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Serious George Soros says he's not interested in making BIG MONEY anymore!

Asterix

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The Brexit crash will make all of you poorer – be warned
George Soros

David Cameron, along with the Treasury, the Bank of England, the International Monetary Fund and others have been attacked by the leave campaign for exaggerating the economic risks of Brexit. This criticism has been widely accepted by the British media and many financial analysts. As a result, British voters are now grossly underestimating the true costs of leaving.

Too many believe that a vote to leave the EU will have no effect on their personal financial position. This is wishful thinking. It would have at least one very clear and immediate effect that will touch every household: the value of the pound would decline precipitously. It would also have an immediate and dramatic impact on financial markets, investment, prices and jobs.

As opinion polls on the referendum result fluctuate, I want to offer a clear set of facts, based on my six decades of experience in financial markets, to help voters understand the very real consequences of a vote to leave the EU.

The Bank of England, the Institute for Fiscal Studies and the IMF have assessed the long-term economic consequences of Brexit. They suggest an income loss of £3,000 to £5,000 annually per household – once the British economy settles down to its new steady-state five years or so after Brexit. But there are some more immediate financial consequences that have hardly been mentioned in the referendum debate.

To start off, sterling is almost certain to fall steeply and quickly if there is a vote to leave– even more so after yesterday’s rebound as markets reacted to the shift in opinion polls towards remain. I would expect this devaluation to be bigger and more disruptive than the 15% devaluation that occurred in September 1992, when I was fortunate enough to make a substantial profit for my hedge fund investors, at the expense of the Bank of England and the British government.

It is reasonable to assume, given the expectations implied by the market pricing at present, that after a Brexit vote the pound would fall by at least 15% and possibly more than 20%, from its present level of $1.46 to below $1.15 (which would be between 25% and 30% below its pre-referendum trading range of $1.50 to $1.60). If sterling fell to this level, then ironically one pound would be worth about one euro – a method of “joining the euro” that nobody in Britain would want.

Brexiters seem to recognise that a sharp devaluation would be almost inevitable after Brexit, but argue that this would be healthy, despite the big losses of purchasing power for British households. In 1992 the devaluation actually proved very helpful to the British economy, and subsequently I was even praised for my role in helping to bring it about.

But I don’t think the 1992 experience would be repeated. That devaluation was healthy because the government was relieved of its obligation to “defend” an overvalued pound with damagingly high interest rates after the breakdown of the exchange rate mechanism. This time, a large devaluation would be much less benign than in 1992, for at least three reasons.

First, the Bank of England would not cut interest rates after a Brexit devaluation (as it did in 1992 and also after the large devaluation of 2008) because interest rates are already at the lowest level compatible with the stability of British banks. That, incidentally, is another reason to worry about Brexit. For if a fall in house prices and loss of jobs causes a recession after Brexit, as is likely, there will be very little that monetary policy can do to stimulate the economy and counteract the consequent loss of demand.

Second, the UK now has a very large current account deficit – much larger, relatively, than in 1992 or 2008. In fact Britain is more dependent than at any time in history on inflows of foreign capital. As the governor of the Bank of England Mark Carney said, Britain “depends on the kindness of strangers”. The devaluations of 1992 and 2008 encouraged greater capital inflows, especially into residential and commercial property, but also into manufacturing investments. But after Brexit, the capital flows would almost certainly move the other way, especially during the two-year period of uncertainty while Britain negotiates its terms of divorce with a region that has always been – and presumably will remain – its biggest trading and investment partner.

Third, a post-Brexit devaluation is unlikely to produce the improvement in manufacturing exports seen after 1992, because trading conditions would be too uncertain for British businesses to undertake new investments, hire more workers or otherwise add to export capacity.

For all these reasons I believe the devaluation this time would be more like the one in 1967, when Harold Wilson famously declared that “the pound in your pocket has not been devalued”, but the British people disagreed with him, quickly noticing that the cost of imports and foreign holidays were rising sharply and that their true living standards were going down. Meanwhile financial speculators, back then called the Gnomes of Zurich, were making large profits at Britain’s expense.

Today, there are speculative forces in the markets much bigger and more powerful. And they will be eager to exploit any miscalculations by the British government or British voters. A vote for Brexit would make some people very rich – but most voters considerably poorer.

I want people to know what the consequences of leaving the EU would be before they cast their votes, rather than after. A vote to leave could see the week end with a Black Friday, and serious consequences for ordinary people.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...xit-crash-pound-living-standards-george-soros
 

frenchbriefs

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this old man is growing soft,is he no longer interested in capitalism?is he becoming communist/socialist now in his later years?is he ready to enter the kingdom of heaven and step thru the eye of a needle?

alot of Pappies are still beholden to their money in their old age.
 
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johnny333

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When you are older you have many other important priorities like your health.

I bet that even LKY started worrying about his health. I heard that he made frequent visits to Australia to prolong longevity e.g. chelation, hormone treatments,....etc
 

Asterix

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I doubt he is not interested in earning money anymore. The headline is just to grab attention! :smile:

Know nuts about currencies, but since whether Brexit or Bremain, the pound is going to be volatile for a while before and after the referendum, perhaps this would be a good time to be holding on to both call and put options on the pound. Why bet the house on an uncertain outcome (Brexit or Bremain), whereas volatility is certain? Since the pound will probably fall more with Brexit then it will rise with Bremain, I suppose Soros is acting against his own self-interest by openly urging Bremain, but he will still find a way to profit from the volatility.

Trading can be addictive and there's no point in being the richest man in the graveyard. It would be good to be able to know when to switch off and when to switch on. Must pay your dues in time and effort (and hopefully only small losses or breakeven) before having the experience to know when to switch on. Just like a [insert profession here] who knows how to check the index and zoom in fast on the relevant [insert the topic here]. :smile:

A Bearish George Soros Is Trading Again
Billionaire investor sees opportunities to profit from various economic and political issues afflicting the world

After a long hiatus, George Soros has returned to trading, lured by opportunities to profit from what he sees as coming economic troubles.

Worried about the outlook for the global economy and concerned that large market shifts may be at hand, the billionaire hedge-fund founder and philanthropist recently directed a series of big, bearish investments, according to people close to the matter.

Soros Fund Management LLC, which manages $30 billion for Mr. Soros and his family, sold stocks and bought gold and shares of gold miners, anticipating weakness in various markets. Investors often view gold as a haven during times of turmoil.

The moves are a significant shift for Mr. Soros, who earned fame with a bet against the British pound in 1992, a trade that led to $1 billion of profits. In recent years, the 85-year-old billionaire has focused on public policy and philanthropy. He is also a large contributor to the super PAC backing presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton and has donated to other groups supporting Democrats.

Mr. Soros has always closely monitored his firm’s investments. In the past, some senior executives bristled at how he sometimes inserted himself into the firm’s operations, usually after the fund suffered losses, according to people familiar with the matter. But in recent years, he hasn’t done much investing of his own. That changed earlier this year when Mr. Soros began spending more time in the office directing trades. He has also been in more frequent contact with the executives, the people said.

In some ways, Mr. Soros is stepping into a void at his firm. Last year, Scott Bessent, who served as Soros’s top investor and has a background in macro investing, or anticipating macroeconomic moves around the globe, left the firm to start his own hedge fund. Soros has invested $2 billion with Mr. Bessent’s firm, Key Square Group.

Later in 2015, Mr. Soros tapped Ted Burdick as his chief investment officer. Mr. Burdick has a background in distressed debt, arbitrage and other types of trading, rather than macro investing, Mr. Soros’s lifelong specialty. That is why Mr. Soros felt comfortable stepping back in, the people said.

Mr. Soros’s recent hands-on approach reflects a gloomier outlook than many others on Wall Street. His worldview darkened over the past six months as economic and political issues in China, Europe and elsewhere have become more intractable, in his view. While the U.S. stock market has inched back toward record levels after troubles early this year and Chinese markets have stabilized, Mr. Soros remains skeptical of the Chinese economy, which is slowing.

The fallout from any unwinding of Chinese investments likely will have global implications, Mr. Soros said in an email.

“China continues to suffer from capital flight and has been depleting its foreign currency reserves while other Asian countries have been accumulating foreign currency,” Mr. Soros said. “China is facing internal conflict within its political leadership, and over the coming year this will complicate its ability to deal with financial issues.”

Mr. Soros worries that new troubles will arise in China partly because he said the nation doesn’t seem willing to embrace a transparent political system that he contends is necessary to enact lasting economic overhauls. Beijing has embarked on overhauls in the past year but has backtracked on some efforts amid turbulent markets.

Some investors are beginning to anticipate rising inflation amid recent wage gains in the U.S., but Mr. Soros said he is more concerned that continued weakness in China will exert deflationary pressure—a damaging spiral of falling wages and prices—on the U.S. and global economies.

Mr. Soros also argues that there remains a good chance the European Union will collapse under the weight of the migration crisis, continuing challenges in Greece and a potential exit by the United Kingdom from the EU.

“If Britain leaves, it could unleash a general exodus, and the disintegration of the European Union will become practically unavoidable,” he said. Still, Mr. Soros said recent strength in the British pound is a sign that a vote to exit the EU is less likely.

“I’m confident that as we get closer to the Brexit vote, the ‘remain’ camp is getting stronger,” Mr. Soros said. “Markets are not always right, but in this case I agree with them.”

Other big investors also have become concerned about markets. Last month, billionaire trader Stanley Druckenmiller warned that “the bull market is exhausting itself” and hedge-fund manager Leon Cooperman said “the bubble is in fixed income,” though he was sanguine on stocks.

Mr. Soros’s bearish investments have had mixed success. His firm bought over 19 million shares of Barrick Gold Corp. in the first quarter, according to securities filings, making it the firm’s largest stockholding at the end of the quarter. That position has gained more than $90 million since the end of the first quarter. Soros Fund Management also bought a million shares of miner Silver Wheaton Corp. in the first quarter, a position that has increased 28% so far in the second quarter.

Meanwhile, gold has climbed 19% this year.

But Mr. Soros also adopted bearish derivative positions that serve as wagers against U.S. stocks. It isn’t clear when those positions were placed and at what levels during the first quarter, but the S&P 500 index has climbed 3% since the beginning of the second period, suggesting Mr. Soros could be facing losses on some of those moves.

Overall, the Soros fund is up a bit this year, in line with most macro hedge funds, according to people close to the matter. The investments by the firm were previously disclosed in filings, but it wasn’t clear how involved Mr. Soros was in the decisions spurring the moves.

The last time Mr. Soros became closely involved in his firm’s trading: 2007, when he became worried about housing and placed bearish wagers over two years that netted more than $1 billion of gains.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-bearish-george-soros-is-trading-again-1465429163
 

Asterix

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Asset
George Soros, the billionaire whose 1992 wager against the pound made hedge fund history, didn’t repeat the bet ahead of sterling’s record tumble on Friday.

Soros was “long” the currency before Britain’s vote to leave the European Union on Friday, and didn’t “speculate against sterling while he was arguing for Britain to remain,” a spokesman said in an e-mailed statement Monday. “Because of his generally bearish outlook on world markets,” Soros did profit from other investments, according to the statement.

In the days before the vote that marked a rupture between the U.K. and the EU, Soros had warned that the pound could slump more than 20 percent against the dollar as voters were grossly underestimating the true cost of Brexit. Sterling plunged 8.1 percent on Friday to its lowest level in more than three decades, and tumbled again on Monday.

“Now the catastrophic scenario that many feared has materialized, making the disintegration of the EU practically irreversible,” Soros wrote in a June 25 essay reflecting on the U.K. vote for Project Syndicate. “The consequences for the real economy will be comparable only to the financial crisis of 2007-2008.”

Soros rose to fame as the money manager who broke the Bank of England in 1992, netting a profit of $1 billion with a wager that the U.K. would be forced to devalue the pound and pull it from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism. Soros said in an opinion piece last week in the U.K.’s Guardian newspaper that he was “fortunate” to make a substantial profit for his hedge-fund investors at the expense of the BOE and the British government.

Investors face months of uncertainty following Friday’s vote. The mechanics and terms of the U.K.’s exit are yet to be determined, and the nation’s political leadership during the negotiations is unclear after Prime Minister David Cameron announced his resignation.

“Britain eventually may or may not be relatively better off than other countries by leaving the EU, but its economy and people stand to suffer significantly in the short to medium term,” Soros wrote in his June 25 essay. Financial markets “are likely to remain in turmoil as the long, complicated process of political and economic divorce from the EU is negotiated,” he said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...g-the-pound-before-brexit-vote-says-spokesman
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I doubt he is not interested in earning money anymore. The headline is just to grab attention! :smile:

Know nuts about currencies, but since whether Brexit or Bremain, the pound is going to be volatile for a while before and after the referendum, perhaps this would be a good time to be holding on to both call and put options on the pound. Why bet the house on an uncertain outcome (Brexit or Bremain), whereas volatility is certain? Since the pound will probably fall more with Brexit then it will rise with Bremain, I suppose Soros is acting against his own self-interest by openly urging Bremain, but he will still find a way to profit from the volatility.

Trading can be addictive and there's no point in being the richest man in the graveyard. It would be good to be able to know when to switch off and when to switch on. Must pay your dues in time and effort (and hopefully only small losses or breakeven) before having the experience to know when to switch on. Just like a [insert profession here] who knows how to check the index and zoom in fast on the relevant [insert the topic here]. :smile:

holding a put and call option,what kind of trade is that?straddle?it should be profitable right assuming the pound goes up if Bremain and down if Brexit.....shit why didnt i think of that.
 

Asterix

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
of course la, everyone also believe in Karma.

I doubt it has anything to do with karma. Soros wants to be remembered not as a speculator but a philosopher and statesman. During 1997 Asian financial crisis, he didn't short the won even though his staff did the research and fed him with the necessary info to justify a big short.
 
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