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Thread: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Lol wtf...you are the contributer according to the source

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    Another plagiarization, and yet again with pics. LOL. can sue for copyright infringement or not?

    http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/ea...x-5545197.html
    The edmw one got credit this forum as the source whereas the ASS one credit you as the source... You beget come down

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    congrats pap. Your post got plagurized and posted on edmw but you were not credited for it.

    http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/ea...x-5545197.html

    Quote Originally Posted by IndianChief View Post


    When Minister Ng revealed on his Facebook account that he would have some announcement in Parliament on the 2 month long Terrex saga, I looked forward to some progress or at least a constructive update. Instead, the whole country was treated a comedy stand up routine by him in Parliament. One does not know whether to cry or laugh at his statement, and the fact that he actually thinks that the public will buy it and that his statement passes for even a modicum of muster.

    Lesson # 1


    The PAP has no clue. No clue whatsoever. The concept of international diplomacy is apparent foreign to them. Minister Ng is still vigorously working the legal angle when the whole world can see that itís a political matter. The naivete of the PAP is astounding. He states that the Govt. was advised by its lawyers that the seizure was illegal and violated even Hong Kongís law. Does he seriously expect any lawyers employed by the Govt. to say anything else? Hiring your own lawyer to tell you that you are right and that Hong Kong is wrong is akin to masturbation. Now, if Minister Ng has a legal opinion from a world court like the international court of justice in The Hague, or from leading legal eagles in Hong Kong and China, then that would be different. But he does not have said endorsements nor was he able to get them. In fact, in the 2 months since the seizures, no independent 3rd party legal entity has denounced the seizures as illegal.

    That tells what the Govtís lawyersí opinions are worth. You will notice in Minister Ngís speech that there is no contingency plan at all. There is mention of the legal aspect and there is mention of the Hong Kong authorities doing their investigations. But what if it goes against Singapore? What is Ngís back up plan in case Hong Kong does not return them? It seems they are so clueless they have no idea how to proceed if the answer is no.


    Lesson # 2


    The PAPís cavalier and lackadaisical attitude on this matter is extremely troubling. After losing tens of millions of dollars of taxpayer funded military vehicles, as well as a sizeable chunk of the SAF combat capability, the PAP is hardly in a hurry to recover them, nor is there any sense of urgency. The PAP seems to be taking a very passive wait and see attitude. Minister Ng has mentioned in his Parliament announcement ďthat the country has informed Hong Kong a couple of times over the last two months that the vehicles belong to the Singapore GovernmentĒ. A couple of times over 2 month? You mean once a month on average? Are you kidding? Thatís all? What happened to being on the phone with them every day to chase them for the return? And when the Hong Kong authorities brushed them off, ďHe said that the Hong Kong authorities have responded that the investigation is ongoing and will take some time to complete, noting that the Hong Kong government will handle the matter in accordance with their laws ď, Minister Ng just meekly said ďOkĒ. What happened to formal protests, in fact, several of them? What happened to sending multiple delegations to Beijing and Hong Kong to request for their return?

    Certainly, there must be a 1000 ways to exert much more pressure on Hong Kong and China. And Lee Hsien Loong wrote a letter to Leung Chun Ying? Seriously? That must have scared the bejesus out of Hong Kong. Is Lee Hsien Loong adverse to picking up a phone and personally call the Hong Kong Chief Executive himself? Does he feel that as a natural aristocrat, this is below his station in life to make a call? We are paying this PM millions of $ a year, and he cannot pick up a phone? Is he afraid his Cantonese is not good enough? His wife could have translated for him, I am sure. Or how about summoning the Chinese ambassador to the Istana and giving him a dressing down? I donít see this relaxed attitude when it comes to Amos, Roy and other opposition members.


    Lesson # 3


    We have absolutely no relationships with our major trading partners. We used to have a lot of them when LKY was the PM. LKY had a close and personal relationship with Chiang Ching Kuo of Taiwan and Deng Xiaopeng of China. If this incident had happened on LKYís watch, he would have picked up a phone and called Deng, and this issue would go away. For all his faults, LKY got along with many world leaders, counting them as personal friends, with perhaps the exception of Mahathir. But apparently, there is no one in the PAP or Singapore govt that knows anyone in China or Hong Kong. What happened to the sizeable presence of EDB in Hong Kong and Temasek Holdings in China? After pumping billions of $ into China GLC banks and companies, does Ho Ching not know even one influential and high place govt. official? No one at all that could act as an intermediary or informal arbitrator? I mean George Yeo, former Minister for FA is in Hong Kong for crying out loud. Its is painfully clear that LHL has failed to cultivate these relations with our neighbouring countries.

    When Suharto was alive, LKY was a close friend and even flew to Jakarta to visit him at his deathbed. Do you think the Indonesians would ever dare to name 2 warships after terrorists who attacked Singapore while Suharto was alive? Despite being personally trained by his father for years, LHL does not seem to have cultivated the same sort of informal and personally relationships with world leaders. Or perhaps he did not bother to maintain these relationships that his father assiduously cultivated. Is it his personality? Is he an introvert at heart and socially awkward? Or is he so arrogant he does not care to know them? Whatever the reason, this is now coming back to bite us.

    Since 2010, we have had 3 Foreign Ministers. George Yeo, Shanmugan, and Vivian Balakrishnan, the last 2 were completely ill suited for the job because one was a lawyer and the other an eye doctor. By contrast, Singaporeís best foreign minister, S Rajaratnam, served in his post for 15 years from 1965 to 1980. Itís not possible to form good relationships with your counterparts from other countries when you have been in the post for such a short time and especially when your background is not in diplomacy. This Terrex incident is all about relationships. China would have given face to us and let the Terrex pass if we had good relations with her. The failure of LHL to understand this simple concept is unfathomable. How is it possible that Donald Trump, who is not yet POTUS, is able to develop a positive relationship with Putin even before taking office, and LHL is not able to develop anything years after taking office?


    Lesson # 4


    We have lost all our friends. How it happened, I have no idea. After doing a favour for Obama and the US, LHL criticized China over the South China Sea. Now that we have lost the Terrex, I donít see Obama denouncing the seizure of these vehicles, and helping us out with some international condemnation. What about Taiwan? The vehicles came from there, and got knows, the Chinese are already mad at the Taiwanese. It couldnít hurt the Taiwanese anymore if they showed support for one of their very few military allies in the world. Yet nothing heard from them. What about all these South East Asian countries with claims in the South China Sea, and for whom Singapore spoke up for when they criticized china. Where are they now? The real killer is China itself. After taking in 1 million of their citizens and giving them jobs, clean air and sanitary living conditions and in many cases free education, the country has turned around and done this to us. Secretly, all these countries are happy to see us get our comeuppance. Not one other country anywhere in the world has denounced or criticize the seizures. The whole thing came about because we helped out some other country. Did the US con LHL into making those statements critical of the Chinese?

    Lesson # 5

    And this is the most terrifying lesson of all. We are now a defacto vassal state of China. The PAP has allowed us to be in this ridiculously untenable situation. We have allowed in 1 million Chinese and have put them into all sectors of our economy. From banking, to bus drivers, MRT staff, hospital doctors and nurses, etc. We cannot even retaliate against China by kicking them out of the country, because that would bring our economy to a screeching halt. At the same time, billions of our money is tied up in China, through Temasek and other GLC and private Singapore companies investments there. Any retaliation against China could have heavy financial consequences for us. The bald truth is they have us by the short hairs. There is nothing that we dare do accept throw verbal insults at them. Once the Chinese can clearly see that the PAP will not do anything drastic and will let hte 9 Terrex ride off into a Chinese sunset, they will be testing us in other ways too. They might as well annex us and turn us into the next Province. This is actually the worse threat to our national security. Not the threat of terrorism (all the terrorist activities in the singapore in the last 50 years) have not resulted in the lost of 9 military vehicles.

    This is not a theoretical threat to out security. This is real, with real military hardware lost. We have to bite our tongue and go away empty handed. This is a form of subjugation and domination that China is exercising on us, make no mistake about it. And all brought to us by courtesy of poor PAP economic and political decisions. The PAP is the greatest threat to SIngapore national security not ISIS or AL Queda. The scary thing is bad as the current leadership is, the next gen of PAP leaders might be even worse.

    Source: Sam's Alfresco Coffee Shop

  4. #24
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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    hahahha yes, story of my life. Not enough credit when its due.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    ASS copies others postings and then say they are ASS contibutors like they write in to ASS.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Jah_rastafar_I View Post
    ASS copies others postings and then say they are ASS contibutors like they write in to ASS.
    Yes, I am seeing that now.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    hahahha yes, story of my life. Not enough credit when its due.
    Well I do give you due credit for your insightful & well-reasoned account. The PAP has only themselves to blame for being lame, impotent, incompetent, clueless, amateurish, scared & unsure of how to respond positively. All they did was the equivalent of wringing their hands in despair! Why no comments from our many scholar generals holding high positions in government? Why is our lamenting & complaining Emeritus Wooden Senior Minister so tongue-tied? Why is our so clever Law Minister so quiet? Why is our Ms Vivian so sure about not politicising the issue? Defies belief that these highly paid leaders cannot bring back 9 Terrexes through simple humility & quiet diplomacy! Instead these clueless clowns aggravated the situation by insisting that they are right under the law & therefore that HK & by necessary implication PRC are wrong & acting unlawfully in detaining the Terrexes. Its the height of stupidity indeed. No surprises then if PRC & HK hardened their positions. In the meantime the PAP continues to squirm & looks stupid in Asean,Asia & in fact the whole wide world. Papsmearer's lessons are well-structured & well-grounded. PAP has lost so much face & credibility & will continue to be the world's laughing stock for a long time to come. Take heed & be humble & contrite.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by KuanTi01 View Post
    Well I do give you due credit for your insightful & well-reasoned account. The PAP has only themselves to blame for being lame, impotent, incompetent, clueless, amateurish, scared & unsure of how to respond positively. All they did was the equivalent of wringing their hands in despair! Why no comments from our many scholar generals holding high positions in government? Why is our lamenting & complaining Emeritus Wooden Senior Minister so tongue-tied? Why is our so clever Law Minister so quiet? Why is our Ms Vivian so sure about not politicising the issue? Defies belief that these highly paid leaders cannot bring back 9 Terrexes through simple humility & quiet diplomacy! Instead these clueless clowns aggravated the situation by insisting that they are right under the law & therefore that HK & by necessary implication PRC are wrong & acting unlawfully in detaining the Terrexes. Its the height of stupidity indeed. No surprises then if PRC & HK hardened their positions. In the meantime the PAP continues to squirm & looks stupid in Asean,Asia & in fact the whole wide world. Papsmearer's lessons are well-structured & well-grounded. PAP has lost so much face & credibility & will continue to be the world's laughing stock for a long time to come. Take heed & be humble & contrite.
    Thank you for saying so. have you considered the following? Not that it is a surprise or shock to me anymore.

    But where is the oppo on this? This is a fantastic opportunity for them to make hay while the sun shines. From day one, they have to been whacking the PAP left right and centre on this seizure. WP has been very very quiet, not even grilling Bargain Hen when he made his parliament speech. They should have been relentless in their criticizing of the PAP. At least SDP has a small blurt on their website, but still, they could have been whacking the PAP more too. There is nothing from the reform party, Singfirst, etc. What the hell is wrong with this people and as I have said before, this really proves the WP is the fake oppo.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    oppo posting crap and fake news, like copious threads on trump and that thread on eldershield.
    6.9 k's of sinkies: kopi, kaya toast, kueh kueh, kio kway, ktv, kpkb.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by eatshitndie View Post
    oppo posting crap and fake news, like copious threads on trump and that thread on eldershield.
    which one of our esteemed forumners are u referring to?

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    there will always be conflicting calls on the oppo.

    if they keep quiet on most matters, and struggle to maintain their jobs which is made difficult, pp say they are useless.

    if they keep an eye on the govt, pp will say they are trying to destroy the country and have no policies.

    pretty tough job.

    sinkies do not understand the need for checks - they believe in ownself check ownself (that the govt will). most importantly oppo have no marnee.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    which one of our esteemed forumners are u referring to?
    frozen tundra winnipeg and broken record ckmpd.
    6.9 k's of sinkies: kopi, kaya toast, kueh kueh, kio kway, ktv, kpkb.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by in3deep View Post
    Lol wtf...you are the contributer according to the source

    Yeah,
    But I never go on that site. Also, u notice that the contributor is PAP Smear. That is just trying to copy my nick of PAPsmearer.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by retrenched View Post
    there will always be conflicting calls on the oppo.

    if they keep quiet on most matters, and struggle to maintain their jobs which is made difficult, pp say they are useless.

    if they keep an eye on the govt, pp will say they are trying to destroy the country and have no policies.

    pretty tough job.

    sinkies do not understand the need for checks - they believe in ownself check ownself (that the govt will). most importantly oppo have no marnee.
    This whole forum is based on the need for checks and direct criticism of the PAP even if the oppo does not do it. So, at least 30% don't agree with you.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    Thank you for saying so. have you considered the following? Not that it is a surprise or shock to me anymore.

    But where is the oppo on this? This is a fantastic opportunity for them to make hay while the sun shines. From day one, they have to been whacking the PAP left right and centre on this seizure. WP has been very very quiet, not even grilling Bargain Hen when he made his parliament speech. They should have been relentless in their criticizing of the PAP. At least SDP has a small blurt on their website, but still, they could have been whacking the PAP more too. There is nothing from the reform party, Singfirst, etc. What the hell is wrong with this people and as I have said before, this really proves the WP is the fake oppo.
    At times like this, I sorely miss our dear and irreplaceable JB Jeyaretnam, deceased. Too bad alive and kicking Dr Chee was not voted into Parliament and I don't need to say why. There is only so much he can do outside of Parliament. As for those oppo MPs and NCMPs, they have the chance to query and probe vigorously as Parliamentarians but alas, they have chickened out! My humble 2 cents' worth! But then Singapore is nothing but an authoritarian aristocracy; a pseudo democracy! So far, the opposition is but mere tokenism!

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by KuanTi01 View Post
    At times like this, I sorely miss our dear and irreplaceable JB Jeyaretnam, deceased. Too bad alive and kicking Dr Chee was not voted into Parliament and I don't need to say why. There is only so much he can do outside of Parliament. As for those oppo MPs and NCMPs, they have the chance to query and probe vigorously as Parliamentarians but alas, they have chickened out! My humble 2 cents' worth! But then Singapore is nothing but an authoritarian aristocracy; a pseudo democracy! So far, the opposition is but mere tokenism!
    Well, if you are in parliament, whether as an oppo MP or a NCMP, you are immune from any form of punishment due to parliamentary privilege. I don't know why they are so scared. I mean the PAP can intimidate you outside of Parliament, harass your employer, etc. But then you whack them even harder in Parliament. There are so many targets. Every crisis is an opportunity, every slip up by the PAP is an opportunity. By being so pliant and meek, no one wants to vote for them.
    Last edited by Papsmearer; 13-01-2017 at 05:36 AM.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by KuanTi01 View Post
    At times like this, I sorely miss our dear and irreplaceable JB Jeyaretnam, deceased.
    Yes, he would refuse to talk to the pappy mps even during parliamentary breaks, preferring to stand by himself with the teapot stance.

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by KuanTi01 View Post
    At times like this, I sorely miss our dear and irreplaceable JB Jeyaretnam, deceased. Too bad alive and kicking Dr Chee was not voted into Parliament and I don't need to say why. There is only so much he can do outside of Parliament. As for those oppo MPs and NCMPs, they have the chance to query and probe vigorously as Parliamentarians but alas, they have chickened out! My humble 2 cents' worth! But then Singapore is nothing but an authoritarian aristocracy; a pseudo democracy! So far, the opposition is but mere tokenism!
    To me, Jeyaratnam was a national hero. Stupid sinkies don't realize how much he sacrificed.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    Yeah,
    But I never go on that site. Also, u notice that the contributor is PAP Smear. That is just trying to copy my nick of PAPsmearer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    hahahha yes, story of my life. Not enough credit when its due.
    knn, why these fuckers steal other people's thunder and never heard of "give to caesar what belongs to caesar"

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    Default Re: The terrifying lessons from the PAPís handling of the confiscated Terrex

    after so many days, HK chief exec Leung give pinkie no fark.. never reply to his request. lolz

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