Chitchat MINDEF in Crisis over Terrex Seizure - Inquiry underway

scroobal · Nov 30, 2016

Mindef is now a hive of activity with various departments looking for documents and cover. Heads will roll and Ng is also expected to go -PAP style by waiting for the noise to die and without the govt acknowledging or admitting to any errors on their part. Teo Chee Head is heading what is effectively an inquiry.

Every single persons in Mindef knows that it was not the fault of the shipper. The customer decides how shipment is carried out for sensitive cargo and the shipper charges a premium if it incurs additional costs. They are all know it was a massive blunder. They were shocked that it even docked in Xiamen.

Comments about training in Taiwan, relationship with China going forward, shipper not doing proper declaration etc are all red herrings.

Expect the Chinese to strip the thing down and expect Mindef to deny it was stripped even when there are clear evidence of it.

nayr69sg · Nov 30, 2016

scroobal said:
Mindef is now a hive of activity with various departments looking for documents and cover. Heads will roll and Ng is also expected to go -PAP style by waiting for the noise to die and without the govt acknowledging or admitting to any errors on their part. Teo Chee Head is heading what is effectively an inquiry.

Every single persons in Mindef knows that it was not the fault of the shipper. The customer decides how shipment is carried out for sensitive cargo and the shipper charges a premium if it incurs additional costs. They are all know it was a massive blunder. They were shocked that it even docked in Xiamen.

Comments about training in Taiwan, relationship with China going forward, shipper not doing proper declaration etc are all red herrings.

Expect the Chinese to strip the thing down and expect Mindef to deny it was stripped even when there are clear evidence of it.

Here's the thing scroobal, I think most people who bother to come to this forum will have come to the same conclusions on their own already.

But the general public in Singapore is just so plain gullible and daft that they would think anything other than the above.

The true downfall of Singapore has less to do with the PAP and the government and more with the daft Singaporeans.

After all, while Hen will have the shoulder blame, it is probably some paper general or colonel ie daft Singaporean who made the blunders with the shipping plans and arrangements anyway.

Singapore is full of daft people. It is about time the country earned what it deserves.

krafty · Nov 30, 2016

i think they have too many canteen breaks, so much pastries or coffee which hinder their thinking ability.

kiwibird7 · Nov 30, 2016

It is very improper to ship military hardware by civilian ship into a sovereign state even if it is only in transit, a suspicious country could view it as a Trojan horse, it is an undeclared act of war when military hardware (armoured car, tank etc) enters another's territory is actually an invasion, a hostile act.

Are MINDEF top brass so daft that they failed to realise the VULNERABILITY of an unarmed civilian ship against pirates hijacking the ship in the high seas enroute to Singapore? If Abu Sayyaf were to hijack the ship, they would now have SAF Terrex vehicles to fight the Philippine Army. All the Generals in MINDEF should be court martialled!

iluvgst · Nov 30, 2016

too complacent and overpaid elites in the military admin. sinkies get what they voted for.

Papsmearer · Nov 30, 2016

scroobal said:
Mindef is now a hive of activity with various departments looking for documents and cover. Heads will roll and Ng is also expected to go -PAP style by waiting for the noise to die and without the govt acknowledging or admitting to any errors on their part. Teo Chee Head is heading what is effectively an inquiry.

Every single persons in Mindef knows that it was not the fault of the shipper. The customer decides how shipment is carried out for sensitive cargo and the shipper charges a premium if it incurs additional costs. They are all know it was a massive blunder. They were shocked that it even docked in Xiamen.

Comments about training in Taiwan, relationship with China going forward, shipper not doing proper declaration etc are all red herrings.

Expect the Chinese to strip the thing down and expect Mindef to deny it was stripped even when there are clear evidence of it.

Yes, we already know this. I can also tell you ST Engineering is deeply involved in the inquiry. They have to decide what technology and equipment was lost to the Chinese and the impact on it of the USMC competition, and on the other partners that sold the technology to ST. Its a big fucking cockup. Many Israeli, American, and German suppliers are not happy that their technology is in the hands of the chinese.

Papsmearer · Nov 30, 2016

kiwibird7 said:
It is very improper to ship military hardware by civilian ship into a sovereign state even if it is only in transit, a suspicious country could view it as a Trojan horse, it is an undeclared act of war when military hardware (armoured car, tank etc) enters another's territory is actually an invasion, a hostile act.

Are MINDEF top brass so daft that they failed to realise the VULNERABILITY of an unarmed civilian ship against pirates hijacking the ship in the high seas enroute to Singapore? If Abu Sayyaf were to hijack the ship, they would now have SAF Terrex vehicles to fight the Philippine Army. All the Generals in MINDEF should be court martialled!

The ship has to sail thru pirate infested waters to get to singapore. If such a important military shipment was known to be on board, there might be groups that could launch an attempt to hijack the vessel. Even worse was that the Terrex were still painted in Taiwanese military markings.

Papsmearer · Nov 30, 2016

nayr69sg said:
Here's the thing scroobal, I think most people who bother to come to this forum will have come to the same conclusions on their own already.

But the general public in Singapore is just so plain gullible and daft that they would think anything other than the above.

The true downfall of Singapore has less to do with the PAP and the government and more with the daft Singaporeans.

After all, while Hen will have the shoulder blame, it is probably some paper general or colonel ie daft Singaporean who made the blunders with the shipping plans and arrangements anyway.

Singapore is full of daft people. It is about time the country earned what it deserves.

Almost 24,000 views on this thread. Not all the general public is so daft. I am sure many came to view it. Along with the assorted news journalists, ISD, MINDEF Intel, PAP prolumpars, etc.

iluvgst · Nov 30, 2016

BS that they claim no sensitive equipment on the terrex. if that is the case, why dont they just give it up to china for scrap metal. USMC wont buy from ST liao. within a year or two, china will be making an exact or improved terrex knockoff. and selling to iran, russia or syria for a fraction of the price.

ckmpd · Nov 30, 2016

scroobal said:
Mindef is now a hive of activity with various departments looking for documents and cover. Heads will roll and Ng is also expected to go -PAP style by waiting for the noise to die and without the govt acknowledging or admitting to any errors on their part. Teo Chee Head is heading what is effectively an inquiry.

Every single persons in Mindef knows that it was not the fault of the shipper. The customer decides how shipment is carried out for sensitive cargo and the shipper charges a premium if it incurs additional costs. They are all know it was a massive blunder. They were shocked that it even docked in Xiamen.

Comments about training in Taiwan, relationship with China going forward, shipper not doing proper declaration etc are all red herrings.

Expect the Chinese to strip the thing down and expect Mindef to deny it was stripped even when there are clear evidence of it.

Commercialisation and lack of proper staff work will kill the SAF

ckmpd · Nov 30, 2016

nayr69sg said:
Here's the thing scroobal, I think most people who bother to come to this forum will have come to the same conclusions on their own already.

But the general public in Singapore is just so plain gullible and daft that they would think anything other than the above.

The true downfall of Singapore has less to do with the PAP and the government and more with the daft Singaporeans.

After all, while Hen will have the shoulder blame, it is probably some paper general or colonel ie daft Singaporean who made the blunders with the shipping plans and arrangements anyway.

Singapore is full of daft people. It is about time the country earned what it deserves.

Paper generals are the result of pap's policies of quick promotions without regard for experience nor true performance

The_Hypocrite · Nov 30, 2016

This is just the typical garbage of ownself check ownself...the head tat will roll will be some small fry n not scholars. Look at the MRT accident..the one tat Kenna was the driver...any senior exec got the chop? This is what the 70% voted for

3_M · Nov 30, 2016

Shipping line declaration was based on what Saf submitted. It unlikely the fault of APL if mindef didn't tell them there are boxes of military stores within.

And no I don't expect China to touch the Afv.

What they are doing is basically to depoliticise the issue and scale it down to technicalities while engaging in quiet diplomacy.

Thick Face Black Heart · Nov 30, 2016

I expect the Chinese to press their advantage on this. The SG govt has made huge mistake, not the first nor the last by any measure, by the timing is extremely advantageous to the Chinese. Even a fool will know how to pick low-lying fruit.

The current shipping practice has carried on for some time, so it is not a one-off error.

Satyr · Nov 30, 2016

kiwibird7 said:
It is very improper to ship military hardware by civilian ship into a sovereign state even if it is only in transit, a suspicious country could view it as a Trojan horse, it is an undeclared act of war when military hardware (armoured car, tank etc) enters another's territory is actually an invasion, a hostile act.

Are MINDEF top brass so daft that they failed to realise the VULNERABILITY of an unarmed civilian ship against pirates hijacking the ship in the high seas enroute to Singapore? If Abu Sayyaf were to hijack the ship, they would now have SAF Terrex vehicles to fight the Philippine Army. All the Generals in MINDEF should be court martialled!

True. How would Singapore authorities feel if Chinese ships had arms on board while anchored in our waters. Did these guys ship military equipment without armed guards ? Seriously, who is running Mindef now. Boy Scouts would have more sense.

gongkia · Nov 30, 2016

3_M said:
Shipping line declaration was based on what Saf submitted. It unlikely the fault of APL if mindef didn't tell them there are boxes of military stores within.

And no I don't expect China to touch the Afv.

What they are doing is basically to depoliticise the issue and scale it down to technicalities while engaging in quiet diplomacy.

Not the first case HK custom seized military equipments of a sovereign country for failing to abide by its custom laws. South Korea's shipment of military aircraft after demo in the middle east was detained by HK custom and was released after South Korea found and submitted the missing declaration forms.

po2wq · Nov 30, 2016

gongkia said:
Not the first case HK custom seized military equipments of a sovereign country for failing to abide by its custom laws. South Korea's shipment of military aircraft after demo in the middle east was detained by HK custom and was released after South Korea found and submitted the missing declaration forms.

lidat ... dat chicken burger shud quikly go find n submit ze missing declaration forms ...

gongkia · Nov 30, 2016

po2wq said:
lidat ... dat chicken burger shud quikly go find n submit ze missing declaration forms ...

Likely no declaration form was done by SAF logistic, so nothing to find.

scroobal · Nov 30, 2016

Agree.

In fact I think the public is also wondering what Viv B and Ng are going on about in the press as this quite a silly but costly mistake and the repeated attempts to hang it on the shipper is getting comical.

nayr69sg said:
Here's the thing scroobal, I think most people who bother to come to this forum will have come to the same conclusions on their own already.
.

scroobal · Nov 30, 2016

There are broadly 3 streams for simplicity sake that is now running in Mindef. The depts that are responsible for logistics, desperately seeking contractual documents going all the way back to the 90s in order to save their hide. MSD trying their level best to interpret their remit to their own ends and the leadership team trying to downplay the incident. Already the comments about "cost effective" shipping method shows how a top end OM scholar with supposedly 20 over years of front line leadership and the highest ranking SAF Officer has managed to break down a calamitous intelligence situation of national interest into a matter of cost and just cost.

Chitchat MINDEF in Crisis over Terrex Seizure - Inquiry underway

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