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Thread: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Bro, nothing more satisfying to the soul than raising one's family to take opportunites of a great country and moulding them into individuals with depth and breath.

    Believe me, you kids will acknowledge and be grateful for what your wife and you did in crossing more than half the world, face the challenges of a new country and taking the trouble of picking the best for their future.

    Really good to hear such things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie9 View Post
    I wish I had the opportunity (but I was not bright enough then, as I did not have 3 to 4 A's) like several of my schoolmates who were sent to France on a scholarship and where they spent a year learning French.
    Currently, our children attend half day Saturday school (from Jk to Grade 12) to learn my wife's mother tongue (the Mandarin schools are outside of downtown Toronto, and about the same time as our Staurday school).
    In Sep 2009, our eldest child will attend a Catholic school with a concentrated gifted program (one of three in Toronto) and half day French immersion. Our second child has been selected (after 2 auditions and an academic test) and offered a place at St. Michael's Choir School (one of six in the world to be affiliated with the Pontifical Institute of Sacred Music in Rome) where they have one class per grade, and a regular academic program will be compressed so that there is time for the boys to have two 25-minute choral lessons per day, classical piano lessons, music theory lessons and extended French. One other major commitment is that the boys (as a member of one of three choirs) have to sing at one of several masses at St. Michael's Cathedral for ten months a year.
    I will provide the url, when I obtain it, and edit this post. [ http://www.smcs.on.ca/history.htm ]
    If our children learn to be caring, compassionate, independent thinking, responsible and creative adults, my obligations as a parent would have been discharged (and time and money well spent). One other peson said: to be rooted in tradition and to provide them with the wings to soar independently like an eagle.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    What began as a great start has now become firmly entrenched in nepotism. As you correctly pointed out, one sovereign fund is run by the wife and the other the father and there only 2 sovereign funds in the country. Nothing is transparent including the number of citizens the country has.



    Quote Originally Posted by Asychee View Post
    Well said, tat is also why my wife and me decided and opt out of the pressure cooker life in sg for Canada.
    In sg society, where the ex PM is stilll in Power and the son is the current PM and the wife is managing the country $$. The brother in law is in charge of the Police and the other members of the family are in position of power that countrys the various important position in the country. Doesnt the pictures tell the people living in it tat something is not right and u should do something about it to preserve your family as you cant change the society.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    Bro, nothing more satisfying to the soul than raising one's family to take opportunites of a great country and moulding them into individuals with depth and breath.

    Believe me, you kids will acknowledge and be grateful for what your wife and you did in crossing more than half the world, face the challenges of a new country and taking the trouble of picking the best for their future.

    Really good to hear such things.
    Hi Brother [scroobal],
    Thank you for your forthright opinion, which agreed with my philosophy. My wife and decided it would be too much to try to send our children to Mandarin school (which time conflicts with our other Saturday school - my wife's mother tongue), notwithstanding that we (especially me who realized that with the ascendance of PRC) foresee that fluency in Mandarin will be very useful in the near future.
    However, I do agree with you re: fluency in French stands a better chance in working with supranational entities.
    Have a good week.
    There is a frost warning in mid-May for Toronto (overnight low of 2C).

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    HDB Issues

    HDB generally does not allow non-citizens and those who have given up PR in Singapore to hold on to HDB flats. They will however give you time to sell if your appeal fails but the minimum residency requirement will likely hold. Parents who have given up their citizenship but who have dual citizenship kids can use that angle to hold on citing things like the kid can stay there during NS if NS is required.
    Hi Scroobal:

    Touching on the point of HDB flat, I currently hold a HDB flat jointly with my mother. Both me and my mother are citizens. Now, if I were to get an Oz citizneship, surender my Singapore citizenship and withdraw my CPF from Singapore, will I still be able to hold on to the HDB flat jointly ith my mother or would she have to convert it in her name? What then would happen after my mother? Would it automatically go in the names of the siblings? thanks.
    YOU WILL BE MINE IN HELL.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    As you will be renoucing your citizenship for CPF, the HDB guys will be notified. If you don't get anything from HDB, don't do anything.

    If they notify you, then ask for a review to consider status quo. If not have to convert or sell. Passing of an estate has nothing to do with citizenship. If your mother's will names you as the beneficiary, then you inherit the flat. They will give you time to sell it. Would suggest seeing a legal purpose on how best to secure your share in case you convert.

    The language in the rules are such that it shows that it is not black and white.


    Quote Originally Posted by Satan View Post
    Hi Scroobal:

    Touching on the point of HDB flat, I currently hold a HDB flat jointly with my mother. Both me and my mother are citizens. Now, if I were to get an Oz citizneship, surender my Singapore citizenship and withdraw my CPF from Singapore, will I still be able to hold on to the HDB flat jointly ith my mother or would she have to convert it in her name? What then would happen after my mother? Would it automatically go in the names of the siblings? thanks.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Thanks Bro. Appreciate it.
    YOU WILL BE MINE IN HELL.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    This is a copy of reply given to a PM enquiry.

    First priority is to bring him out before he turns 11 and still holds the old passport.

    He can still travel if he is still using the old passport ( don't renew) and has not reached 11. However once 11 has been reached, he can only travel on a foreign passport. If the Singapore passport is renewed, he automatically becomes eligible for NS with no exceptions. Thats the reason why all male passports expire at 11.

    Many destination countries have a qualifying period before citizenship is granted. It may take from 2 to 4 years. During this period, unfortunately no travel until you acquire new citizenship and new passport. You have to prepare your family and relatives for this. Some people go well ahead of 11 yrs of age to avoid this.

    If you remain a PR and not a citizen no deferment will be allowed until 21 for the choice to be made, when it is time for NS registration at 16.5 of age.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    This is a copy of reply given to a PM enquiry.

    First priority is to bring him out before he turns 11 and still holds the old passport.

    He can still travel if he is still using the old passport ( don't renew) and has not reached 11. However once 11 has been reached, he can only travel on a foreign passport. If the Singapore passport is renewed, he automatically becomes eligible for NS with no exceptions. Thats the reason why all male passports expire at 11.

    Many destination countries have a qualifying period before citizenship is granted. It may take from 2 to 4 years. During this period, unfortunately no travel until you acquire new citizenship and new passport. You have to prepare your family and relatives for this. Some people go well ahead of 11 yrs of age to avoid this.

    If you remain a PR and not a citizen no deferment will be allowed until 21 for the choice to be made, when it is time for NS registration at 16.5 of age.
    Not that this matter affects me or us, but I submit that the SG govt is unreasonable to have a policy which makes a passport for a SG male expires at age 11. What if the person applies for a passport at age 10, will the passport expires when the person turns 11.
    If they continue with such a policy, those Singaporeans, with the ability and means, must consider leaving before their children, especially male child(ren), attain the age of ten.
    With respect, SG may lose many of the above average families and children.
    As it pertains to the above, if I was a member of the SG govt, I would prefer to do all I can to retain and keep Singaporeans, rather than to attract FT such as those from PRC and India.
    In about 25 years, Singapore and the mix of Singaporeans will be very different from the SG I knew 25 to 30 years ago. Rather sad, and for this I put the blame on the materialistic, non caring and non socialist SG govt.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Thats exactly what they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie9 View Post
    Not that this matter affects me or us, but I submit that the SG govt is unreasonable to have a policy which makes a passport for a SG male expires at age 11. What if the person applies for a passport at age 10, will the passport expires when the person turns 11.
    The whole thing was built around NS and intially it was to ensure that rich don't skip their NS obligations. Its only recently that they seem to have realised their folly.

    Couple of things seem to indicate a change of attitude
    - dual citizenship issue with cabinet
    - those who have skipped can now call MINDEF directly and find out the penalties and consequences and can come into Singapore to meet with MINDEF Provost without being handcuffed
    - those who crossed 40 years of age, need to face fines only (Melvin Tan came under this program ) After the uproar, not sure what the stand is

    I think this generation of leaders have little vision, no guts to make difficult decision. Just maintain status quo and collect ridiculous salaries.




    If they continue with such a policy, those Singaporeans, with the ability and means, must consider leaving before their children, especially male child(ren), attain the age of ten.
    With respect, SG may lose many of the above average families and children.
    As it pertains to the above, if I was a member of the SG govt, I would prefer to do all I can to retain and keep Singaporeans, rather than to attract FT such as those from PRC and India.
    In about 25 years, Singapore and the mix of Singaporeans will be very different from the SG I knew 25 to 30 years ago. Rather sad, and for this I put the blame on the materialistic, non caring and non socialist SG govt.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    Thats exactly what they do.

    The whole thing was built around NS and intially it was to ensure that rich don't skip their NS obligations. Its only recently that they seem to have realised their folly.

    Couple of things seem to indicate a change of attitude
    - dual citizenship issue with cabinet
    - those who have skipped can now call MINDEF directly and find out the penalties and consequences and can come into Singapore to meet with MINDEF Provost without being handcuffed
    - those who crossed 40 years of age, need to face fines only (Melvin Tan came under this program ) After the uproar, not sure what the stand is

    I think this generation of leaders have little vision, no guts to make difficult decision. Just maintain status quo and collect ridiculous salaries.
    With respect, I am disappointed that for the numerous scholars they have in the cabinet, and the ability and leadership which they claimed to have, and accordingly they claimed that they deserve the multi-million dollar annual compensation, I agree with you, or perhaps, I submit, rather than put words in your mouth, that:
    1. their policies appear to be lacking the multi-dimensional perspective that they ought to be, rather than for example, the passport expiring at age 11 to try to prevent the very rich from sending their sons away to skip NS.
    2. having a vision and/or a perspective of how a probable policy will affect the citizens, and the results and consequences, require an individual to be more than a scholar, because a good politician could be an individual with guts, able to make a difficult (logical, practical and sometimes, balanced)decision based on the information available at that time, rather than complete information.
    3. I will use an example based on my narrow part of the economy: clients / secured creditors / financial institutions pay a Receiver and Manager or their Agent to consider the circumstances and background, identify the alternatives, evaluate the alternatives and risk factors, and recommend an action plan, and thereafter take the necessary steps (may require revisions to the action plan, as the situation unfold) to maximize the recoveries. Not making a recommendation means the individual is inconclusive, and not taking the necessary steps but waiting for more info or whatever means the individual is indecisive.
    4. That is perhaps, one of the major reasons why SG would be better served with a viable and critical opposition in Parliament. It appears that the current MP's are prompt to take credit, but seldom take responsibility for their inaction or poor action.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Period of No Travel

    There has been PM raised on this.

    What to do for Singapore males who leave before the age of 11yr and who have yet to obtain their citizenship of their new country and want to visit Singapore or travel elsewhere.

    As it takes from 2 to 4 years for most migrants to qualify for citizenship, Singapore males who have expired passport are basically unable to travel. Here are some pointers;

    1) Be mentally prepared for this and prepare your relatives and extended family in Singapore. Encourage them to visit. The years tend to pass away really quick.

    2) Do not persuaded by relatives to renew the passports as they are not the ones who will face the NS obligations. Your son/s will appreciate what you have done in the years to come.

    3) I have not come across this but its a possibility as Western Developed countries are more humane. If a grandparent or someone important in the family passes away in Singapore, approach the immigration authorities in your new country and seek out a certificate of identity to allow travel for extentuating circumstances. A certificate of identity is not tied to citizenship but place of domicile. As your PR is valid, this is a strong possibility.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    Period of No Travel

    There has been PM raised on this.

    What to do for Singapore males who leave before the age of 11yr and who have yet to obtain their citizenship of their new country and want to visit Singapore or travel elsewhere.

    As it takes from 2 to 4 years for most migrants to qualify for citizenship, Singapore males who have expired passport are basically unable to travel. Here are some pointers;

    1) Be mentally prepared for this and prepare your relatives and extended family in Singapore. Encourage them to visit. The years tend to pass away really quick.

    2) Do not persuaded by relatives to renew the passports as they are not the ones who will face the NS obligations. Your son/s will appreciate what you have done in the years to come.

    3) I have not come across this but its a possibility as Western Developed countries are more humane. If a grandparent or someone important in the family passes away in Singapore, approach the immigration authorities in your new country and seek out a certificate of identity to allow travel for extentuating circumstances. A certificate of identity is not tied to citizenship but place of domicile. As your PR is valid, this is a strong possibility.
    I have not heard about this matter in Canada, but when I was serving NS, I recall a fellow who was born in India, but a PR or they refer to it as "stateless" in SG. He had to travel for some family matter, and he applied and was issued something similar to a Certificate of Identity, although I am unable to recall the name for it.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Bro, Canada is probably best known country for issuing certificate of identity to PR awaiting citizenship and no longer hold a valid passport of their original country.

    In Singapore it is also called a certificate of identity. Its is for stateless person who are permanent residents holding blue NRIC. IC will indicate stateless. There is another document called UN Convention Travel Document usually meant for certain classes of refugees.


    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie9 View Post
    I have not heard about this matter in Canada, but when I was serving NS, I recall a fellow who was born in India, but a PR or they refer to it as "stateless" in SG. He had to travel for some family matter, and he applied and was issued something similar to a Certificate of Identity, although I am unable to recall the name for it.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Fines imposed for failing to obtain exit permit

    Heard that CMPB is getting tough and now posting notification of fines overseas.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by Hock View Post
    Tks mate. So, S'pore citizenship is not automatic.
    However, if I remember correctly, a male even born overseas is liable for NS if he returns to singapore, if one of his parents is a singaporean.

    I cannot remember if what I read is correct or not. Many years ago liao. Before I left singapore.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie9 View Post
    Not that this matter affects me or us, but I submit that the SG govt is unreasonable to have a policy which makes a passport for a SG male expires at age 11. What if the person applies for a passport at age 10, will the passport expires when the person turns 11.
    If they continue with such a policy, those Singaporeans, with the ability and means, must consider leaving before their children, especially male child(ren), attain the age of ten.
    With respect, SG may lose many of the above average families and children.
    As it pertains to the above, if I was a member of the SG govt, I would prefer to do all I can to retain and keep Singaporeans, rather than to attract FT such as those from PRC and India.
    In about 25 years, Singapore and the mix of Singaporeans will be very different from the SG I knew 25 to 30 years ago. Rather sad, and for this I put the blame on the materialistic, non caring and non socialist SG govt.
    In fact I know many who migrated before age of 11 or served NS and never return for good. Those who go away before 11 never returned, and those who completed their NS never go for reservist after that.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Citizenship is no longer automatic if you are born overseas even when one or both parents are singaporeans. They however have the right to apply for one.

    If not, there will be couple of thousands of Thai, Indonesian, Filipino etc kids that can come over straight away even if the Singaporean parents object.

    Quote Originally Posted by newyorker88 View Post
    However, if I remember correctly, a male even born overseas is liable for NS if he returns to singapore, if one of his parents is a singaporean.

    I cannot remember if what I read is correct or not. Many years ago liao. Before I left singapore.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by scroobal View Post
    Citizenship is no longer automatic if you are born overseas even when one or both parents are singaporeans. They however have the right to apply for one.

    If not, there will be couple of thousands of Thai, Indonesian, Filipino etc kids that can come over straight away even if the Singaporean parents object.
    http://ica.a8hosting.com/data/resour..._%20Rights.pdf

    Think this will help clarify.

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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by livingstone View Post
    Is it true you Saudi Arabians are all bearded jihadis looking to bomb my country? Do you really think you will enter heaven after blowing yourself up?

    Why do you people smell so bad? Why are you camel jockeys?

    Why do you beat your wife?

    Why do you look like a bunch of sand niggers?

    Whooooooooo Heeeeee

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


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    Default Re: Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Prick View Post
    Is it true you Saudi Arabians are all bearded jihadis looking to bomb my country? Do you really think you will enter heaven after blowing yourself up?

    Why do you people smell so bad? Why are you camel jockeys?

    Why do you beat your wife?

    Why do you look like a bunch of sand niggers?

    Whooooooooo Heeeeee

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

    Wow, you actually do that? I don't know much about these things. People who experience them know the most, and can even clearly describe.

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