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Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

thetoileter

Alfrescian
Loyal
No need go mudland ah,just direct flight to narita can alrdy.
Immigration v. easy(JP Passport)
But then what do i do with my SG Passport & IC?
 

Sally2212

Alfrescian
Loyal
Hello all,
Hope someone can help me.
1. If I apply to defer ns for my son until 21, do I have to renounce my SG citizen first? He will be 15 soon. I tried to apply exit permit online but it ask for bond, so I called ns.sg, they say to email cmpb. Waiting to hear back. He already has the 1st exit permit from 13-15. He is SC by decent. Never lived in SG, except for short visits before 7.
2. I also have a joint ownership hdb flat with my brother just to help with the downpayment, since my parents are living with him. Will I be asked to give up ownership if I renounce. I don't want to make him pay back my CPf since he has is not doing too well in the SG economy now.
3. my younger daughter will renounce too. They both have no desire to live in SG, since they have been in US all their life.
4. They both did have their 1st SG passport that has since expired, several years ago.
 

thetoileter

Alfrescian
Loyal
1. There is no way you can renounce SG citizenship at 15,only at 21 AFTER serving NS.However,I need a few more details.Has you son received his passport?If so,at what age did he receive it at?
2. Idk.
3. Your younger daughter no problem,just wait for her to turn 21.
4. What year did they receive their SG passport?When did it expire.These are important details.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Dual Citizenship

With many countries moving towards retaining talent, previous restrictions on holding more than one citizenship by a number of governments around the world has been set aside.

Australia which prior to April 2002, had it in law where Dual Citizenship was explicitly prohibited now allows it and they have gone one step further by allowing ex-citizens to re-apply their citizenship which they previously renounced.

There is no law in Singapore that prohibits dual citizenship. The law however provides the govt to take it take it away from you for reasons best known to them. No one has been prosecuted for having dual citizenship. Since there is no law prohibiting it, there is no law allowing for punishment.

If you have acquired a new citizenship from a new country and don't need to take out your CPF, you may consider holding on to it. Your options are certainly better.

If you have any doubts visit ICA personally bringing your new country's documents with you. I know that ICA will not give you an answer over the phone without citing documents. There may be instance where you have a criminal record etc, Singapore might take the opportunity to get rid of you. Tan Wah Piow case comes to mind. As Tan Wah Piow did not acquire British citizenship and held on to his Singapore citizenship, Jayakumar and company enacted new legislation. I understand that this legislation has been removed.

Do we mindful not to make false declarations.

As always keep up with the times.

Hello [scroobal],

A friend of mine sent the following to me, after I indicated to him that there is no law in Singapore which prohibits dual citizenship.
It looks like the current application form to renew a SG passport, has a question re: do you have or did you acquire the citizenship of another country.

**********

“Deprivation of citizenship on acquisition of foreign citizenship
134.—(1) The Government may by order deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —
(a)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 acquired by registration, naturalisation or other voluntary and formal act (other than marriage) the citizenship of any country outside Singapore or having so acquired such citizenship before the age of 18 years continues to retain it after that age; or
(b)
the citizen, being a woman who is a citizen of Singapore by registration under Article 123(2), has acquired the citizenship of any country outside Singapore by virtue of her marriage to a person who is not a citizen of Singapore.
(2) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order.
Deprivation of citizenship on exercise of rights of foreign nationals, etc
135.—(1) The Government may by order deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —
(a)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 voluntarily claimed and exercised any rights (other than any rights in connection with the use of a passport) available to him under the law of any country outside Singapore being rights accorded exclusively to the citizens or nationals of that country;
(b)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 applied to the authorities of a place outside Singapore for the issue or renewal of a passport or used a passport issued by such authorities as a travel document; or
(c)
he is of or over the age of 18 years and has, whether before or after attaining the age of 18 years, been ordinarily resident outside Singapore for a continuous period of 10 years (including any period of residence outside Singapore before the commencement of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 1985) and has not at any time —
(i)
during that period or thereafter entered Singapore by virtue of a certificate of status or travel document issued by the competent authorities of Singapore; or
(ii)
during that period been in the service of the Government or of an international organisation of which Singapore is a member or of such other body or organisation as the President may, by notification in the Gazette, designate.
(2) For the purposes of clause (1)(a), the exercise of a vote in any political election in a place outside Singapore shall be deemed to be the voluntary claim and exercise of a right available under the law of that place.
(3) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order.”
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Hello [scroobal],

A friend of mine sent the following to me, after I indicated to him that there is no law in Singapore which prohibits dual citizenship.
It looks like the current application form to renew a SG passport, has a question re: do you have or did you acquire the citizenship of another country.

**********

“Deprivation of citizenship on acquisition of foreign citizenship
134.—(1) The Government may by order deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —
(a)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 acquired by registration, naturalisation or other voluntary and formal act (other than marriage) the citizenship of any country outside Singapore or having so acquired such citizenship before the age of 18 years continues to retain it after that age; or
(b)
the citizen, being a woman who is a citizen of Singapore by registration under Article 123(2), has acquired the citizenship of any country outside Singapore by virtue of her marriage to a person who is not a citizen of Singapore.
(2) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order.
Deprivation of citizenship on exercise of rights of foreign nationals, etc
135.—(1) The Government may by order deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —
(a)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 voluntarily claimed and exercised any rights (other than any rights in connection with the use of a passport) available to him under the law of any country outside Singapore being rights accorded exclusively to the citizens or nationals of that country;
(b)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 applied to the authorities of a place outside Singapore for the issue or renewal of a passport or used a passport issued by such authorities as a travel document; or
(c)
he is of or over the age of 18 years and has, whether before or after attaining the age of 18 years, been ordinarily resident outside Singapore for a continuous period of 10 years (including any period of residence outside Singapore before the commencement of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 1985) and has not at any time —
(i)
during that period or thereafter entered Singapore by virtue of a certificate of status or travel document issued by the competent authorities of Singapore; or
(ii)
during that period been in the service of the Government or of an international organisation of which Singapore is a member or of such other body or organisation as the President may, by notification in the Gazette, designate.
(2) For the purposes of clause (1)(a), the exercise of a vote in any political election in a place outside Singapore shall be deemed to be the voluntary claim and exercise of a right available under the law of that place.
(3) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order.”

If you answer NO ...they catch you, what is the worse that could happen? Pay a fine, lose sinkapore citizenship. If they close an eye, which they have been doing for years, you can continue to carry sinkee passport.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Hi Charlie

That question on the renewal form was introduced quite sometime back. That legislation was on the books before the current PM was born. The operating word is "may" and not "shall". It has also been quoted in SBF by others in the last 19 years and I have replied on those occasions. It is used against those who act against the country's interest - political etc.

No one has been prosecuted for acquiring another country's citizenship because there is no such law.

ICA would have made it clear in their form that singaporeans holding other foreign citizenship would not have their passport renewed if it was indeed the law or that they would reject it in a blanket manner? I am aware of people receiving renewal despite ticking yes and giving details of their other citzenship.

Th wider world is meant for the brave and not for the meek and those suffering from self fear.

I know of acquaintances who still believe it is illegal. One even is the classmate of a former PS who also gave him the wrong advice.

By the way, the current AG's father had his Singapore citizenship stripped under this legislation even though he did not acquire another citizenship but for his political activites. He became stateless but he ran one of the biggest law firm. Welcome to Singapore and the PAP's world.

Hello [scroobal],

A friend of mine sent the following to me, after I indicated to him that there is no law in Singapore which prohibits dual citizenship.
It looks like the current application form to renew a SG passport, has a question re: do you have or did you acquire the citizenship of another country.

**********

“Deprivation of citizenship on acquisition of foreign citizenship
134.—(1) The Government may by order deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —
(a)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 acquired by registration, naturalisation or other voluntary and formal act (other than marriage) the citizenship of any country outside Singapore or having so acquired such citizenship before the age of 18 years continues to retain it after that age; or
(b)
the citizen, being a woman who is a citizen of Singapore by registration under Article 123(2), has acquired the citizenship of any country outside Singapore by virtue of her marriage to a person who is not a citizen of Singapore.
(2) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order.
Deprivation of citizenship on exercise of rights of foreign nationals, etc
135.—(1) The Government may by order deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —
(a)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 voluntarily claimed and exercised any rights (other than any rights in connection with the use of a passport) available to him under the law of any country outside Singapore being rights accorded exclusively to the citizens or nationals of that country;
(b)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 applied to the authorities of a place outside Singapore for the issue or renewal of a passport or used a passport issued by such authorities as a travel document; or
(c)
he is of or over the age of 18 years and has, whether before or after attaining the age of 18 years, been ordinarily resident outside Singapore for a continuous period of 10 years (including any period of residence outside Singapore before the commencement of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 1985) and has not at any time —
(i)
during that period or thereafter entered Singapore by virtue of a certificate of status or travel document issued by the competent authorities of Singapore; or
(ii)
during that period been in the service of the Government or of an international organisation of which Singapore is a member or of such other body or organisation as the President may, by notification in the Gazette, designate.
(2) For the purposes of clause (1)(a), the exercise of a vote in any political election in a place outside Singapore shall be deemed to be the voluntary claim and exercise of a right available under the law of that place.
(3) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order.”
 
Last edited:

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Making a false declaration is a criminal offence. If you say yes, there is additional series of screening of family members etc.

If you have migrated and return with your family to visit on your new country's passport, as you and your family exit after your visit thru Changi immigration, clear your passport before your family and go behind the immigration officer and see the PC monitor of your family as they pasports are screened. You will see photos one or two relatives on the screen. The monitors have privacy screens so you can't see from the side.

Make sure you use the back booth and not the first booth.

If you answer NO ...they catch you, what is the worse that could happen? Pay a fine, lose sinkapore citizenship. If they close an eye, which they have been doing for years, you can continue to carry sinkee passport.
 

Sally2212

Alfrescian
Loyal
1. I mean in order for my son to be granted deferment, will i also need to renounce. Some of the news I read seemed to indicate parents should have no ties with SG.
2. My son's passport expired in 2008. He is SG by decent. He currently has dual citizen. Never lived in SG, except a couple of visits before age 9.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
1. No. All you need to apply for deferment for your son is the visa stamp on the passports to show that your family have migrated. You don't even have to take foreign citizenship. When your son reaches 21 and wants to renounce, he has to provide his foreign citizenship and fill up family details.

2. Don't renew his SG passport. He can visit Singapore numerous times on his foreign passport.

1. I mean in order for my son to be granted deferment, will i also need to renounce. Some of the news I read seemed to indicate parents should have no ties with SG.
2. My son's passport expired in 2008. He is SG by decent. He currently has dual citizen. Never lived in SG, except a couple of visits before age 9.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
1. No. All you need to apply for deferment for your son is the visa stamp on the passports to show that your family have migrated. You don't even have to take foreign citizenship. When your son reaches 21 and wants to renounce, he has to provide his foreign citizenship and fill up family details.

2. Don't renew his SG passport. He can visit Singapore numerous times on his foreign passport.

Our children were born in Canada.
They only went to visit SG when they were infants, and in 2014.
Although I applied for SG citizenship for them, they never had any SG NRIC, SG Passport.
It looks like my application for SG citizenship means I burden our sons with application for deferment from NS, and eventual renunciation of SG citizenship when they turn 21.
For the daughters, we will see whether the SG government will insist that they renounce SG citizenship at age 21.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
You must apply for deferment from NS when they reach16.5 yrs when NS registration takes place. If not your sons must serve NS first before they can renounce their citizenship. If you are late to apply for exit permit and deferment, they will fine you but this is compoundable without going to court but you can still apply for deferment.


Our children were born in Canada.
They only went to visit SG when they were infants, and in 2014.
Although I applied for SG citizenship for them, they never had any SG NRIC, SG Passport.
It looks like my application for SG citizenship means I burden our sons with application for deferment from NS, and eventual renunciation of SG citizenship when they turn 21.
For the daughters, we will see whether the SG government will insist that they renounce SG citizenship at age 21.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You must apply for deferment from NS when they reach 16.5 yrs when NS registration takes place. If not your sons must serve NS first before they can renounce their citizenship. If you are late to apply for exit permit and deferment, they will fine you but this is compoundable without going to court but you can still apply for deferment.

Have to apply for deferment from NS at age 14.
Applied and received deferment.
Thank you.
 

Sally2212

Alfrescian
Loyal
Charlie - you will need to apply for exit permit for your son when he turns 13.
I'm in the same predicament as you. I should not have apply for his S/C by decent, at least he might still get a chance to become PR if he wants to. I heard once you renounce citizenship, govt will unlikely grant a PR or work permit in future.
I am trying to apply his exit permit online, but online is asking for Bond. I call ns, but they say to email cmpb. I emailed cmpb but have not receive a response. I'm running out of time, so I'm going to call to see if I can speak with someone.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Charlie - you will need to apply for exit permit for your son when he turns 13.
I'm in the same predicament as you. I should not have apply for his S/C by decent, at least he might still get a chance to become PR if he wants to. I heard once you renounce citizenship, govt will unlikely grant a PR or work permit in future.
I am trying to apply his exit permit online, but online is asking for Bond. I call ns, but they say to email cmpb. I emailed cmpb but have not receive a response. I'm running out of time, so I'm going to call to see if I can speak with someone.

In 2016, I did apply for his exit permit.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You must apply for deferment from NS when they reach16.5 yrs when NS registration takes place. If not your sons must serve NS first before they can renounce their citizenship. If you are late to apply for exit permit and deferment, they will fine you but this is compoundable without going to court but you can still apply for deferment.

In Nov 2015, I received two letters from MINDEF Singapore:

A. National Service Deferment ( 4 paragraph letter)
1. .... XYZ to be granted deferment from full-time NS till his age of 21,. pending renunciation of his Singapore citizenship.
2. [ about if he changes his mind about renouncing his citizenship or is found to have enjoyed the privileges of Singapore citizenship, his deferment will be revoked. ]
3. We are enclosing the letter of of approval of Exit Permit to enable him to remain outside Singapore till his age of 17.
4. As he is required to register for NS at the age of 16.5 years, we wil be contacting you for the necessary documentation in due course. Once he has registered for NS, we will issue him another Exit Permit, valid till his age of 21.

B. Application for Exit Permit
Application has been acceded to. You have been issued an electronic Exit Permit valid from Nov 2015 to Oct 2018, pending renunciation of Singapore citizenship.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Charlie - you will need to apply for exit permit for your son when he turns 13.
I'm in the same predicament as you. I should not have apply for his S/C by decent, at least he might still get a chance to become PR if he wants to. I heard once you renounce citizenship, govt will unlikely grant a PR or work permit in future.
I am trying to apply his exit permit online, but online is asking for Bond. I call ns, but they say to email cmpb. I emailed cmpb but have not receive a response. I'm running out of time, so I'm going to call to see if I can speak with someone.

Why do you have to provide a bond?
 

Sally2212

Alfrescian
Loyal
Hi Charlie,
Looks like yours is also electronic EP. I spoke to mindef, they say online will require a bond if more than 2 years of EP requested, maybe they updated the policy. Anyway, mindef email a deferment form to complete. I just did that and emailed them. They say I will hear from them in about a week on the decision for deferment pending renunciation. I asked them if parents are also required to renounce, they say no. They only evaluate the child's situation, not the parents.
 
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