to try our luck
(stay at Atilla Hotel (Taipa region) but went over to the other side of the bridge)

just within the first 30 mins of play there only, my wife hit "DFDC major" jackpot !

play HK20cents at 176 credits..won HK28000 (or about S$4500)

most of the time..playing max lines..at min bets credits.

With that big jackpot won...the whole trip is "fully sponsored".

Free food, free play, free stay, free accomodations, free gifts, free shopping at Macau/HK
(stay 2 nights at HK and 2 nights at HK)

Finally, we came back with more HK$ than we bought there.

We going back to sell our HK $ to our local money changer later this afternoon. (haha..)

btw
after that big win...the rest of play is "so so " only but our bankroll can last longer as the machines
are more friendly than our locals..?

(in fact... we were abit carried away..since we had excess cash.. to play
and redeem alot of gifts from the points played)..

Throwing HK$1000 into the machines without much considerations..
i lost overall..but my son still managed to bring back and make min..profits
(big winner...of course..was my wife..)

only went to Venetian and Wynn..beside the New Lisboa casino to had our fun..

But still came back more more HK$ than we had after the whole trip.
 

DutukLim

Alfrescian
Loyal
just came back last evening from HK/Macau

1st casino stop at New Lisboa.. to try our luck
(stay at Atilla Hotel (Taipa region) but went over to the other side of the bridge)

just within the first 30 mins of play there only, my wife hit "DFDC major" jackpot !

play HK20cents at 176 credits..won HK28000 (or about S$4500)

most of the time..playing max lines..at min bets credits.

With that big jackpot won...the whole trip is "fully sponsored".

Free food, free play, free stay, free accomodations, free gifts, free shopping at Macau/HK
(stay 2 nights at HK and 2 nights at HK)

Finally, we came back with more HK$ than we bought there.

We going back to sell our HK $ to our local money changer later this afternoon. (haha..)

btw
after that big win...the rest of play is "so so " only but our bankroll can last longer as the machines
are more friendly than our locals..?

(in fact... we were abit carried away..since we had excess cash.. to play
and redeem alot of gifts from the points played)..

Throwing HK$1000 into the machines without much considerations..
i lost overall..but my son still managed to bring back and make min..profits
(big winner...of course..was my wife..)

only went to Venetian and Wynn..beside the New Lisboa casino to had our fun..

But still came back more more HK$ than we had after the whole trip.

Going to HK next month. Got 4 free nights on the SC ships. Wanted to spend 2 nights in Macau but I see the hotel rates have gone through the roof. The Venetian where I want to stay is about S$400 per night on weekdays. When I was there a few years ago I stayed in a 4 star hotel for less than S$100 per night.

But airfare on LCC JetStar is now S$280 including meals compared with S$500+ when I fly on Cathay pacific.
 

QinShiHuang

Alfrescian
Loyal
Now 4 times from same bank, total max 12 times from all bank, so if u get 4x 3 banks the rest of the bank cant do your biz liao. BTW u manage to get 20k from a bank mean the pay should achieve 5k a month coz even since last the before the rule change the max credit given by a bank only up to 4x salary according to MAS rule. :smile:

Haha, bro, last time they increase your credit limit, don't even review on our pay slip, but I didn't know last time also got cap

So obviously my soldier pay are so pathetic :biggrin:
 

QinShiHuang

Alfrescian
Loyal
:*:

$1000 bet for one single number is very "BIG", my heartbeat will be 150 beats per min and may "jump out" anytime !
$1k per number, too big lah.... scare scare. When I play roulette, I only know how to "pepper" the table with $10/$25 chips or apply those "so call sure win" roulette strategy and most of time can make a few hundred extra bucks for slot play. Limit to 3-5 games and of course I ever kena losing all chips in the first game, despite the table was almost covered by my colour chips but the ball dropped into one number that I totally missed out.

Of course once we started to place that kind of bet, sooner will tio 1 time jiak lut, jiak lut lor :biggrin:

My style usually change $2k of colour chips and $1k of cash chips (in $100)

Like what you have say, normal play will place those so call "safety" bet lor

Than see chance only, whacked la

At the end of the day, just like slot, once a while must hit max in order to gain that advantage, or else when walk out of casino empty pocket, we will think back, just now certain point of time, we should have gain profit and run
 

QinShiHuang

Alfrescian
Loyal
No wonder ppl say casino can agar agar track your wining or loses... And casino is best place for money laundering :biggrin:

Read until the chip topic until head spinning, so just reply my view and thought here, anyway bro, 2 weeks never go club, very busy recently

Whether casino can use chips to monitor our movement or not is secondary

But considering usually every table game will take longer time to complete, especially when payment time, regardless of busy or not busy days, so supervisors behind got lots of time to monitor each and every players

Bacarrat and roulette sometime can vomit blood due to the duration of each game, those players also knn type, see card must see until so long meh

In average, bacarrat might take 1 hour to complete a game and roulette roughly about 3 games in an hour, that's why many players want fast fast, go RR or RB, than all die fast fast lor :biggrin:
 

justl00king

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If you don't use a players card when playing or buying in then the computer cannot track the chip to anybody. But I think almost every body here use their players card when playing. If you buy in $1000 chips and give it to your relative or friend to play I don't know if the computer will assign it to you or the person who is playing. Is it your money or their money they are playing with. The computer may use your historical record in such situation.
I only clock in my card when playing slots, but not when changing chips or playing at table games.
Quite a hassle to clock in and out too often, prefer to table hop and move around when the flow is not going smooth. :smile:
 

justl00king

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Today, RWS upgraded my friend and my membership card (his from silver to gold and mine from gold to maxims valid until your same review date and your points to maintaining will be intact). Just go to the membership kiosk to see if you got the upgrade under "Promotions". In addition to free upgrade, each of us also receive ONE night free hotel stay valid until Oct 31st but cannot be used on Sat nites and the F1 weekend. Not sure if this applies to everyone across board.
I think they are doing the up/down grade this month. I was there last week, can't enter the VIP car park with my card.
Went to membership counter to check, was told I've been downgraded due to insufficient points earned. :p

Also informed that some of my points will expire by this year end. So for those with many points not used, may be good to find out the expiry date and use them up. :smile:
 

justl00king

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
just came back last evening from HK/Macau

1st casino stop at New Lisboa.. to try our luck
(stay at Atilla Hotel (Taipa region) but went over to the other side of the bridge)

just within the first 30 mins of play there only, my wife hit "DFDC major" jackpot !

play HK20cents at 176 credits..won HK28000 (or about S$4500)

most of the time..playing max lines..at min bets credits.

With that big jackpot won...the whole trip is "fully sponsored".

Free food, free play, free stay, free accomodations, free gifts, free shopping at Macau/HK
(stay 2 nights at HK and 2 nights at HK)

Finally, we came back with more HK$ than we bought there.

We going back to sell our HK $ to our local money changer later this afternoon. (haha..)

btw
after that big win...the rest of play is "so so " only but our bankroll can last longer as the machines
are more friendly than our locals..?

(in fact... we were abit carried away..since we had excess cash.. to play
and redeem alot of gifts from the points played)..

Throwing HK$1000 into the machines without much considerations..
i lost overall..but my son still managed to bring back and make min..profits
(big winner...of course..was my wife..)

only went to Venetian and Wynn..beside the New Lisboa casino to had our fun..

But still came back more more HK$ than we had after the whole trip.
Congrats bro on the winning trip!

The feeling of enjoying a "free" nice holiday with free stays, great food, shopping and still bring back some winnings..best! :biggrin:
 

justl00king

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Going to HK next month. Got 4 free nights on the SC ships. Wanted to spend 2 nights in Macau but I see the hotel rates have gone through the roof. The Venetian where I want to stay is about S$400 per night on weekdays. When I was there a few years ago I stayed in a 4 star hotel for less than S$100 per night.

But airfare on LCC JetStar is now S$280 including meals compared with S$500+ when I fly on Cathay pacific.
Venetian is a all suite hotel. So rooms are rather big in size and comfy, downside a little worn out. I only stayed there once for 4 nights, around $400/night. Can check the surrounding for newer hotels like Galaxy, Holiday Inn etc. For my next trip, hope to be able to book Wynn at more reasonable rates.

Good luck with your SC holiday cruise! :smile:
 

yy8888

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think they are doing the up/down grade this month. I was there last week, can't enter the VIP car park with my card.
Went to membership counter to check, was told I've been downgraded due to insufficient points earned. :p

Also informed that some of my points will expire by this year end. So for those with many points not used, may be good to find out the expiry date and use them up. :smile:

Membership kiosks are located outside the casino now. So for those not on annual levy like me, we don't need to go in to check :smile:

I have like almost 0 GD left as in the last few sessions, I will use what balance I have on slots.
 
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