Serious Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

flatearther · Nov 30, 2016

ginfreely said:
Anyone want to guess whether Taiwan Chinese will support Spore in this case?

Papsmearer said:
Taiwanese defeaning silence and their disavowal of the Terrex indicates they are not supporting us.

I dare say that not only will Singapore (especially LHL and the PAP) have the fullest support of the current President of Taiwan (who, by the way, is also a Hakka, just like LHL):
wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsai_Ing-wen
the Emperor and Prime Minister of Japan's support will also be 100%. :wink:

flatearther · Nov 30, 2016

Papsmearer said:
Leongsam said:

Why should Singapore placate the commie chinks. I say they can go to hell. Nobody needs their shit. China is a failed nation that will soon sink into oblivion.

Singapore does not need the ATCs back. Tell China they can keep them. Singapore has more than enough in reserves to buy thousands of replacements.

Click to expand...

Fuck lah, the PAP can't even stop 400 apunehs from rioting in LI, how do they stop 1 million Tiongs? U want to send them all back to china, sure I have no problems with that. But your trains and buses will stop running because there is no drivers and staff to operate them. Will u be happy then? The PAP has put us into the impossible position to rely on them like an opium addict relies on opium (tanwahtiu u there?). Practically speaking, its not possible to send them all back now. we have dug too deep a hole for that. If Beijing goes on the social media tomorrow and orders all its citizens working for SMRT and SBS not to report to work tomorrow, will you still think we don't have to placate them. U are the only idiot who does not know that the Chinese have us by the balls hair.

Xi Jinping and/or Li Keqiang will never even dare to say/do such a stupid thing, especially since there is a good chance such an "order" will not be obeyed. :wink:

You are being overly paranoid. :wink:

And even if such an "order" is obeyed, how many will obey it and how long will the strike last? :wink:

Will those strikers be very willing to return to China? If yes, then why bother to strike? They would rather simply resign, right? :wink:

flatearther · Nov 30, 2016

Papsmearer said:
Who can trust this sort of chief of navy who was loyal to another country for 27 years?

Ironically, depending on such "foreign talents" was the only way for the PAP government to strengthen Singapore back then. :wink:

Furthermore, those foreign talents and their foreign governments also had, and still have, vested interests in Singapore; so they didn't, and still don't, mind helping to strengthen and protect Singapore, right? :wink:

Bigfuck · Nov 30, 2016

There is no need to sledgehammer Singapore. If they were so petty, it would have been all out war in SCS with the Philippines.
However maladroit LHL has set Singapore up for revenge served cold. Things will happen and it will occur subtlely, something beyond the comprehension of the maladroit and his dogs.

singularity · Nov 30, 2016

Papsmearer said:
Applique armour MEXAS made by IBD "subsidiary" in singapore. RWS turret and servos and motors are made in singapore from an Israeli design. If they have any weapons, the 40mm AGL is singapore design. The vehicle design is by Timoney which is partly owned by ST Engineering. I would say there is a decent amount of singaporean content.

firing trigger is activated by a magnetic actuator, makes sense as it is a remote-controlled turret. nothing secretive here, im sure similar platforms used such mechanisms since decades ago.

the chassis would take an anti personnel mine blast but would not survive an anti tank one. again, nothing secretive, ICVs are not meant to charge into enemy lines unlike MBTs.

wonder if they erased all the BMS settings before loading the vehicles into the container prior to shipping? Judging from mindef's silent panic, probably not?

Papsmearer · Nov 30, 2016

singularity said:
firing trigger is activated by a magnetic actuator, makes sense as it is a remote-controlled turret. nothing secretive here, im sure similar platforms used such mechanisms since decades ago.

the chassis would take an anti personnel mine blast but would not survive an anti tank one. again, nothing secretive, ICVs are not meant to charge into enemy lines unlike MBTs.

wonder if they erased all the BMS settings before loading the vehicles into the container prior to shipping? Judging from mindef's silent panic, probably not?

So, easy, just like that? Anyone can make a RWS turret. But how accurate is it going to be?. You have the stabilization to consider, the speed of the gun tracking, All tied into the optical sight and ballistic computer with software, etc. The Terrex RWS is fast, lays it on first time, and keeps it on. Some countries will give their right testicle to have that.

I don't care about the chassis and I never mentioned anything about that. I mentioned about the MEXAS armour which is a proprietary secret formula. Although there are many applique armour makers on the market, they are not cheap. An AFV's applique depending on the degree of protection can easily amount to 10-15% of the vehicle cost. The MEXAS applique in the Terrex is by world standards, above average in quality. If the PLA can reverse engineer it, they will save a lot of money, and get it for free without paying royalties and manufacturing fees. That is worth something to them, as well as it will give them some insight into American applique armour which is also made by IBD Chempro JV with Rheinmetall.

As I mentioned in the first post on the this thread, I think the chinese have already hacked the software and downloaded it from the BMS. I don't think the chinese have anything this sophisticated. That was why an SAF team was rushed out there, but not granted access.

3_M · Nov 30, 2016

Papsmearer said:
So, easy, just like that? Anyone can make a RWS turret. But how accurate is it going to be?. You have the stabilization to consider, the speed of the gun tracking, All tied into the optical sight and ballistic computer with software, etc. The Terrex RWS is fast, lays it on first time, and keeps it on. Some countries will give their right testicle to have that.

I don't care about the chassis and I never mentioned anything about that. I mentioned about the MEXAS armour which is a proprietary secret formula. Although there are many applique armour makers on the market, they are not cheap. An AFV's applique depending on the degree of protection can easily amount to 10-15% of the vehicle cost. The MEXAS applique in the Terrex is by world standards, above average in quality. If the PLA can reverse engineer it, they will save a lot of money, and get it for free without paying royalties and manufacturing fees. That is worth something to them, as well as it will give them some insight into American applique armour which is also made by IBD Chempro JV with Rheinmetall.

As I mentioned in the first post on the this thread, I think the chinese have already hacked the software and downloaded it from the BMS. I don't think the chinese have anything this sophisticated. That was why an SAF team was rushed out there, but not granted access.

Don't think China need all these technologies. They have RWS fitted on their Vt4 mbt. As for BMS not very sure but I suppose it not something difficult for them having launched the beidou GPS system. It would be silly for them not to develop their own BMS to fully exploit their GPS capabilities.

Papsmearer · Nov 30, 2016

3_M said:
Don't think China need all these technologies. They have RWS fitted on their Vt4 mbt. As for BMS not very sure but I suppose it not something difficult for them having launched the beidou GPS system. It would be silly for them not to develop their own BMS to fully exploit their GPS capabilities.

U can always learn from other competitors and enemies. They may not adopt the Terrex BMS for themselves, nor in fact any other piece of equipment or technology. But by virtue of studying it, they have an idea of how the Terrex performs and by default an inside into what the USMC wants to buy and what the taiwanese operates. The Taiwanese Cloud Leopard ICV is also developed by the same Irish company that did the Terrex. If nothing else, they will just park the Terrex on the range and shoot everything at it from 7.62mm, 12.7mm, 20mm, etc. just to see how good the armour is and where the weak spots are.

eatshitndie · Nov 30, 2016

taiwan holds sea rescue drills around spratly islands (out of itu aba) and tiongs are uncharacteristically quiet. roc calls itu aba "taiping" island.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/beijing-untypically-quiet-taiwan-drills-south-china-sea-012632515.html

cuckoldoolittle · Nov 30, 2016

eatshitndie said:
taiwan holds sea rescue drills around spratly islands (out of itu aba) and tiongs are uncharacteristically quiet. roc calls itu aba "taiping" island.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/beijing-untypically-quiet-taiwan-drills-south-china-sea-012632515.html

China will never create problems with Taiwan over Taiping Island which was under Taiwan for many years.
As long as it's under Taiwan's control they regard it as under China because both PROC and ROC are China.
But if another party were to do this it will invite China's intervention.

The One-China Policy.

The One-China policy (simplified Chinese: 一个中国政策; traditional Chinese: 一個中國政策; pinyin: yīgè Zhōngguó zhèngcè)
refers to the policy or view that there is only one state called "China", despite the existence of two governments that claim to be "China".

As a policy, this means that countries seeking diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China (PRC) must break official relations with the
Republic of China (ROC) and vice versa. Hence, all the countries recognizing the ROC recognize it as the sole legitimate representative of all of
"China" and not just the island of Taiwan and other islands which it controls. Similarly, all states that recognize the PRC either recognise the PRC
as the legitimate representative of Taiwan or acknowledge the PRC's views on the matter.

The One China policy is also different from the "One China principle" (一个中国原则; 一個中國原則; yīgè Zhōngguó yuánzé), which is the principle
that insists both Taiwan and mainland China are inalienable parts of a single "China" modified form of the "One China" principle known as the
"1992 Consensus" is the current policy of the PRC government, and at times, the policy of the ROC government, depending on which major political party
is in power. Under this "consensus", both governments "agree" that there is only one sovereign state encompassing both mainland China and Taiwan,
but disagree about which of the two governments is the legitimate government of this state. An analogous situation exists with Korea.

The One-China principle faces opposition from supporters of the Taiwan independence movement, which pushes to establish the "Republic of Taiwan"
and cultivate a separate identity apart from China called "Taiwanization". Taiwanization's influence on the government of the ROC has caused instability:
after the Communist Party of China expelled the ROC in the Chinese Civil War from most of Chinese territory in 1949 and founded the PRC, the ROC's
Chinese Nationalist government, which still held Taiwan, continued to claim legitimacy as the government of all of China. Under former President Lee Teng-hui,
additional articles were appended to the ROC constitution in 1991 so that it applied effectively only to the Taiwan Area prior to national unification.
However, recent ROC President Ma Ying-jeou has re-asserted claims on mainland China as late as October 8, 2008.

gongkia · Nov 30, 2016

China says their AVF is more advanced than terrex,,,,,,,

中国稀罕新加坡战车技术????解放军完全看不上眼..
http://player.video.qiyi.com/22a05b...576467700-tvId=576467700-isPurchase=0-cnId=28

yellowarse · Nov 30, 2016

eatshitndie said:
taiwan holds sea rescue drills around spratly islands (out of itu aba) and tiongs are uncharacteristically quiet. roc calls itu aba "taiping" island.

Note that the Spratly Islands dispute was always between China and other claimants apart from Taiwan, even though Taiwan is also a claimant. That's because under the one-China rule, what's Taiwan's is also China's. When Taiwan eventually re-unifies with the mainland, everything comes back to China.

Ditto for the Penghu and Kinmen islands which are currently under ROC control.

3_M · Nov 30, 2016

Papsmearer said:
Applique armour MEXAS made by IBD "subsidiary" in singapore. RWS turret and servos and motors are made in singapore from an Israeli design. If they have any weapons, the 40mm AGL is singapore design. The vehicle design is by Timoney which is partly owned by ST Engineering. I would say there is a decent amount of singaporean content.

Terrex was a collaboration with Timoney which was later acquired by STK together with the patent of Terrex.

IBD was a German firm and MEXAS was developed by them in the 90s. Not sure if STK bought over the firm later.

3_M · Nov 30, 2016

yellowarse said:
Note that the Spratly Islands dispute was always between China and other claimants apart from Taiwan, even though Taiwan is also a claimant. That's because under the one-China rule, what's Taiwan's is also China's. When Taiwan eventually re-unifies with the mainland, everything comes back to China.

Ditto for the Penghu and Kinmen islands which are currently under ROC control.

Taiwan don't have the ability to defend taiping island as it too far from Taiwan.

If not for mainland china quietly guarding it from a distance, VC would have long drove the Taiwanese out.

Hans168 · Nov 30, 2016

rushifa666 said:
They will never apologise. Sissy vivian even walked out of a meeting with a china delegate. What they dont have in brains, they more than compensate with arrogance. Will be an entertaining 2017

Vivian is unique.......... as chindian he can any time walk away from China towards India

Hans168 · Nov 30, 2016

Charlie99 said:
What do the ROC Armour chaps wear?

Okamoto rubber?

Hans168 · Nov 30, 2016

Papsmearer said:
Taiwanese defeaning silence and their disavowal of the Terrex indicates they are not supporting us.

as said......... if Tw whipered her Prez will be violently raped

Hans168 · Nov 30, 2016

Papsmearer said:
U mean the drunken
Irishes at Timoney's

spot on .......... wonder why everybody saying designed and made in sg???????????????? bullshit repeated so many times become truth

Hans168 · Nov 30, 2016

Papsmearer said:
Applique armour MEXAS made by IBD "subsidiary" in singapore. RWS turret and servos and motors are made in singapore from an Israeli design. If they have any weapons, the 40mm AGL is singapore design. The vehicle design is by Timoney which is partly owned by ST Engineering. I would say there is a decent amount of singaporean content.

the amouring is confined to glueng the AlO3 tiles to aramide honeycomb,,,,,,,,,,,, just like cobblerworks NO manufacturing of the tiles or honeycomb or super high tensile str glue..... BTW I dun think there is ever a IBD sub here except a front for money laundering for which FU Deisenroth paid heavily but his sidekicks are still at large

Hans168 · Nov 30, 2016

Papsmearer said:
This was in the 1970s.

Commander Republic of Singapore Air Force was formerly Republic of China Air Force Colonel Liu Ching Chuan. Colonel Liu actually had combat experience having flown a F-84G Thunderjet against PLAAF Mig-15s. he was shot down as a Major after a dogfight with a Mig-15. That would place him head and shoulders above any personnel that the RSAF had in those days.

Commander Republic of Singapore Navy was former Republic of China Navy Colonel rank Khoo Eng An. He was born in Singapore, but family moved to Taiwan. he served in the Taiwanese Navy for 27 years, retired and came to singapore to be Cmmander RSN for 10 years between 1975 and 1985. at that time, this sort of shit is closely guarded secret. He passed away at aged 73 in 1999. Who can trust this sort of chief of navy who was loyal to another country for 27 years?

there were two colonels in CIS doing reverse engineering but vamoose after a year or so........... not worth any shit

Serious Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

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