Focus vs Venom and the need to understand politics 101

[scroobal]

Dear Ramseth

Whatever personal grievances suffered because of the remarks, whatever views one has of the context of the remarks. At the end of the day is unity and compromise more important than being distinct and seperate and assorted personal grievances ? If La Mei's position remains, "I shall have nothing to do with you unless you are more like a true opposition as I see it, " then I suspect very little unity is possible. Politics is about strange bed fellows, Opposition politics about even stranger opposites. There must be compromise on both sides and for that compromise to work. The compromise must hurt both sides equallyfor the common goal of challenging the PAP. We really need an Anwar like figure that can rise past LTK CST and heck even CSJ :_)). That man could do the politically impossible. PAS in bed with DAP :_))

Locke

Excellent comment thus the new thread.

I noticed that people do not realise that various political parties and entities exist because there are varying views and approach to a common goal. One should focus on on their respective approach and for want of a better term the "common enemy" - the PAP.

Coalition, common front, political clusters exist usually for time period when common themes are shared and "strange bed fellows exist" that need to be accommodated.

Sadly the nitpicking, the venom and the focus at least in this forum and in some blogs are skewed to everyone else but the PAP.

The end result has to be votes, support from the ground and endorsement by singaporeans not excuses, bullshit and flying pigs albeit within an oxygen deprived "democracy" dictated by a tyrant.

Forget about TOC or those who have been associated with the PAP in the past. A Leopard cannot change its spot. The PAP has not changed the way its ruled for the last 50 years so there should not be any reason for being associated with them in the first place.

If JBJ, Chiam, Ling, Low, etc can do it, I don't see how others can't. Many were very close like Seow, Tang etc. Just be focused, resonate with Singaporeans and get the PAP out one by one. Gradual but resolute.

[HTOLAS]

Thank for expressing clearly what I have said so many times before. This is no time to condemn any one approach to opposing the PAPzis because above all else I believe each is valid in its own way and none is violent. We have to do for each other what the PAPzis would not do for us - accommodate. This is the only way we will get to see the back of the PAPzis in my lifetime.

[zhihau]

If JBJ, Chiam, Ling, Low, etc can do it, I don't see how others can't. Many were very close like Seow, Tang etc. Just be focused, resonate with Singaporeans and get the PAP out one by one. Gradual but resolute.

do Sinkies care about their fellow comrades to begin with? the strangle-hold is nothing but pure pragmatism at work. the incumbent worked it fully to their advantage and to break away the strangle-hold would require tremendous effort.

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

I wouldn't rule out anyone from within the PAP church :_)). Take Anwar as an example, it is possible that some make take a matrix like red pill.



Locke

[scroobal]

Thank for expressing clearly what I have said so many times before. This is no time to condemn any one approach to opposing the PAPzis because above all else I believe each is valid in its own way and none is violent. We have to do for each other what the PAPzis would not do for us - accommodate. This is the only way we will get to see the back of the PAPzis in my lifetime.

Excellent point on time and accommodation. The point on PAP not willing to accommodate is very relevant and its up to us.

[scroobal]

do Sinkies care about their fellow comrades to begin with? the strangle-hold is nothing but pure pragmatism at work. the incumbent worked it fully to their advantage and to break away the strangle-hold would require tremendous effort.

Maybe the troublemakers within the opposition fold is a minority. I am sure we can nail this. It also calls for leadership and in view of Chiam appointing a successor, it falls on Low to lead in this space.

[scroobal]

Dear Scroobal

I wouldn't rule out anyone from within the PAP church :_)). Take Anwar as an example, it is possible that some make take a matrix like red pill.



Locke

yes, something that escobar always maintained.

[scroobal]

I'm sure the general public; at the very least those who care enough to spare the time to keep abreast of the going ons in the opposition parties, are very much disappointed by the infighting and lack of unity.

It does not take much to deduce the need for a sit down or in societal parlance, a conference to trash out mutual differences and to make compromises for the better good of all.

As I look at opposition landscape, the troublemakers appear to be a small but a vocal minority with same mantra - "I am the real opposition". By the way, I am pretty sure, they are not keen on the electoral process.

Its high time, we screw the PAP. There is a whole swathe of things that they need to account for. ABC child care centre debacle, merill lynch, citibank, etc etc. etc. TOC charading as non-partisan when everyone one of them came from the PAP fold will also be an issue.

[The_Latest_H]

Pretty much so.

I also think we have to get away from the pettiness and focus on the issues, and by means on how to solve them using common sense as well. Until we do that, all these labels are just pointless. Ideological victories are pretty much pointless, especially if the PAP benefits from these endless bickering, snapping and misunderstandings between the APs.

[zhihau]

Maybe the troublemakers within the opposition fold is a minority. I am sure we can nail this. It also calls for leadership and in view of Chiam appointing a successor, it falls on Low to lead in this space.

young Ms Chiam is not taking over? she could have garner quite a fair bit of votes, but risk going into the shadows of her father...

[Wisely]

Avantas sounds like the one you guys are talking about. He should come in to state his position.

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

For the real push I think you may indeed require someone big from the "PAP Church" and I include senior civil servants, military generals, high court judges, GLC heads etc in that equation. In fact imagine what would have happened if Ong Teng Cheong and Devan Nair collaborated together to form a new political party to challenge PAP when they both fell out of favour with PAP. Unfortunately that is water under the bridge now.

Dear Scroobal

I wouldn't rule out anyone from within the PAP church :_)). Take Anwar as an example, it is possible that some make take a matrix like red pill.



Locke

[lockeliberal]

Dear Porifirio

From within the Church or from within the PRO PAP establishment :_)) Of course the very sort of people I see leading would not be "pure" or "real" enough for some people here


Cheers


Locke

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

This Manichean trait for looking at things in black and white is becoming tiresome to some extent. Politics and Manichean tendencies do not appear to fit hand in glove.

Dear Porifirio

From within the Church or from within the PRO PAP establishment :_)) Of course the very sort of people I see leading would not be "pure" or "real" enough for some people here


Cheers


Locke

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

No doubt Ong appeared to live by his chinese gentleman code. However the cynic in me also tends to believe that perhaps Ong was also influenced by self interest, in particular the protection of his family and their wealth.

As for Devan Nair, whatever his faults, he appeared to be a true loyal and courageous patriot, anti-colonialist, nationalist and fighter for the working class who did not appear to be a money grabber. He went to prison for his principles, and in this regard I am not talking about a Dr Chee sort of prison stint but real longterm ISA detention by the British. It is a great shame and pity that he had to die in a white man's country in self-exile after all that he did and stood for.

Finally with regards Lee Kuan Yew, I tend to think history shall come down to % terms on his legacy. Perhaps 60-65% good and 40-35% bad. It goes without saying that history may be even more favourable to LKY if only he had totally relinquished all political power when he stepped down as PM but that also is water under the bridge and LKY's legacy shall probably bear a burden due to his apparent thirst to retain political power to what looks like the very end of his days.

I'll avoid commenting on Devan Nair. To me, Ong Teng Cheong epitomised the true samurai adhering to the Bushido code unlike some scum claiming it for political mileage.
He, Ong Teng Cheong Did not turn on his ex master despite being disowned. I would like to add, a true Chinese Gentleman personified. This is how history is judging him. If there's one good reason for the desire to live longer, it would be to see how history will judge Lee Kuan Yew.