Chitchat The Enigma that is Nathan

scroobal · Aug 1, 2016

Years ago when I was cycling in East Coast, I stopped near the National Sailing Centre as my phone switched to Indonesian Telco. An elderly chap pointed out a cement block covering 6 big pipes and told me this was location where the Japanese massacred the Chinese civilians. He told me that the some of the elderly folks who lost their brothers would come and offer their prayers at the site. Occasionally I would hear about "6 pipes" Though it was built much later, it became a landmark of sorts. When the ex-President wrote the passage about how he was held in high regard by the Japanese Military Police, I realised that he had no clue about the feelings of the people he served.

wikiphile · Aug 1, 2016

GoldenDragon said:
Nathan is as ordinary as shit and urine found in a jamban.

i find your comment insulting to jamban by comparing nathan to it, somethings are worse than jamban - i.e. Nathan

dr.wailing · Aug 1, 2016

scroobal said:
I am not sure how best to put this out but this one senior civil servant and public figure that I can never figure out.

Don't waste your time over these useless bums. For me, I won't.

In addition to Nathan, there are many other people like him who've achieved nothing and yet hold important posts in your country's gabrament.You and I know who they are.

Papsmearer · Aug 1, 2016

scroobal said:
I am not sure how best to put this out but this one senior civil servant and public figure that I can never figure out. I don't think anyone understood the man except maybe the old man. He never did strike me as someone that was intelligent or smart, yet he headed SID, became a Perm Sec and went on to be diplomat holding key appointments.

Those who knew him better, please chip in.

Here are some anecdotes to describe the man

1) When he was Chairman of SPH, he was invited to give a talk to course participants to the SAF Command and Staff College. It catered for the senior staff of SAF as well some foreign invited officers. He turned up and gave a talk about how newspapers are printed including the night run. Everyone was embarrassed including the foreign participants.The topic was on the role of the press or something similar and they expected something along the lines of challenges, censorship, role of the govt vs the press, strategic and sensitive issues. And he was a Perm Sec.

2) The Board Directors of SPH realised that this man, their Chairman was out of his depth and began to have prior discussions and reached decisions prior to the actual board meetings. We are talking about the likes of Wee Cho Yaw of UOB and Lien Ying Chow of OUB.

3) Despite his past of heading SID, when he was Ambassador to Malaysia, SID operations in Malaysia was compromised which led to a number of operatives been banned from entry to Malaysia. The Malaysian Govt also asked for his removal and he was then reassigned to the Embassy in the US.

4) When he took over from Tommy Koh as Singapore's US Ambassador to the US, the embassy went close to a meltdown as Tommy ran an intellectual and very liberal embassy where staff including drivers and embassy of various nationalities were treated as equals. Nathan ran it as a total bureaucracy. It became a mini MFA. Nathan does not drink and the concept of alcohol was very uncomfortable for and it naturally it became an irritant for others.

5) His son moved from one GLC to another courtesy of the father and then eventually got a job as a lobbyist for American and German interest on "Asean" trade matters. Note the association with the father's roles. Very mysterious figure.

6) In his memoirs he talks about his time with the Japanese Police and how they sent him down to Singapore from Malaysia and accommodated him at Adelphi Hotel while he was in Singapore. He obviously had not clue on the implications of what he wrote.

7) Laju incident is another mystery. Which head of an Intelligence Unit offers himself to a bunch of terrorist? Who then controls the situation. It struck me as poor planning and complete lack of foresight.

8) When he got his daughter the posting that she wanted with the predecessor of ACRA, the daughter's husband also jumped on the bandwagon and joined the Legal Service. Unfortunately people in power were not prepared to do favours for the son-in-law, he left the Legal service shortly thereafter.

Anyone can think anything this famous individual did that merits some recognition.

I want to dispel some of your misconceptions about Nathan.

1) He is not a stupid guy. Like all Indians, he is a sneaky forked tongue asshole. But he did put himself thru university (U of Malaya)and got a undergard degree with honours. SO, he had the intelligence and the discipline to pull that off. Every one that served with him say he is intelligent and smart.

2) During WW2, it was not unusual for the Kampetai to use Malays and Indian locals to work for them. This is because they were counting on the natural distrust from these 2 groups against Chinese. And they wanted the chinese controlled and under surveillance. Unlike Old Fart (very unusual to have a chinese working for the Japanese against other chinese) who had some money, Nathan was dead broke and probably needed the money badly from Japanese pay. that does not forgive him for what he did.

3) Today, this clown would never head the SID. He headed the SID because it was new unit being formed and not one knew anything. It was blind leading the blind. Even today, my experience of SID is that they are still a bunch of clowns. Not one of those idiots can tell you what is the military threat to singapore today and where is it coming from. So, in my opinion, it was not a big deal that he was SID first head.

4) He was the protege of Devan Nair from the time they were dealing with the unions and the communists. Later on, when he got posted to MFA, Rajaratnam took him under his wing. because he got these 2 godfathers, and because he was blindly loyal, he got increasing posted to higher levels. his career got hanta kaki for 15 years after Devan Nair got fired from the presidency. Old fart did not trust any apunehs and especially those that were proteges of Devan Nair. His career was revived by Gay Loong after became PeeM because Gay loong knew him from his days at SID when he was BG.

5) The whole Laju incident is really fishy. There is an untold hidden story there. Nathan was made to look like the hero, but actually, the 4 hostages were exchanged for 13 govt hostages, of which nathan was one. Technically, the other 12 should get equal credit. In the first place, u never negotiate with terrorists. He did. And secondly, you don't give the terrorist new 13 hostages for 4 old one. How stupid is that? nathan only agree to go as a hostage after 4 commandoes were disguised as part of the 13 hostages, they were basically his bodyguard. They had the opportunuty to overpower the terrorist after the terrorists surrendered their weapons. Why would the 13 of them get on a plane with the terrorists and fly all the way to Kuwait City and release them there and then fly back to Singapore. Shit, just shoot them dead after they surrendered the weapons. What is the problem? Really a fishy business.

Papsmearer · Aug 1, 2016

wikiphile said:
i find your comment insulting to jamban by comparing nathan to it, somethings are worse than jamban - i.e. Nathan

I agree 100% with u

zeddy · Aug 1, 2016

Even a jar of ghee is more useful than Nathan.

Papsmearer · Aug 1, 2016

THE ENEMA THAT IS NATHAN

Should be the name of this thread.

Force 136 · Aug 1, 2016

SR Nathan did not graduate with a Degree. He graduated with a Diploma in Social Work.

In those days when LKY had to face Communists on one hand and Malaysian Ultras/Special Branch on the other, he had no choice but to use Nathan. One of LKY's Indian MP was unmasked as a spy for Malaysia Special Branch.

And then there was the CIA who got entangled with LKY after they were caught trying to compromise our Security people.

At one stage, our people even had to use a stud to seduce a CIA female agent.......

With all these Hantu around him, Nathan was a safe bet for LKY.......

scroobal · Aug 1, 2016

Thanks of for the input. People who dealt with him in the civil service and when he left the service and went to SPH struggled with him on the intellectual side. In fact if you look at all the literature on him, there are a lots of praises but not single one mentions or refers to his intelligence. The key SPH board members got fed up and went to see the old man and he agreed to replace him with Lim Chin Beng of SIA. Later it was Lim Kim San that led 14 years of unprecedented growth. They think that he is dedicated but the word smart was never in the picture. By the way he only got a diploma.

Agree on the Laju. The Director ISD also went along as a Hostage - a monumental cock-up. The only ones missing in the hostage line-up was Dick Lee and his cast from Beauty World. There was massive argument between SID and ISD and Simon Tay's father Tay Seow Huah made the decision that would please both of them - so he sent both of them. The other one is still blogging today.

Papsmearer said:
I want to dispel some of your misconceptions about Nathan.

1) He is not a stupid guy. Like all Indians, he is a sneaky forked tongue asshole. But he did put himself thru university (U of Malaya)and got a undergard degree with honours. SO, he had the intelligence and the discipline to pull that off. Every one that served with him say he is intelligent and smart.

2) During WW2, it was not unusual for the Kampetai to use Malays and Indian locals to work for them. This is because they were counting on the natural distrust from these 2 groups against Chinese. And they wanted the chinese controlled and under surveillance. Unlike Old Fart (very unusual to have a chinese working for the Japanese against other chinese) who had some money, Nathan was dead broke and probably needed the money badly from Japanese pay. that does not forgive him for what he did.

3) Today, this clown would never head the SID. He headed the SID because it was new unit being formed and not one knew anything. It was blind leading the blind. Even today, my experience of SID is that they are still a bunch of clowns. Not one of those idiots can tell you what is the military threat to singapore today and where is it coming from. So, in my opinion, it was not a big deal that he was SID first head.

4) He was the protege of Devan Nair from the time they were dealing with the unions and the communists. Later on, when he got posted to MFA, Rajaratnam took him under his wing. because he got these 2 godfathers, and because he was blindly loyal, he got increasing posted to higher levels. his career got hanta kaki for 15 years after Devan Nair got fired from the presidency. Old fart did not trust any apunehs and especially those that were proteges of Devan Nair. His career was revived by Gay Loong after became PeeM because Gay loong knew him from his days at SID when he was BG.

5) The whole Laju incident is really fishy. There is an untold hidden story there. Nathan was made to look like the hero, but actually, the 4 hostages were exchanged for 13 govt hostages, of which nathan was one. Technically, the other 12 should get equal credit. In the first place, u never negotiate with terrorists. He did. And secondly, you don't give the terrorist new 13 hostages for 4 old one. How stupid is that? nathan only agree to go as a hostage after 4 commandoes were disguised as part of the 13 hostages, they were basically his bodyguard. They had the opportunuty to overpower the terrorist after the terrorists surrendered their weapons. Why would the 13 of them get on a plane with the terrorists and fly all the way to Kuwait City and release them there and then fly back to Singapore. Shit, just shoot them dead after they surrendered the weapons. What is the problem? Really a fishy business.

numero uno · Aug 1, 2016

scroobal said:
I am not sure how best to put this out but this one senior civil servant and public figure that I can never figure out. I don't think anyone understood the man except maybe the old man. He never did strike me as someone that was intelligent or smart, yet he headed SID, became a Perm Sec and went on to be diplomat holding key appointments.

Those who knew him better, please chip in.

Here are some anecdotes to describe the man

1) When he was Chairman of SPH, he was invited to give a talk to course participants to the SAF Command and Staff College. It catered for the senior staff of SAF as well some foreign invited officers. He turned up and gave a talk about how newspapers are printed including the night run. Everyone was embarrassed including the foreign participants.The topic was on the role of the press or something similar and they expected something along the lines of challenges, censorship, role of the govt vs the press, strategic and sensitive issues. And he was a Perm Sec.

2) The Board Directors of SPH realised that this man, their Chairman was out of his depth and began to have prior discussions and reached decisions prior to the actual board meetings. We are talking about the likes of Wee Cho Yaw of UOB and Lien Ying Chow of OUB.

3) Despite his past of heading SID, when he was Ambassador to Malaysia, SID operations in Malaysia was compromised which led to a number of operatives been banned from entry to Malaysia. The Malaysian Govt also asked for his removal and he was then reassigned to the Embassy in the US.

4) When he took over from Tommy Koh as Singapore's US Ambassador to the US, the embassy went close to a meltdown as Tommy ran an intellectual and very liberal embassy where staff including drivers and embassy of various nationalities were treated as equals. Nathan ran it as a total bureaucracy. It became a mini MFA. Nathan does not drink and the concept of alcohol was very uncomfortable for and it naturally it became an irritant for others.

5) His son moved from one GLC to another courtesy of the father and then eventually got a job as a lobbyist for American and German interest on "Asean" trade matters. Note the association with the father's roles. Very mysterious figure.

6) In his memoirs he talks about his time with the Japanese Police and how they sent him down to Singapore from Malaysia and accommodated him at Adelphi Hotel while he was in Singapore. He obviously had not clue on the implications of what he wrote.

7) Laju incident is another mystery. Which head of an Intelligence Unit offers himself to a bunch of terrorist? Who then controls the situation. It struck me as poor planning and complete lack of foresight.

8) When he got his daughter the posting that she wanted with the predecessor of ACRA, the daughter's husband also jumped on the bandwagon and joined the Legal Service. Unfortunately people in power were not prepared to do favours for the son-in-law, he left the Legal service shortly thereafter.

Anyone can think anything this famous individual did that merits some recognition.

Well, inside info is that LKY treasures loyalty more than anything else including brains or intel or looks. This prata is loyal to a fault and probably saves the old man life during the Jap occupation. If you read LKY biography is is very clear that the jap place him under suspicion him for interrgation. That prataman was a peon then in the kempetai with LKY in the newspaper dept and prata probably got wind of it(real or imaginary threat about the kempetai looking into LKY files) and forewarned that old man(written in his autobiography about how someone warned him) and he quickly played a very low profile and took leave and avoid arousing suspicion instead of running to malaya to escape and then arouse the jap . The laju is a minor thing played up by the press as if it was a big issue. The terrorist were the japanese red army and lightly armed only and novice . that's why he took up the offer to escort them to a safe haven in exchange for the relase of the hostages. LKY asked him to the guarantor as prataman then still speak japanese and gained their trust. after taht lky gave him all the perks and rewards for his devout loyalty. even in the devan nair incident he stood with lky not DV. that's the inside detials....

Papsmearer · Aug 1, 2016

numero uno said:
Well, inside info is that LKY treasures loyalty more than anything else including brains or intel or looks. This prata is loyal to a fault and probably saves the old man life during the Jap occupation. If you read LKY biography is is very clear that the jap place him under suspicion him for interrgation. That prataman was a peon then in the kempetai with LKY in the newspaper dept and prata probably got wind of it(real or imaginary threat about the kempetai looking into LKY files) and forewarned that old man(written in his autobiography about how someone warned him) and he quickly played a very low profile and took leave and avoid arousing suspicion instead of running to malaya to escape and then arouse the jap . The laju is a minor thing played up by the press as if it was a big issue. The terrorist were the japanese red army and lightly armed only and novice . that's why he took up the offer to escort them to a safe haven in exchange for the relase of the hostages. LKY asked him to the guarantor as prataman then still speak japanese and gained their trust. after taht lky gave him all the perks and rewards for his devout loyalty. even in the devan nair incident he stood with lky not DV. that's the inside detials....

The terrorists had explosives and set some of them off. They also can submachine guns and fired a few shots at people, but missed.
The terrorist surrendered their weapons before they were escorted to a safe haven or else, Prata would not dare to get on the plane with them.

Satyr · Aug 1, 2016

numero uno said:
Well, inside info is that LKY treasures loyalty more than anything else including brains or intel or looks. This prata is loyal to a fault and probably saves the old man life during the Jap occupation. If you read LKY biography is is very clear that the jap place him under suspicion him for interrgation. That prataman was a peon then in the kempetai with LKY in the newspaper dept and prata probably got wind of it(real or imaginary threat about the kempetai looking into LKY files) and forewarned that old man(written in his autobiography about how someone warned him) and he quickly played a very low profile and took leave and avoid arousing suspicion instead of running to malaya to escape and then arouse the jap . The laju is a minor thing played up by the press as if it was a big issue. The terrorist were the japanese red army and lightly armed only and novice . that's why he took up the offer to escort them to a safe haven in exchange for the relase of the hostages. LKY asked him to the guarantor as prataman then still speak japanese and gained their trust. after taht lky gave him all the perks and rewards for his devout loyalty. even in the devan nair incident he stood with lky not DV. that's the inside detials....

Moral of the story: If you don't have smarts, have loyalty. He may not be knowledgeable, but he may be smart enough to know who to hang with.

soikee · Aug 1, 2016

Papsmearer said:
My granduncle was also executed by the Japanese during the Sook Ching killings. One day, the Japanese came to the neighbourhood where they were staying and arrested all the young chinese men. My granduncle was one of them. The last person to see him was my other relatives at the kampetai HQ. After that, he was never seen again. The whole group that got arrested with him were never seen again. I think they were machine gunned at tanah merah beach. The neighbourhgood in those days were very close knit. Brothers, cousins, uncles, etc. all lived in the same neighbourhood. SO, that day, many families lost multiple male members. This kind of fucking assholes like Kuan Yew and Nathan can work for these animals. As far as I am concerned, two atomic bombs were not enough for Japan. 20 would even the score up a little.

Our ancestors' spirits will ensure that this traitor will not have an easy death.

He will surely undergo with a very difficult death just like his Kempeitei comrade.

red amoeba · Aug 1, 2016

I hazard a guess - he was owed probably a debt of life during the Jap occupation.

Don't forget till now it's not quite clear how LKY got a job w the Japanese army during the occupation. You don't think the IJN are daft n take in all sundries given the hatred they have for the Chinese.

This part was never said and recorded. And we can safely say Indians at that time fare better and if he knows Japanese, getting a role is not difficult.

Also bear in mind the nationalism then is to China or India not to Singapore. Chinese swear loyalty to China not Singapore.

Suppose one saved the life of the other ?

mojito · Aug 1, 2016

This question is best answered by chootchiew. Nathan got animal face? What animal does he look like?

CoffeeAhSoh · Aug 1, 2016

Force 136 said:
SR Nathan did not graduate with a Degree. He graduated with a Diploma in Social Work.

If no BA degree then i worry . :biggrin:

CoffeeAhSoh · Aug 1, 2016

WELL-WISHERS: Emeritus Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong (above, speaking to the media) and former cabinet minister S. Dhanabalan were among those who visited Mr S R Nathan at the Singapore General Hospital yesterday. PHOTOS: ISKANDAR ROSSALI - See more at: http://www.tnp.sg/news/singapore-news/well-wishes-pour-s-r-nathan#sthash.Hg0TIdEK.dpuf

shittypore · Aug 1, 2016

Shall all at Sammyboy chip to get him a get well Bouquet of Flowers sent to him. John Tan pls make the arrangement on our behalf since you cls to him. Pay u later.

halsey02 · Aug 1, 2016

OK! OK!....we know the long story, the stream of see ' you for the last time visitors'.....spare us the annoyances....WHEN WILL THE FUNERAL BE? August 3 or August 9?

numero uno · Aug 1, 2016

Papsmearer said:
The terrorists had explosives and set some of them off. They also can submachine guns and fired a few shots at people, but missed.
The terrorist surrendered their weapons before they were escorted to a safe haven or else, Prata would not dare to get on the plane with them.

they wre novice no doubt. JRA are teh most useless left wingers then. they use dynamites and set it off at the oil depot. they fired at the fishermen and missed completely!!! the fishing boats are so slow taht to miss means these are goondus with zero experience with firearms. in fact alot of countries reject them as they are unknown with no real backup, probably attention seekerss. took old man to negotiate with kuwait for them to land there and disappear in the middle east . they were all 20 year olds novices. that why prata dare to go. if they were real hard core i doubt he would dare and the mortality would be higher. A joke given that explosives were set off and shots were fired and no body died or suffer any injuries at all.
just like the SIA hijack in 1980s, the so called "terrorrists" were armed with knives and fork!!!! the commandos stormed and shoot all dead. the mistake of these paki goondus was they kick one of the steward off the plane and he went and tell the commandos that these idiots were armed only with cutlery!!!! real joker . and dthe press brag it so much as if they are dealing with real terrors like plo or baeder meinhf.

Chitchat The Enigma that is Nathan

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (InfP)

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian

Similar threads