Chitchat Chen challenges Low for WP's Leadership - A surprise?

Well it certainly was a surprise to me. And that was not the only surprise! I was also surprised by the amount of votes that Chen got or Low received. I understand that the majority of cadres were stunned when someone nominated Chen for SG. Any way Low got approximately 45% for those who are entitled to votes which is about 130 cadres. Approximately 24 either abstained or did not turn up or too shocked. Chen got about 35% of the eligible votes. Does not surround encouraging.

My understand is that Sylvia, Pritam and Faisal did well in the polls but not Chen. Interesting that Pritam got the highest votes to enter CEC followed by Chen.

It does say that WP is more a democratic party than the PAP. The votes received by the top twelve in the PAP are not even revealed to the 6,000cadres. It also known that the top twelve are spelled out as the desired choice and sent out to super cadres who then use the cell formation to influence those "subordinate" cadres below them.

Chen's 45 votes to Low's 61 votes is not too lame. Chen now can say that he is not just a smiling face, which he seems to smile all the time.

The person who nominated Chen and the people who voted for Chen are obviously not happy with Low's leadership and performance in the past GE 2015 elections.

Will this cause the party to split? Will it cause some people to cross over to join Lim Tean or CSJ? Quite unlikely to cross over to SDP as CSJ acts like the supreme leader.

Notice now that Chen is absent when Low, Pritam and Slyvia speaks to the press.

Will know if there is a split for sure in the next GE to see if Low and Chen will still be fielded in Aljunied together again.

I think the closeness of the past Managing Agent to Low and the fact that he was overcharging them could be the primary issue. I cannot think of anything else as Low is politically astute and the party success is due to him. Chen is also perceived to be performing below what was expected.

Your point about Chen is absent when the other 3 speaks is important as well as the point about being fielded.

scroobal said:

I think the closeness of the past Managing Agent to Low and the fact that he was overcharging them could be the primary issue. I cannot think of anything else as Low is politically astute and the party success is due to him. Chen is also perceived to be performing below what was expected.

Your point about Chen is absent when the other 3 speaks is important as well as the point about being fielded.

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Democracy is good but not in Singapore when Shit Times will try to exploit and manipulate the news to make WP look like it has a problem. The Chinese gangster-run news paper is even more rampant with its negative vocabulary when it comes to attacking opposition. The big prints, red headings and bold words with unflattering opposition photos are the game that SPH chinese newspaper enjoy playing. Unlike Shit Times, nobody knows who are the reporters or people running the show inside their Chinese department news.

scroobal said:

Well it certainly was a surprise to me. And that was not the only surprise! I was also surprised by the amount of votes that Chen got or Low received. I understand that the majority of cadres were stunned when someone nominated Chen for SG. Any way Low got approximately 45% for those who are entitled to votes which is about 130 cadres. Approximately 24 either abstained or did not turn up or too shocked. Chen got about 35% of the eligible votes. Does not surround encouraging.

My understand is that Sylvia, Pritam and Faisal did well in the polls but not Chen. Interesting that Pritam got the highest votes to enter CEC followed by Chen.

It does say that WP is more a democratic party than the PAP. The votes received by the top twelve in the PAP are not even revealed to the 6,000cadres. It also known that the top twelve are spelled out as the desired choice and sent out to super cadres who then use the cell formation to influence those "subordinate" cadres below them.

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Same here bro, caught by surprise. My thoughts:

1. All parties whether PAP or opposition go through same issue. But I always assume WP will be different under LTK. It is not different afterall. Remember LTK and JBJ have a difference too and tussle and JBJ was hoisted out. So my original thought is correct - all parties will have tussles no matter what.

2. Coming from CSM is a big surprise. To get 45 votes simply means he has been working in the background for a while to gather his base. Also announced is LTK getting near 30 new cadres, I supposed it now means he must have got hold of the news that a challenge is forthcoming and it is likely this new group of cadres save his skin.

3. CSM showed his hand unfortunately and it was not wise at all. He is likely not to last long in WP. All leadership tussles can have only 1 winner and the rest with their supporters got to leave eventually. The stakes are too high for both sides to exist together. Unless the party itself has tremendous base like in other countries or a culture of democracy, then both factions will stay to fight another day. The cadre system here is to encourage stability in leadership and not for democracy.

3. Democracy in party does not lead to a stable system and is not necessary good. Look at Chiam and PAP etc. When you have a bunch of goons to join your system or masses infiltrated with different ideology, then you find problems eventually.

4. What makes CSM to show his hand? I guess he must have some level of confidence to attempt or he must have figured out he goes all out to fight to cause a dent to LTK's reputation rather finally getting ousted which might be the next step.

5. It is no rocket science that anyone or most folks associated with CSM will not likely be in CEC. Notice He Ting Rui is not in CEC either not in the list for election or just not voted into the CEC? We have no clue who are those standing for election.

6. There will always be a group that are "neutral" which mean they are allied to both factions. Again, Pritam and Faisal fall into this category. Sylvia is in LTK's faction. LTK and Sylvia are the duo in charge for quite some time.

7. What is remarkable how quiet WP has been and only for us to be shocked over a fight on LTK's position. As of now, I can only say LTK is widely seen as the capable leader well supported by masses and it is not wise to remove him. The fact that a significant number of cadres support CSM show that all is not well in the party and they are willing to go against this known view.

The Chinese press has been beholden to the PAP and does all the dirty work for he PAP since legislation in the form of Newspaper and Printing Presses Act was introduced. It has been an arm of the PAP. Thats the reason why their editor never saw a day in jail for killing someone on the roads while on the phone while every other person ended up in jail even where no phones were used.

By the way, the reason the law was drafted was because Old Man was out to get George Lee who owned Nanyang Siang Pau. The arrest in 1971 was farcical as they detained the wrong son as ISD mistook the second son who cannot write or read Chinese and who was caretaker for his brother who was away on long leave in Europe. It took them 2 years to arrest the right son. True comedy of errors. Some should ask Yoong Siew Wah to write an article as he was head of ISD for both arrest.

myfoot123 said:

Democracy is good but not in Singapore when Shit Times will try to exploit and manipulate the news to make WP look like it has a problem. The Chinese gangster-run news paper is even more rampant with its negative vocabulary when it comes to attacking opposition. The big prints, red headings and bold words with unflattering opposition photos are the game that SPH chinese newspaper enjoy playing. Unlike Shit Times, nobody knows who are the reporters or people running the show inside their Chinese department news.

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I was very critical of Chen when he was first mentioned in the press as a likely candidate for WP. I noted that he did not covert to Singapore citizenship despite fulling his NS obligations as a 2nd generation PR but did so when it was time for the Rhodes Scholarship which citizens of Taiwan are not eligible for. It struck me as opportunism.

There is also the possibility that his back was to the wall after his parliamentary performances and finally the 2015 GE results and was probably on the way out. Might be a rearguard action to hang on and not necessarily to win but to show his support from the cadres. The fact that the cadres gave him the second highest number of votes for a CEC is quite interesting.

Chen is a full time MP so he does have more time doing Party work for his and the party's interest. So I guess he must be putting a lot of effort cultivating the cadres. I wondered why he did not perform as well in the polls as mentioned on a number of times including by the PM.

RandomNexus said:

Same here bro, caught by surprise. My thoughts:

1. All parties whether PAP or opposition go through same issue. But I always assume WP will be different under LTK. It is not different afterall. Remember LTK and JBJ have a difference too and tussle and JBJ was hoisted out. So my original thought is correct - all parties will have tussles no matter what.

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scroobal said:

I think the closeness of the past Managing Agent to Low and the fact that he was overcharging them could be the primary issue. I cannot think of anything else as Low is politically astute and the party success is due to him. Chen is also perceived to be performing below what was expected.

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What overcharging? If you can find another party that is willing to do the job, then there is a comparison. The fact is that there was none.
This is how you subtly attack the Opposition!

Your point about Chen is absent when the other 3 speaks is important as well as the point about being fielded.

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Maybe he just need to be away ...no big deal.

did we see the WP under LTK gone anywhere in the past 5 y?
or how would the WP go in the next 5 y under LTK again?
regardless of who the leader maybe.... LTK, CSM, SL??? .... the WP is 1 BIG FLOP & DISAPPOINTMENT !!

rotiprata said:

did we see the WP under LTK gone anywhere in the past 5 y?
or how would the WP go in the next 5 y under LTK again?
regardless of who the leader maybe.... LTK, CSM, SL??? .... the WP is 1 BIG FLOP & DISAPPOINTMENT !!

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1st thing 1st as a Head of WP. You must behave without shame , must be quick witted on the foot, slimy so that you are not caught by the vile PAP.

As for being thick skin, you must be able to to withstand the head on attack by the vile PAP.

rotiprata said:

did we see the WP under LTK gone anywhere in the past 5 y?
or how would the WP go in the next 5 y under LTK again?
regardless of who the leader maybe.... LTK, CSM, SL??? .... the WP is 1 BIG FLOP & DISAPPOINTMENT !!

Click to expand...

I would give WP the benefit of a doubt. It is a quiet party but Pap media dominates everything. Pap will say wp is filled with aliens n singkies will believe. If wp won more seats in the last erection n they keep quiet..i will throw the book at them...but with only 6 elected Mps...how much noise can they make? N all their time is used to deal with town council issues...since when do MPs deal with town councils? The MP is not an estate manager..but pap makes it out to be n singkies fall for it hook line n sinker... So the ultimate blame falls on singkies..they r the ones tat put pap in power...

WP without Low and in particular his political skills would be at a disadvantage. He remains the anchor and the beacon for the party. He however unlike Chiam developed a second and promising layer of great candidates to the leadership pool. Sylvia is outstanding and so are a number of others. So there is continuity.

The PAP, the Govt, and the state controlled media have downplayed their contributions as they did with Chiam. They knew that many people are gullible and follow the press. Both WP and Chiam have been labelled unfairly as the pubic see very little of what goes on. You can see the venom in Parliament when LHL and his lot took on the WP. The debate that PAP lost on the White Paper which they was totally unprepared for and in which Low and his team made mincemeat of the PAP. And he did one better, he asked for the votes to be counted and it was telling. This is the debate where PAP MP Inderjit Singh left the chambers when the bell rang for the vote.

When Admiralty CCC Chairman and PAP prolumpar signed his own expenses and was caught by Auditor General, he quietly resigned and nothing was explained. I understand that he should have been charged in court and that he was having financial problems. The details were not released. When Aljunied Town Council asked Managing Agents to submit expressions of interest, no local firm associated with Town Council work showed any interest. Read it as boycott. Their software was also stolen by ex PAP MPs which the residents paid for. Its rather disgraceful.

rotiprata said:

did we see the WP under LTK gone anywhere in the past 5 y?
or how would the WP go in the next 5 y under LTK again?
regardless of who the leader maybe.... LTK, CSM, SL??? .... the WP is 1 BIG FLOP & DISAPPOINTMENT !!

Click to expand...

scroobal said:

I was very critical of Chen when he was first mentioned in the press as a likely candidate for WP. I noted that he did not covert to Singapore citizenship despite fulling his NS obligations as a 2nd generation PR but did so when it was time for the Rhodes Scholarship which citizens of Taiwan are not eligible for. It struck me as opportunism.
.

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I don't think it is fair to be critical of Chen. If he is an opportunist, he would have joined a sure-win PAP party instead of WP. 70% sinkies cannot live up to his name regardless if Chen performed well or not as an opposition member. Chen who has the opportunity and chance in parliament, unlike many opposition members, should be vocal and confrontational, the like of Silvia, Low, Chiam and Dr Chee. However, he seems rather low profile and played safe like any other PAP back benchers. Than again, it is hard on him if he has the personality of Malaysia ex-PM (Abdullah Ahmad Badawi) who stepped down shortly after becoming a PM. In politics, you need to have a little gene of a gangster vocalist fighter, which explains why Najib and Mathir served quite long. Unfortunately, our PM LHL is no fighter. He is wearing the shadow of his father to scare the team but I doubt he has the same respect that his father gained. I fear, this country is no longer run by him, but several corrupted hidden hands doing the work to run this country (at the expenses of our tax and people)...and LHL just let it be in order to hold on to his position.

Those were my initial reservations and then I saw how he began taking buses, mingling and having his meals in hawker centre did change my perception some what. However his parliamentary performance was more philosophy than the heavy lifting done by his colleagues. I have seen the Hansard in the early days. Maybe he has a different approach. This challenge however has raised question marks. I am not now sure what the situation will be if Low or his side had not brought in the additional cadres assuming that it was indeed Low's initiative that brought them in and if it was for this purpose. I think we would have to wait and see.

I don't think Singaporeans will accept Low's removal as it is clearly evident over the last 22 years over Chiam.

myfoot123 said:

I don't think it is fair to be critical of Chen. If he is an opportunist, he would have joined a sure-win PAP party instead of WP. 70% sinkies cannot live up to his name regardless if Chen performed well or not as an opposition member. Chen who has the opportunity and chance in parliament, unlike many opposition members, should be vocal and confrontational, the like of Silvia, Low, Chiam and Dr Chee. However, he seems rather low profile and played safe like any other PAP back benchers. Than again, it is hard on him if he has the personality of Malaysia ex-PM (Abdullah Ahmad Badawi) who stepped down shortly after becoming a PM. In politics, you need to have a little gene of a gangster vocalist fighter, which explains why Najib and Mathir served quite long. Unfortunately, our PM LHL is no fighter. He is wearing the shadow of his father to scare the team but I doubt he has the same respect that his father gained. I fear, this country is no longer run by him, but several corrupted hidden hands doing the work to run this country (at the expenses of our tax and people)...and LHL just let it be in order to hold on to his position.

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fanta said:

Chen's 45 votes to Low's 61 votes is not too lame. Chen now can say that he is not just a smiling face, which he seems to smile all the time.

The person who nominated Chen and the people who voted for Chen are obviously not happy with Low's leadership and performance in the past GE 2015 elections.

Will this cause the party to split? Will it cause some people to cross over to join Lim Tean or CSJ? Quite unlikely to cross over to SDP as CSJ acts like the supreme leader.

Notice now that Chen is absent when Low, Pritam and Slyvia speaks to the press.

Will know if there is a split for sure in the next GE to see if Low and Chen will still be fielded in Aljunied together again.

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wayang lah
gotta to rotten fishbait to papigs to confuse them..........

The_Hypocrite said:

I would give WP the benefit of a doubt. It is a quiet party but Pap media dominates everything. Pap will say wp is filled with aliens n singkies will believe. If wp won more seats in the last erection n they keep quiet..i will throw the book at them...but with only 6 elected Mps...how much noise can they make? N all their time is used to deal with town council issues...since when do MPs deal with town councils? The MP is not an estate manager..but pap makes it out to be n singkies fall for it hook line n sinker... So the ultimate blame falls on singkies..they r the ones tat put pap in power...

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WDR sir!...back to history; when JBJ was the WP sole flag bearer in parliament; he was giving the white shirts-white pants sleepless night after night...till the old man and the lau goat had to bankrupt him in order to silence and fix him up. WP now has 6 + 1 in parliament !!!!!...and not even equal 1/2 of JBJ....really SMH!

scroobal said:

Those were my initial reservations and then I saw how he began taking buses, mingling and having his meals in hawker centre did change my perception some what. However his parliamentary performance was more philosophy than the heavy lifting done by his colleagues. I have seen the Hansard in the early days. Maybe he has a different approach. This challenge however has raised question marks. I am not now sure what the situation will be if Low or his side had not brought in the additional cadres assuming that it was indeed Low's initiative that brought them in and if it was for this purpose. I think we would have to wait and see.

I don't think Singaporeans will accept Low's removal as it is clearly evident over the last 22 years over Chiam.

Click to expand...

The part about Chen being philosophical in parliament is true and won't work in an overly philosophical PAP parliament. PAP has gained upper hand in philosophy and pscyhology motherhood years after years. There is no need for Chen to follow suit. This is the reason why Chen posed no threat to PAP and was being laughed by PAP for not being "robust" in parliament. The reason why he gain extra member's votes was because some people like a soft-hearted leader, which won't work in a heavy handed political landscape such as Singapore.

Low should not fall. At least he is highly respected in Hougang SMC for decades. His departure could spell the end of Hougang and mark a complete sunset for opposition parties not just WP, as a whole. Simply, Hougang dissappearance will be a complete disaster in Singapore politics and to Singaporeans wishing to keep a check on PAP. PAP will split Hougang into 4 pieces namely AMK GRC, Aljunied GRC, Bedok GRC and Pungol GRC. Thus, Low departure will posed threat within his own party and also a negative repercussion to all opposition parties in Singapore. I hope Low can bring in more strong and highly qualifiied candidates with guts to speak out like Silvia Lim. Chen needs to show that he is extra-ordinary to bring down PAP gang with his expertise and knowledge.

Does seems like csm is more of a sparring partner than serious contender. At just 3 years younger than Ltk, csm is too old to succeed Ltk.

I am surprised that CSM could garner a challenge to LTK. Frankly I am disappointed with the man. With his corporate background in international finance etc. he would have done impactful damage to the PAP on the budget, CPF, Temasek or GIC. Sadly none of that came about. He simply pontificated from the lectern. Parliamentary debates require robust engagement with sharp cut and thrust of wordplay. He comes across as a good backroom boy than a frontline warrior.

His cadres could do him a favour to give him some feedback if they hadnt already done so.

I went thru WP's website on speeches by various WP MPs and NCMPs for the 13th Parliament. Everyone is there except for one person, guess who? Something is definitely going on.