Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

[khunking]

His British wife will do the autocorrecting. No worries.

Should be "Can someone ADVISE me.....".

"Advice" is a noun.

[LamPaLia]

hi scroobal

can you advise me what i should do..

My family and i left SGP on Nov 2010 , my son is born on 2006 Aug.
Right now we are based in the US and would be getting the Green Card in 30 - 45 days time...
My plan is to decide if me and son should give up our SGP citizenship and take up US citizenship.. which will take 5yrs approx.. for the naturalization process to start.

When must i inform CMPB for my son's NS obligation.. ? at what age based on his BD months. he is 9yrs old this month.
he only has completed 1 yr of Singapore Primary Education and have only been back for 15 days in Mar 2011 / 5 days in Jul 2011.

When do i need to apply exit permit and when do i need to indicate that he wants to renounce his SGP citizenship?
and if i renounced my SGP citizenship, will i loose my HDB flat? My spouse will still remain a SGP citizen.

i am thinking of holding dual citizenship.. as i have read.. there is no law in Singapore that dictates that

thanks for the help and i apologies if the questions are repeated or seem similar..

[citizen2116]

ICA will not allow you to have dual citizenship as it is their policy. you will have to declare it when during renewal time. Likewise, u might want to transfer your share of the HDB to another Sgporean as u need a nucleas to maintain the ownership.

[THE_CHANSTER]

12 years is the cut-off date for exemption from NS for your son. I strongly suggest you contact MINDEF asap to advise them of your personal circumstances.
Your son will need an Exit Permit, if he doesn't have one and tries to return to Singapore during his teenage years, it could get pretty sticky.
Having a Green Card or US Citizenship does not and will not exempt your son from his NS liabilities if he returns to Singapore.

For all the answers to your question, Scoobal is your sage. Wait for his response.

[scroobal]

The forummers and I are happy to help wherever we can and no need to worry about repeating anything.

1) Your son is well within the cut-off age. It is used to 11 and now 12/13 (this has been a moving target)
2) Send an email to CMPB, Mindef when you get your green card and tell them the following
- when you left and that your family have migrated to the US
- they will need a copy of your green card and the passport page showing date of entry to the US / date of green card
- ask all the questions that you need.
- provide your address and contact details as the replies are always in the mail except
3) exit permit is required when your son reaches 13 years of age. Since you provided the contact details they will notify you as reminder
4) the exit permit will allow your son to remain outside until the time for NS registration which is 16.5. Again reminder will be sent
5) No need to provide bond. Some clerk will sometimes might get it wrong but for migrants there is no bond.
6) In the meantime, do not do the following
- renew his passport
- apply for NRIC
- enroll for school in Singapore even if the parents have been posted by the company here etc
- in essence he cannot enjoy the privileges of this state
7) At 16,5, register online for NS, they will send you a form and they will now give your son deferment until the age of 21.
8) By this time, I suppose you guys will be US citizens. Your son is now a dual citizen and no issues as it not illegal.
9) He still cannot renounce his citizenship until he reaches age 21
10) At 21, Mindef will send reminder about 2 month before his 21 birthday and ask him to decide if he wants to keep his Singapore citizenship and if so he must turn up for NS. Or else apply to renounce. If he choses the latter, Mindef will provide contact details on who contact in ICA to renounce, Send email to that person and they will send the relevant forms which is quite tedious to fill. ICA will take 3 months to give the renounciation letter which must then be furnished to Mindef
11) During all these years, he can visit Singapore with no issues.

There is gap between the expired Singapore passport and getting the US passport after naturalisation. Do no renew the Singapore passport. Ask your relatives to fly to the US or a nearby country to meet. For family emergencies, Green card holders can apply to the US authorities for a travel paper which are temporary which are used for such purposes and for those who are stateless.

Enjoy your new life in a great new world. Very best to the family and you.

hi scroobal

can you advise me what i should do..

My family and i left SGP on Nov 2010 , my son is born on 2006 Aug.
Right now we are based in the US and would be getting the Green Card in 30 - 45 days time...
My plan is to decide if me and son should give up our SGP citizenship and take up US citizenship.. which will take 5yrs approx.. for the naturalization process to start.

When must i inform CMPB for my son's NS obligation.. ? at what age based on his BD months. he is 9yrs old this month.
he only has completed 1 yr of Singapore Primary Education and have only been back for 15 days in Mar 2011 / 5 days in Jul 2011.

When do i need to apply exit permit and when do i need to indicate that he wants to renounce his SGP citizenship?
and if i renounced my SGP citizenship, will i loose my HDB flat? My spouse will still remain a SGP citizen.

i am thinking of holding dual citizenship.. as i have read.. there is no law in Singapore that dictates that

thanks for the help and i apologies if the questions are repeated or seem similar..

[neddy]

The forummers and I are happy to help wherever we can and no need to worry about repeating anything.

1) Your son is well within the cut-off age. It is used to 11 and now 12/13 (this has been a moving target)

Really thankful that we have forummers here to answer questions regarding NS and immigration. Esp with the laws so secretive no wonder Singaporeans are so timid to their foreign invaders in their own country.

This is what I thought of the Singapore govt >

Even the Chinese govt do a better advising their own people on how to settle down in other countries. This go beyond the Laws advising them on how to behave overseas. Eg do not pick flowers or bring back the ducks from the parks to make dinner.

Eg. There are handbooks listing how Perth works, how it is like to live in Perth compared to Australia as a whole, all the services and contacts on how to seek assistance and the common English words to use if they are not confident in speaking in English.

There is even a section on mental health, explaining that loneliness may set in because of the small Chinese community here and the geographical distance, etc. How they should make friends, do meaningful work, etc

What do we expect from the Singapore govt or high commission ? This >

[longdongsilver]

His British wife will do the autocorrecting. No worries.

some one who is British doesnt mean he/she is a native england speaker..but then again a native speaker may not know better..thats why angmoh native speakers always screw up on There/their,sought after/sort after,you're/your, where to place the apostrophes,etc

[Aussie Prick]

Really thankful that we have forummers here to answer questions regarding NS and immigration. Esp with the laws so secretive no wonder Singaporeans are so timid to their foreign invaders in their own country.

This is what I thought of the Singapore govt >

Even the Chinese govt do a better advising their own people on how to settle down in other countries. This go beyond the Laws advising them on how to behave overseas. Eg do not pick flowers or bring back the ducks from the parks to make dinner.

Eg. There are handbooks listing how Perth works, how it is like to live in Perth compared to Australia as a whole, all the services and contacts on how to seek assistance and the common English words to use if they are not confident in speaking in English.

There is even a section on mental health, explaining that loneliness may set in because of the small Chinese community here and the geographical distance, etc. How they should make friends, do meaningful work, etc

What do we expect from the Singapore govt or high commission ? This >

If you want bad service, visit any Singapore Embassy worldwide. Have horror stories from the ones on San Francisco and London for you.

[eatshitndie]

If you want bad service, visit any Singapore Embassy worldwide. Have horror stories from the ones on San Francisco and London for you.

there is no sg embassy in san francisco.

[Aussie Prick]

there is no sg embassy in san francisco.

Yes there is its right off mission. Been there a few years ago did it close? or do you mean its a consulate not an embasy? God how nit picky

[eatshitndie]

Yes there is its right off mission. Been there a few years ago did it close? or do you mean its a consulate not an embasy? God how nit picky

embassy is in d.c. there's only one embassy, but many consulates.

[roadrunner]

I have a question for the resident sages here.. how easy is it for someone who has given up SG citizenship, gone to a new country, taken up new citizenship there & later want to go back to SG & be citizen again? I'm curious becos those who want to have dual citizenship have to siam here, siam there just to be able to go back see family & especially when there's a kid & NS involved.

[eatshitndie]

I have a question for the resident sages here.. how easy is it for someone who has given up SG citizenship, gone to a new country, taken up new citizenship there & later want to go back to SG & be citizen again? I'm curious becos those who want to have dual citizenship have to siam here, siam there just to be able to go back see family & especially when there's a kid & NS involved.

you need to apply for pr first. and you need to replenish any cpf savings that is withdrawn in the pr application process. was asked nicely to become a pr, but declined when they confirmed the cpf replenishment policy for returning ex sinkies only. it's on the ica site.

[nayr69sg]

It would be nice if they had a system where you choose not to withdraw CPF, renounce citizenship and "convert" to be come Singapore PR.

Just curious though, do Singapore PRships expire? Is there a minimum residency period required to renew?

[eatshitndie]

It would be nice if they had a system where you choose not to withdraw CPF, renounce citizenship and "convert" to be come Singapore PR.

Just curious though, do Singapore PRships expire? Is there a minimum residency period required to renew?

there's no mandate that you must withdraw your cpf after you renounce sg citizenship. you can leave it there and earn a pittance in interest earnings.

spr lasts as long as you wish to be a pr of sg. there's no renewal that i know of, unless you forgo your spr and then re-apply again. they allow you to re-apply, but they will take a looooong time to grant you a new pr. from spr to sg citizenship, it takes at least 2 years.

btw, they call it "reinstatement" of cpf (and interest) if you're ex sinkie and apply for spr, and if you give up spr and re-apply for spr again.

[roadrunner]

wah lan oi.. they really knows how to make life difficult, i wonder how many people migrate to JB/Malaysia & just come over to enjoy SG & see family & friends.. i mean for those who are at retirement age & have money saved away. Those who have even more money will go to Tier1 countries. For those who are thinking of leaving SG.. i guess this policy means once you run road, you dun bother coming back. Imagine the situation where many Singaporeans leave & gahmen have to increase the population with "below par" FTs & PRs.. i'm talking much worst than what is happening now. On the other hand, from the view point of any "below par/sub standard" FTs/PRs going to SG, it's good news for them as it's a step forward. The world revolves, the cycle continues.. only those who left behind in SG kena Jialat, Jialat..

lets face it, SG is just a transit hub, you arrive, get serviced & move on.. all within a few generations i guess. Those who do it within 1 generation i guess you can say they're using SG as a stepping stone to a better life elsewhere. The gahmen dun look too keen on preserving cultural heritage so apart from making money, what else is there that ties people down, in life you need more than just making money, you need to feel at home, if people are not feeling welcome at home they will go.

you need to apply for pr first. and you need to replenish any cpf savings that is withdrawn in the pr application process. was asked nicely to become a pr, but declined when they confirmed the cpf replenishment policy for returning ex sinkies only. it's on the ica site.

[po2wq]

It would be nice if they had a system where you choose not to withdraw CPF, renounce citizenship and "convert" to be come Singapore PR.

Just curious though, do Singapore PRships expire? Is there a minimum residency period required to renew?

... spr lasts as long as you wish to be a pr of sg. there's no renewal that i know of, unless you forgo your spr and then re-apply again. they allow you to re-apply, but they will take a looooong time to grant you a new pr ...

btw, they call it "reinstatement" of cpf (and interest) if you're ex sinkie and apply for spr, and if you give up spr and re-apply for spr again.

dey gif u tis re-entry permit, which lasts 4 5 or 10 yrs ... if u dun renew ur re-entry permit, den dey can consider ur pr has lapse ...

if u 4go ur pr n re-apply, not a big prob 1 la ...

if u wanna get pr, if u r below 55 now, apply after 55 la ... lidat u nid oni put back half ur cpf ...

[eatshitndie]

dey gif u tis re-entry permit, which lasts 4 5 or 10 yrs ... if u dun renew ur re-entry permit, den dey can consider ur pr has lapse ...

if u 4go ur pr n re-apply, not a big prob 1 la ...

if u wanna get pr, if u r below 55 now, apply after 55 la ... lidat u nid oni put back half ur cpf ...

yes, if an spr were to travel out of sg, an rep is required. sgd50 per 5-yr rep. if the spr is still away from sg, and the rep has lapsed or become invalid, the spr may lose the pr, as he she cannot get back in as a pr anymore. but he she can re-apply for pr if that is the case.

if the spr is in sg and rep has expired, the spr does not lose pr status.

for applicants over 50 let alone 55, unless you're so special, grants are not so easy to get. for older folks, it may be easier going thru' adult children who are applying for spr.

[LamPaLia]

thanks scroobal

we just received our green cards 1 week back and indicates we are PR since Aug 11, 2012... this is beginning of a new journey....i read up looks like the naturalization process will take us about 3-4 yrs to archive...

[scroobal]

BroCongratulations and best wishes to your family and you for the journey ahead. Remember to give 2 years to settle down in the land of milk and honey. From what I hear, the hardest part is to apply. You cleared the big hurdle.

thanks scroobalwe just received our green cards 1 week back and indicates we are PR since Aug 11, 2012... this is beginning of a new journey....i read up looks like the naturalization process will take us about 3-4 yrs to archive...