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Thread: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

  1. #421
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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Quote

    The principle of sovereign immunity is founded on equality between countries. When the actions of one sovereign country are brought to the courts in another, generally the relevant jurisdiction of the latter is not exercised. And such a concept exists in China, Britain, Singapore and Hong Kong.

    Before Sept 8, 2011, when the Hong Kong Court of Final Appeal ruled on a court case involving the Democratic Republic of Congo and FG Hemisphere Associates, the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region had been applying relevant concepts of sovereign immunity from the British State Immunity Act 1978. That meant the commercial activities of a sovereign country could not invoke sovereign immunity and be exempt from prosecution. In Hong Kong, sovereign states also had to appear in court for legal action arising from commercial disputes or activities. However, in the 2011 lawsuit involving a debt dispute between DR Congo and FG Hemisphere, the Hong Kong Court of Final Appeal requested that China's National People's Congress Standing Committee (NPCSC) give its interpretation of the relevant articles of the Basic Law, on the basis that the case concerned foreign relations.

    In its interpretation, the NPCSC pointed out that the British State Immunity Act 1978 no longer applied to Hong Kong, and that Hong Kong should adopt the same approach as China in exercising absolute immunity. This means that any action by sovereign states in Hong Kong is not liable for prosecution. Following the ruling of the Court of Final Appeal on Sept 8, 2011, there are no longer exceptions on Hong Kong's position on sovereign immunity.

    Since the NPCSC has established that the State Immunity Act no longer applies to Hong Kong when explaining the Basic Law, and that China's effecting of absolute sovereign immunity applies, Hong Kong has no legal basis to hold the SAF's armoured vehicles. Hong Kong Customs should take reference from the DR Congo and FG Hemisphere case and immediately return the armoured vehicles to the Singapore Government, and not continue to hold them on the pretext of an investigation.

    Hong Kong's Department of Justice (DOJ), as legal counsel to the Hong Kong government, wrote the grounds of judgment on the DR Congo and FG Hemisphere case. Veteran lawyer and Hong Kong's Secretary for Justice Rimsky Yuen should know that the seizure of Singapore's armoured vehicles cannot stand before the law. The DOJ is duty-bound to give Hong Kong Customs its legal opinion and point out that under Hong Kong's current laws, there is no basis to hold the armoured vehicles, which were being commercially transported without any explosives on them. While these armoured vehicles are strategic assets legally, it is also clear that sovereign immunity comes above all else. If China does not want the incident to hurt its relationship with Singapore, all it needs to do is to get the Hong Kong government to release the armoured vehicles based on NPCSC's interpretation of the Basic Law in 2011.

    But if the same interpretation is not applied to the seizure of Singapore's armoured vehicles, the authority of the NPCSC in interpreting the Basic Law for Hong Kong will become more questionable, to the detriment of not just Singapore-China ties. It remains to be seen if Beijing will resolve the seizure of the armoured vehicles with wisdom and in keeping with Hong Kong law. A swift return of the vehicles to the Singapore Government will minimise the negative impact of the issue and bring about a win-win outcome for Singapore, Hong Kong and China.


    The writer is a British current affairs commentator based in Hong Kong.

    Unquote

    In short, the seizure of the 9 Terrex by China is illegal.

  2. #422
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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by virus View Post
    brunei is more worried another sultan come over to take the throne from indon/ malaysia. cant be bother with china.

    vietnam will rub their pussies with russia again so no threat.
    Yes, a couple of summer rolls and a bowl of borscht soup makes a great meal.

  3. #423
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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Last Sunday, I made a big pot of borscht.

    Stock from boiling 6 organic chicken drumsticks, diced onions, chopped garlic, oregano, ground black pepper and white pepper, ground paprika, sliced carrots and parsnips, chopped celery.
    Separate pot to boil the diced onions, chopped garlic, potato cubes, sliced carrots, juliened red beets (I pureed the end pieces of the beets, celery sticks and parsnips), then add "Italian seasoning - herbs"
    Deboned the chicken drumsticks, then mixed the two pots of chicken stock and boiled vegetables, add some fresh lemon juice (some people will add some honey).

  4. #424
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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie99 View Post
    Last Sunday, I made a big pot of borscht.

    Stock from boiling 6 organic chicken drumsticks, diced onions, chopped garlic, oregano, ground black pepper and white pepper, ground paprika, sliced carrots and parsnips, chopped celery.
    Separate pot to boil the diced onions, chopped garlic, potato cubes, sliced carrots, juliened red beets (I pureed the end pieces of the beets, celery sticks and parsnips), then add "Italian seasoning - herbs"
    Deboned the chicken drumsticks, then mixed the two pots of chicken stock and boiled vegetables, add some fresh lemon juice (some people will add some honey).

    The only Borscht I eat is those
    from the Hong Kong style cafes. :-)

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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    prefer ox tail stew with red wine in winter.
    6.9 k's of sinkies: kopi, kaya toast, kueh kueh, kio kway, ktv, kpkb.

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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by eatshitndie View Post
    prefer ox tail stew with red wine in winter.
    I am not so fancy with the angmo jiak like oxtail in red wine. Real Hong Kong style Borscht soup is made from oxtail as part of the recipe. Those small chunks of meat in it is supposed to be oxtail.

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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    The only Borscht I eat is those
    from the Hong Kong style cafes. :-)
    I did not know that the Hong Kong Chinese make or cook borscht.

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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie99 View Post
    I did not know that the Hong Kong Chinese make or cook borscht.
    U hang out with too many angmos in Toronto lah.

    http://www.justonecookbook.com/borsc...ng-kong-style/

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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie99 View Post
    I did not know that the Hong Kong Chinese make or cook borscht.
    Hong Kong Style Borscht Soup Recipe (Loh Sung Tong, 羅宋湯)


    Borscht soup, aka "loh sung tong" (羅宋湯) is a familiar soup that are usually served in the HK style cafe (茶餐厅).

    Borscht is a soup originated from Ukraine, that is common in Eastern and Central Europe, especially in Ashkenazi Jewish, Belarusian, Lithuanian, Polish, Romanian, Russian and Ukrainian cuisine. In most of traditional recipes, it is made with beetroot as the main ingredient. In some regions, tomato is used as the main ingredient, while beetroot may act as a secondary ingredient. Other varieties that do not use beetroot also exist, such as green borscht and white borscht.

    However, the Hong Kong version of borscht soup originated in Harbin, close to the Russian border in northeast China, is based on red cabbage and tomatoes, but lacks beetroots altogether.

    �� Source: Wikipedia

    The original version of this soup requires the usage of beef stocks, where the beef bones are being roasted in the oven before making the soup stocks. However, I prefer to make mine using a combination of pork and chicken stocks, and it still gives me a good flavour of borscht soup. So it's all up to you on what type of soup stocks that you like and comfortable with.

    Ingredients
    (Serves 3 - 4)

    1 litres pork/ chicken/ beef stocks

    3 cloves garlic
    1 red onion
    2 carrots, medium sized
    1 stalk celery
    1 potato, medium sized

    400g canned chopped tomatoes
    1/4 cup tomato paste
    1 tbsp Worcestershire sauce
    Sugar, to taste
    Salt, to taste


    1. Finely dice the onion and garlic separately.

    2. Dice carrots, celery and potato into equal small cubes.

    3. Heat the pan with some cooking oil/ butter, sauté the chopped onion and garlic until fragrant.

    4. Then add in the diced vegetables and mix well.


    5. Then add in the soup stocks, chopped tomatoes, tomato paste, and Worcestershire sauce. Bring the soup to boil over high heat, and continue to simmer over low heat for 60 minutes or until the vegetables are soft and tender.

    *If you do not want to use canned tomatoes, you can always use 6 - 8 pcs of fresh tomatoes as substitutes.

    6. Lastly season it with salt and sugar to taste before serving.

    *You can add more tomato paste if you prefer to have strong tomato flavour in your soup.

  10. #430
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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
    I am not so fancy with the angmo jiak like oxtail in red wine. Real Hong Kong style Borscht soup is made from oxtail as part of the recipe. Those small chunks of meat in it is supposed to be oxtail.
    yup, two types: original is made from oxtail while later versions from chicken or pork bone stock. still prefer oxtail version, especially premarinated with red wine. alcohol in red wine burns away thus the final stock soup is super shiok. for beef version without oxtail, beef stock is used.
    6.9 k's of sinkies: kopi, kaya toast, kueh kueh, kio kway, ktv, kpkb.

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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Full text of Bargain Hen's pathetic statement to PArliament:

    Oral Reply by Minister for Defence Dr Ng Eng Hen to Parliamentary Questions on the Detention of SAF Terrex Infantry Carrier Vehicles
    (Source: Singapore Government; issued Jan 09, 2017)
    MINDEF and the Chief of Army have already disclosed the procedures used by the SAF for shipping military platforms for overseas training. Let me summarise.

    Singapore has limited training areas. Each year, the SAF moves over 700 military platforms using commercial carriers to all parts of the world in Asia, Australia, Europe, and the US. The SAF's contracts with the shipping companies and agents require them to comply with established protocols and all relevant international and local port rules. But the contracts leave it to the shipping companies to designate routes and ports – because this is their core business.

    Neither the SAF, Singapore, nor indeed most other countries operate on the assumption that our cargo will be arbitrarily seized when transiting reputable foreign ports. The SAF has followed these procedures for shipping military equipment for over 30 years without any significant incidents.

    These commercial arrangements have enabled the SAF to ship military equipment safely and economically. It would cost three to four times more, and add several hundred million dollars to MINDEF's annual budget, to ship all military equipment directly from point-to-point. Neither does the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) have transport ships with that scale and capability to ship all this equipment. However, our LSTs, currently our largest multi-purpose and transport ships, are due for replacement. We will consider if we need to replace them with ships of larger capacity.

    There are some exceptions, albeit rare, when the SAF does not use commercial shipping companies, or will apply special considerations if we do, based on security risk assessments. For example, as we did previously when we shipped advanced weapon and sensor systems or submarines brought back by the SAF to Singapore previously. The special measures include chartering whole ships, mandating direct shipments, deploying protection forces or even converting the commercial ship to a State Marine Ensign.

    The Terrex troop carrier vehicles did not fall into this special category. Members have asked if military secrets have been compromised due to the detention of Terrexes. As MINDEF has stated, the detained Terrexes and other equipment were being used for training and do not contain any sensitive equipment.

    Arising from this incident, the SAF has reviewed its shipping procedures comprehensively to reduce the risk of SAF equipment being taken hostage en route. Where we think the risk of detention of SAF assets has gone up, whether in Asia or any other part of the world, we will impose extra precautions even if this means incurring higher freight charges. Alternatively, the SAF may consider housing that equipment at overseas training sites to avoid shipping them altogether, and procure additional units to meet operational requirements, where necessary.

    In the present case, the SAF Terrexes were transiting in Hong Kong, one of the world's busiest and most established transhipment points. They were in transit on board the ship when they were ordered to be off-loaded by the Hong Kong authorities and detained. The legal position is that the SAF Terrexes and other equipment detained in Hong Kong are the property of the Singapore Government. They are protected by sovereign immunity, even though they were being shipped by commercial carriers.

    This means that they are immune from any measures of constraint abroad. They cannot legally be detained or confiscated by other countries. This principle is well-established under international law, and we are advised by lawyers that it is also the law in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR).

    Accordingly, the Singapore Government has asserted our sovereign rights over the SAF's Terrexes. We have informed the Hong Kong Government on several occasions over the last two months, both through lawyers and our Consul-General in Hong Kong, that the detained Terrexes and other equipment belong to the Government of Singapore and are therefore immune from any measures of constraint. Accordingly, we have requested the Hong Kong authorities to return our property immediately.

    PM Lee has also written to Chief Executive C Y Leung of Hong Kong on this matter to reiterate the same message. The Hong Kong authorities have responded that the investigation is ongoing and will take some time to complete, and that the Hong Kong Government will handle the matter in accordance with their laws.

    Singapore welcomes this response. Adherence to the rule of law has been the fundamental basis for peace and stability in the last half century in Asia. It has enabled countries both large and small to build trust and confidence in one another, cooperate and prosper together. These are the very principles incorporated in the Treaty of Amity and Co-operation whose signatories pledge "to promote regional peace and stability through abiding respect for justice and the rule of law".

    Whether APL, the shipping company in this case, has complied with the rules of Hong Kong port is a matter between APL and the Hong Kong authorities, which should follow the due process of Hong Kong law. That issue between APL and Hong Kong Customs affects neither the legal position of the Terrexes nor Singapore Government's rights. We therefore look forward to the Hong Kong Government returning our Terrexes in accordance with international law.

    Singapore and Hong Kong have long enjoyed good and friendly relations. We hope the matter will be resolved satisfactorily and our friendly relations will endure.

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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie99 View Post
    I did not know that the Hong Kong Chinese make or cook borscht.
    Stunning. To read that Hong Kong Chinese make or cook horseshit. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeek !!

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    Default Re: Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddog View Post
    Stunning. To read that Hong Kong Chinese make or cook horseshit. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeek !!
    Stunning like vegetable.

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