Serious PLA Colonel laughing at SAF Terrex technology 17 years behind PRC junks!

SeeFartLoong · Dec 5, 2016

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/china/2...od=g&loc=35&r=15&doct=0&rfunc=100&tj=none&s=0

我大校评新加坡战车：这样水平能给你配出一个车族
2016年12月04日 09:39 央视
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　　近日，香港海关查扣新加坡装甲车一事成为军事界的热点话题，央视节目也在讨论此事件。主持人称，有些媒体认为“中国会借机窃取新加坡战车的技术”，就此请解放军大校房兵评判。

　　大校表示，别说近年大阅兵，就是99年大阅兵的解放军装甲都是成“车族化”的亮相。

　　房兵还表示，今年珠海航展上，8X8轮式战车高中低端全有，“你只要提出要求来，我就能给你配出一套”。“不像新加坡，为了研制个轮式战车还要去跟英国公司寻求合作。”“说句不好听的，你当时没到我这来，到我这来你会发现物美价廉，比欧美的东西好得多。”
央视主持人讨论新加坡战车事件央视主持人讨论新加坡战车事件

央视主持人讨论新加坡战车事件央视主持人讨论新加坡战车事件

房兵犀利回答主持人疑问房兵犀利回答主持人疑问

Basically he told TV Audience that at the SAF Terrex level PRC's junk yards' parts can assemble entire series.

retrenched · Dec 5, 2016

every thing "hi tech" sg has is bought from somewhere else, which makes it not so hi tech.

there is a least a dozen 8x8 on the market now, and the us marines never go for hi tech things. the other contender is also not popular internationally.

too bad this wayanging by saf makes many sinkies want to invade msia, indon etc. it makes lhl talk very big too.

ckmpd · Dec 5, 2016

retrenched said:
every thing "hi tech" sg has is bought from somewhere else, which makes it not so hi tech.

there is a least a dozen 8x8 on the market now, and the us marines never go for hi tech things. the other contender is also not popular internationally.

too bad this wayanging by saf makes many sinkies want to invade msia, indon etc. it makes lhl talk very big too.

PAP keeps repeating lies to the extent that it begins to believe its own lies.

Some lies pap spouts are:
1. Singapore is No 1
2. PAP is clean (how abt Wee Toon Boon, Teh Cheang Wan, David Ong, Michael Palmer?)
3. PAP MPs are the best
4. PAP Ministers deserve their $Million salaries
5. Singaporeans are lazy and dont want to work
6. Foreigners are best
7. Singapore belongs to everyone
8. NS is a privilege given only to Singaporeans
9. Terrex is high tech and is a secret

Pinkieslut · Dec 5, 2016

retrenched said:
every thing "hi tech" sg has is bought from somewhere else, which makes it not so hi tech.

there is a least a dozen 8x8 on the market now, and the us marines never go for hi tech things. the other contender is also not popular internationally.

too bad this wayanging by saf makes many sinkies want to invade msia, indon etc. it makes lhl talk very big too.

Do you know all our "innovation" are rubbish? Do you know it is just assembly of stuff from foreign vendors or suppliers, put on packaging and marketing spin?

Just look at everything Sinkie has done. Smart Nation? Cybersecurity? Medical tourism?

Do you seriously see any real intellectual property coming out from all these nonsense?

So much crapola that even such innovations have to be managed by 2nd rate Angmo and Indian "talents".

Just look at our SGX Catalist board. Without fail all rubbish companies running on old fashioned business models with no competitive advantage except using the term "Sinkie management expertise" resting on aged old assumptions that our Mat neighbouring countries are unevolved or plainly corrupt, lazy and stupid.

Papsmearer · Dec 5, 2016

But this is a Taiwanese TV show, why is a PLA colonel on it?

Bigfuck · Dec 5, 2016

Papsmearer said:
But this is a Taiwanese TV show, why is a PLA colonel on it?

Your eye got lan sai. CCTV is Taiwanese TV show? The charbo is Cheena charbo

batman1 · Dec 5, 2016

If I am not wrong,CCTV = China Central TV.

johnny333 · Dec 5, 2016

Spore has a long history of acquiring arms from overseas e.g. M16 from Colt, artillery & mortars from Soltam, jets from the americans.

Whatever they make locally is to eliminate the cost of licensing fees & not to have a better product. Chartered Industries was accused by Colt for not paying the licensing fees for the M16 rifles. That is why Mindef/PAP/LKY looked at producing their own SAR80 & eventually SAR 21.

With the reputation for being cheap I would be surprised that anyone thinks that Spore is developing & manufacturing state of the art weapons :biggrin:

Boliao · Dec 5, 2016

Papsmearer said:
But this is a Taiwanese TV show, why is a PLA colonel on it?

Taiwan/ Hong Kong uses Traditional Chinese while China/ Singapore uses Simplified Chinese. Hong Kong is easy to tell since they have a bunch of words to match their dialects but it should extremely easy to tell between ROC and PRC. I'm surprised that there are still so many people who are confused by this - even PRC who confuse Taiwanese with Singaporeans.

mojito · Dec 5, 2016

johnny333 said:
Spore has a long history of acquiring arms from overseas e.g. M16 from Colt, artillery & mortars from Soltam, jets from the americans.

Whatever they make locally is to eliminate the cost of licensing fees & not to have a better product. Chartered Industries was accused by Colt for not paying the licensing fees for the M16 rifles. That is why Mindef/PAP/LKY looked at producing their own SAR80 & eventually SAR 21.

With the reputation for being cheap I would be surprised that anyone thinks that Spore is developing & manufacturing state of the art weapons

That Laoya SAR21 a single shot rifle! Imagine fibua and trench clearing by squeezing the trigger repeatedly! They trying to get us killed! :mad:

Boliao · Dec 5, 2016

johnny333 said:
Spore has a long history of acquiring arms from overseas e.g. M16 from Colt, artillery & mortars from Soltam, jets from the americans.

Whatever they make locally is to eliminate the cost of licensing fees & not to have a better product. Chartered Industries was accused by Colt for not paying the licensing fees for the M16 rifles. That is why Mindef/PAP/LKY looked at producing their own SAR80 & eventually SAR 21.

With the reputation for being cheap I would be surprised that anyone thinks that Spore is developing & manufacturing state of the art weapons

Not completely accurate. The PRC colonel may be right but he is completely ignorant for saying PRC can replicate any combat configuration. The hardware is just a small part of the equipment but the software technology makes a world of difference. Just like China can be huge and full of potentials but it will never be the world leading economy because nobody trust China. Their reputation for being capable of the world's worst crime just for monetary gains mean the RMB will never be the world currency like the USD; maybe in another 80 years. Their people have the body but not the soul.

SAF has been buying 1-2 and then manufacturing the hardware for ages. Our ships are great examples - we buy two and then make four more according to the blue prints. However, the military equipment inside is completely purchased from overseas. You can put PRC and Singapore Terrex and they will looked exactly the same but on the battle ground, the equipment and the people will make the difference.

mojito · Dec 5, 2016

Boliao said:
Not completely accurate. The PRC colonel may be right but he is completely ignorant for saying PRC can replicate any combat configuration. The hardware is just a small part of the equipment but the software technology makes a world of difference. Just like China can be huge and full of potentials but it will never be the world leading economy because nobody trust China. Their reputation for being capable of the world's worst crime just for monetary gains mean the RMB will never be the world currency like the USD; maybe in another 80 years. Their people have the body but not the soul.

SAF has been buying 1-2 and then manufacturing the hardware for ages. Our ships are great examples - we buy two and then make four more according to the blue prints. However, the military equipment inside is completely purchased from overseas. You can put PRC and Singapore Terrex and they will looked exactly the same but on the battle ground, the equipment and the people will make the difference.

Oh yea? Explain why SAR 21 is unable to switch to full auto? :rolleyes:

What good is it in an assault? :confused:

Papsmearer · Dec 5, 2016

mojito said:
That Laoya SAR21 a single shot rifle! Imagine fibua and trench clearing by squeezing the trigger repeatedly! They trying to get us killed!

Don't be a fucking retard lah, even St Engineering is not that stupid. Who designs a modern assault rifle without full auto? If you look at the SAR-21 at the back of the rifle near the end of it where the back pad is, there is a small circular round pin. Its on the lower half of the rifle. Its about the size of a 5 cent coin. You push it to the left and its full auto. to the right is semi auto.

Papsmearer · Dec 5, 2016

Bigfuck said:
Your eye got lan sai. CCTV is Taiwanese TV show? The charbo is Cheena charbo

My chinese is half past six, I don't understand what he is saying. All i see is the the Taiwan 101 building in the background, so i presume its in Taipei.

Papsmearer · Dec 5, 2016

Boliao said:
Not completely accurate. The PRC colonel may be right but he is completely ignorant for saying PRC can replicate any combat configuration. The hardware is just a small part of the equipment but the software technology makes a world of difference. Just like China can be huge and full of potentials but it will never be the world leading economy because nobody trust China. Their reputation for being capable of the world's worst crime just for monetary gains mean the RMB will never be the world currency like the USD; maybe in another 80 years. Their people have the body but not the soul.

SAF has been buying 1-2 and then manufacturing the hardware for ages. Our ships are great examples - we buy two and then make four more according to the blue prints. However, the military equipment inside is completely purchased from overseas. You can put PRC and Singapore Terrex and they will looked exactly the same but on the battle ground, the equipment and the people will make the difference.

I have already mentioned the sensitive parts of the Terrex in the first post. The vehicle itself has been in production for 10 years now. So, many items on it are 10 years old and not necessarily state of the art. But what is constantly updated is the software in the battlefield management system and in the frequency hopping SINCGARS radio sets. The remote turret system and its its stabilization and aiming hardware and software are also of interest to them.

maxsanic · Dec 5, 2016

Boliao said:
Not completely accurate. The PRC colonel may be right but he is completely ignorant for saying PRC can replicate any combat configuration. The hardware is just a small part of the equipment but the software technology makes a world of difference.

I keep hearing this claim by many ex-Armor NS man in the office as well. Can anyone explain to me precisely what is so unique about the software system in the Terrex?

I'm not an armored vehicle expert, but browsing through various military sites and forums, it seems there are many models of such vehicles out there in the market with roughly the same configuration. Even things like RWS seem be very prevalent and mature technology with many platforms competing in the market.

I'm not putting down the Terrex - I'm sure it has a few advantages and selling points to compete for contracts, just that I keep hearing claims that seem to imply Terrex software or internal tech is some sort of highly classified cutting edge world class technology not seen anywhere else. I don't know if it's real or just old uncle reservists letting national patriotism and combat unit pride get the better of them.

3_M · Dec 5, 2016

The only more sensitive thing is the BMS. Armour wise don't think it possible to reserve engineer as far as material science is concerns as the composite materials as well as the forging process can't be copied just by stripping the terrex down.

Papsmearer · Dec 5, 2016

maxsanic said:
I keep hearing this claim by many ex-Armor NS man in the office as well. Can anyone explain to me precisely what is so unique about the software system in the Terrex?

I'm not an armored vehicle expert, but browsing through various military sites and forums, it seems there are many models of such vehicles out there in the market with roughly the same configuration. Even things like RWS seem be very prevalent and mature technology with many platforms competing in the market.

I'm not putting down the Terrex - I'm sure it has a few advantages and selling points to compete for contracts, just that I keep hearing claims that seem to imply Terrex software or internal tech is some sort of highly classified cutting edge world class technology not seen anywhere else. I don't know if it's real or just old uncle reservists letting national patriotism and combat unit pride get the better of them.

the answer to your question is to look at why the USMC selected an updated variant of the Terrex as one of 2 finalist for its next gen amphibious assault vehicle. They have evaluated many vehicles and think the terrex is suitable for them.

The BMS (battlefield MAnagement system) software system is amazing, everything is displayed on coloured flat screen in the commander's position in the Terrex. UAVs flying above can downlink their aerial views directly to the BMS, hence allowing the commander to see what is over the hill and beyond. Also, satellite imagery and surveillance can also be downlinked. All other friendly forces like other Terrex are also displayed on the screen allowing the commander to see where the other friendly forces are. Even the locations of Apaches flying overhead, arty units, and Leo 2 tanks can all be displayed on the screen in real time. The battlefield commander 20 km away in the HQ also sees what the Terrex commander sees, and hence knows what is the disposition of his forces and where the enemy is. The fog of war is eliminated vastly with this system. U just scroll thru various screens and magnification on the BMS. Not only that. orders can be issued thru the BMS without ever going over the radio and hence is more secured and less prone to error in interpretation. Your order to attack or advance will be shown on the BMS screen so, you don't even have to check back with HQ to confirm the order on the radio. I can tell you that I am really impressed by this system. I am aware as you have mentioned, other systems used by other armies, but I can tell you this system is up there with the best and the chinese have nothing like it.....until now.

Papsmearer · Dec 5, 2016

3_M said:
The only more sensitive thing is the BMS. Armour wise don't think it possible to reserve engineer as far as material science is concerns as the composite materials as well as the forging process can't be copied just by stripping the terrex down.

the armour is not easy to copy. The chinese have their own modular applique armour, but the sandwich combo is always different and unique to the manufacturer. I am not sure how good the chinese version is, but at the time of the development, the MEXAS armour used in the Terrex was top of the line. I am sure its still superior to the chinese stuff. All chinese armour used in the middle east wars including Operation Iraqi freedom have been easily defeated and have had a bad reputation. I still don't think the newest chinese armour can stand up to it.

maxsanic · Dec 5, 2016

Papsmearer said:
the answer to your question is to look at why the USMC selected an updated variant of the Terrex as one of 2 finalist for its next gen amphibious assault vehicle. They have evaluated many vehicles and think the terrex is suitable for them.

The BMS (battlefield MAnagement system) software system is amazing, everything is displayed on coloured flat screen in the commander's position in the Terrex. UAVs flying above can downlink their aerial views directly to the BMS, hence allowing the commander to see what is over the hill and beyond. Also, satellite imagery and surveillance can also be downlinked. All other friendly forces like other Terrex are also displayed on the screen allowing the commander to see where the other friendly forces are. Even the locations of Apaches flying overhead, arty units, and Leo 2 tanks can all be displayed on the screen in real time. The battlefield commander 20 km away in the HQ also sees what the Terrex commander sees, and hence knows what is the disposition of his forces and where the enemy is. The fog of war is eliminated vastly with this system. U just scroll thru various screens and magnification on the BMS. Not only that. orders can be issued thru the BMS without ever going over the radio and hence is more secured and less prone to error in interpretation. Your order to attack or advance will be shown on the BMS screen so, you don't even have to check back with HQ to confirm the order on the radio. I can tell you that I am really impressed by this system. I am aware as you have mentioned, other systems used by other armies, but I can tell you this system is up there with the best and the chinese have nothing like it.....until now.

Thanks for the summary.

This is all very interesting, but honestly based on your description, it doesn't really sound particularly cutting edge to me. I mean colored screens, showing positioning of friendly/enemy units, linking to UAV videos and receiving orders securely sound pretty modern, but the key question which I am struggling to understand is "what is so unique about it?" I have been hearing similar technologies around for quite some time. Maybe the integration done by the Terrex is good enough for export to western markets, but is it really that big of a deal?

If it's really that revolutionary, why is the Terrex not a global arms success or at least armed forces all around the way actively lobbying to procure? To date besides Singapore, it seems only the USMC (not the most sophisticated and technologically advanced branch in US service) is considering it (not yet awarded). I would have thought something that is sophisticated enough for PRC to want to invest in all the resources and engineering talent to reverse engineer should be pretty well known in the arms industry and able to change their military in a meaningful way. That was not the impression I was getting based on my limited google research. In fact the Terrex has a very limited online footprint in industry and arms enthusiast sites.

Serious PLA Colonel laughing at SAF Terrex technology 17 years behind PRC junks!

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