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Serious CIS/ST and corruption PAP style

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
They are the SAF. They need a standard issue weapon for the army. Its the start of the big NS boom and height of the cold war and the Vietnam war. You are CIS,So, you arrange licensed production of M16S1 from Colt Industries. fair enough. You don't like the price you have to pay for the license, but you set up the factory already and are making it. So far so good. Well, the initial batch of 200,000 rifles are completed and the factory is sitting idle. So, what do you do? You want to continue to make M16 so you can sell them overseas for money. Except that the licensing arrangement does not allow you to do this. But you need the factory to continue to operate or else, you will be laid off, and your staff of cronies and yes men along with you. You are desperate to avoid this. So, what do you do? You then decide that you should buy the rights to the Sterling SAR 80 and build it here with the idle factory. But this thing is a piece of shit. Its is so bad that Sterling gave up on it and was already written it off as lost R & D. They were more then happy and a little puzzled why CIS would want this dud, but money is money. If the suckers from singapore want it, they can have it. So, certain CIS jiak liao bees continue to have a job, expense account and bonus by putting this dud into production. Please note at this point, the SAF did not ask for or want this weapon, but were forced to buy 20,000. But the idiots at CIS thought they could always sell it overseas to countries looking for a cheap 5.56mm weapon. Except, no large sales were forthcoming, because why? ................It was a piece of crap. They ended up selling them in small batches to warlords and embargoes countries and what not. So, again, the problem remains. How to keep the factory active and their jobs and positions intact? Well, it turned out that the SAF had a requirement for a Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW). The GPMG they had was too heavy and was used as an company level support weapon. They needed a weapon that put out high volume of sustained fire and could move with a section or a platoon, and therefore use the same 5.56mm ammo as the rest of the platoon, and not the 7.62mm used for the GPMG. This was not an unusual requirement as other armies had arrived at the same conclusion. The SAF wanted the Belgian FN Minimi. A proven weapon which could hold a 200 round box. Instead, they were told that they should wait while CIS developed its own SAW, the Ultimax 100. The Ultimax was at least 2 years late in entering service. The SAF could have gotten the Minimi they wanted in 1980, but had to wait till 1982 to get the Ultimax and even then, it had a lot of teething problems such as jams in the drum mag, overheated barrels, etc. it wasn't until the late 1980's that the Ultimax was refined into an acceptable SAW, but even then, it had a 100 rd drum mag instead of the Minimi's 200 rd. This already puts it behind the Minimi forever. But the main purpose of the development of the Ultimax was once against keeping the jiak liao bees employed and well fed at the trough. The cost of retooling the factory to make Ultimax 100s, the cost of R & D, the $1 million paid to the designer Jim Sullivan, etc makes the per average cost of the Ultimax just as expensive or more so then the Minimi. Once again, forget about saving the taxpayer money, forget about what the SAF really wants, its more important to keep their jobs and privileges as the first priority. So once again, we have the situation where the production runs of Ultimax 100 have come to a close, and again foreign contracts are not forthcoming, and mostly sales having shown up in 3rd world countries like Zimbabwe, the Yugoslav wars and what not. Now, its the late 1980s. The SAF is interested in replacing the M16S1 it has received under the initial licensing agreement with Colt. So, what does CIS do? make more M16s? that would be the logical answer, right? And here is something else the taxpayers were not told. The AR-15/M16 patents had expired by 1988, when the SAF started asking for replacement for its M16. In other words, anyone and everyone can make and sell the M16 without paying royalties and without paying licensing fees and without threat of legal action. You don't believe me, just look online. The civilian market in the US is full of companies like Bushmaster, Diemaco (canada), FN (Belgium), and even Chinese companies like Norinco, making and selling copies of the M16s. the US army actually ordered a batch made not by Colt but by Fabrique Nationale of Belgium. Guess who had a factory that used to make the M16 in Singapore? But did they start up production again? Of course not. Too simple, too cheap, not enough chiak liao bees to be employed for such a simple endeavour. So, what do to? Well, what would cost the taxpayer the most money, what project can we do that would employ the most amount of chiak liao bees and PAP cronies, and what could they do that would keep them in hog heaven for a long time. Of course the answer is to develop a new weapon for the SAF. And Of course, it has to be something so radically different that the bean counters cannot say, why don't you buy it off the shelf. Never mind that we could have made the M16 without a license, never mind that there was a weapon already developed by the CIS called the SR 88 that was a vast improvement on the SAR 80. By now, you guess its the SAR-21. A rifle that costs 3 times as much to make as a M16, much heavier, and relies on a battery operated sighting system that is shit useless without batteries, and has issues with the location of the selector switch, is much heavier, and has a host of other problems. basically there is nothing that a SAR 21 can do that a M16 with a picatinny rail and a scope cannot. But of course, CIS/ ST has to add to its profit margin, making a M16 they cannot sell it for as much as a SAR-21 and at the same time, they can employ an army of jiak liao bee designers, engineers, retool the factory, etc. Once again, no one is buying it, so the export market is dead. But their main goal of preserving and enhancing their privileges have been met. In the past, Goh Keng Swee, Minister of Defence knew nothing about weapons and let them get away with it. Then BG Lee, whose wife was running CIS also let them get away with it. As you can see from above, lots of deliberate measures not to save money, but spend it. This is the PAP corruption style with no oversight. Ownself take care of ownself, taxpayer can pay for it. Multiply this by the number of unnecessary equipment purchases and the number of unnecessary defence orgs and you see why the budget is $14 billion for defence. Into this, is born Whore Jinx, a product of a CIS system so screwed up, so inefficiency and so full of cronyism that she knows no other way then to introduce this to Temasek. Now multiply what is going on at CIS/ST with other GLCs and you see why this country is so fucked up.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
The issue had to do with education level and engineering competence of the 3 services as they are the customer and not CIS or Singapore Technologies. The educational and engineering background of Air force and Navy far exceeded the Army. The Air Force and Navy chaps put across their specs and argued their case much better. In the end the Air Force got their toys and only allowed maintenance and limited upgrade "chores". The Navy managed to convince on foreign spec but built here on the basis that a first rate scholar was assigned to undertake it. Lim Siong Guan, the first PPS, and subsequently to be Head of Civil Service was assigned to take charge of Navy requirements. In simple terms the better educat pilots and engineers could explain what they were looking for and so did the Navy Commander and their engineers. The Army chaps may have been good in field craft but could not articulate the engineering requirements.

Goh Keng Swee wanted to convert CIS to other non-military use but eventually orders came in for manufacturing of ammunition from foreign countries.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
The issue had to do with education level and engineering competence of the 3 services as they are the customer and not CIS or Singapore Technologies. The educational and engineering background of Air force and Navy far exceeded the Army. The Air Force and Navy chaps put across their specs and argued their case much better. In the end the Air Force got their toys and only allowed maintenance and limited upgrade "chores". The Navy managed to convince on foreign spec but built here on the basis that a first rate scholar was assigned to undertake it. Lim Siong Guan, the first PPS, and subsequently to be Head of Civil Service was assigned to take charge of Navy requirements. In simple terms the better educat pilots and engineers could explain what they were looking for and so did the Navy Commander and their engineers. The Army chaps may have been good in field craft but could not articulate the engineering requirements. Goh Keng Swee wanted to convert CIS to other non-military use but eventually orders came in for manufacturing of ammunition from foreign countries.
I don't know what fucking lancheow shit you are shooting your mouth off about. Army got lower level of engineering competence and education? Fuck your mother cheebye. I got 2 degrees from foreign unis and I was in the Army, so were many similarly qualified officers I served with. The number of SAF scholarship recipients going through the system and coming back with engineering degrees and what not is mind boggling. If you really read my post, you will understand is not about engineering competence. It is about another agenda involving the CIS, the PAP MIWs in it, and the corrupt way they conduct their business. You think the SAF could not argue its case for a continuation of the M16 production and instead were given the piece of shit SAR 80? U are insane.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
The CIS running rogue began prior to Scholars coming in and taking up key appointments. You have to be blind not realise that the Air Force and the Navy got what they wanted and the Army did not and end up being guinea pigs. Old Man created the SAF scholarships for his son, the current PM in 197. By the time these scholars graduated and began taking posts of influence the die had been cast. While the Air Force and Navy had graduate engineers and better qualified people recruited into their ranks before SAF OMS began.

The CIS issue is well known in the Civil Service. It turned out to be a case where the tail was wagging the dog. Everyone thought it was a protected entity of GKS and left it. Winston and Ng Jui Peng did not bother as they were left it the various underlings to fight for their corner. Interestingly the original perception was that the Army was shown favouritism by Choo and NG as they had a whole factory looking after their needs. It tuned out that the factory was dictating terms to the Army.

When DSO came on and Sheng Li converted to ST, there were numerous attempts to pull the Air Force and Navy into line but they refused. Occasionally some tidbits would be thrown to ST to keep them happy. When it came to procuring trips, both Air Force and Navy demanded to be in the party. For some reason the Army struggled. At to the journey towards Bionix, only Patrick Choy can answer why he believed in ST. You should know what happened when he retired.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
The CIS running rogue began prior to Scholars coming in and taking up key appointments. You have to be blind not realise that the Air Force and the Navy got what they wanted and the Army did not and end up being guinea pigs. Old Man created the SAF scholarships for his son, the current PM in 197. By the time these scholars graduated and began taking posts of influence the die had been cast. While the Air Force and Navy had graduate engineers and better qualified people recruited into their ranks before SAF OMS began. The CIS issue is well known in the Civil Service. It turned out to be a case where the tail was wagging the dog. Everyone thought it was a protected entity of GKS and left it. Winston and Ng Jui Peng did not bother as they were left it the various underlings to fight for their corner. Interestingly the original perception was that the Army was shown favouritism by Choo and NG as they had a whole factory looking after their needs. It tuned out that the factory was dictating terms to the Army. When DSO came on and Sheng Li converted to ST, there were numerous attempts to pull the Air Force and Navy into line but they refused. Occasionally some tidbits would be thrown to ST to keep them happy. When it came to procuring trips, both Air Force and Navy demanded to be in the party. For some reason the Army struggled. At to the journey towards Bionix, only Patrick Choy can answer why he believed in ST. You should know what happened when he retired.
Once again, you are way off target. The Air Force never got their way the way you say it did. Not back then and not now. Do you think that RSAF specifically requested to go to Davis Monthan boneyard and buy old derelict rusting A-4 Skyhawks because they love the plane so much and that was really what they wanted? The PAP was trying to build up the aviation sector in Singapore and needed practice and experience in modifying and maintaining airframes such as the Skyhawk. that was the hidden agenda. If the govt bought what the RSAF wanted, that would be an available off the shelf aircraft, there would have been no opportunity for the LASS and other aerospace companies to do the refurbishment work that they do today. Today's aerospace sector and the work they do, such as freighter conversions, are all as a result of the experience gained from refurbishing and upgrading these A-4s. And it was bought on the blood of the dead pilots. The RSAF lost countless pilots flying those things. The Air Force, like the Army was told to fly what was bought for them. Even the F-5E was so pathetic with short legs and such an embarrassment to the Air Force because SIA actually had a plane that could fly faster then their fastest F-5E at that time. You think the Air Force wanted that plane? Or did you think they were told to fly it because it was cheap to buy and operate? Fast forward to today, and you have DSTA heavily involved in the selection of the next Gen fighter for the RSAF. Are you fucking kidding me? Do you think an air force like the RSAF is not capable of selecting its own future aircraft? I guess it must be so because DSTA is telling them what is good for them. Once again, the tail is wagging the dog. As for the Navy, it was the neglected arm for decades and only in the last 15 years or so, has it really got some serious funding. And I don't even want to get started with the worthless shit they are force to buy and operate.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
That's why MINDEF spending is hush-hush and AG cannot audit. Now, it makes sense.
That's right. In the US military, which is much more transparent, their auditor general's GAO audits the military budget closely. that is why they can dig up such thing as the Air Force paying $20,000 for a toilet seat for one of their transport planes. For all we know, the RSAF might be paying $100,000 for a toilet seat, but we will never find out due to the top secret nature of the budget.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
the rsn was indeed embarassingly underwhelming for decades with their largest ship being an lst. after the falklands war, was hoping mindef would invest in subs as the sub was the true force multiplier, terror of the ocean, and game changer in that war. a few british subs held back the entire argent navy. it took several decades later before mindef saw the light. nonetheless in that do nothing span the rsn improvement over one lousy lst was a few frigging frigates. everytime then when i met rsn officers i felt so so sorry for them.
 

Hans168

Alfrescian
Loyal
the rsn was indeed embarassingly underwhelming for decades with their largest ship being an lst. after the falklands war, was hoping mindef would invest in subs as the sub was the true force multiplier, terror of the ocean, and game changer in that war. a few british subs held back the entire argent navy. it took several decades later before mindef saw the light. nonetheless in that do nothing span the rsn improvement over one lousy lst was a few frigging frigates. everytime then when i met rsn officers i felt so so sorry for them.

din RSN know that Hitler's U boats held back the supply lines from UK & USA????????? Datz the Oyama fist which killed the bull.........
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
din RSN know that Hitler's U boats held back the supply lines from UK & USA????????? Datz the Oyama fist which killed the bull.........

ex navy guy who is now in valley is still yaya papaya about his duties on a patrol craft as though he's the reincarnation of jfk on his pt 109. all that old cohort can talk about are lst and patrol boats. not even a frigging frigate. truly feel sorry for them.
 

HTOLAS

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Sorry, but are you referring to the Concorde (max 2179kmh) when you mentioned an SIA aircraft being faster than the F5E (max 1700kmh)? If so, you might want to add that the Concorde was an exceptional aircraft and many warplanes of that generation were slower than the Concorde. Also, the Concorde was only half an SIA aircraft, and made very few flights to Singapore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-5

Even the F-5E was so pathetic with short legs and such an embarrassment to the Air Force because SIA actually had a plane that could fly faster then their fastest F-5E at that time. You think the Air Force wanted that plane? Or did you think they were told to fly it because it was cheap to buy and operate?
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Sorry, but are you referring to the Concorde (max 2179kmh) when you mentioned an SIA aircraft being faster than the F5E (max 1700kmh)? If so, you might want to add that the Concorde was an exceptional aircraft and many warplanes of that generation were slower than the Concorde. Also, the Concorde was only half an SIA aircraft, and made very few flights to Singapore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-5
The Concorde was a Mach 2 passenger jet. Most fighters at that time, eg F-4, Mig- 21, Mirage, etc are also Mach 2 fighters or slightly higher. The F-5E was a Mach 1.6 fighter. Much slower then those I describe. Hence, contemporary fighters of that age were as fast as the Concorde if not faster. The F-5E was lacking in that regard.
 

HTOLAS

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
For obvious reasons, buying the Mig 21 was out of the question. I'm not sure why the Mirage was not chosen. As for the F4 Phantom, it was undoubtedly fast but lost out on manoeuvribility and high cost of maintenance.

Also, there were plans at the time to develop the F5 platform into the F20 Tigershark, a much more advanced aircraft that was cost effective. That did not come to pass but that flexibility must have been a factor for the purchase of the F5.

The Concorde was a Mach 2 passenger jet. Most fighters at that time, eg F-4, Mig- 21, Mirage, etc are also Mach 2 fighters or slightly higher. The F-5E was a Mach 1.6 fighter. Much slower then those I describe. Hence, contemporary fighters of that age were as fast as the Concorde if not faster. The F-5E was lacking in that regard.
 
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